Hi Bob,

don't know if you'll read this (old thread), but I've started increasing the
KH.. hope to get it up to at least 3 or may be 4... and then use pH down to
regulate the pH a bit (CO2 is in the future for more semi-permanent
solution.. but I just have to get over the activation energy to deal with
the yeast mess :-P

yeah. i know about the phosphate-based pH adjusters. will avoid it... (got
a small bottle of pH down. if that works eventually, I'll buy a bigger
bottle...)

Wasn't sure if pH Stable was baking soda or some other carbonate source, but
thought I'd pay extra just to see... so far, added 1.5tsp of the darn thing
in my 37G and the kH has not budged!!! (stuck between 1 and 2). I guess the
difference is when I put 1 drop, the color is darker than it was before.. so
it's easier to see the color change (before I had to look from the top of
the tube to discern color change). I guess KH is going up.. but SLOOOWLY
and I must have started out really low. pH did seem to creep up a bit, but
still within the normal fluctuation level.. I'm letting it settle 24hrs
before I add more pH Stable or change pH...

and no. the test kit does work. I checked.. if I add a speckle of the
stuff directly into the test tube, the color changes instantly.. so.. I
guess the tank is super-deficient of carbonates.

I'm trying to think of a definitive way to discern whether Kent's pH stable
is sodium bicarbonate or not... I guess I can check the ultimate pH of the
solution and compare.. (baking soda is about 8.2 or something, i think..)
that may be the easiest thing to check... sorry.. I'm just thinking out
loud. (if so, what a waste of money.. oh well)..

linda

"Robert Flory" wrote in message
gy.com...
Mid posted
"linda mar" wrote in message
...

SNIP

I don't have the means to read CO2 yet.. I was contemplating doing DIY
thing until I lost all 4 otos in a span of 2 days and went into
"coronor's
investigation" mode.. (and was told by one LFS that they are quite
sensitive
to pH changes.. and this is what is prompting all my interest)

Sure you do, assuming you've not used phosphate buffers. In the normal
tank
which is bicarbonate buffered the relationship between pH, CO2 and kH is a
direct one. add CO2, pH will drop. add bicarbonate pH will rise. See
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm Just measure the
pH
and kH and plug the number in. Or get out the slide rule and use the
included formula. I've got the page in my favorites for use when I want
to
check CO2 levels.

assuming nothing else is wrong with the tank other than the pH drifts (I
have few bloated danios that I'm not sure what to make of them), I
intend
to
start adding nitrates since the tank reads zero... my fish aren't
polluting
the tank fast enough for the plants! (what a concept)

I have to add nitrates to a 29 gallon platy tank that has about double the
inch/gallon fish load. But then the tank is overgrown with cabomba,
elodea/egeria and java moss. Ofcourse I trim about 6" a week, wonder what
I'd have to do if I had more than 20 watts of light. I tossed a half a
bucket of cabomba out from my 55 today, it is a super low light tank.

i haven't gotten green water, but I do have haze.. seems to come and go
depending on how much sunlight it gets during the sunset hours.. (like,
if
I
forget to close the drapes etc., then the water seems more hazy).

I guess I'll try some experiment (adding baking soda, and also ph down
to
see how they correlate to pH change..) before I start dumping stuff into
the
main tank! but seems like upping the KH and stabilizing pH a bit might
be
desirable for the fish.. then i'll tend to the plants :-)

linda

Be careful that you don't use phosphate based buffers. I think pH down is
just acid, probably sulfuric. baking soda will give you a pretty quick
rise
in pH.

Bob

Increasing the kH is simple to do with baking soda. Use 1/4 teaspoon per 50
gal a day untill the result is found.

decreasing pH with a phosphate buffer or weak acid is NOT appropriate with
planted tanks. The correct way to buffer the solution is using a pH
controller to pH 6.8 with a pressurized canister. This can be expensive
initially (250 usd ) but is maintainance free. I messed with yeast and sugar
initially but got varied results.

Weak acids will drive the alkalinity out of solution as co2, and buffer will
grow an interesting mess.



"linda mar" wrote in message
...
Hi Bob,

don't know if you'll read this (old thread), but I've started increasing
the
KH.. hope to get it up to at least 3 or may be 4... and then use pH down
to
regulate the pH a bit (CO2 is in the future for more semi-permanent
solution.. but I just have to get over the activation energy to deal with
the yeast mess :-P

yeah. i know about the phosphate-based pH adjusters. will avoid it...
(got
a small bottle of pH down. if that works eventually, I'll buy a bigger
bottle...)

Wasn't sure if pH Stable was baking soda or some other carbonate source,
but
thought I'd pay extra just to see... so far, added 1.5tsp of the darn
thing
in my 37G and the kH has not budged!!! (stuck between 1 and 2). I guess
the
difference is when I put 1 drop, the color is darker than it was before..
so
it's easier to see the color change (before I had to look from the top of
the tube to discern color change). I guess KH is going up.. but SLOOOWLY
and I must have started out really low. pH did seem to creep up a bit,
but
still within the normal fluctuation level.. I'm letting it settle 24hrs
before I add more pH Stable or change pH...

and no. the test kit does work. I checked.. if I add a speckle of the
stuff directly into the test tube, the color changes instantly.. so.. I
guess the tank is super-deficient of carbonates.

I'm trying to think of a definitive way to discern whether Kent's pH
stable
is sodium bicarbonate or not... I guess I can check the ultimate pH of the
solution and compare.. (baking soda is about 8.2 or something, i think..)
that may be the easiest thing to check... sorry.. I'm just thinking out
loud. (if so, what a waste of money.. oh well)..

linda

"Robert Flory" wrote in message
gy.com...
Mid posted
"linda mar" wrote in message
...

SNIP

I don't have the means to read CO2 yet.. I was contemplating doing
DIY
thing until I lost all 4 otos in a span of 2 days and went into
"coronor's
investigation" mode.. (and was told by one LFS that they are quite
sensitive
to pH changes.. and this is what is prompting all my interest)

Sure you do, assuming you've not used phosphate buffers. In the normal
tank
which is bicarbonate buffered the relationship between pH, CO2 and kH is
a
direct one. add CO2, pH will drop. add bicarbonate pH will rise. See
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm Just measure the
pH
and kH and plug the number in. Or get out the slide rule and use the
included formula. I've got the page in my favorites for use when I want
to
check CO2 levels.

assuming nothing else is wrong with the tank other than the pH drifts
(I
have few bloated danios that I'm not sure what to make of them), I
intend
to
start adding nitrates since the tank reads zero... my fish aren't
polluting
the tank fast enough for the plants! (what a concept)

I have to add nitrates to a 29 gallon platy tank that has about double
the
inch/gallon fish load. But then the tank is overgrown with cabomba,
elodea/egeria and java moss. Ofcourse I trim about 6" a week, wonder
what
I'd have to do if I had more than 20 watts of light. I tossed a half a
bucket of cabomba out from my 55 today, it is a super low light tank.

i haven't gotten green water, but I do have haze.. seems to come and
go
depending on how much sunlight it gets during the sunset hours..
(like,
if
I
forget to close the drapes etc., then the water seems more hazy).

I guess I'll try some experiment (adding baking soda, and also ph down
to
see how they correlate to pH change..) before I start dumping stuff
into
the
main tank! but seems like upping the KH and stabilizing pH a bit
might
be
desirable for the fish.. then i'll tend to the plants :-)

linda

Be careful that you don't use phosphate based buffers. I think pH down
is
just acid, probably sulfuric. baking soda will give you a pretty quick
rise
in pH.

Bob