I'm a newbie too, so no issues. Pearling is the collection of oxygen bubbles
on leaves as the result of photosynthetic behavior of plants. CO2 and other
stuff is converted to oxygen. When the tank reaches oxygen saturation, the
oxygen collects into to bubbles....

I thought it was a good thing...

chet


"WhiskerFish" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:03:37 -0600, "Craig Brye"
wrote:

I'm guessing this is your problem. The nitrates should be between 5-10
ppm,
but you say yours is below 20. Is it closer to 0 or closer to 20, are
you
able to tell with your test kit? I'm fairly new at this, but I've done a
ton of research on plants in the last 1 1/2 years and have come to gain a
lot of information. I'm guessing your plants are starving for trace
elements and this leaves the algae to take over (feeding off of high
nitrates and possibly phosphates).

Just because plants pearl doesn't mean they're doing good. I've seen
algae
problems happen a lot even though plants are pearling. Some of the best
growth and tank conditions I had occurred with only minor pearling.


Ok you guys help the newbie out. What is pearling??

WF

I'm a newbie too, so no issues. Pearling is the collection of oxygen bubbles
on leaves as the result of photosynthetic behavior of plants. CO2 and other
stuff is converted to oxygen. When the tank reaches oxygen saturation, the
oxygen collects into to bubbles....

I thought it was a good thing...

chet


"WhiskerFish" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:03:37 -0600, "Craig Brye"
wrote:

I'm guessing this is your problem. The nitrates should be between 5-10
ppm,
but you say yours is below 20. Is it closer to 0 or closer to 20, are
you
able to tell with your test kit? I'm fairly new at this, but I've done a
ton of research on plants in the last 1 1/2 years and have come to gain a
lot of information. I'm guessing your plants are starving for trace
elements and this leaves the algae to take over (feeding off of high
nitrates and possibly phosphates).

Just because plants pearl doesn't mean they're doing good. I've seen
algae
problems happen a lot even though plants are pearling. Some of the best
growth and tank conditions I had occurred with only minor pearling.


Ok you guys help the newbie out. What is pearling??

WF

My point is, that at under 2 watts per gallon in an 18" high tank, you
shouldn't have your lights on for less than eleven hours at bare minimum.
Therefore, let's look for something else. You're supplementing CO2 so,
particularly at a moderate light level, we'll rule that out as a problem.
Which leaves either an excess or a deficiency of nutrients.

So, three more questions:

How much and how often are you changing your water?
Have you added any phosphate-based products to adjust your pH?
What is the water temperature?

And, btw, pearling IS good. It is visible confirmation that photosynthesis
is occurring (algae will pearl, too).




chet chet-at-surewestDOTnet wrote in message
...
Trace elements. Sorry, missed that. Yes, I was adding Seachem Flourish
about
two/three times per week for two months. I have stopped. It didn't seem to
make any difference one way or 'tother.

"kush" wrote in message
...
Something's out of balance. Please post your stats. Also, are you
dosing
with trace elements?

chet chet-at-surewestDOTnet wrote in message
...
I am still fighting algae. What I have now is dark reddish brown but
not
"powdery" like diatoms. It is definitely more like green algae in
texture.
When I trim the plants, the algae looks black once out of the water.

I have a 29 gallon tank with a 55w CF, fluorite substrate, and
Nutrafin
CO2
kit. Plants include Nana, Amazon Swords, Onion plants, Java Fern, Pond
Penny, Anacharis, and Rotala indica. After two hours of light they all
perl
like crazy. There is a shower of small air bubbles floating up to the
surface.

I have been cutting back on the light and am now down to about 10
hours.
Will it count toward a light reduction target if I start turning off
the
light in the middle of the day? Will it inhibit growth or damage the
plants?

I am hoping that by slowly cutting back on light I can eventually get
the
algae under control. On the other hand, I want to see the tank while I
am
at
home. Any advice?

chet

My point is, that at under 2 watts per gallon in an 18" high tank, you
shouldn't have your lights on for less than eleven hours at bare minimum.
Therefore, let's look for something else. You're supplementing CO2 so,
particularly at a moderate light level, we'll rule that out as a problem.
Which leaves either an excess or a deficiency of nutrients.

So, three more questions:

How much and how often are you changing your water?
Have you added any phosphate-based products to adjust your pH?
What is the water temperature?

And, btw, pearling IS good. It is visible confirmation that photosynthesis
is occurring (algae will pearl, too).




chet chet-at-surewestDOTnet wrote in message
...
Trace elements. Sorry, missed that. Yes, I was adding Seachem Flourish
about
two/three times per week for two months. I have stopped. It didn't seem to
make any difference one way or 'tother.

"kush" wrote in message
...
Something's out of balance. Please post your stats. Also, are you
dosing
with trace elements?

chet chet-at-surewestDOTnet wrote in message
...
I am still fighting algae. What I have now is dark reddish brown but
not
"powdery" like diatoms. It is definitely more like green algae in
texture.
When I trim the plants, the algae looks black once out of the water.

I have a 29 gallon tank with a 55w CF, fluorite substrate, and
Nutrafin
CO2
kit. Plants include Nana, Amazon Swords, Onion plants, Java Fern, Pond
Penny, Anacharis, and Rotala indica. After two hours of light they all
perl
like crazy. There is a shower of small air bubbles floating up to the
surface.

I have been cutting back on the light and am now down to about 10
hours.
Will it count toward a light reduction target if I start turning off
the
light in the middle of the day? Will it inhibit growth or damage the
plants?

I am hoping that by slowly cutting back on light I can eventually get
the
algae under control. On the other hand, I want to see the tank while I
am
at
home. Any advice?

chet

Oh, OK, I answered one of my questions. your temperature is 76º, so that's
OK.

Also, I'm not familiar with the bio-wheel power-filter. Is that a
mechanical filter that accelerates bacterial breakdown by heavily
oxygenating the water? If so, your CO2 is most likely coming out as fast as
it's going in. That could be an issue, even at moderate lighting, because
you've some fast-growing stem plants in there.

My Rotala indica is one of the fastest growing plant in my tanks. At
comparable light levels, I'd expect to prune four to six inches off it every
week. Is yours growing that fast?

kush wrote in message
...
My point is, that at under 2 watts per gallon in an 18" high tank, you
shouldn't have your lights on for less than eleven hours at bare minimum.
Therefore, let's look for something else. You're supplementing CO2 so,
particularly at a moderate light level, we'll rule that out as a problem.
Which leaves either an excess or a deficiency of nutrients.

So, three more questions:

How much and how often are you changing your water?
Have you added any phosphate-based products to adjust your pH?
What is the water temperature?

And, btw, pearling IS good. It is visible confirmation that photosynthesis
is occurring (algae will pearl, too).




chet chet-at-surewestDOTnet wrote in message
...
Trace elements. Sorry, missed that. Yes, I was adding Seachem Flourish
about
two/three times per week for two months. I have stopped. It didn't seem
to
make any difference one way or 'tother.

"kush" wrote in message
...
Something's out of balance. Please post your stats. Also, are you
dosing
with trace elements?

chet chet-at-surewestDOTnet wrote in message
...
I am still fighting algae. What I have now is dark reddish brown but
not
"powdery" like diatoms. It is definitely more like green algae in
texture.
When I trim the plants, the algae looks black once out of the water.

I have a 29 gallon tank with a 55w CF, fluorite substrate, and
Nutrafin
CO2
kit. Plants include Nana, Amazon Swords, Onion plants, Java Fern,
Pond
Penny, Anacharis, and Rotala indica. After two hours of light they
all
perl
like crazy. There is a shower of small air bubbles floating up to
the
surface.

I have been cutting back on the light and am now down to about 10
hours.
Will it count toward a light reduction target if I start turning off
the
light in the middle of the day? Will it inhibit growth or damage the
plants?

I am hoping that by slowly cutting back on light I can eventually
get
the
algae under control. On the other hand, I want to see the tank while
I
am
at
home. Any advice?

chet

Oh, OK, I answered one of my questions. your temperature is 76º, so that's
OK.

Also, I'm not familiar with the bio-wheel power-filter. Is that a
mechanical filter that accelerates bacterial breakdown by heavily
oxygenating the water? If so, your CO2 is most likely coming out as fast as
it's going in. That could be an issue, even at moderate lighting, because
you've some fast-growing stem plants in there.

My Rotala indica is one of the fastest growing plant in my tanks. At
comparable light levels, I'd expect to prune four to six inches off it every
week. Is yours growing that fast?

kush wrote in message
...
My point is, that at under 2 watts per gallon in an 18" high tank, you
shouldn't have your lights on for less than eleven hours at bare minimum.
Therefore, let's look for something else. You're supplementing CO2 so,
particularly at a moderate light level, we'll rule that out as a problem.
Which leaves either an excess or a deficiency of nutrients.

So, three more questions:

How much and how often are you changing your water?
Have you added any phosphate-based products to adjust your pH?
What is the water temperature?

And, btw, pearling IS good. It is visible confirmation that photosynthesis
is occurring (algae will pearl, too).




chet chet-at-surewestDOTnet wrote in message
...
Trace elements. Sorry, missed that. Yes, I was adding Seachem Flourish
about
two/three times per week for two months. I have stopped. It didn't seem
to
make any difference one way or 'tother.

"kush" wrote in message
...
Something's out of balance. Please post your stats. Also, are you
dosing
with trace elements?

chet chet-at-surewestDOTnet wrote in message
...
I am still fighting algae. What I have now is dark reddish brown but
not
"powdery" like diatoms. It is definitely more like green algae in
texture.
When I trim the plants, the algae looks black once out of the water.

I have a 29 gallon tank with a 55w CF, fluorite substrate, and
Nutrafin
CO2
kit. Plants include Nana, Amazon Swords, Onion plants, Java Fern,
Pond
Penny, Anacharis, and Rotala indica. After two hours of light they
all
perl
like crazy. There is a shower of small air bubbles floating up to
the
surface.

I have been cutting back on the light and am now down to about 10
hours.
Will it count toward a light reduction target if I start turning off
the
light in the middle of the day? Will it inhibit growth or damage the
plants?

I am hoping that by slowly cutting back on light I can eventually
get
the
algae under control. On the other hand, I want to see the tank while
I
am
at
home. Any advice?

chet

"kush" wrote in message
...
Also, I'm not familiar with the bio-wheel power-filter. Is that a
mechanical filter that accelerates bacterial breakdown by heavily
oxygenating the water?

Yes, it is the bio-wheel power-filter. I have it set to the lowest setting
(I like quiet). According to the literature, it is designed to provide a
high oxygen level to nitrifying bacteria that live on the wheel. It does not
generate a lot of surface turbulance. I'll measure CO2 again this evening
and get back to you on the numbers

My Rotala indica is one of the fastest growing plant in my tanks. At
comparable light levels, I'd expect to prune four to six inches off it
every
week. Is yours growing that fast?

It has grown some, but more like two inches in a month. Plus it's getting a
little "leggy". The Amazons, Onion plants, and Anacharis are the racehorces
in my tank.

How much and how often are you changing your water?

~40%-50% every other week.

Have you added any phosphate-based products to adjust your pH?

None that I am aware of. I have added Seachem "Flourish" and Seachem "Root
Tabs" and Hikari goldfish food.

I'll get you numbers tonight.

Thanks for your help

chet

"kush" wrote in message
...
Also, I'm not familiar with the bio-wheel power-filter. Is that a
mechanical filter that accelerates bacterial breakdown by heavily
oxygenating the water?

Yes, it is the bio-wheel power-filter. I have it set to the lowest setting
(I like quiet). According to the literature, it is designed to provide a
high oxygen level to nitrifying bacteria that live on the wheel. It does not
generate a lot of surface turbulance. I'll measure CO2 again this evening
and get back to you on the numbers

My Rotala indica is one of the fastest growing plant in my tanks. At
comparable light levels, I'd expect to prune four to six inches off it
every
week. Is yours growing that fast?

It has grown some, but more like two inches in a month. Plus it's getting a
little "leggy". The Amazons, Onion plants, and Anacharis are the racehorces
in my tank.

How much and how often are you changing your water?

~40%-50% every other week.

Have you added any phosphate-based products to adjust your pH?

None that I am aware of. I have added Seachem "Flourish" and Seachem "Root
Tabs" and Hikari goldfish food.

I'll get you numbers tonight.

Thanks for your help

chet

Thank you. Never heard of it before and damn sure have not seen it on
my plants yet!

On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:45:44 -0800, "chet" chet-at-surewestDOTnet
wrote:

I'm a newbie too, so no issues. Pearling is the collection of oxygen bubbles
on leaves as the result of photosynthetic behavior of plants. CO2 and other
stuff is converted to oxygen. When the tank reaches oxygen saturation, the
oxygen collects into to bubbles....

I thought it was a good thing...

chet


"WhiskerFish" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:03:37 -0600, "Craig Brye"
wrote:

I'm guessing this is your problem. The nitrates should be between 5-10
ppm,
but you say yours is below 20. Is it closer to 0 or closer to 20, are
you
able to tell with your test kit? I'm fairly new at this, but I've done a
ton of research on plants in the last 1 1/2 years and have come to gain a
lot of information. I'm guessing your plants are starving for trace
elements and this leaves the algae to take over (feeding off of high
nitrates and possibly phosphates).

Just because plants pearl doesn't mean they're doing good. I've seen
algae
problems happen a lot even though plants are pearling. Some of the best
growth and tank conditions I had occurred with only minor pearling.


Ok you guys help the newbie out. What is pearling??

WF

Thank you. Never heard of it before and damn sure have not seen it on
my plants yet!

On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:45:44 -0800, "chet" chet-at-surewestDOTnet
wrote:

I'm a newbie too, so no issues. Pearling is the collection of oxygen bubbles
on leaves as the result of photosynthetic behavior of plants. CO2 and other
stuff is converted to oxygen. When the tank reaches oxygen saturation, the
oxygen collects into to bubbles....

I thought it was a good thing...

chet


"WhiskerFish" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:03:37 -0600, "Craig Brye"
wrote:

I'm guessing this is your problem. The nitrates should be between 5-10
ppm,
but you say yours is below 20. Is it closer to 0 or closer to 20, are
you
able to tell with your test kit? I'm fairly new at this, but I've done a
ton of research on plants in the last 1 1/2 years and have come to gain a
lot of information. I'm guessing your plants are starving for trace
elements and this leaves the algae to take over (feeding off of high
nitrates and possibly phosphates).

Just because plants pearl doesn't mean they're doing good. I've seen
algae
problems happen a lot even though plants are pearling. Some of the best
growth and tank conditions I had occurred with only minor pearling.


Ok you guys help the newbie out. What is pearling??

WF

It is a good thing, but doesn't necessarily mean the tank will be algae
free.

--
Craig Brye
University of Phoenix Online

"chet" chet-at-surewestDOTnet wrote in message
...
I'm a newbie too, so no issues. Pearling is the collection of oxygen
bubbles
on leaves as the result of photosynthetic behavior of plants. CO2 and
other
stuff is converted to oxygen. When the tank reaches oxygen saturation, the
oxygen collects into to bubbles....

I thought it was a good thing...

chet


"WhiskerFish" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:03:37 -0600, "Craig Brye"
wrote:

I'm guessing this is your problem. The nitrates should be between 5-10
ppm,
but you say yours is below 20. Is it closer to 0 or closer to 20, are
you
able to tell with your test kit? I'm fairly new at this, but I've done
a
ton of research on plants in the last 1 1/2 years and have come to gain
a
lot of information. I'm guessing your plants are starving for trace
elements and this leaves the algae to take over (feeding off of high
nitrates and possibly phosphates).

Just because plants pearl doesn't mean they're doing good. I've seen
algae
problems happen a lot even though plants are pearling. Some of the
best
growth and tank conditions I had occurred with only minor pearling.


Ok you guys help the newbie out. What is pearling??

WF

It is a good thing, but doesn't necessarily mean the tank will be algae
free.

--
Craig Brye
University of Phoenix Online

"chet" chet-at-surewestDOTnet wrote in message
...
I'm a newbie too, so no issues. Pearling is the collection of oxygen
bubbles
on leaves as the result of photosynthetic behavior of plants. CO2 and
other
stuff is converted to oxygen. When the tank reaches oxygen saturation, the
oxygen collects into to bubbles....

I thought it was a good thing...

chet


"WhiskerFish" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:03:37 -0600, "Craig Brye"
wrote:

I'm guessing this is your problem. The nitrates should be between 5-10
ppm,
but you say yours is below 20. Is it closer to 0 or closer to 20, are
you
able to tell with your test kit? I'm fairly new at this, but I've done
a
ton of research on plants in the last 1 1/2 years and have come to gain
a
lot of information. I'm guessing your plants are starving for trace
elements and this leaves the algae to take over (feeding off of high
nitrates and possibly phosphates).

Just because plants pearl doesn't mean they're doing good. I've seen
algae
problems happen a lot even though plants are pearling. Some of the
best
growth and tank conditions I had occurred with only minor pearling.


Ok you guys help the newbie out. What is pearling??

WF

Got some water parameters using the aqua pharm "master test kit".

Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 5.0ppm
kH: Uhhh.. I can't find the directions but it was five drops of
the kH test liquid.
pH: Somewhere between 7.6 and 7.8.
A little discrepancy between the high and low level test
kits.
Temp: 76F
I'd calculate CO2 saturation, if I could quickly figure out kH levels.

I performed a 40% water change this past Sunday.

Is there something I'm missing?

chet


"chet" chet-at-surewestDOTnet wrote in message
...
"kush" wrote in message
...
Also, I'm not familiar with the bio-wheel power-filter. Is that a
mechanical filter that accelerates bacterial breakdown by heavily
oxygenating the water?

Yes, it is the bio-wheel power-filter. I have it set to the lowest setting
(I like quiet). According to the literature, it is designed to provide a
high oxygen level to nitrifying bacteria that live on the wheel. It does
not
generate a lot of surface turbulance. I'll measure CO2 again this evening
and get back to you on the numbers

My Rotala indica is one of the fastest growing plant in my tanks. At
comparable light levels, I'd expect to prune four to six inches off it
every
week. Is yours growing that fast?

It has grown some, but more like two inches in a month. Plus it's getting
a
little "leggy". The Amazons, Onion plants, and Anacharis are the
racehorces
in my tank.

How much and how often are you changing your water?

~40%-50% every other week.

Have you added any phosphate-based products to adjust your pH?

None that I am aware of. I have added Seachem "Flourish" and Seachem "Root
Tabs" and Hikari goldfish food.

I'll get you numbers tonight.

Thanks for your help

chet

Got some water parameters using the aqua pharm "master test kit".

Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 5.0ppm
kH: Uhhh.. I can't find the directions but it was five drops of
the kH test liquid.
pH: Somewhere between 7.6 and 7.8.
A little discrepancy between the high and low level test
kits.
Temp: 76F
I'd calculate CO2 saturation, if I could quickly figure out kH levels.

I performed a 40% water change this past Sunday.

Is there something I'm missing?

chet


"chet" chet-at-surewestDOTnet wrote in message
...
"kush" wrote in message
...
Also, I'm not familiar with the bio-wheel power-filter. Is that a
mechanical filter that accelerates bacterial breakdown by heavily
oxygenating the water?

Yes, it is the bio-wheel power-filter. I have it set to the lowest setting
(I like quiet). According to the literature, it is designed to provide a
high oxygen level to nitrifying bacteria that live on the wheel. It does
not
generate a lot of surface turbulance. I'll measure CO2 again this evening
and get back to you on the numbers

My Rotala indica is one of the fastest growing plant in my tanks. At
comparable light levels, I'd expect to prune four to six inches off it
every
week. Is yours growing that fast?

It has grown some, but more like two inches in a month. Plus it's getting
a
little "leggy". The Amazons, Onion plants, and Anacharis are the
racehorces
in my tank.

How much and how often are you changing your water?

~40%-50% every other week.

Have you added any phosphate-based products to adjust your pH?

None that I am aware of. I have added Seachem "Flourish" and Seachem "Root
Tabs" and Hikari goldfish food.

I'll get you numbers tonight.

Thanks for your help

chet

OK, water-changes are good so, unless you have problems with your local
supply like phosphate or something, or you're overfeeding your fish (you're
not, right?) the issue seems to be something that there's NOT ENOUGH of,
rather than something there's TOO MUCH of. See, this is like Sherlock
Holmes, isn't it? Once you've eliminated the impossible...

I'm going to go with a complicated "two cause" diagnosis. CO2 AND trace
element deficiency - I suspect that either there's not enough CO2 being
produced or that too much of your CO2 is being dissipated by the biowheel.

With pH at 7.6, your dCHº would have to be 15 (somebody check my math,
please!) to be at the low end of optimal. So please test for hardness again
to verify.

There is a condition of very basic (high pH) and very soft (low dCH) under
which iron (and other trace elements?) precipitate out of the water column.
Unfortunately, I don't have the chemistry to speak inteliigently about this.

Recommendation: Get more CO2 into the water. Increasing CO2 will lower the
pH. Resume supplementing with trace. DON'T overfeed your fish. DON'T post
back that you have superabundant CO2 because that would make me look stupid
and **** me off.

Good luck.

kush

"You can't have everything - where would you put it?"

chet chet-at-surewestDOTnet wrote in message
...
Got some water parameters using the aqua pharm "master test kit".

Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 5.0ppm
kH: Uhhh.. I can't find the directions but it was five drops
of
the kH test liquid.
pH: Somewhere between 7.6 and 7.8.
A little discrepancy between the high and low level
test
kits.
Temp: 76F
I'd calculate CO2 saturation, if I could quickly figure out kH levels.

I performed a 40% water change this past Sunday.

Is there something I'm missing?

chet


"chet" chet-at-surewestDOTnet wrote in message
...
"kush" wrote in message
...
Also, I'm not familiar with the bio-wheel power-filter. Is that a
mechanical filter that accelerates bacterial breakdown by heavily
oxygenating the water?

Yes, it is the bio-wheel power-filter. I have it set to the lowest
setting
(I like quiet). According to the literature, it is designed to provide a
high oxygen level to nitrifying bacteria that live on the wheel. It does
not
generate a lot of surface turbulance. I'll measure CO2 again this
evening
and get back to you on the numbers

My Rotala indica is one of the fastest growing plant in my tanks. At
comparable light levels, I'd expect to prune four to six inches off it
every
week. Is yours growing that fast?

It has grown some, but more like two inches in a month. Plus it's
getting
a
little "leggy". The Amazons, Onion plants, and Anacharis are the
racehorces
in my tank.

How much and how often are you changing your water?

~40%-50% every other week.

Have you added any phosphate-based products to adjust your pH?

None that I am aware of. I have added Seachem "Flourish" and Seachem
"Root
Tabs" and Hikari goldfish food.

I'll get you numbers tonight.

Thanks for your help

chet