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vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
http://www.garden-counselor-lawn-car...ed-killer.html
Damn things see to enjoy being sprayed. What am I doing wrong? I am using the 5% stuff. Can't find the 20% stuff |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 3/25/2016 9:05 PM, T wrote:
http://www.garden-counselor-lawn-car...ed-killer.html Damn things see to enjoy being sprayed. What am I doing wrong? I am using the 5% stuff. Can't find the 20% stuff I have only found the 20% on line, Amazon has it, Walmart has a version that is 1% higher, don't know how it works. Seems that one gallon of 20% sells for about US$25 wherever you get it. Generally called cleaning vinegar from what I see. |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
T wrote:
http://www.garden-counselor-lawn-car...ed-killer.html Damn things see to enjoy being sprayed. What am I doing wrong? I am using the 5% stuff. Can't find the 20% stuff dunno, some plants have a waxy layer on them and so such approaches do not work well. smother it instead. cardboard is easy to find and put down. eventually breaks down into worm food. use the plainest kinds you can get (least ink on them). a few layers overlapped at the seams will do in about any weed and if they don't work the first time the second round usually will. songbird |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 3/25/2016 10:05 PM, T wrote:
http://www.garden-counselor-lawn-car...ed-killer.html Damn things see to enjoy being sprayed. What am I doing wrong? I am using the 5% stuff. Can't find the 20% stuff I see you can even buy pure acid available on line: http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php...hkhgod d4MO1Q We all know that you can drink a bit of vinegar but the pure acid would put you in the hospital. |
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There are 3 vinegars you should use. You can check here for more information: http://The field '1bb8feffed6e2f...ot recognised. |
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vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 04/15/2016 04:15 AM, Wolf Phan wrote:
'T[_4_ Wrote: ;1018930']'Vinegar Weed Killer: Grandma's Recipe For Fast Weed Control' (http://tinyurl.com/lkeudq) Damn things see to enjoy being sprayed. What am I doing wrong? I am using the 5% stuff. Can't find the 20% stuff Using only vinegar is better than combine with soap. There are 3 vinegars you should use. You can check here for more information: The field '1bb8feffed6e2f161d9fb34c1b4cda2b' was not recognised. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ would you resend? I found if I pour straight 6% on the weed that it messes up the weed, but does not kill it. It is also really expensive to use a cup of vinegar per weed I got some 20% coming from Amazon. What is your opinion of adding salt to the mixture? |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
In article , T wrote:
What is your opinion of adding salt to the mixture? Great idea if you want to permanently poison your garden - old fashioned traditional agro-terrorism to sow the opposition's fields with salt and starve anyone they didn't kill directly. Pure idiocy otherwise. -- Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away. |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
Bloke Down The Pub wrote:
"T" wrote in message ... On 04/15/2016 04:15 AM, Wolf Phan wrote: 'T[_4_ Wrote: ;1018930']'Vinegar Weed Killer: Grandma's Recipe For Fast Weed Control' (http://tinyurl.com/lkeudq) Damn things see to enjoy being sprayed. What am I doing wrong? I am using the 5% stuff. Can't find the 20% stuff Using only vinegar is better than combine with soap. There are 3 vinegars you should use. You can check here for more information: The field '1bb8feffed6e2f161d9fb34c1b4cda2b' was not recognised. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ would you resend? I found if I pour straight 6% on the weed that it messes up the weed, but does not kill it. It is also really expensive to use a cup of vinegar per weed I got some 20% coming from Amazon. What is your opinion of adding salt to the mixture? According to our gardening gurus http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s3683147.htm a cup, 250ml, to a litre of vinegar does the trick they also offer some other tips, only one of which I have tried, Sheet solarisation, and living in the West of Australia with plenty of sun and very little rain I found this to be very effective. Mike I've had a major part of my garden under plastic for several weeks now to kill out the grass . I realized very early this spring that tilling was just burying the grass seed to sprout later . Last year's heavy straw mulch helped a lot , that in combination with the plastic might give me a chance to get ahead of it and other unwanted growth . Of course that isn't an option with the strawberry beds , I'm planning a vinegar douche there , in hopes that it will give the strawberries a chance to shade out some of the weeds/grasses . -- Snag |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
"T" wrote in message ... On 04/15/2016 04:15 AM, Wolf Phan wrote: 'T[_4_ Wrote: ;1018930']'Vinegar Weed Killer: Grandma's Recipe For Fast Weed Control' (http://tinyurl.com/lkeudq) Damn things see to enjoy being sprayed. What am I doing wrong? I am using the 5% stuff. Can't find the 20% stuff Using only vinegar is better than combine with soap. There are 3 vinegars you should use. You can check here for more information: The field '1bb8feffed6e2f161d9fb34c1b4cda2b' was not recognised. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ would you resend? I found if I pour straight 6% on the weed that it messes up the weed, but does not kill it. It is also really expensive to use a cup of vinegar per weed I got some 20% coming from Amazon. What is your opinion of adding salt to the mixture? According to our gardening gurus http://www.abc.net.au/gardening/stories/s3683147.htm a cup, 250ml, to a litre of vinegar does the trick they also offer some other tips, only one of which I have tried, Sheet solarisation, and living in the West of Australia with plenty of sun and very little rain I found this to be very effective. Mike |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
T wrote:
.... I found if I pour straight 6% on the weed that it messes up the weed, but does not kill it. It is also really expensive to use a cup of vinegar per weed spray it on the leaves with a mister. should not need that much. I got some 20% coming from Amazon. What is your opinion of adding salt to the mixture? as idiotic as spraying weeds with vinegar. if you got time to go around dumping or spraying you got time to pull it or smother it IMO. songbird |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
Terry Coombs wrote:
.... I've had a major part of my garden under plastic for several weeks now to kill out the grass . it can take a few years to kill off the energy stored in roots and the soil seed bank can be viable for many years (varies by species). mulch and cardboard layers will last a few years. some plants need warmer soil to sprout or grow well but once they are up and growing you can go along and mulch around them and put cardboard in the rows and then mulch on top of that. I realized very early this spring that tilling was just burying the grass seed to sprout later . Last year's heavy straw mulch helped a lot , yes, by keeping sunlight and warmth from the top layer of the soil you've reduced the number of seeds that will be able to germinate. that in combination with the plastic might give me a chance to get ahead of it and other unwanted growth . Of course that isn't an option with the strawberry beds , I'm planning a vinegar douche there , in hopes that it will give the strawberries a chance to shade out some of the weeds/grasses . my strawberry beds get mulched with wood chips and hand weeded, but after a few years they need to be renovated anyways. after a few seasons i selectively smother about 1/3 of the plants and then let the surrounding plants grow into the mulch. by the time the mulch has broken down enough and the new plants are established the old ones can then be smothered. i use a mix of wood chips and partially decayed wood chips. i also grow cover crops to help shade the plants during the hot summer months in spots. these then become mulch. beans/peas/soybeans/buckwheat, not too thick. songbird |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 04/15/2016 09:17 PM, songbird wrote:
if you got time to go around dumping or spraying you got time to pull it or smother it IMO. Hi Songbird, Some blabbing and a question on the bottom for you. Since I let my back lawn go to seed last year in hope of replacing it with a garden, I now have weeds I never knew existed. On of them looks like a small shade tree and it pulls really easily. The rest suck to the ground, like the dandelions that won't die. I have to dig these up with a shovel, which is no easy task considering you can make some really awesome bricks out of my soil. My soil isn't soil anyway. I know the guy who graded my property. My back yard is 20 feet down from top soil. It is basically rocks and decomposed sandstone (like decomposed granite, only way, way uglier). If you strike the ground to hard with a shovel, it literally sparks. How some of these weeks managed to bore their roots down in the stuff, I will never know. And, you can only cut their tops off. Then they grow right back and back and back. So vinegar and soap it is, less the salt. Cussing at them doesn't work either. The back yard is too big to cover in cardboard or plastic, especially with the high winds we have. (Two category one hurricane force winds last January.) Rock gardens work with visqueen. Also, this is one for you. My blue garlic comes out pink. I was told that this is because my soil is very alkaline (verified by the local nursery lady.) I little vinegar may help. Your thoughts? -T |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 04/17/2016 05:07 PM, T wrote:
On 04/15/2016 09:17 PM, songbird wrote: if you got time to go around dumping or spraying you got time to pull it or smother it IMO. Hi Songbird, Some blabbing and a question on the bottom for you. Since I let my back lawn go to seed last year in hope of replacing it with a garden, I now have weeds I never knew existed. On one of them looks like a small shade tree and it pulls really easily. The rest suck to the ground, like the dandelions that won't die. I have to dig these up with a shovel, which is no easy task considering you can make some really awesome bricks out of my soil. My soil isn't soil anyway. I know the guy who graded my property. My back yard is 20 feet down from top soil. It is basically rocks and decomposed sandstone (like decomposed granite, only way, way uglier). If you strike the ground to hard with a shovel, it literally sparks. How some of these weeks weeds managed to bore their roots down in the stuff, I will never know. And, you can only cut their tops off. Then they grow right back and back and back. So vinegar and soap it is, less the salt. Cussing at them doesn't work either. The back yard is too big to cover in cardboard or plastic, especially with the high winds we have. (Two category one hurricane force winds last January.) Rock gardens work with visqueen. Also, this is one for you. My blue garlic comes out pink. I was told that this is because my soil is very alkaline (verified by the local nursery lady.) I little vinegar may help. Your thoughts? -T |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
In article , T wrote:
Also, this is one for you. My blue garlic comes out pink. I was told that this is because my soil is very alkaline (verified by the local nursery lady.) I little vinegar may help. Your thoughts? Vinegar's effect is pretty much like cutting the tops off - dubious for really killing the whole plant, other than repeat applications eventually exhausting the roots, or for tender young weed seedlings. Vinegar's effect on the pH of the soil would be fleeting at best. So it's pretty valid to say that if you have time to pour a cup of vinegar on the plant, you have time to chop the plant off with a hoe to similar effect. http://hyg.ipm.illinois.edu/pastpest/200714f.html Too late for you now, but letting weeds go to seed is NOT what you want to do when "in hope of replacing it with a garden" - you want to mow the heck out of it right up until you turn it under or bury it with good soil. Roots can push into some pretty inhospitable soils. Depending on your pH range, you might select a suitable cover crop/green manure, till the mess, and plant the cover crop, precisely for the beneficial effect of the roots (as well as the eventual decomposing of the top mass, and the shading out of weeds.) If your pH is less than 8.2 (you said it was alkaline, so the lower range of 6.0-6.3 won't apply to you) alfalfa can do wonders as part of a "green manure" program, and will shove roots amazing distances downward. Vast quantities of "brown manure" (up to and including sheet composting 6-12" deep) will also help (both to build soil and to buffer pH.) You might find this a worthwhile read WRT alkaline soils: http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/Gardennotes/222.html Depending on your free lime situation or lack thereof, sulfur may not or may help with your pH (depending, of course, on exactly what it is and if it needs help - start with a soil test.) -- Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away. |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
T wrote:
songbird wrote: if you got time to go around dumping or spraying you got time to pull it or smother it IMO. Hi Songbird, Some blabbing and a question on the bottom for you. Since I let my back lawn go to seed last year in hope of replacing it with a garden, I now have weeds I never knew existed. weeds are free organic matter, if they will grow where nothing else will they can then be chopped and used for other things, like building mulch or topsoil fertility. On of them looks like a small shade tree and it pulls really easily. The rest suck to the ground, like the dandelions that won't die. I have to dig these up with a shovel, which is no easy task considering you can make some really awesome bricks out of my soil. My soil isn't soil anyway. I know the guy who graded my property. My back yard is 20 feet down from top soil. It is basically rocks and decomposed sandstone (like decomposed granite, only way, way uglier). If you strike the ground to hard with a shovel, it literally sparks. How some of these weeks managed to bore their roots down in the stuff, I will never know. And, you can only cut their tops off. Then they grow right back and back and back. So vinegar and soap it is, less the salt. Cussing at them doesn't work either. The back yard is too big to cover in cardboard or plastic, especially with the high winds we have. (Two category one hurricane force winds last January.) Rock gardens work with visqueen. rock gardens are just fine ways to cover an area. we have plenty of those here ourselves. also, if you do not need it for anything is there any reason to do anything with it at all? we have some land here on the other side of the large drainage ditch. i'd like to put some fruit trees back there but it's so far back there and hard to get to right now that it's just growing small shrubs and trees now. i'll need to cut it all back in the next few years if i don't want it to turn into woodland/trees. Also, this is one for you. My blue garlic comes out pink. I was told that this is because my soil is very alkaline (verified by the local nursery lady.) I little vinegar may help. Your thoughts? if you are just going to grow a few plants, i would bring in some good topsoil add some composted cow manure and any other organic materials i could scrounge up. make sure the area is leveled and drainage is good and also make sure there is a wind break to protect against the drying winds. that will solve the poor soil problem and your pH will be corrected. for the rest of the area as you can scrounge free organic materials and chop and drop whatever weeds that grow to get your topsoil developing environment going. as most of the processes of forming topsoil involve moisture it is better to have things piled deep enough to preserve moisture than to scatter your efforts widely. you might also be able to scrounge free fill that is better than what you have. even if you have to do it a few yards at a time... as you get an area covered and able to absorb and store moisture then it will support worm and other soil community creatures (you may need to innoculate the area with soil from a healthy area). these build topsoil and support plant life. your pH will change as more organic matter is added. it's just a matter of scale, what you want to put into it, how much money you want to spend, and how much you're willing to be patient while nature does some work for you. songbird |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 04/17/2016 07:32 PM, Ecnerwal wrote:
In article , T wrote: Also, this is one for you. My blue garlic comes out pink. I was told that this is because my soil is very alkaline (verified by the local nursery lady.) I little vinegar may help. Your thoughts? Vinegar's effect is pretty much like cutting the tops off - dubious for really killing the whole plant, other than repeat applications eventually exhausting the roots, or for tender young weed seedlings. Vinegar's effect on the pH of the soil would be fleeting at best. So it's pretty valid to say that if you have time to pour a cup of vinegar on the plant, you have time to chop the plant off with a hoe to similar effect. http://hyg.ipm.illinois.edu/pastpest/200714f.html Too late for you now, but letting weeds go to seed is NOT what you want to do when "in hope of replacing it with a garden" Actually, I let the lawn go to seed. The weeds stayed behind. They were always there, just crowded out - you want to mow the heck out of it right up until you turn it under or bury it with good soil. Roots can push into some pretty inhospitable soils. Depending on your pH range, you might select a suitable cover crop/green manure, till the mess, and plant the cover crop, precisely for the beneficial effect of the roots (as well as the eventual decomposing of the top mass, and the shading out of weeds.) If your pH is less than 8.2 (you said it was alkaline, so the lower range of 6.0-6.3 won't apply to you) alfalfa can do wonders as part of a "green manure" program, and will shove roots amazing distances downward. Vast quantities of "brown manure" (up to and including sheet composting 6-12" deep) will also help (both to build soil and to buffer pH.) You might find this a worthwhile read WRT alkaline soils: http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/Gardennotes/222.html Depending on your free lime situation or lack thereof, sulfur may not or may help with your pH (depending, of course, on exactly what it is and if it needs help - start with a soil test.) Thank you. I have some reading to do! |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 04/17/2016 08:25 PM, songbird wrote:
T wrote: songbird wrote: if you got time to go around dumping or spraying you got time to pull it or smother it IMO. Hi Songbird, Some blabbing and a question on the bottom for you. Since I let my back lawn go to seed last year in hope of replacing it with a garden, I now have weeds I never knew existed. weeds are free organic matter, if they will grow where nothing else will they can then be chopped and used for other things, like building mulch or topsoil fertility. On of them looks like a small shade tree and it pulls really easily. The rest suck to the ground, like the dandelions that won't die. I have to dig these up with a shovel, which is no easy task considering you can make some really awesome bricks out of my soil. My soil isn't soil anyway. I know the guy who graded my property. My back yard is 20 feet down from top soil. It is basically rocks and decomposed sandstone (like decomposed granite, only way, way uglier). If you strike the ground to hard with a shovel, it literally sparks. How some of these weeks managed to bore their roots down in the stuff, I will never know. And, you can only cut their tops off. Then they grow right back and back and back. So vinegar and soap it is, less the salt. Cussing at them doesn't work either. The back yard is too big to cover in cardboard or plastic, especially with the high winds we have. (Two category one hurricane force winds last January.) Rock gardens work with visqueen. rock gardens are just fine ways to cover an area. we have plenty of those here ourselves. also, if you do not need it for anything is there any reason to do anything with it at all? we have some land here on the other side of the large drainage ditch. i'd like to put some fruit trees back there but it's so far back there and hard to get to right now that it's just growing small shrubs and trees now. i'll need to cut it all back in the next few years if i don't want it to turn into woodland/trees. Also, this is one for you. My blue garlic comes out pink. I was told that this is because my soil is very alkaline (verified by the local nursery lady.) I little vinegar may help. Your thoughts? if you are just going to grow a few plants, i would bring in some good topsoil add some composted cow manure and any other organic materials i could scrounge up. make sure the area is leveled and drainage is good and also make sure there is a wind break to protect against the drying winds. that will solve the poor soil problem and your pH will be corrected. for the rest of the area as you can scrounge free organic materials and chop and drop whatever weeds that grow to get your topsoil developing environment going. as most of the processes of forming topsoil involve moisture it is better to have things piled deep enough to preserve moisture than to scatter your efforts widely. you might also be able to scrounge free fill that is better than what you have. even if you have to do it a few yards at a time... as you get an area covered and able to absorb and store moisture then it will support worm and other soil community creatures (you may need to innoculate the area with soil from a healthy area). these build topsoil and support plant life. your pH will change as more organic matter is added. it's just a matter of scale, what you want to put into it, how much money you want to spend, and how much you're willing to be patient while nature does some work for you. songbird Thank you. I am wondering where to get some cow poop. We have lots of cows about, but I haven't seen anyone selling it. I got in late last night. I put my headset on and cut a four foot wide swath through the weeds. When I am done picking them and they dry out a bit, I am planning on digging them into holes that I will eventually plant zukes in. Here is an interesting observation. I think the weeds were always there in my lawn. When the grass dies, the weeds stayed. |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 4/19/2016 3:04 PM, T wrote:
On 04/17/2016 08:25 PM, songbird wrote: T wrote: songbird wrote: if you got time to go around dumping or spraying you got time to pull it or smother it IMO. Hi Songbird, Some blabbing and a question on the bottom for you. Since I let my back lawn go to seed last year in hope of replacing it with a garden, I now have weeds I never knew existed. weeds are free organic matter, if they will grow where nothing else will they can then be chopped and used for other things, like building mulch or topsoil fertility. On of them looks like a small shade tree and it pulls really easily. The rest suck to the ground, like the dandelions that won't die. I have to dig these up with a shovel, which is no easy task considering you can make some really awesome bricks out of my soil. My soil isn't soil anyway. I know the guy who graded my property. My back yard is 20 feet down from top soil. It is basically rocks and decomposed sandstone (like decomposed granite, only way, way uglier). If you strike the ground to hard with a shovel, it literally sparks. How some of these weeks managed to bore their roots down in the stuff, I will never know. And, you can only cut their tops off. Then they grow right back and back and back. So vinegar and soap it is, less the salt. Cussing at them doesn't work either. The back yard is too big to cover in cardboard or plastic, especially with the high winds we have. (Two category one hurricane force winds last January.) Rock gardens work with visqueen. rock gardens are just fine ways to cover an area. we have plenty of those here ourselves. also, if you do not need it for anything is there any reason to do anything with it at all? we have some land here on the other side of the large drainage ditch. i'd like to put some fruit trees back there but it's so far back there and hard to get to right now that it's just growing small shrubs and trees now. i'll need to cut it all back in the next few years if i don't want it to turn into woodland/trees. Also, this is one for you. My blue garlic comes out pink. I was told that this is because my soil is very alkaline (verified by the local nursery lady.) I little vinegar may help. Your thoughts? if you are just going to grow a few plants, i would bring in some good topsoil add some composted cow manure and any other organic materials i could scrounge up. make sure the area is leveled and drainage is good and also make sure there is a wind break to protect against the drying winds. that will solve the poor soil problem and your pH will be corrected. for the rest of the area as you can scrounge free organic materials and chop and drop whatever weeds that grow to get your topsoil developing environment going. as most of the processes of forming topsoil involve moisture it is better to have things piled deep enough to preserve moisture than to scatter your efforts widely. you might also be able to scrounge free fill that is better than what you have. even if you have to do it a few yards at a time... as you get an area covered and able to absorb and store moisture then it will support worm and other soil community creatures (you may need to innoculate the area with soil from a healthy area). these build topsoil and support plant life. your pH will change as more organic matter is added. it's just a matter of scale, what you want to put into it, how much money you want to spend, and how much you're willing to be patient while nature does some work for you. songbird Thank you. I am wondering where to get some cow poop. We have lots of cows about, but I haven't seen anyone selling it. We've had good luck in asking about getting the cow manure and shovel it yourself into a trailer or pick-up. Worked for us for many years. There is a compost called "Black Cow" available at Lowe's. Now that we basically live on the outskirts of Houston, TX that's where we get our manure. Works well. I got in late last night. I put my headset on and cut a four foot wide swath through the weeds. When I am done picking them and they dry out a bit, I am planning on digging them into holes that I will eventually plant zukes in. The smaller you cut the weeds the faster they rot. I usually run over them with the mower two or three times and it gets smaller each time Here is an interesting observation. I think the weeds were always there in my lawn. When the grass dies, the weeds stayed. Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we married. G |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
T wrote:
.... Thank you. I am wondering where to get some cow poop. We have lots of cows about, but I haven't seen anyone selling it. may not be around easily found if all the cattle are free range and no dairies. the home depot option is fine for small amounts needed if you are doing small patch amending. worms/worm castings are good too and you can use those weed scraps as part of the food. I got in late last night. I put my headset on and cut a four foot wide swath through the weeds. When I am done picking them and they dry out a bit, I am planning on digging them into holes that I will eventually plant zukes in. you'll want some green stuff in there too, get it in a few weeks before you put the plants in. if you do a few layers deep alternating green stuff, brown stuff and some dirt, topsoil and composted cow manure you'll have a nice start. keep it damp (not needed to be super soggy). Here is an interesting observation. I think the weeds were always there in my lawn. When the grass dies, the weeds stayed. there is usually some remaining seeds in almost any soil unless it has been sterilized in some manner. the seeds of some plants will last quite a long time (especially in the more arid climates). i heard that crab grass seed can last 75yrs... i don't much care for lawns/grass and everything being even and perfect. a mulching mower and frequent trimming when the wet/growing season is on will select for plants that can tolerate that sort of treatment. good enough for me until i can get rid of the mower entirely. for very hard soils i'd just go up top with hay bales and use them to frame a small area and plant the zukes into a mix of topsoil and composted cow manure or the worm castings. the hay bales will eventually break down and turn into humus. they have more weed seeds than straw bales, but i like having green stuff eventually rotting. some people mulch with straw, we usually have wood chips. when those rot they turn into prime humus. if you can find anyone trimming trees and grinding them up they are often happy to deliver a truckload if they happen to be in your area, just ask. because i want woody materials to last longer rather than rot fast i don't want things shredded too finely. some larger chunks are good, they help hold moisture. as a top mulch i want fairly large chips or even have used pieces of bark to cover in between plants (sometimes with cardboard underneath them). really, it doesn't matter what exact organic materials you can find or grow, most of will break down into humus eventually if you have moisture/rains and the soil critters to help things out (and fungi too). songbird |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
George Shirley wrote:
.... Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we married. G hahaha... we have areas where we've never weeded. the rabbits seem to selectively eat the weeds and leave most of the grass alone. we just mow it once in a while with a mulching mower so there is no raking involved. there is a few areas that are crab grass invaded but those are all patches that exist because Ma sprays herbicides and it leaves bare soil that the crab grass will get going in too easily. i try to keep them weeded if i can, but i can't always keep up so it's just what it is. if i stay longer term all the grass will be turned into gardens and the mower will go away. i can trim some areas with the hedge trimmer or a string trimmer (with a cutting blade) as needed. alfalfa is a good crop for green manure (free N fertilizer). songbird |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 4/19/2016 7:59 PM, songbird wrote:
George Shirley wrote: ... Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we married. G hahaha... we have areas where we've never weeded. the rabbits seem to selectively eat the weeds and leave most of the grass alone. we just mow it once in a while with a mulching mower so there is no raking involved. We haven't seen any rabbits yet. Wouldn't mind seeing one in the evening, break out the air rifle with the suppressor and the scope, runs at about 1250 fps and should take out a rabbit for dinner. A flock of white Muscovy ducks landed on the retention pond this afternoon. They're not native so they're free game. Unfortunately there were people walking around the pond. Dang! there is a few areas that are crab grass invaded but those are all patches that exist because Ma sprays herbicides and it leaves bare soil that the crab grass will get going in too easily. i try to keep them weeded if i can, but i can't always keep up so it's just what it is. if i stay longer term all the grass will be turned into gardens and the mower will go away. i can trim some areas with the hedge trimmer or a string trimmer (with a cutting blade) as needed. alfalfa is a good crop for green manure (free N fertilizer). songbird We got a truck load of spoiled alfalfa many years ago for free and another truck load of spoiled plain grass hay. Big storm east of us and caught some truckers without cover. Friend of mine who was dealing with them had them come over to our old place with 10 acres and the unloaded on us. Stacked the bales around the big garden up to about eight feet tall and the tomatoes and peppers made fruit all winter. Gradually it all rotted away, pulled out the strings and scattered over a place we wanted to turn into a bean field. Had lots of beans and other veggies for several years. Haven't seen any hay truck but once since then. Don't think we had any droughts for a long time either. No rain today, maybe tomorrow. Gardens and other plants got so much water this past week we're having to fertilize again. George |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 04/19/2016 05:48 PM, songbird wrote:
T wrote: ... Thank you. I am wondering where to get some cow poop. We have lots of cows about, but I haven't seen anyone selling it. may not be around easily found if all the cattle are free range and no dairies. the home depot option is fine for small amounts needed if you are doing small patch amending. worms/worm castings are good too and you can use those weed scraps as part of the food. I got in late last night. I put my headset on and cut a four foot wide swath through the weeds. When I am done picking them and they dry out a bit, I am planning on digging them into holes that I will eventually plant zukes in. you'll want some green stuff in there too, get it in a few weeks before you put the plants in. if you do a few layers deep alternating green stuff, brown stuff and some dirt, topsoil and composted cow manure you'll have a nice start. keep it damp (not needed to be super soggy). Here is an interesting observation. I think the weeds were always there in my lawn. When the grass dies, the weeds stayed. there is usually some remaining seeds in almost any soil unless it has been sterilized in some manner. the seeds of some plants will last quite a long time (especially in the more arid climates). i heard that crab grass seed can last 75yrs... i don't much care for lawns/grass and everything being even and perfect. a mulching mower and frequent trimming when the wet/growing season is on will select for plants that can tolerate that sort of treatment. good enough for me until i can get rid of the mower entirely. for very hard soils i'd just go up top with hay bales and use them to frame a small area and plant the zukes into a mix of topsoil and composted cow manure or the worm castings. the hay bales will eventually break down and turn into humus. they have more weed seeds than straw bales, but i like having green stuff eventually rotting. some people mulch with straw, we usually have wood chips. when those rot they turn into prime humus. if you can find anyone trimming trees and grinding them up they are often happy to deliver a truckload if they happen to be in your area, just ask. because i want woody materials to last longer rather than rot fast i don't want things shredded too finely. some larger chunks are good, they help hold moisture. as a top mulch i want fairly large chips or even have used pieces of bark to cover in between plants (sometimes with cardboard underneath them). really, it doesn't matter what exact organic materials you can find or grow, most of will break down into humus eventually if you have moisture/rains and the soil critters to help things out (and fungi too). songbird Thank you! The dandelions I recognize as I have been trying to kill them for years. Vinegar might not kill them, but it sure screws them something terrible, so it may only be an emotional thing for me. Cow poop it is! I will see what I can find in a bag. Hope getting it home doesn't stick up my car. -T |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 04/19/2016 02:02 PM, George Shirley wrote:
On 4/19/2016 3:04 PM, T wrote: On 04/17/2016 08:25 PM, songbird wrote: T wrote: songbird wrote: if you got time to go around dumping or spraying you got time to pull it or smother it IMO. Hi Songbird, Some blabbing and a question on the bottom for you. Since I let my back lawn go to seed last year in hope of replacing it with a garden, I now have weeds I never knew existed. weeds are free organic matter, if they will grow where nothing else will they can then be chopped and used for other things, like building mulch or topsoil fertility. On of them looks like a small shade tree and it pulls really easily. The rest suck to the ground, like the dandelions that won't die. I have to dig these up with a shovel, which is no easy task considering you can make some really awesome bricks out of my soil. My soil isn't soil anyway. I know the guy who graded my property. My back yard is 20 feet down from top soil. It is basically rocks and decomposed sandstone (like decomposed granite, only way, way uglier). If you strike the ground to hard with a shovel, it literally sparks. How some of these weeks managed to bore their roots down in the stuff, I will never know. And, you can only cut their tops off. Then they grow right back and back and back. So vinegar and soap it is, less the salt. Cussing at them doesn't work either. The back yard is too big to cover in cardboard or plastic, especially with the high winds we have. (Two category one hurricane force winds last January.) Rock gardens work with visqueen. rock gardens are just fine ways to cover an area. we have plenty of those here ourselves. also, if you do not need it for anything is there any reason to do anything with it at all? we have some land here on the other side of the large drainage ditch. i'd like to put some fruit trees back there but it's so far back there and hard to get to right now that it's just growing small shrubs and trees now. i'll need to cut it all back in the next few years if i don't want it to turn into woodland/trees. Also, this is one for you. My blue garlic comes out pink. I was told that this is because my soil is very alkaline (verified by the local nursery lady.) I little vinegar may help. Your thoughts? if you are just going to grow a few plants, i would bring in some good topsoil add some composted cow manure and any other organic materials i could scrounge up. make sure the area is leveled and drainage is good and also make sure there is a wind break to protect against the drying winds. that will solve the poor soil problem and your pH will be corrected. for the rest of the area as you can scrounge free organic materials and chop and drop whatever weeds that grow to get your topsoil developing environment going. as most of the processes of forming topsoil involve moisture it is better to have things piled deep enough to preserve moisture than to scatter your efforts widely. you might also be able to scrounge free fill that is better than what you have. even if you have to do it a few yards at a time... as you get an area covered and able to absorb and store moisture then it will support worm and other soil community creatures (you may need to innoculate the area with soil from a healthy area). these build topsoil and support plant life. your pH will change as more organic matter is added. it's just a matter of scale, what you want to put into it, how much money you want to spend, and how much you're willing to be patient while nature does some work for you. songbird Thank you. I am wondering where to get some cow poop. We have lots of cows about, but I haven't seen anyone selling it. We've had good luck in asking about getting the cow manure and shovel it yourself into a trailer or pick-up. Worked for us for many years. There is a compost called "Black Cow" available at Lowe's. Now that we basically live on the outskirts of Houston, TX that's where we get our manure. Works well. I got in late last night. I put my headset on and cut a four foot wide swath through the weeds. When I am done picking them and they dry out a bit, I am planning on digging them into holes that I will eventually plant zukes in. The smaller you cut the weeds the faster they rot. I usually run over them with the mower two or three times and it gets smaller each time Here is an interesting observation. I think the weeds were always there in my lawn. When the grass dies, the weeds stayed. Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we married. G Thank you! No pickup truck and no lawn mover. Just out of curiosity, how deep do you have to go to keep the little buzzards seeds/root from coming back up? I am planning on planting two more Ponderosa Pines to kep my other one company. Their needles will eventually acidify the soil and provide some ground cover. |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 04/19/2016 06:12 PM, George Shirley wrote:
On 4/19/2016 7:59 PM, songbird wrote: George Shirley wrote: ... Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we married. G hahaha... we have areas where we've never weeded. the rabbits seem to selectively eat the weeds and leave most of the grass alone. we just mow it once in a while with a mulching mower so there is no raking involved. We haven't seen any rabbits yet. Wouldn't mind seeing one in the evening, break out the air rifle with the suppressor and the scope, runs at about 1250 fps and should take out a rabbit for dinner. A flock of white Muscovy ducks landed on the retention pond this afternoon. They're not native so they're free game. Unfortunately there were people walking around the pond. Dang! there is a few areas that are crab grass invaded but those are all patches that exist because Ma sprays herbicides and it leaves bare soil that the crab grass will get going in too easily. i try to keep them weeded if i can, but i can't always keep up so it's just what it is. if i stay longer term all the grass will be turned into gardens and the mower will go away. i can trim some areas with the hedge trimmer or a string trimmer (with a cutting blade) as needed. alfalfa is a good crop for green manure (free N fertilizer). songbird We got a truck load of spoiled alfalfa many years ago for free and another truck load of spoiled plain grass hay. Big storm east of us and caught some truckers without cover. Friend of mine who was dealing with them had them come over to our old place with 10 acres and the unloaded on us. Stacked the bales around the big garden up to about eight feet tall and the tomatoes and peppers made fruit all winter. Gradually it all rotted away, pulled out the strings and scattered over a place we wanted to turn into a bean field. Had lots of beans and other veggies for several years. Haven't seen any hay truck but once since then. Don't think we had any droughts for a long time either. No rain today, maybe tomorrow. Gardens and other plants got so much water this past week we're having to fertilize again. George Texas rains can be something to behold! I can grow carp. Well except weeds. Maybe I can coax my purslane to choke out the weeds. It hasn't come up yet this year. |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 4/20/2016 7:15 PM, T wrote:
On 04/19/2016 02:02 PM, George Shirley wrote: On 4/19/2016 3:04 PM, T wrote: On 04/17/2016 08:25 PM, songbird wrote: T wrote: songbird wrote: if you got time to go around dumping or spraying you got time to pull it or smother it IMO. Hi Songbird, Some blabbing and a question on the bottom for you. Since I let my back lawn go to seed last year in hope of replacing it with a garden, I now have weeds I never knew existed. weeds are free organic matter, if they will grow where nothing else will they can then be chopped and used for other things, like building mulch or topsoil fertility. On of them looks like a small shade tree and it pulls really easily. The rest suck to the ground, like the dandelions that won't die. I have to dig these up with a shovel, which is no easy task considering you can make some really awesome bricks out of my soil. My soil isn't soil anyway. I know the guy who graded my property. My back yard is 20 feet down from top soil. It is basically rocks and decomposed sandstone (like decomposed granite, only way, way uglier). If you strike the ground to hard with a shovel, it literally sparks. How some of these weeks managed to bore their roots down in the stuff, I will never know. And, you can only cut their tops off. Then they grow right back and back and back. So vinegar and soap it is, less the salt. Cussing at them doesn't work either. The back yard is too big to cover in cardboard or plastic, especially with the high winds we have. (Two category one hurricane force winds last January.) Rock gardens work with visqueen. rock gardens are just fine ways to cover an area. we have plenty of those here ourselves. also, if you do not need it for anything is there any reason to do anything with it at all? we have some land here on the other side of the large drainage ditch. i'd like to put some fruit trees back there but it's so far back there and hard to get to right now that it's just growing small shrubs and trees now. i'll need to cut it all back in the next few years if i don't want it to turn into woodland/trees. Also, this is one for you. My blue garlic comes out pink. I was told that this is because my soil is very alkaline (verified by the local nursery lady.) I little vinegar may help. Your thoughts? if you are just going to grow a few plants, i would bring in some good topsoil add some composted cow manure and any other organic materials i could scrounge up. make sure the area is leveled and drainage is good and also make sure there is a wind break to protect against the drying winds. that will solve the poor soil problem and your pH will be corrected. for the rest of the area as you can scrounge free organic materials and chop and drop whatever weeds that grow to get your topsoil developing environment going. as most of the processes of forming topsoil involve moisture it is better to have things piled deep enough to preserve moisture than to scatter your efforts widely. you might also be able to scrounge free fill that is better than what you have. even if you have to do it a few yards at a time... as you get an area covered and able to absorb and store moisture then it will support worm and other soil community creatures (you may need to innoculate the area with soil from a healthy area). these build topsoil and support plant life. your pH will change as more organic matter is added. it's just a matter of scale, what you want to put into it, how much money you want to spend, and how much you're willing to be patient while nature does some work for you. songbird Thank you. I am wondering where to get some cow poop. We have lots of cows about, but I haven't seen anyone selling it. We've had good luck in asking about getting the cow manure and shovel it yourself into a trailer or pick-up. Worked for us for many years. There is a compost called "Black Cow" available at Lowe's. Now that we basically live on the outskirts of Houston, TX that's where we get our manure. Works well. I got in late last night. I put my headset on and cut a four foot wide swath through the weeds. When I am done picking them and they dry out a bit, I am planning on digging them into holes that I will eventually plant zukes in. The smaller you cut the weeds the faster they rot. I usually run over them with the mower two or three times and it gets smaller each time Here is an interesting observation. I think the weeds were always there in my lawn. When the grass dies, the weeds stayed. Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we married. G Thank you! No pickup truck and no lawn mover. Just out of curiosity, how deep do you have to go to keep the little buzzards seeds/root from coming back up? Nut grass actually has a nut at the bottom, that has to come out or another weed grows. Dandelions is a shot at getting it all, we usually stick a finger into the ground and feel for roots then push it out. Every weed has some sort of problem with wanting to live and procreate. Get rough with them. I am planning on planting two more Ponderosa Pines to kep my other one company. Their needles will eventually acidify the soil and provide some ground cover. I grew up in the piney woods of SE Texas, takes many moons to actually acidify soil that way. It is a cheap way though if you're patient. Not raining at the moment, more tomorrow is what the weather folk are saying. Lots of folks in Houston proper and the other cities and towns on the drainage plain are under several feet of water for the second year. So far we're just getting lots of water on the gardens and they are doing well. Sun came out this afternoon and everything growing perked up. I took a lot of "rain" limbs off the pear tree. Blasted thing grow faster the more water they get. George |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 4/20/2016 7:17 PM, T wrote:
On 04/19/2016 06:12 PM, George Shirley wrote: On 4/19/2016 7:59 PM, songbird wrote: George Shirley wrote: ... Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we married. G hahaha... we have areas where we've never weeded. the rabbits seem to selectively eat the weeds and leave most of the grass alone. we just mow it once in a while with a mulching mower so there is no raking involved. We haven't seen any rabbits yet. Wouldn't mind seeing one in the evening, break out the air rifle with the suppressor and the scope, runs at about 1250 fps and should take out a rabbit for dinner. A flock of white Muscovy ducks landed on the retention pond this afternoon. They're not native so they're free game. Unfortunately there were people walking around the pond. Dang! there is a few areas that are crab grass invaded but those are all patches that exist because Ma sprays herbicides and it leaves bare soil that the crab grass will get going in too easily. i try to keep them weeded if i can, but i can't always keep up so it's just what it is. if i stay longer term all the grass will be turned into gardens and the mower will go away. i can trim some areas with the hedge trimmer or a string trimmer (with a cutting blade) as needed. alfalfa is a good crop for green manure (free N fertilizer). songbird We got a truck load of spoiled alfalfa many years ago for free and another truck load of spoiled plain grass hay. Big storm east of us and caught some truckers without cover. Friend of mine who was dealing with them had them come over to our old place with 10 acres and the unloaded on us. Stacked the bales around the big garden up to about eight feet tall and the tomatoes and peppers made fruit all winter. Gradually it all rotted away, pulled out the strings and scattered over a place we wanted to turn into a bean field. Had lots of beans and other veggies for several years. Haven't seen any hay truck but once since then. Don't think we had any droughts for a long time either. No rain today, maybe tomorrow. Gardens and other plants got so much water this past week we're having to fertilize again. George Texas rains can be something to behold! I can grow carp. Well except weeds. Maybe I can coax my purslane to choke out the weeds. It hasn't come up yet this year. To be a decent gardener you have to understand your climate, the rain patterns, what the soil is made of, and, even then, you can lose. Think of it as something fun to do and you won't go completely bonkers. |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
T wrote:
.... The dandelions I recognize as I have been trying to kill them for years. Vinegar might not kill them, but it sure screws them something terrible, so it may only be an emotional thing for me. i like dandelions, Ma just mows them down when they start flowering and then about every three to four days, not many make it to seed stage. Cow poop it is! I will see what I can find in a bag. Hope getting it home doesn't stick up my car. it is composted already, doesn't stink like much of anything that i recall, it's very low nutrient organic material, that is why i use wood chips instead, can get them much cheaper/free. can you grow alfalfa anywhere on your property? that's a good source of N to add to a heap for growing zukes. or get a few bags of alfalfa pellets to mix in your piles. for the money i think they're better than composted cow poo. we have another landscaper guy we talked to this morning who will drop off wood chips when he's out this way and has tree work as it saves him from having to haul them somewhere else to dump. for the cost of gas it will be a bargain. i see you mention being able to grow ponderosa pines. the needles from those would be good humus eventually too. they do not acidify nearly as much as some people think. humus itself is mildly acidic. just be happy to scrounge any free organics you can and then let nature do the rest. you'll get some good topsoil eventually. have i shown you this picture before? http://www.anthive.com/flowers/100_6775_Wormies.jpg the light colored soil is our native clay mixed with some sand (if we can get it) and then the dark is what happens when i take some of that native soil and recondition it for a year in the worm buckets. songbird |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
T wrote:
.... I can grow carp. Well except weeds. Maybe I can coax my purslane to choke out the weeds. It hasn't come up yet this year. put a few carp in your zuke mounds! at the bottom. best fertilizer ever. :) purslane grows well here too. starts too late to be a good ground cover (grows here as an annual). mixed with other things it's ok. see if you can get some alfalfa going. songbird |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
George Shirley wrote:
.... To be a decent gardener you have to understand your climate, the rain patterns, what the soil is made of, and, even then, you can lose. Think of it as something fun to do and you won't go completely bonkers. i agree, some crops you may not succeed with some years, but it helps to pay attention and read what you can on soils/plants/biology/botany/etc. what i've noticed here is that planting diversity helps keep me more interested too. that even if some patches don't make it some others might. i really don't mind weeds and untidyness in the gardens. i'd much rather have something growing in a spot than having bare dirt. to me weeds are free energy collectors and free worm food. when i do need a space i dig a hole and bury the weeds and then plant over them. by the time the seedlings get their roots down very far the worst of the fermentation has happened and the worms are in there doing their thing. only a few select weeds survive this kind of treatment and their roots need to be dried out before they get buried (sow thistle, thistles in general, dandelions, queen anne's lace, chickory, potatoes). songbird |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
In article ,
George Shirley wrote: I grew up in the piney woods of SE Texas, takes many moons to actually acidify soil that way. It is a cheap way though if you're patient. If you are less patient, see if you can find baled "pine straw." I have some reservations about the fact that folks seem to be happy to strip their forests of organic material to sell it, but given that they do, it would help your (T's) yard a little faster than not. And of course, try to get as many leaves as possible in leaf season, when folks are throwing them away...spoiled hay is likewise highly useful (unspoiled hay is also useful, but much more expensive.) Even shredded paper helps, though it ties up nitrogen while it decomposes. Creeping buttercup is currently my least-favorite weed; it will find the surface from being buried 6" down and mulched over. I now aim for partially dry and (sealed, anerobic) compost on that stuff. -- Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away. |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 4/21/2016 9:03 PM, Ecnerwal wrote:
In article , George Shirley wrote: I grew up in the piney woods of SE Texas, takes many moons to actually acidify soil that way. It is a cheap way though if you're patient. If you are less patient, see if you can find baled "pine straw." I have some reservations about the fact that folks seem to be happy to strip their forests of organic material to sell it, but given that they do, it would help your (T's) yard a little faster than not. And of course, try to get as many leaves as possible in leaf season, when folks are throwing them away...spoiled hay is likewise highly useful (unspoiled hay is also useful, but much more expensive.) Even shredded paper helps, though it ties up nitrogen while it decomposes. Creeping buttercup is currently my least-favorite weed; it will find the surface from being buried 6" down and mulched over. I now aim for partially dry and (sealed, anerobic) compost on that stuff. I wish we had something other than live oaks in this subdivision. We have a young pear and a young fig that drop leaves but that's about a quarter bushel of useful leaves. The kumquat tree seldom sheds leaves and the pine woods behind us have been decimated for more houses. Off hand we have something between 3 and 5 thousand new homes going in within a square mile or so. I am going to drive around the nearby subdivision that has oak and other leaf shedding trees this fall. I don't think those folks would mind if I stole their bags of leafs from the curb. Might have to slide around right after they have all gone to work. Being retired helps with that. G We have a barrel composter, no compost heaps in this subdivision, it is banned. Shredded paper of any kind takes a long time to compost that way. I help it along with a bit of water each time I open the barrel and have recently started soaking the scrap news and other papers. Will see if shredded cardboard rots quickly when it has been through the shredder. Looks like a good spot of "brown" stuff for the composter. I put the egg shells through an old food processor and turn the shells into very small bits, seems to compost much quicker that way and adds a goodly amount of calcium to the mix. Also saves those items from the recycling bin. Our trash output is very small, maybe three lbs worth on a busy week. We can most of our own food at home so not many cans and cartons to recycle. I miss our huge cherry bark oak from our place in Louisiana. Seemed to drop about a ton of leaves each year that went directly into the gardens. Thing was a little over nine feet in diameter at three feet about grade. I even forgave the tree for dropping a six inch diameter limb through our roof during a hurricane. G George |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
Ecnerwal wrote:
.... Creeping buttercup is currently my least-favorite weed; it will find the surface from being buried 6" down and mulched over. I now aim for partially dry and (sealed, anerobic) compost on that stuff. if you're willing to use shredded paper then plain cardboard or cardboard with some black ink on it is very good for smothering hard to get rid of weeds. a few layers overlapped so that water can get through will work just fine. then put your mulch on top. by the time the cardboard gets broken down by worms/pill bugs/fungi, etc. the weeds have usually run out of energy. i use this method on most of the spots that turn out to be a lot of trouble and i don't want to disturb them by digging up the entire area. much less work than digging and pulling weeds out too. especially considering you can usually get cardboard for free from almost any store. i used this method last year along a fence that was being taken over by pennyroyal and also a low area that was collecting weed seeds that i wanted to cover. spent about 5 minutes the rest of the season getting a few stragglers along an edge. in the low spot eventually the bark pieces and stuff i put in there will be good humus to scrape up and use someplace else and i can put down another round for the worms to work on. songbird |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 04/21/2016 10:38 AM, songbird wrote:
T wrote: ... I can grow carp. Well except weeds. Maybe I can coax my purslane to choke out the weeds. It hasn't come up yet this year. put a few carp in your zuke mounds! at the bottom. best fertilizer ever. :) A few of the local fishing pons have goldfish (ugly carp) in them from individuals that forgot to flush them. They mess up the pond pretty bad. Haven't figured out how to catch them yet. purslane grows well here too. starts too late to be a good ground cover (grows here as an annual). mixed with other things it's ok. see if you can get some alfalfa going. songbird I just found my purslane sprouts coming up yesterday! There is a huge debate around these parts that zukes do better without mounds. So far the flat earth crown is winning with a higher yield. What are your thoughts? Also, in my garage, I was going to pot my tomatillos and zukes next week. We will have freezing nights still till June. So I put my little pots over by my garage windows and take them out side during the warmth of the day (~65-75F), then take them back in a night. Your thoughts? Thank you for helping me with this! |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 04/20/2016 06:33 PM, George Shirley wrote:
On 4/20/2016 7:15 PM, T wrote: On 04/19/2016 02:02 PM, George Shirley wrote: On 4/19/2016 3:04 PM, T wrote: On 04/17/2016 08:25 PM, songbird wrote: T wrote: songbird wrote: if you got time to go around dumping or spraying you got time to pull it or smother it IMO. Hi Songbird, Some blabbing and a question on the bottom for you. Since I let my back lawn go to seed last year in hope of replacing it with a garden, I now have weeds I never knew existed. weeds are free organic matter, if they will grow where nothing else will they can then be chopped and used for other things, like building mulch or topsoil fertility. On of them looks like a small shade tree and it pulls really easily. The rest suck to the ground, like the dandelions that won't die. I have to dig these up with a shovel, which is no easy task considering you can make some really awesome bricks out of my soil. My soil isn't soil anyway. I know the guy who graded my property. My back yard is 20 feet down from top soil. It is basically rocks and decomposed sandstone (like decomposed granite, only way, way uglier). If you strike the ground to hard with a shovel, it literally sparks. How some of these weeks managed to bore their roots down in the stuff, I will never know. And, you can only cut their tops off. Then they grow right back and back and back. So vinegar and soap it is, less the salt. Cussing at them doesn't work either. The back yard is too big to cover in cardboard or plastic, especially with the high winds we have. (Two category one hurricane force winds last January.) Rock gardens work with visqueen. rock gardens are just fine ways to cover an area. we have plenty of those here ourselves. also, if you do not need it for anything is there any reason to do anything with it at all? we have some land here on the other side of the large drainage ditch. i'd like to put some fruit trees back there but it's so far back there and hard to get to right now that it's just growing small shrubs and trees now. i'll need to cut it all back in the next few years if i don't want it to turn into woodland/trees. Also, this is one for you. My blue garlic comes out pink. I was told that this is because my soil is very alkaline (verified by the local nursery lady.) I little vinegar may help. Your thoughts? if you are just going to grow a few plants, i would bring in some good topsoil add some composted cow manure and any other organic materials i could scrounge up. make sure the area is leveled and drainage is good and also make sure there is a wind break to protect against the drying winds. that will solve the poor soil problem and your pH will be corrected. for the rest of the area as you can scrounge free organic materials and chop and drop whatever weeds that grow to get your topsoil developing environment going. as most of the processes of forming topsoil involve moisture it is better to have things piled deep enough to preserve moisture than to scatter your efforts widely. you might also be able to scrounge free fill that is better than what you have. even if you have to do it a few yards at a time... as you get an area covered and able to absorb and store moisture then it will support worm and other soil community creatures (you may need to innoculate the area with soil from a healthy area). these build topsoil and support plant life. your pH will change as more organic matter is added. it's just a matter of scale, what you want to put into it, how much money you want to spend, and how much you're willing to be patient while nature does some work for you. songbird Thank you. I am wondering where to get some cow poop. We have lots of cows about, but I haven't seen anyone selling it. We've had good luck in asking about getting the cow manure and shovel it yourself into a trailer or pick-up. Worked for us for many years. There is a compost called "Black Cow" available at Lowe's. Now that we basically live on the outskirts of Houston, TX that's where we get our manure. Works well. I got in late last night. I put my headset on and cut a four foot wide swath through the weeds. When I am done picking them and they dry out a bit, I am planning on digging them into holes that I will eventually plant zukes in. The smaller you cut the weeds the faster they rot. I usually run over them with the mower two or three times and it gets smaller each time Here is an interesting observation. I think the weeds were always there in my lawn. When the grass dies, the weeds stayed. Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we married. G Thank you! No pickup truck and no lawn mover. Just out of curiosity, how deep do you have to go to keep the little buzzards seeds/root from coming back up? Nut grass actually has a nut at the bottom, that has to come out or another weed grows. Dandelions is a shot at getting it all, we usually stick a finger into the ground and feel for roots then push it out. Every weed has some sort of problem with wanting to live and procreate. Get rough with them. I am planning on planting two more Ponderosa Pines to kep my other one company. Their needles will eventually acidify the soil and provide some ground cover. I grew up in the piney woods of SE Texas, takes many moons to actually acidify soil that way. It is a cheap way though if you're patient. Not raining at the moment, more tomorrow is what the weather folk are saying. Lots of folks in Houston proper and the other cities and towns on the drainage plain are under several feet of water for the second year. So far we're just getting lots of water on the gardens and they are doing well. Sun came out this afternoon and everything growing perked up. I took a lot of "rain" limbs off the pear tree. Blasted thing grow faster the more water they get. George It is raining here today. If yo listen hard, you can hear the weeds growing. Okay, I am exaggerating a bit. Only a bit. :'( |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 04/21/2016 10:14 AM, songbird wrote:
T wrote: ... The dandelions I recognize as I have been trying to kill them for years. Vinegar might not kill them, but it sure screws them something terrible, so it may only be an emotional thing for me. i like dandelions, Ma just mows them down when they start flowering and then about every three to four days, not many make it to seed stage. Cow poop it is! I will see what I can find in a bag. Hope getting it home doesn't stick up my car. it is composted already, doesn't stink like much of anything that i recall, it's very low nutrient organic material, that is why i use wood chips instead, can get them much cheaper/free. can you grow alfalfa anywhere on your property? that's a good source of N to add to a heap for growing zukes. or get a few bags of alfalfa pellets to mix in your piles. for the money i think they're better than composted cow poo. we have another landscaper guy we talked to this morning who will drop off wood chips when he's out this way and has tree work as it saves him from having to haul them somewhere else to dump. for the cost of gas it will be a bargain. i see you mention being able to grow ponderosa pines. the needles from those would be good humus eventually too. they do not acidify nearly as much as some people think. humus itself is mildly acidic. just be happy to scrounge any free organics you can and then let nature do the rest. you'll get some good topsoil eventually. have i shown you this picture before? http://www.anthive.com/flowers/100_6775_Wormies.jpg the light colored soil is our native clay mixed with some sand (if we can get it) and then the dark is what happens when i take some of that native soil and recondition it for a year in the worm buckets. songbird Awesome! I am told by someone to use "Canadian Peatmoss" to acidify the soil quickly. Also, the "someone" said my alkaline sold is hurting my zuke production too. You thoughts? -T You do realize I think you know everything about gardening. Picked all my pull-able weeds yesterday. Soon as the ground dries out a bit from today's rain, I am going to go at the ground huggers with my 20% vinegar and my pump bottle sprayer. http://www.amazon.com/Chapin-20000-1...ilpage_o06_s00 Hope it works as well as pouring a cups of 6% straight on them. Man does that mess up a dandelion. Then I make my ground pots. |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 4/22/2016 7:07 PM, T wrote:
On 04/21/2016 10:38 AM, songbird wrote: T wrote: ... I can grow carp. Well except weeds. Maybe I can coax my purslane to choke out the weeds. It hasn't come up yet this year. put a few carp in your zuke mounds! at the bottom. best fertilizer ever. :) A few of the local fishing pons have goldfish (ugly carp) in them from individuals that forgot to flush them. They mess up the pond pretty bad. Haven't figured out how to catch them yet. purslane grows well here too. starts too late to be a good ground cover (grows here as an annual). mixed with other things it's ok. see if you can get some alfalfa going. songbird I just found my purslane sprouts coming up yesterday! There is a huge debate around these parts that zukes do better without mounds. So far the flat earth crown is winning with a higher yield. What are your thoughts? We've never planted any zukes, etc. on a mound and they always produced, some years heavy, some not. Also, in my garage, I was going to pot my tomatillos and zukes next week. We will have freezing nights still till June. So I put my little pots over by my garage windows and take them out side during the warmth of the day (~65-75F), then take them back in a night. Your thoughts? Thank you for helping me with this! We live where it's hot most of the year so have never had to do that. Sounds like it would work though. If taking the plants out for a walk kills them don't do it anymore. G I am really glad we live where we do, even if we do get Biblical floods occasionally. I DO NOT like cold weather. Had a company in Alaska ask me to come visit and get a job with them. I was there in the winter of 1958 so just said no thank you for that one. |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 4/22/2016 7:08 PM, T wrote:
On 04/20/2016 06:33 PM, George Shirley wrote: On 4/20/2016 7:15 PM, T wrote: On 04/19/2016 02:02 PM, George Shirley wrote: On 4/19/2016 3:04 PM, T wrote: On 04/17/2016 08:25 PM, songbird wrote: T wrote: songbird wrote: if you got time to go around dumping or spraying you got time to pull it or smother it IMO. Hi Songbird, Some blabbing and a question on the bottom for you. Since I let my back lawn go to seed last year in hope of replacing it with a garden, I now have weeds I never knew existed. weeds are free organic matter, if they will grow where nothing else will they can then be chopped and used for other things, like building mulch or topsoil fertility. On of them looks like a small shade tree and it pulls really easily. The rest suck to the ground, like the dandelions that won't die. I have to dig these up with a shovel, which is no easy task considering you can make some really awesome bricks out of my soil. My soil isn't soil anyway. I know the guy who graded my property. My back yard is 20 feet down from top soil. It is basically rocks and decomposed sandstone (like decomposed granite, only way, way uglier). If you strike the ground to hard with a shovel, it literally sparks. How some of these weeks managed to bore their roots down in the stuff, I will never know. And, you can only cut their tops off. Then they grow right back and back and back. So vinegar and soap it is, less the salt. Cussing at them doesn't work either. The back yard is too big to cover in cardboard or plastic, especially with the high winds we have. (Two category one hurricane force winds last January.) Rock gardens work with visqueen. rock gardens are just fine ways to cover an area. we have plenty of those here ourselves. also, if you do not need it for anything is there any reason to do anything with it at all? we have some land here on the other side of the large drainage ditch. i'd like to put some fruit trees back there but it's so far back there and hard to get to right now that it's just growing small shrubs and trees now. i'll need to cut it all back in the next few years if i don't want it to turn into woodland/trees. Also, this is one for you. My blue garlic comes out pink. I was told that this is because my soil is very alkaline (verified by the local nursery lady.) I little vinegar may help. Your thoughts? if you are just going to grow a few plants, i would bring in some good topsoil add some composted cow manure and any other organic materials i could scrounge up. make sure the area is leveled and drainage is good and also make sure there is a wind break to protect against the drying winds. that will solve the poor soil problem and your pH will be corrected. for the rest of the area as you can scrounge free organic materials and chop and drop whatever weeds that grow to get your topsoil developing environment going. as most of the processes of forming topsoil involve moisture it is better to have things piled deep enough to preserve moisture than to scatter your efforts widely. you might also be able to scrounge free fill that is better than what you have. even if you have to do it a few yards at a time... as you get an area covered and able to absorb and store moisture then it will support worm and other soil community creatures (you may need to innoculate the area with soil from a healthy area). these build topsoil and support plant life. your pH will change as more organic matter is added. it's just a matter of scale, what you want to put into it, how much money you want to spend, and how much you're willing to be patient while nature does some work for you. songbird Thank you. I am wondering where to get some cow poop. We have lots of cows about, but I haven't seen anyone selling it. We've had good luck in asking about getting the cow manure and shovel it yourself into a trailer or pick-up. Worked for us for many years. There is a compost called "Black Cow" available at Lowe's. Now that we basically live on the outskirts of Houston, TX that's where we get our manure. Works well. I got in late last night. I put my headset on and cut a four foot wide swath through the weeds. When I am done picking them and they dry out a bit, I am planning on digging them into holes that I will eventually plant zukes in. The smaller you cut the weeds the faster they rot. I usually run over them with the mower two or three times and it gets smaller each time Here is an interesting observation. I think the weeds were always there in my lawn. When the grass dies, the weeds stayed. Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we married. G Thank you! No pickup truck and no lawn mover. Just out of curiosity, how deep do you have to go to keep the little buzzards seeds/root from coming back up? Nut grass actually has a nut at the bottom, that has to come out or another weed grows. Dandelions is a shot at getting it all, we usually stick a finger into the ground and feel for roots then push it out. Every weed has some sort of problem with wanting to live and procreate. Get rough with them. I am planning on planting two more Ponderosa Pines to kep my other one company. Their needles will eventually acidify the soil and provide some ground cover. I grew up in the piney woods of SE Texas, takes many moons to actually acidify soil that way. It is a cheap way though if you're patient. Not raining at the moment, more tomorrow is what the weather folk are saying. Lots of folks in Houston proper and the other cities and towns on the drainage plain are under several feet of water for the second year. So far we're just getting lots of water on the gardens and they are doing well. Sun came out this afternoon and everything growing perked up. I took a lot of "rain" limbs off the pear tree. Blasted thing grow faster the more water they get. George It is raining here today. If yo listen hard, you can hear the weeds growing. Okay, I am exaggerating a bit. Only a bit. :'( If they start looking in the windows, RUN! |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 4/22/2016 8:26 PM, George Shirley wrote:
On 4/22/2016 7:08 PM, T wrote: On 04/20/2016 06:33 PM, George Shirley wrote: On 4/20/2016 7:15 PM, T wrote: On 04/19/2016 02:02 PM, George Shirley wrote: On 4/19/2016 3:04 PM, T wrote: On 04/17/2016 08:25 PM, songbird wrote: T wrote: songbird wrote: if you got time to go around dumping or spraying you got time to pull it or smother it IMO. Hi Songbird, Some blabbing and a question on the bottom for you. Since I let my back lawn go to seed last year in hope of replacing it with a garden, I now have weeds I never knew existed. weeds are free organic matter, if they will grow where nothing else will they can then be chopped and used for other things, like building mulch or topsoil fertility. On of them looks like a small shade tree and it pulls really easily. The rest suck to the ground, like the dandelions that won't die. I have to dig these up with a shovel, which is no easy task considering you can make some really awesome bricks out of my soil. My soil isn't soil anyway. I know the guy who graded my property. My back yard is 20 feet down from top soil. It is basically rocks and decomposed sandstone (like decomposed granite, only way, way uglier). If you strike the ground to hard with a shovel, it literally sparks. How some of these weeks managed to bore their roots down in the stuff, I will never know. And, you can only cut their tops off. Then they grow right back and back and back. So vinegar and soap it is, less the salt. Cussing at them doesn't work either. The back yard is too big to cover in cardboard or plastic, especially with the high winds we have. (Two category one hurricane force winds last January.) Rock gardens work with visqueen. rock gardens are just fine ways to cover an area. we have plenty of those here ourselves. also, if you do not need it for anything is there any reason to do anything with it at all? we have some land here on the other side of the large drainage ditch. i'd like to put some fruit trees back there but it's so far back there and hard to get to right now that it's just growing small shrubs and trees now. i'll need to cut it all back in the next few years if i don't want it to turn into woodland/trees. Also, this is one for you. My blue garlic comes out pink. I was told that this is because my soil is very alkaline (verified by the local nursery lady.) I little vinegar may help. Your thoughts? if you are just going to grow a few plants, i would bring in some good topsoil add some composted cow manure and any other organic materials i could scrounge up. make sure the area is leveled and drainage is good and also make sure there is a wind break to protect against the drying winds. that will solve the poor soil problem and your pH will be corrected. for the rest of the area as you can scrounge free organic materials and chop and drop whatever weeds that grow to get your topsoil developing environment going. as most of the processes of forming topsoil involve moisture it is better to have things piled deep enough to preserve moisture than to scatter your efforts widely. you might also be able to scrounge free fill that is better than what you have. even if you have to do it a few yards at a time... as you get an area covered and able to absorb and store moisture then it will support worm and other soil community creatures (you may need to innoculate the area with soil from a healthy area). these build topsoil and support plant life. your pH will change as more organic matter is added. it's just a matter of scale, what you want to put into it, how much money you want to spend, and how much you're willing to be patient while nature does some work for you. songbird Thank you. I am wondering where to get some cow poop. We have lots of cows about, but I haven't seen anyone selling it. We've had good luck in asking about getting the cow manure and shovel it yourself into a trailer or pick-up. Worked for us for many years. There is a compost called "Black Cow" available at Lowe's. Now that we basically live on the outskirts of Houston, TX that's where we get our manure. Works well. I got in late last night. I put my headset on and cut a four foot wide swath through the weeds. When I am done picking them and they dry out a bit, I am planning on digging them into holes that I will eventually plant zukes in. The smaller you cut the weeds the faster they rot. I usually run over them with the mower two or three times and it gets smaller each time Here is an interesting observation. I think the weeds were always there in my lawn. When the grass dies, the weeds stayed. Weeds are much hardier than grass. We are pestered with dandelions and nut grass, takes patience and finger strength to get the !@#$% things out of the ground. Wife enjoys it so I let her take the lead on weed pulling. She lived further out in the country than I did before we married. G Thank you! No pickup truck and no lawn mover. Just out of curiosity, how deep do you have to go to keep the little buzzards seeds/root from coming back up? Nut grass actually has a nut at the bottom, that has to come out or another weed grows. Dandelions is a shot at getting it all, we usually stick a finger into the ground and feel for roots then push it out. Every weed has some sort of problem with wanting to live and procreate. Get rough with them. I am planning on planting two more Ponderosa Pines to kep my other one company. Their needles will eventually acidify the soil and provide some ground cover. I grew up in the piney woods of SE Texas, takes many moons to actually acidify soil that way. It is a cheap way though if you're patient. Not raining at the moment, more tomorrow is what the weather folk are saying. Lots of folks in Houston proper and the other cities and towns on the drainage plain are under several feet of water for the second year. So far we're just getting lots of water on the gardens and they are doing well. Sun came out this afternoon and everything growing perked up. I took a lot of "rain" limbs off the pear tree. Blasted thing grow faster the more water they get. George It is raining here today. If yo listen hard, you can hear the weeds growing. Okay, I am exaggerating a bit. Only a bit. :'( If they start looking in the windows, RUN! |
vinegar and disk soap weed killer is not working
On 04/22/2016 06:26 PM, George Shirley wrote:
It is raining here today. If yo listen hard, you can hear the weeds growing. Okay, I am exaggerating a bit. Only a bit. :'( If they start looking in the windows, RUN! and say "you called me a what?" and/or "my parents are to married!". |
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