In article , Larry Blanchard
wrote:

In article ,
says...
that's beautiful. thank you.

Yes it is. But EV doesn't have a hedge full of yellow jackets and an
allergic wife - I do :-).

I've tried traps and spray cans - Orkin is getting called Monday.

First off, I'm curious, does Orkin come out after midnight? Because if the
nest is assaulted in the daylight hours, most of the wasps won't be in it,
& it will take ghastly amounts of extra-poisonous toxins sprayed more
places than just the nest to get rid of them, & if there is ever going to
be a good chance of anyone getting stung by generally-innocuous wasps, it
will be while the Orkin dude is screwing around the nest.

Yellowjackets are gardeners' friends, as they eat garden-chomping insects.
A single yellow-jacket nest in a garden will be cleaning out aphids,
leafhoppers, beetle larvae, flies, & all manner of garden-munchers at a
fantastic rate. They also disperse trillium seeds, which imitate a meat or
insect odor that causes yellowjackets to cart away the seeds & drop them
elsewhere when they figure out it isn't meat.

Paperwasps abandon their nest after a single use, so their nesting
presence is temporary. If it WERE necessary to move one it could be
wrapped in plastic at night & carted away, as none of the colony will be
outside the nest at night; poisoning would not be necessary.

I've known many people who had serious even life-threatening allergies to
bees or wasps, but none thought the best way to deal with it was to poison
the garden & inevitably their pets, their kids, themselves, & all the
beneficial insects in the vicinity. My grampa had a bee allergy sufficient
that he kept a kit handy in case he was stung, but that didn't keep
great-grampa from keeping honeybees, & while my life overlapped grampa's,
he was never stung that I knew of & never had to use the kit.

Wasps don't have to be nesting in the garden to be in the garden; you'd
have to poison all the surrounding yards if their mere presence incited
such a phobia. The best way to deal with them is personal calmness. You
could offer wasps a greasy chunck of fried chicken & let them crawl all
over your hand in great numbers & the happy little buggers would never
sting you (they might accidentally nibble you if your fingers are greasy
enough to be mistaken for the meat). You could brush them off your
shoulder or off your sandwich with the back of your hand & they wouldn't
sting, though they might dart over your hand to get back on the sandwich.

At a recent lakefront gathering for a Golden Anniversary party, the
primary picnic area had a large colony of ground-wasps nearby. Grandkids &
great-grandkids of all ages were running around; people were eating
shitloads of meat; & the wasps were truly a nuisance trying to get their
share of the food. But even with a dozen rowdy kids running about, &
everyone's hands shooing wasps away from food, not one person was stung, &
the only complaint became that meat-eaters had to go indoors to finish
their meals in peace. I'd frankly still like to get rid of that particular
nest if meat was going to be eaten around there regularly, but it would
never be an allergy issue because those critters wouldn't even sting the
kids who were testing the limits of wasp docility.

They're not highly aggressive. I have lived around yellow jacket nests for
half a century & have never been stung by a paperwasp or ground
yellowjacket. I was once stung by a mud-dobber, but that was because I
leaned against it by accident & it was trying to get loose; mud-dobber
wasps ordinarily won't sting under any circumstance, their stinger being
for hunting much more than defense; they don't even defend their little
mud-nests. As a kid I once laid down under a swarm after a paperwasp nest
had had rocks chucked at it. Several of us kids lay perfectly still &
watched the swarm. At their angriest still it was a cinch not to got
stung.

Ground-dwelling & paper-nest wasps are only aggressive when their nests
are mucked with, so the best way to deal with them is by marking the
location noticeably & giving them some space. Nearly all wasp attacks are
the fault of people attacking the nest, even with freezing aerosols &
pesticides the wasps can still manage to be defensive as death is not
instantaneous. When their nest isn't mucked with, they're very easy to
live with.

There are two understandable reasons to not tolerate a nest; allergy is
not one of them since there'll still be plenty of wasps from elsewhere
nearby. But if a paper nest is built right outside the door, the mere
opening & closing of the door could make the colony feel threatened, so it
would have to be zapped at night with freeze-spray, wrapped in plastic, &
taken away (we had one on our front porch for a season however & the wasps
were so little trouble we failed to notice the papernest on the ceiling
until after the season was over & the nest was abandoned). The second
reason they might not be tolerated is for nesting right by a bar-b-cue or
picnic site. Although not apt to sting they can be so happy about all the
meat people are bringing to them that they will descend dozens at a time
onto every picnic plate & make it hard to eat in peace. If becoming
vegetarian isn't an option, then the picnic-site nest won't be very
tolerable.

But if one is lucky enough to have a nest in a corner of the garden where
one needn't be digging, or high in a tree where the colony is never
threatened, it should be cause for thanks, as they are assisting the
garden every minute they are active.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

I don't know what part of the planet you live in, but in the Midwest here, the
yellow jackets can sometimes be a big problem. Haven't seen many this year,
but previously, they went after my peaches. I had one good sting when I tried
to pick up
a fallen peach on the ground, and it took a lot of antihistamine to quiet that
one down.

EV also doesn't seem to be growing fruit, or she would not be so complacent
about
apple maggots, plum curcullio's, etc. The only time I stop spraying is when
the blossoms are out, since I don't want to kill my pollinators (bees).

Sherwin Dubren

paghat wrote:

In article , Larry Blanchard
wrote:

In article ,
says...
that's beautiful. thank you.

Yes it is. But EV doesn't have a hedge full of yellow jackets and an
allergic wife - I do :-).

I've tried traps and spray cans - Orkin is getting called Monday.

First off, I'm curious, does Orkin come out after midnight? Because if the
nest is assaulted in the daylight hours, most of the wasps won't be in it,
& it will take ghastly amounts of extra-poisonous toxins sprayed more
places than just the nest to get rid of them, & if there is ever going to
be a good chance of anyone getting stung by generally-innocuous wasps, it
will be while the Orkin dude is screwing around the nest.

Yellowjackets are gardeners' friends, as they eat garden-chomping insects.
A single yellow-jacket nest in a garden will be cleaning out aphids,
leafhoppers, beetle larvae, flies, & all manner of garden-munchers at a
fantastic rate. They also disperse trillium seeds, which imitate a meat or
insect odor that causes yellowjackets to cart away the seeds & drop them
elsewhere when they figure out it isn't meat.

Paperwasps abandon their nest after a single use, so their nesting
presence is temporary. If it WERE necessary to move one it could be
wrapped in plastic at night & carted away, as none of the colony will be
outside the nest at night; poisoning would not be necessary.

I've known many people who had serious even life-threatening allergies to
bees or wasps, but none thought the best way to deal with it was to poison
the garden & inevitably their pets, their kids, themselves, & all the
beneficial insects in the vicinity. My grampa had a bee allergy sufficient
that he kept a kit handy in case he was stung, but that didn't keep
great-grampa from keeping honeybees, & while my life overlapped grampa's,
he was never stung that I knew of & never had to use the kit.

Wasps don't have to be nesting in the garden to be in the garden; you'd
have to poison all the surrounding yards if their mere presence incited
such a phobia. The best way to deal with them is personal calmness. You
could offer wasps a greasy chunck of fried chicken & let them crawl all
over your hand in great numbers & the happy little buggers would never
sting you (they might accidentally nibble you if your fingers are greasy
enough to be mistaken for the meat). You could brush them off your
shoulder or off your sandwich with the back of your hand & they wouldn't
sting, though they might dart over your hand to get back on the sandwich.

At a recent lakefront gathering for a Golden Anniversary party, the
primary picnic area had a large colony of ground-wasps nearby. Grandkids &
great-grandkids of all ages were running around; people were eating
shitloads of meat; & the wasps were truly a nuisance trying to get their
share of the food. But even with a dozen rowdy kids running about, &
everyone's hands shooing wasps away from food, not one person was stung, &
the only complaint became that meat-eaters had to go indoors to finish
their meals in peace. I'd frankly still like to get rid of that particular
nest if meat was going to be eaten around there regularly, but it would
never be an allergy issue because those critters wouldn't even sting the
kids who were testing the limits of wasp docility.

They're not highly aggressive. I have lived around yellow jacket nests for
half a century & have never been stung by a paperwasp or ground
yellowjacket. I was once stung by a mud-dobber, but that was because I
leaned against it by accident & it was trying to get loose; mud-dobber
wasps ordinarily won't sting under any circumstance, their stinger being
for hunting much more than defense; they don't even defend their little
mud-nests. As a kid I once laid down under a swarm after a paperwasp nest
had had rocks chucked at it. Several of us kids lay perfectly still &
watched the swarm. At their angriest still it was a cinch not to got
stung.

Ground-dwelling & paper-nest wasps are only aggressive when their nests
are mucked with, so the best way to deal with them is by marking the
location noticeably & giving them some space. Nearly all wasp attacks are
the fault of people attacking the nest, even with freezing aerosols &
pesticides the wasps can still manage to be defensive as death is not
instantaneous. When their nest isn't mucked with, they're very easy to
live with.

There are two understandable reasons to not tolerate a nest; allergy is
not one of them since there'll still be plenty of wasps from elsewhere
nearby. But if a paper nest is built right outside the door, the mere
opening & closing of the door could make the colony feel threatened, so it
would have to be zapped at night with freeze-spray, wrapped in plastic, &
taken away (we had one on our front porch for a season however & the wasps
were so little trouble we failed to notice the papernest on the ceiling
until after the season was over & the nest was abandoned). The second
reason they might not be tolerated is for nesting right by a bar-b-cue or
picnic site. Although not apt to sting they can be so happy about all the
meat people are bringing to them that they will descend dozens at a time
onto every picnic plate & make it hard to eat in peace. If becoming
vegetarian isn't an option, then the picnic-site nest won't be very
tolerable.

But if one is lucky enough to have a nest in a corner of the garden where
one needn't be digging, or high in a tree where the colony is never
threatened, it should be cause for thanks, as they are assisting the
garden every minute they are active.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

In article , sherwindu
wrote:

I don't know what part of the planet you live in, but in the Midwest here, the
yellow jackets can sometimes be a big problem. Haven't seen many this year,
but previously, they went after my peaches. I had one good sting when I tried
to pick up
a fallen peach on the ground, and it took a lot of antihistamine to quiet that
one down.

EV also doesn't seem to be growing fruit, or she would not be so complacent
about
apple maggots, plum curcullio's, etc. The only time I stop spraying is when
the blossoms are out, since I don't want to kill my pollinators (bees).

Sherwin Dubren

More & more orchards are going organic. Clearly your love-affair with
deadly toxins all over your fruit isn't necessary, so yr just foolin'
yourself to adhere to slogans of the 1950s when DDT was heralded as the
savior of the planet. One of the things the organic orchards encourage is
a healthy wasp population, & don't worry too much that wasps do also feed
on fruit that has already fallen to the ground & burst open. It's true,
though, that chemical-dependent non-organic gardens so screw up the
balance in their orchards that they end up with MORE harmful insects &
thus need MORE toxic chemicals.

A study conducted by Washington State University from 1994 to 1999, &
reported in NATURE & elsewhere, showed conclusively that orchard
productivity was greater in organic farms than for those which depended on
pesticides & other chemicals. Furthermore, in taste tests for the organic
& non-organic, the organic fruits were the hands-down winners.

In the WSU studies, the organic group did not use synthetic pesticides or
fertilizer, but made use of organic compost, mulch, pheromone-mating
disruption of harmful insects, Bacillus thuringiensis, & hand-thinning of
fruit. The non-organic farms used a conventional array of synthetic
fertilizers & pesticides (inclusive of herbicides) & chemical fruit
thinners.

The study concluded that organic orchards ranked #1 for environmental AND
economic sustainability. Larger crops sold for more money from the organic
farmers; the non-organic farmers not only ended up with smaller & inferior
harvests that earned them less money, but they had higher costs from all
those ghastly chemicals.

A similar study on organic vineyards was conducted by Cornell University.
One of their organic techniques (to control harmful insects) was to
maximize the population of predatory wasps. Similar studies in Vermont
corn crops, & Idaho potato crops, found organic methods of pest control
completely effective. Yet another WSU study of pear orchards found that
harmful insects in the orchard were controlable by not mowing the
surrounding fields so often, as vibrant meadows were attractive habitats
for such beneficial insects as, ahem, wasps.

As a wonderful bonus, the organic farmers all report that insect pests
become fewer year by year -- whyich is not true for the chemical-reliant
planet-poisoners.

That's just the science conducted in the field with real orchards, not one
person freaked out about wasps & convinced the wasps will get all their
fruit if the poisons are insufficient.

So when I hear someone claiming the wasps are so horrid they have no
choice but to poison their orchards, then pretending that stopping for a
couple weeks while there are flowers is all it takes to not harm bees, I
don't give them much credibility.

This is also why "conventional" chemical-reliant orchards are selling out
& letting their land be carved up for development, but ORGANIC orchards
are the fastest growing segment segment of US, Canadian, & European
agriculture.

So to paraphrase you, I don't know where on the planet yhou've been, but
not in a healthy orchard lately. And thanks for the warning that you
harvest your peaches off the ground -- that'd make yours one of the e-coli
orchards besides toxic as all hell!

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

Hey Rat Girl,
I am sorry I don't belong to your church of the organics. I have visited organic
orchards, and see a lot of spoiled fruit on the ground. I have tried organic
sprays, and from my experience, they don't work. I loose very little fruit to
insect damage.
There is no good organic spray for Apple Maggot, etc. The organic sprays are a pain

to use. For example, Surround leaves an ugly film on the fruit, which would make
insect damage almost preferable. Organic sprays and other preventatives have a long
way to go to get me to use them. Having a small backyard orchard, I value ALL of my
fruit, and am not willing to sacrifice a good portion of it on the alter of
organics.

Sherwin D.

paghat wrote:

In article , sherwindu
wrote:

I don't know what part of the planet you live in, but in the Midwest here, the
yellow jackets can sometimes be a big problem. Haven't seen many this year,
but previously, they went after my peaches. I had one good sting when I tried
to pick up
a fallen peach on the ground, and it took a lot of antihistamine to quiet that
one down.

EV also doesn't seem to be growing fruit, or she would not be so complacent
about
apple maggots, plum curcullio's, etc. The only time I stop spraying is when
the blossoms are out, since I don't want to kill my pollinators (bees).

Sherwin Dubren

More & more orchards are going organic.

And plenty of them are going out of business.

Clearly your love-affair with
deadly toxins all over your fruit isn't necessary, so yr just foolin'
yourself to adhere to slogans of the 1950s when DDT was heralded as the
savior of the planet. One of the things the organic orchards encourage is
a healthy wasp population, & don't worry too much that wasps do also feed
on fruit that has already fallen to the ground & burst open. It's true,
though, that chemical-dependent non-organic gardens so screw up the
balance in their orchards that they end up with MORE harmful insects &
thus need MORE toxic chemicals.

You are in a dream world if you think the helpful insects can stop these pests.
These wasps do not go after my fallen fruit, as I do a good job of cleaning that
up. They punch holes in the fruit on the tree, and go at it.



A study conducted by Washington State University from 1994 to 1999, &
reported in NATURE & elsewhere, showed conclusively that orchard
productivity was greater in organic farms than for those which depended on
pesticides & other chemicals.

I don't believe it. I personally know organic orchards where they loose a
good portion of their fruit.

Furthermore, in taste tests for the organic
& non-organic, the organic fruits were the hands-down winners.

How can pesticides effect the taste of the fruit? On the contrary, some
organic orchards are limiting their selection of fruit to varieties with more
resistance to pests and fungicides. However, these varieties are not the
very best tasting of those available. Unfortunately, it seems like the best
tasting fruit has the most susceptibility.





In the WSU studies, the organic group did not use synthetic pesticides or
fertilizer, but made use of organic compost, mulch, pheromone-mating
disruption of harmful insects, Bacillus thuringiensis, & hand-thinning of
fruit. The non-organic farms used a conventional array of synthetic
fertilizers & pesticides (inclusive of herbicides) & chemical fruit
thinners.

The study concluded that organic orchards ranked #1 for environmental AND
economic sustainability. Larger crops sold for more money from the organic
farmers; the non-organic farmers not only ended up with smaller & inferior
harvests that earned them less money, but they had higher costs from all
those ghastly chemicals.

Thats because the public is being bambozeled into thinking that organically
grown fruit is so much more healthful that the consumer winds up paying
sometimes double the price for it. Most of these pesticides are burn't off
by the sun. Also, anyone with brains will wash all the fruit they grow or
buy, even if it claims to be organically grown. I find the organically grown
fruits and vegetables in my stores is not worth the premium prices asked. I
just do a good job of washing it. The fruit I grow is controlled so that I don't

spray trees that are due for picking in the next few weeks.



A similar study on organic vineyards was conducted by Cornell University.
One of their organic techniques (to control harmful insects) was to
maximize the population of predatory wasps. Similar studies in Vermont
corn crops, & Idaho potato crops, found organic methods of pest control
completely effective. Yet another WSU study of pear orchards found that
harmful insects in the orchard were controlable by not mowing the
surrounding fields so often, as vibrant meadows were attractive habitats
for such beneficial insects as, ahem, wasps.

If you think that nature will take care of things for us, just go into a wooded
area where you will find wild fruit trees, or those from a deserted orchard, and
look at the fruit condition. It is usually attacked like crazy.



As a wonderful bonus, the organic farmers all report that insect pests
become fewer year by year -- whyich is not true for the chemical-reliant
planet-poisoners.

Not in my neighborhood.



That's just the science conducted in the field with real orchards, not one
person freaked out about wasps & convinced the wasps will get all their
fruit if the poisons are insufficient.

It's not just the wasps that are the problem. In fact they are usually one of
the lesser pests. You will be happy to know I use 'organic' traps to catch
them with apple juice as a lure. See, I am not close minded about organics,
but I think they can only solve part of the problem.



So when I hear someone claiming the wasps are so horrid they have no
choice but to poison their orchards, then pretending that stopping for a
couple weeks while there are flowers is all it takes to not harm bees, I
don't give them much credibility.

The bees are most susceptible to harm when they are feeding on the pollen
from fruit blossoms. I have never found any dead bees around my trees.



This is also why "conventional" chemical-reliant orchards are selling out
& letting their land be carved up for development, but ORGANIC orchards
are the fastest growing segment segment of US, Canadian, & European
agriculture.

Possibly because there are big bucks now in selling overpriced organic products.



So to paraphrase you, I don't know where on the planet yhou've been, but
not in a healthy orchard lately. And thanks for the warning that you
harvest your peaches off the ground -- that'd make yours one of the e-coli
orchards besides toxic as all hell!

I will match my home orchard any day to yours, because there are other
ways to contaminate the area, like not keeping it clean.



-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

sherwindu wrote:

I don't know what part of the planet you live in, but in the Midwest here, the
yellow jackets can sometimes be a big problem. Haven't seen many this year,
but previously, they went after my peaches. I had one good sting when I tried
to pick up
a fallen peach on the ground, and it took a lot of antihistamine to quiet that
one down.

EV also doesn't seem to be growing fruit, or she would not be so complacent
about apple maggots, plum curcullio's, etc.

Hang on there! I'm actually proactive in a natural kind of way. I'm new to fruit
trees, but have been gardening organically for more decades than I care to admit.
My garden usually does quite well with a minimum of the most benign possible
intervention.

My plums are not great this year, true, but most other things have done
fabulously well, despite, or because of, the cool, wet growing season. Why not
the plums? If I can figure out what went wrong, I can take measures to try to
prevent it from happening again.

Reading everyone's suggestions pointed up causes that weren't uppermost in my
mind. For instance, Paghat mentioned nearby farms. I don't think they're close
enough, but it reminded me that there's is a huge, overgrown vacant lot 100 yards
away that was partially bulldozed when a structure was removed. The property has
some apple and crabapple trees in horrible condition, as well as all kinds of
berry brambles in bad shape. The destruction of their habitat might have lead to
some of the bad bugs migrating.

There's an old Italian guy just up the road who had a stroke about 5 years ago
and can't maintain his fruit trees. His fruit probably rots on the ground.

Both of these factors could explain some of the problem.

The weather has also affected the insects. Populations vary with every growing
season. Every year I try to spot as many of the bugs as I can. This year there
have been more sawflies, plant bugs, plum and black vine curculios, pear slugs, a
few types of hoppers, and ladybugs than usual. I've seen fewer varieties of
butterflies, and fewer individuals ... even cabbage whites, but there are a fair
number of moths of various kinds ... including fruit moths, and Iris borers. I
guess it's my own fault for having so many night flowering plants. ;-) Other
insect numbers and diversity seem to be about normal for here, though maturity
cycles are delayed for most. I look for population patterns.

My attitude is that that if I maintain good gardening practises, and take the
necessary precautions, next year will be better for the plum. There are things
that I can do, but other things are beyond my control.

I'm within spitting distance of a golf course, and they spray gawd knows what.
Several of my neighbours hire companies to spray toxics so that their lawns will
be weed and grub free. Luckily, some others are too cheap, and some have even
come around to a more organic approach after seeing my garden.

I keep a photo journal of the garden every year. I'll be putting August up in the
next few days, but here's July:
http://home.ca.inter.net/~stevedor/EGarden3.html

Happy gardening,

EV





The only time I stop spraying is when
the blossoms are out, since I don't want to kill my pollinators (bees).

Sherwin Dubren

paghat wrote:

In article , Larry Blanchard
wrote:

In article ,
says...
that's beautiful. thank you.

Yes it is. But EV doesn't have a hedge full of yellow jackets and an
allergic wife - I do :-).

I've tried traps and spray cans - Orkin is getting called Monday.

First off, I'm curious, does Orkin come out after midnight? Because if the
nest is assaulted in the daylight hours, most of the wasps won't be in it,
& it will take ghastly amounts of extra-poisonous toxins sprayed more
places than just the nest to get rid of them, & if there is ever going to
be a good chance of anyone getting stung by generally-innocuous wasps, it
will be while the Orkin dude is screwing around the nest.

Yellowjackets are gardeners' friends, as they eat garden-chomping insects.
A single yellow-jacket nest in a garden will be cleaning out aphids,
leafhoppers, beetle larvae, flies, & all manner of garden-munchers at a
fantastic rate. They also disperse trillium seeds, which imitate a meat or
insect odor that causes yellowjackets to cart away the seeds & drop them
elsewhere when they figure out it isn't meat.

Paperwasps abandon their nest after a single use, so their nesting
presence is temporary. If it WERE necessary to move one it could be
wrapped in plastic at night & carted away, as none of the colony will be
outside the nest at night; poisoning would not be necessary.

I've known many people who had serious even life-threatening allergies to
bees or wasps, but none thought the best way to deal with it was to poison
the garden & inevitably their pets, their kids, themselves, & all the
beneficial insects in the vicinity. My grampa had a bee allergy sufficient
that he kept a kit handy in case he was stung, but that didn't keep
great-grampa from keeping honeybees, & while my life overlapped grampa's,
he was never stung that I knew of & never had to use the kit.

Wasps don't have to be nesting in the garden to be in the garden; you'd
have to poison all the surrounding yards if their mere presence incited
such a phobia. The best way to deal with them is personal calmness. You
could offer wasps a greasy chunck of fried chicken & let them crawl all
over your hand in great numbers & the happy little buggers would never
sting you (they might accidentally nibble you if your fingers are greasy
enough to be mistaken for the meat). You could brush them off your
shoulder or off your sandwich with the back of your hand & they wouldn't
sting, though they might dart over your hand to get back on the sandwich.

At a recent lakefront gathering for a Golden Anniversary party, the
primary picnic area had a large colony of ground-wasps nearby. Grandkids &
great-grandkids of all ages were running around; people were eating
shitloads of meat; & the wasps were truly a nuisance trying to get their
share of the food. But even with a dozen rowdy kids running about, &
everyone's hands shooing wasps away from food, not one person was stung, &
the only complaint became that meat-eaters had to go indoors to finish
their meals in peace. I'd frankly still like to get rid of that particular
nest if meat was going to be eaten around there regularly, but it would
never be an allergy issue because those critters wouldn't even sting the
kids who were testing the limits of wasp docility.

They're not highly aggressive. I have lived around yellow jacket nests for
half a century & have never been stung by a paperwasp or ground
yellowjacket. I was once stung by a mud-dobber, but that was because I
leaned against it by accident & it was trying to get loose; mud-dobber
wasps ordinarily won't sting under any circumstance, their stinger being
for hunting much more than defense; they don't even defend their little
mud-nests. As a kid I once laid down under a swarm after a paperwasp nest
had had rocks chucked at it. Several of us kids lay perfectly still &
watched the swarm. At their angriest still it was a cinch not to got
stung.

Ground-dwelling & paper-nest wasps are only aggressive when their nests
are mucked with, so the best way to deal with them is by marking the
location noticeably & giving them some space. Nearly all wasp attacks are
the fault of people attacking the nest, even with freezing aerosols &
pesticides the wasps can still manage to be defensive as death is not
instantaneous. When their nest isn't mucked with, they're very easy to
live with.

There are two understandable reasons to not tolerate a nest; allergy is
not one of them since there'll still be plenty of wasps from elsewhere
nearby. But if a paper nest is built right outside the door, the mere
opening & closing of the door could make the colony feel threatened, so it
would have to be zapped at night with freeze-spray, wrapped in plastic, &
taken away (we had one on our front porch for a season however & the wasps
were so little trouble we failed to notice the papernest on the ceiling
until after the season was over & the nest was abandoned). The second
reason they might not be tolerated is for nesting right by a bar-b-cue or
picnic site. Although not apt to sting they can be so happy about all the
meat people are bringing to them that they will descend dozens at a time
onto every picnic plate & make it hard to eat in peace. If becoming
vegetarian isn't an option, then the picnic-site nest won't be very
tolerable.

But if one is lucky enough to have a nest in a corner of the garden where
one needn't be digging, or high in a tree where the colony is never
threatened, it should be cause for thanks, as they are assisting the
garden every minute they are active.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com