In article ,
"DogDiesel" wrote:

"Baz" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote in
:


"Nad R" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote:
Hello,
I've ordered a soil test kit and a Stirrup hoe. I bought a rake,
I've
yet
to setup my compost bin.

I'm trying to figure whats better for turning soil about a foot
down.
The top 6 inches or so have been tilled . Underneath is hard packed.
Should I get a digging fork , broadfork, or a shovel. I don't want
to break
the tool. I saw narrow long shovels in Home Depot today.

Thanks Diesel.

Pointy Shovel for turning soil a foot deep.
Transfer Shovel for moving soil or finished compost.
Garden rake with a one side that is flat for leveling soil.
Six or more prong Manure forks are best for turning a compost pile.
Broad fork is a luxury item if you have lots of soil to turn that is
already loose.
A "half moon" edging tool is a nice tool for creating a nice sharp
looking boarder.

As for breaking tools I find wood is worse. I prefer fiberglass or
all steel, cheap steel will bend and wood breaks to easy.

Now if you have money to burn a John Deer tractor or a Bobcat....
Sweet !

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)


I appreciate the reply. A good Ole shovel is still the way. I saw two
good ones at Home Depot. The broad forks look cool . With two
handles, but I wasn't sure it would break or not.





I bought a Wilkinsons spade a few years ago when I started gardening.
It has a tubular metal shaft and have used it like a crowbar to lift
large roots from trees I have felled and it is as good as new. I have put
all my weight into it, bounced on it. Still as new.
If you buy a spade like this, make sure it is all one piece and not
joined with rivets if it is going to take the work I describe.
A fork is different, as you know, because it does not matter how strong
the shaft is, the tines will bend with too much pressure.

Baz





It looks like im going to be shoveling dirt. I want to go a foot down and
turn it over. Mix in my straw and some peat and sand.

Turning soil once, when you first prepare a garden bed, is a good idea
(not needed but it will speed up development of the garden soil).
Subsequent turning undoes the work of your earthworms and mycorrhiza.
What it does is aerate the soil, which accelerates the decomposition of
the soils organic content, which releases nutrients to feed your plants,
but leads to loss of organic matter in your soil, and possibly consuming
the soils nitrogen, leaving none for your plants. It's much easier to
work with nature using no-till approaches such as lasagna gardening, or
sheet mulching.
--
- Billy
³When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.²
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html
20111812130964689.html

Billy wrote in
:

It looks like im going to be shoveling dirt. I want to go a foot down
and turn it over. Mix in my straw and some peat and sand.

Turning soil once, when you first prepare a garden bed, is a good idea
(not needed but it will speed up development of the garden soil).
Subsequent turning undoes the work of your earthworms and mycorrhiza.
What it does is aerate the soil, which accelerates the decomposition
of the soils organic content, which releases nutrients to feed your
plants, but leads to loss of organic matter in your soil, and possibly
consuming the soils nitrogen, leaving none for your plants. It's much
easier to work with nature using no-till approaches such as lasagna
gardening, or sheet mulching.

Can you explain a bit more of this scientific research which has occupied
some vacant cells in the vast extremities within your active, if not
overactive organ we laughingly call a brain?
The OP asked for advice, not theory and some spooky sounding crap from some
weirdo.
If it is even remotely, remotely even possible what you have driveled,
would you not think that the commercial growers might have listened?

Please don't try to fill peoples heads with this kind of crap.

As I asked earlier, please give a bit more of an explaination, if you can
invent some more bullshit, er sorry, scientific research results.

Baz

Baz wrote:
Billy wrote in
:

It looks like im going to be shoveling dirt. I want to go a foot down
and turn it over. Mix in my straw and some peat and sand.

Turning soil once, when you first prepare a garden bed, is a good idea
(not needed but it will speed up development of the garden soil).
Subsequent turning undoes the work of your earthworms and mycorrhiza.
What it does is aerate the soil, which accelerates the decomposition
of the soils organic content, which releases nutrients to feed your
plants, but leads to loss of organic matter in your soil, and possibly
consuming the soils nitrogen, leaving none for your plants. It's much
easier to work with nature using no-till approaches such as lasagna
gardening, or sheet mulching.

Can you explain a bit more of this scientific research which has occupied
some vacant cells in the vast extremities within your active, if not
overactive organ we laughingly call a brain?
The OP asked for advice, not theory and some spooky sounding crap from some
weirdo.
If it is even remotely, remotely even possible what you have driveled,
would you not think that the commercial growers might have listened?

Please don't try to fill peoples heads with this kind of crap.

As I asked earlier, please give a bit more of an explaination, if you can
invent some more bullshit, er sorry, scientific research results.

Baz

it is not crap. The information Billy provided is sound. It is on the
scientific side. Most here are scientist, including myself. I tend to use
the principle called KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid, when dealing with those I
do not know. On the usenet there are many different styles of explaining
things. Some prefer the simple, others prefer the complex phrasing. On
usenet take what you want and ignore the rest.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"DogDiesel" wrote:

"Baz" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote in
:


"Nad R" wrote in message
...
"DogDiesel" wrote:
Hello,
I've ordered a soil test kit and a Stirrup hoe. I bought a rake,
I've
yet
to setup my compost bin.

I'm trying to figure whats better for turning soil about a foot
down.
The top 6 inches or so have been tilled . Underneath is hard packed.
Should I get a digging fork , broadfork, or a shovel. I don't want
to break
the tool. I saw narrow long shovels in Home Depot today.

Thanks Diesel.

Pointy Shovel for turning soil a foot deep.
Transfer Shovel for moving soil or finished compost.
Garden rake with a one side that is flat for leveling soil.
Six or more prong Manure forks are best for turning a compost pile.
Broad fork is a luxury item if you have lots of soil to turn that is
already loose.
A "half moon" edging tool is a nice tool for creating a nice sharp
looking boarder.

As for breaking tools I find wood is worse. I prefer fiberglass or
all steel, cheap steel will bend and wood breaks to easy.

Now if you have money to burn a John Deer tractor or a Bobcat....
Sweet !

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)


I appreciate the reply. A good Ole shovel is still the way. I saw two
good ones at Home Depot. The broad forks look cool . With two
handles, but I wasn't sure it would break or not.





I bought a Wilkinsons spade a few years ago when I started gardening.
It has a tubular metal shaft and have used it like a crowbar to lift
large roots from trees I have felled and it is as good as new. I have
put
all my weight into it, bounced on it. Still as new.
If you buy a spade like this, make sure it is all one piece and not
joined with rivets if it is going to take the work I describe.
A fork is different, as you know, because it does not matter how strong
the shaft is, the tines will bend with too much pressure.

Baz





It looks like im going to be shoveling dirt. I want to go a foot down and
turn it over. Mix in my straw and some peat and sand.

Turning soil once, when you first prepare a garden bed, is a good idea
(not needed but it will speed up development of the garden soil).
Subsequent turning undoes the work of your earthworms and mycorrhiza.
What it does is aerate the soil, which accelerates the decomposition of
the soils organic content, which releases nutrients to feed your plants,
but leads to loss of organic matter in your soil, and possibly consuming
the soils nitrogen, leaving none for your plants. It's much easier to
work with nature using no-till approaches such as lasagna gardening, or
sheet mulching.
--



Yea , I know, I want to get it once and get it over with. Its hard packed,
When i planted carrots . my carrots turned up .

In article ,
"DogDiesel" wrote:
(whack)

Turning soil once, when you first prepare a garden bed, is a good idea
(not needed but it will speed up development of the garden soil).
Subsequent turning undoes the work of your earthworms and mycorrhiza.
What it does is aerate the soil, which accelerates the decomposition of
the soils organic content, which releases nutrients to feed your plants,
but leads to loss of organic matter in your soil, and possibly consuming
the soils nitrogen, leaving none for your plants. It's much easier to
work with nature using no-till approaches such as lasagna gardening, or
sheet mulching.
--



Yea , I know, I want to get it once and get it over with. Its hard packed,
When i planted carrots . my carrots turned up .

Try planting rye, or buckwheat as early as you can, and lasagna garden
around mid - April to May. Should be ready to plant May or mid-May
(YMMV).
--
- Billy
³When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.²
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html