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Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
You really have to watch what you say and make sure you don't give
opinions anymore. I received this nice email this evening. Just a heads up for all of you. Dear Mark, We are writing to request that "SLANDER and DEFAMATION" material be removed from the www.fins.actwin.com discussions web pages about our product, the ECO-Aqualizer. Defined: "Slander and Defamation - are the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations meant to defame and damage another persons reputation. It is illegal." After meeting we are our attorney, Trey Henderson, it has been decided for the best interest of all parties involved, to cordially attempt and request that the following post be removed. April 28, 2003 from Rex Grigg April 23, 2003 from Jerry B We request that these two post be removed immediately. Such remarks as "SNAKE OIL" is considered slander, especially when the author, publisher, printer, or party involved has willingly confessed that he or she has not tried, purchased, tested, or validat ed such defamatory remarks. But chooses to post remarks. True we live in a society of f reedom of speech. But when such a defamatory remark is posted to the world via the internet and the business' sales ratio drops by a dramatic amount greater than proceeding months of sales, one must review the recorded stati stics to determine the loss potential dated from this April 23rd and forward. Since sales are generated solely by internet transactions, it is only obvious that search engine results are the main driver of this business. In the event of the above posts which appear on the front page of GOOGLE search engine , items 3 and 4, have bee n a significant main source of such defamatory issues and thereof. In all civil actions for slander and libel the falsity of the injurious statements is an essential element, so that the defendant is always entitled to justify his statements by their truth; but when the statements are in themselves defamatory, their falsity is presumed, and the burden of proving their truth is laid upon the defendant. The gen eral theory of law with regard to these cases is this. It is assumed that in every case of defamation intention is a necessary element; but in the ordinary case, when a statement is false and defamatory, the law presumes that it has been made or published with an evil intent, and will not allow this presumption to be rebutted by evidence or submitted as matter of fact t o a jury. But there are certain circumstances in which the natural presumption is quite the other way. There are certain natural and proper occasions on which statements may be made which are in themselves defamatory, and which may be false, but which naturally suggest that the statements may have been made from a perfectly proper motive. In the cases of this kind which are recognized by law, the presumption is reversed. It lies with the plaintiff to show that the defendant was actuated by what is called express malice, by an in tention to do harm and in this case the question is not one of legal in ference for the court, but a matter of fact to be decided by the jury. Although however, the theory of the law seems to rest entirely upon natura presumption of intention, it is pretty clear that in determining the limits of privilege the courts have been almost wholly guided by considerations of public or general expediency. Papers published under the authority of parliament are protected by a special act, 3 & 4 Vict c. 9, 1840, which was passed after a decree of the law court adverse to the privilege claimed. The general rule now is that all reports of parliamentary or judic ial proceedings are privileged in so far as they are honest. Even ex parte proceedings,in so far as they take place in public, now fall within the same rule. But if the report is garbled, the party who is injured in consequence is entitled to maintain an action, and to have the question of malice submitted to a jury. As a cordial request, I ask that the po st be removed within 5 days. After speaking with the Editor, Mark Rosenstein, he has indicated that he would remove the post if contacted by the parties to do so. Otherwise, FINS will take no responsiblility due to the fact that these post are in the "mailing list archives". And authors of such post will be solely responsible. If not removed, our attorney will have no other remedy but to see that justice is upheld and that such Slander and Defamation is valued in a court of law. If and when this takes place, we will sought after all parties involved, whether author, writer, pub lisher, and or moderators to be held fully liable for the valuation accessed by the courts. I will add that the statements made by Rex Griggs, have not only been damaging to ECO-Aqualizer Corp., but also may have cost many deaths within the fish aquarium community. I strongly suggest that all parties should find out more about ECO-Aqualizer and our intent of saving fishes lives. Our product may be the biggest impact in this industry in saving marine fish with the introduction into captivity. As a fellow hobbyist, one must ask themselves, do I care about the fish? Or do I NOT care about their we ll-being? Please see APPMA statistical results about the percentage of fish deaths within the marine hobby. The numbers are mind-boggling. The intent of ECO-Aqualizer is to significantly decrease those numbers. Mark Rosenstein has given ECO-Aqualizer these email addresses as a correspondence of contact. Please RESPOND back to avoid further complications. Please respond to Mark Rosenstein, Editor of FINS, as well to update and remove such unvalidated remarks. Sincerely, Carl Denzer , President Semper Fi! Visit the forums at Aqua Botanic! http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/#1 Need Nitrate or Potassium for your tank? Go to www.litemanu.com (Just a happy customer of the above!) |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
"Rex Grigg" wrote
You really have to watch what you say and make sure you don't give opinions anymore. I received this nice email this evening. Just a heads up for all of you. There's no need to purchase this product before realising it is nonsense. A read through the absurd web site is enough to come to the conclusion that snake oil is an apt description. I'd like to see them try and explain just exactly how their product works with its far infrared waves and vibrational frequency effects. They'd be laughed out of court. To claim that fish have died because people have been put off buying this useluess lump of plastic is beneath contempt. -- Graham Ramsay |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
Go Graham. I second that. What a crock of shit. I don't think their sales
have ever been that good anyway, and I seriously doubt that Rex's remarks damaged sales in such a negative way. EVERYONE is entitled to their opinions. -- **So long, and thanks for all the fish!** "Graham Ramsay" wrote in message ... "Rex Grigg" wrote You really have to watch what you say and make sure you don't give opinions anymore. I received this nice email this evening. Just a heads up for all of you. There's no need to purchase this product before realising it is nonsense. A read through the absurd web site is enough to come to the conclusion that snake oil is an apt description. I'd like to see them try and explain just exactly how their product works with its far infrared waves and vibrational frequency effects. They'd be laughed out of court. To claim that fish have died because people have been put off buying this useluess lump of plastic is beneath contempt. -- Graham Ramsay |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
"ECO-Aqualizer's specific magnetic polarity kills algae growth. (From their website) Crikey jingoes, I probably wouldn't want to risk it for my planted tank if IT does that to algae. lol. "Graham Ramsay" wrote in message ... "Rex Grigg" wrote You really have to watch what you say and make sure you don't give opinions anymore. I received this nice email this evening. Just a heads up for all of you. There's no need to purchase this product before realising it is nonsense. A read through the absurd web site is enough to come to the conclusion that snake oil is an apt description. I'd like to see them try and explain just exactly how their product works with its far infrared waves and vibrational frequency effects. They'd be laughed out of court. To claim that fish have died because people have been put off buying this useluess lump of plastic is beneath contempt. -- Graham Ramsay |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
If I remember right the Petswarehouse guy was counter-sued and thoroughly
crushed out of business. Chuck Gadd has a link to it on his website. "Rex Grigg" wrote in message ... You really have to watch what you say and make sure you don't give opinions anymore. I received this nice email this evening. Just a heads up for all of you. |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
"Peter Gennaro" wrote in message
... If I remember right the Petswarehouse guy was counter-sued and thoroughly crushed out of business. Yes, but not before taking down a very good website and costing several people thousands in legal fees. See http://www.petsforum.com/psw/ for further gory details. I would suggest that we write it ecoaq*lizer to keep our bank accounts from dying like pl*co. -coelacanth P.S. I must say the flash animation is quite convincing, except that the tank appears to be filled with molecules of a trivalent-oxygen compound (H30?). |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
"Peter Gennaro" wrote in message ...
If I remember right the Petswarehouse guy was counter-sued and thoroughly crushed out of business. Chuck Gadd has a link to it on his website. "Rex Grigg" wrote in message ... You really have to watch what you say and make sure you don't give opinions anymore. I received this nice email this evening. Just a heads up for all of you. I find it disturbing that Petwarehouse would even dare to attempt to threaten a public forum like this. I have never used the product, don't even know what it is-- but I do appreciate the time people take to review other products. Personally, I highly doubt Petswarehouse would be successful in such a lawsuit. Bad PR also. The press would have such a field day with a story like that. |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
snipped
I would suggest that we write it ecoaq*lizer to keep our bank accounts from dying like pl*co. -coelacanth That is by far the funniest thing I've read in years.... |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
"Tasslehoff" wrote in message . au...
"ECO-Aqualizer's specific magnetic polarity kills algae growth. (From their website) Humm, as someone with a very long history in the aquarium hobby, business and also academic background specifically in algae's ecology, physiology and biochemistry, I do find their claims to be a very long stretch at best,but I would challenge them to show more research on this topic to support thier contentions. Simply saying something does not make it so. The consumer needs some back ground to show this is really what is happening. I can speculate and make some business claim, and then chase after anyone that says different. But if you have something that is more than speculation, then you can back it up with evidence. Then legal BS is not needed. Doh!!!! The consumer certainly does not need a company threatening them. Back up your claims --------if-------- you are reputable company. If you don't, you might want to spend more on legal cost and get less profit due to suing potential consumers. Threatening people/potential consumers is never a wise method of business. So prove that it works. Regards, Tom Barr |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
Rex Grigg wrote:
You really have to watch what you say and make sure you don't give opinions anymore. I received this nice email this evening. Just a heads up for all of you. If they've really met with their attorney, maybe they could ask him to write their letters for them in the future, as it's quite clear that Carl Denzer lacks any substantial grammatical skills. -- www.ericschreiber.com |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
Rex Grigg wrote:
I will add that the statements made by Rex Griggs, have not only been damaging to ECO-Aqualizer Corp., but also may have cost many deaths within the fish aquarium community. In addition to language problems, it appears from this non-Sequitur that he has some trouble with logic, as well. I assume this refers to Rex recommending that people not use Carl's product. If we accept Carl's 'logic' and this makes Rex responsible for the resulting fish deaths, then Carl is guilty of the same for not marketing this product sooner, and for not giving it away to everyone who needs it. What is far infrared technology? Does it need electricity to operate? Far Infrared is a combination of bioceramic elements originally developed by NASA. It radiates electromagnetic photons. ECO-Aqualizer does not need electricity to operate Infrared is nothing more than heat radiation. There are several ways to generate heat, but they rely either on chemical reactions (like dropping a bit of liver into hydrogen peroxide), radioactive decay, or energy conversion such as from running a current through a resistor. Their FAQ rules out electricity. I'm reasonably sure their product isn't radioactive, and I can't think of a closed chemical system that will generate heat for 20 years (the promised product life). So, I wonder where their infrared is coming from. I have a theory, but it involves inappropriate anatomical references. From http://tinyurl.com/vwq7 "Question: I want to know if any bioceramic materials are incorporated in the space shuttle which are said to emit infrared rays which improve circulation. There is a lot of news about this recently." "Answer: These ceramic materials do not emit any more infrared rays than any other material of the same temperature. Infrared rays are just natural heat radiation and depend on the temperature of the material. While locally applied heat has always been considered useful under some circumstances to improve circulation near the skin, you can get all the heat or infrared radiation you want just by raising the temperature. There may be some bioceramic materials in the Space Shuttle, but they are not there for any health benefits." Sounds like NASA is pretty much debunking the entire 'technology'. Who shall we trust - NASA, or someone who is trying to sell us something and threatens lawsuits when people say negative things? I strongly suggest that all parties should find out more about ECO-Aqualizer and our intent of saving fishes lives. As a fellow hobbyist, one must ask themselves, do I care about the fish? Or do I NOT care about their well-being? And he plays the 'appeal to emotions' card, which any high school logic class student can easily recognize. You've got a live one there, Rex. Better you than me :) -- www.ericschreiber.com |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:39:21 -0000, "Graham Ramsay"
wrote: "Rex Grigg" wrote You really have to watch what you say and make sure you don't give opinions anymore. I received this nice email this evening. Just a heads up for all of you. There's no need to purchase this product before realising it is nonsense. A read through the absurd web site is enough to come to the conclusion that snake oil is an apt description. I'd like to see them try and explain just exactly how their product works with its far infrared waves and vibrational frequency effects. They'd be laughed out of court. To claim that fish have died because people have been put off buying this useluess lump of plastic is beneath contempt. I just took a look at there web site... really nice piece of plastic... I have to get me one 'cause I've just become really lazy and don't want to do a water change for up to "8 Months" WOW. And here I thought some of my fish died because my tank was over stocked for what the filters could reasonable handle. I stand corrected, it is because I did not have one of these things that my fish died. I have to get me one of those things so that I can add more fish to my 33 gallon tank or maybe I can add that Arawana I always wanted. Thank you people for telling me about this "great" product. -= Gandalf =- p.s. and if you think i'm serious here.... then I will have to turn you all into brine shrimp and feed you to my Kribs. |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
Hey - check out these two pages for the "technology" behind this Far
Infrared: http://www.farinfraredtherapy.com/st...11201954428698 and http://www.farinfraredtherapy.com/st...11201954428698 Convinced yet? If so, this place sells all kinds of products. Knock yourself out! Very similar to all the hoopla about therapeutic magnets a few years back. -- Bob Alston bobalston9 AT aol DOT com |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:02:30 -0600, "Bob Alston"
wrote: Hey - check out these two pages for the "technology" behind this Far Infrared: http://www.farinfraredtherapy.com/st...11201954428698 and http://www.farinfraredtherapy.com/st...11201954428698 Convinced yet? If so, this place sells all kinds of products. Knock yourself out! Very similar to all the hoopla about therapeutic magnets a few years back. What? you mean my house made of magnets was a waist of time and money too? :-) psst hey mister you wan nay buy some magnets? You really didn't take me seriously in my last post did you? -= Gandalf =- Bzzzzzzzit you are all now brine shrimp!! |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:02:30 -0600, "Bob Alston"
wrote: Where do these minerals get the energy to emit those far infrared rays? How come I'm still paying for home heating oil? All I need is a pile of those rocks and my house will be toasty warm! Hey - check out these two pages for the "technology" behind this Far Infrared: http://www.farinfraredtherapy.com/st...11201954428698 and http://www.farinfraredtherapy.com/st...11201954428698 Convinced yet? If so, this place sells all kinds of products. Knock yourself out! Very similar to all the hoopla about therapeutic magnets a few years back. Semper Fi! Visit the forums at Aqua Botanic! http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/#1 Need Nitrate or Potassium for your tank? Go to www.litemanu.com (Just a happy customer of the above!) |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
Rex Grigg wrote:
Where do these minerals get the energy to emit those far infrared rays? How come I'm still paying for home heating oil? All I need is a pile of those rocks and my house will be toasty warm! Assuming the rocks are uranium, sure :) -- www.ericschreiber.com |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 20:14:47 -0600, Eric Schreiber
wrote: Rex Grigg wrote: Where do these minerals get the energy to emit those far infrared rays? How come I'm still paying for home heating oil? All I need is a pile of those rocks and my house will be toasty warm! Assuming the rocks are uranium, sure :) Nah... one good phaser blast, set on low that is, and presto there you have it .... heat Well that's enough of going "OT" for me.... will not post any more snide comments on infrared whatchamacallits, magnets or other whosamajiggers.... Now back to the FISH..... you know they sort of look like this --- -^)) I'm now going back to my tanks and "just keep looking, just keep looking, looking, looking". Stop that! |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
LOL! I gather this company is not based in an English-speaking country. I
wouldn't worry too much. Unlike Mr. "I live 5 minutes from the federal courthouse," they're probably going to find it a lot harder to file lawsuits against U.S. defendents. Leigh http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/ |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:17:41 -0500, "Peter Gennaro"
wrote: If I remember right the Petswarehouse guy was counter-sued and thoroughly crushed out of business. Chuck Gadd has a link to it on his website. Nope, the case is still SLOWLY working it's way thru the courts. A bunch of defendants settled early, simply due to the unavoidable costs of defending yourself in a courtroom across the country. A handful of defendants are fighting back. Full scoop can be found at http://www.petsforum.com/psw/Default.html Chuck Gadd http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
On 20 Nov 2003 11:18:15 -0800, (B Lee) wrote:
I find it disturbing that Petwarehouse would even dare to attempt to threaten a public forum like this. I have never used the product, IMPORTANT DISTINCTION HERE!!!! It was not Petwarehouse (now Doctors Foster & Smith's Pet Warehouse). It was Pets Warehouse. Personally, I highly doubt Petswarehouse would be successful in such a lawsuit. Bad PR also. The press would have such a field day with a story like that. Well, the case has been going on for about 2.5 years now. Regardless of how successful it will be in the end, the case has succeeded in causing grief and expense to a bunch of fellow aquaria hobbyists. Chuck Gadd http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 19:02:30 -0600, "Bob Alston"
wrote: Hey - check out these two pages for the "technology" behind this Far Infrared: Far Infrared is simply HEAT. That's all it really means. But Far Infrared makes a product sound much more impressive. Chuck Gadd http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:52:36 -0700, Chuck Gadd wrote:
On 20 Nov 2003 11:18:15 -0800, (B Lee) wrote: I find it disturbing that Petwarehouse would even dare to attempt to threaten a public forum like this. I have never used the product, IMPORTANT DISTINCTION HERE!!!! It was not Petwarehouse (now Doctors Foster & Smith's Pet Warehouse). It was Pets Warehouse. Personally, I highly doubt Petswarehouse would be successful in such a lawsuit. Bad PR also. The press would have such a field day with a story like that. Well, the case has been going on for about 2.5 years now. Regardless of how successful it will be in the end, the case has succeeded in causing grief and expense to a bunch of fellow aquaria hobbyists. Chuck Gadd http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua Do you supose that they changed their name so as not to be confused with the other 'pets warehouse'? The good doctors run a great operation and hopefully did not get hurt by being mistaken for those ***********s. |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
Eric Schreiber wrote in message . ..
tose (LeighMo) wrote: LOL! I gather this company is not based in an English-speaking country. I wouldn't worry too much. Unlike Mr. "I live 5 minutes from the federal courthouse," they're probably going to find it a lot harder to file lawsuits against U.S. defendents. They claim to be based in Houston, but you certainly wouldn't know it from their language skills. All I can say is you guys that know the history have big kahonies here! Just a little friendly warning, there is a big difference between complaining of bad service and ridiculing a product. I would have been much more impressed if they publicaly challenged the skeptisism and explained how it worked than threatening to sue, but they wouldn't be the first to succeed at a suit of this type. It would be entirely different than the PSW suit. Robert |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
Eric Schreiber wrote in message . ..
tose (LeighMo) wrote: LOL! I gather this company is not based in an English-speaking country. I wouldn't worry too much. Unlike Mr. "I live 5 minutes from the federal courthouse," they're probably going to find it a lot harder to file lawsuits against U.S. defendents. They claim to be based in Houston, but you certainly wouldn't know it from their language skills. I am more interested in hearing arguements on the scientific principals the company claims, and if it does work, what affect it would have on a planted aquarium. What affect would it have on carbon dioxide, posite and negative ions, cations and anions, the nitrate uptake of the plants, plant photosynthesis, DOC levels... I did a search on the product in Google and came up with lots of stuff..(never saw Rexs comments, but lots of talk about the product in lots and lots of forums) There was plenty of sketicisim both in freshwater and Marine forums, but not all negative. They do have their supporters. FAMA magazine wrote a very positive review of it, and Monolith Marine Monsters, M3, is not only seling the product, but gives much detailed information about how it works and the science behind it. M3 has long had a reputation of selling only high quality specialty equipment. Many of you have their C02 equipment and swear by them. Even with past troubles, M3s reputation for its product line has been sterling, (much to my dismay!) http://www.marine-monsters.com/front...aqualizer.html There are other very well respected dealers putting their reputation on the line by selling this product. I personaly am very skeptical of it, but I also would like to know more about how practical it would really be in a freshwater plant tank assuming it does work. This type of discussion would be much more usefull, and much safer when it comes to personal liability for making such comments publicaly. Robert |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
Eric Schreiber wrote in message . ..
tose (LeighMo) wrote: LOL! I gather this company is not based in an English-speaking country. I wouldn't worry too much. Unlike Mr. "I live 5 minutes from the federal courthouse," they're probably going to find it a lot harder to file lawsuits against U.S. defendents. They claim to be based in Houston, but you certainly wouldn't know it from their language skills. I am more interested in hearing arguements on the scientific principals the company claims, and if it does work, what affect it would have on a planted aquarium. What affect would it have on carbon dioxide, posite and negative ions, cations and anions, the nitrate uptake of the plants, plant photosynthesis, DOC levels... I did a search on the product in Google and came up with lots of stuff..(never saw Rexs comments, but lots of talk about the product in lots and lots of forums) There was plenty of sketicisim both in freshwater and Marine forums, but not all negative. They do have their supporters. FAMA magazine wrote a very positive review of it, and Monolith Marine Monsters, M3, is not only seling the product, but gives much detailed information about how it works and the science behind it. M3 has long had a reputation of selling only high quality specialty equipment. Many of you have their C02 equipment and swear by them. Even with past troubles, M3s reputation for its product line has been sterling, (much to my dismay!) http://www.marine-monsters.com/front...aqualizer.html There are other very well respected dealers putting their reputation on the line by selling this product. I personaly am very skeptical of it, but I also would like to know more about how practical it would really be in a freshwater plant tank assuming it does work. This type of discussion would be much more usefull, and much safer when it comes to personal liability for making such comments publicaly. Robert |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
(Robert H) wrote:
I am more interested in hearing arguements on the scientific principals the company claims Unfortunately, their marketing information is pretty vague. One claim they did make, about Far Infrared and bioceramic elements from NASA, was pretty much debunked by material on NASA's own site: http://tinyurl.com/vwq7 M3 has long had a reputation of selling only high quality specialty equipment. Many of you have their C02 equipment and swear by them. Even with past troubles, M3s reputation for its product line has been sterling, (much to my dismay!) http://www.marine-monsters.com/front...aqualizer.html Looks like they're printing an expanded version of the manufacturer data. As has been noted before, far infrared is nothing more than heat. Without some energy source, how is the product increasing the far infrared level above ambient? That naturally occurring magnetic field in all oceans and lakes is also in all aquariums - it covers everything on earth. You don't need a special magnet to produce the effect, since it's already there. "Because like-charges REPEL each other, the water molecules separate or split and become smaller structured molecules". You don't split a water molecule and get a smaller water molecule - you get two hydrogen and one oxygen atom. There are other very well respected dealers putting their reputation on the line by selling this product. I think it would be great to have my opinion on this proven wrong, but I don't expect it to happen. The "how it works" information I've seen has had far too much new-wave bafflegab and psuedo-science sounding terminology to convince me that it's legitimate. -- www.ericschreiber.com |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
They claim to be based in Houston, but you certainly wouldn't know it
from their language skills. Near as I can tell, they have their web site hosted with a company in Houston. But if you look at their actual physical addresses (listed on their web site, under "contacts"), they're all overseas, in places like Thailand, the Malta Islands, Indonesia, Singapore, Portugal, etc. If they want to file a lawsuit in the U.S., they're going to have to hire a lawyer. I think they'll find American lawyers are a lot pricier than American webhosting. |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
Folks that behave poorly in business to potential customers and go
after customer are MUCH worse off in the long run, even if they do manage to silence someone. Instead they immediately threaten you. Gee, that will win praise on the net real fast. They **** and moan about one of two post then threaten someone who will then tell everyone about it while if the company had just gone about their business, that little post in some obscure mailing list about some plants would not have been noticed but by coming out after the customer, this really brings the fight out for everyone to see and the court of public opinion will weigh very heavily against the business, not the consumer. Now MOST businesses understand this, some fruitcakes evidently do not. But it's okay, they hurt themselves the worse. Some actually end up in Bankruptcy court and file Ch 7 or Ch 11. I know one such case. Too bad they cannot come forward and discuss things like bad service issues, science behind the product and convienice, address the folks that are skeptics or at least beat the skeptics in a debate/discussion. This is much better business approach and wins more sales than the legal billy club. They do not have time to discuss the product/service but these same companies have the time to call their lawyers and sue consumers, gather evidence? I would gladly buy from SeaChem, Marineland, and other companies that talk to hobbyist and give details. They do not threaten the customer if the customer does not like it. They spend less time/energy etc on legal issues and more on good service and doing things for customers that win loylaty. It's cheaper to simply give something away than to sue someone. It's a better investment. SeaChem made a number of things that were controvesial, but they won folks over slowly with good service and supporting the hobby. If they have a critic they try everything to solve the issue and have sent replacement products to those with issues at no cost etc. This is good business ense and a much better investment in the long term than threats. Business to business uissues are different but you never go after a customer, you always try and work it out with them. Got a critic and don't like what they said? Get off your butt and defend it and not with lawyers. If it works you need to know why it works and explain it enough to make sense to the consumer. Your selling something that requires this approach in sales By not doing that, it makes the consumer both paranoid/suspicious and also the mere fact that you threaten instead of discussing gives a horrid taste in ANY consumer's mouth. The web is a big place and the court of public opinion weighs very heavily here, you will not win in business using your approach, that I do know. Most successful companies really do not waste their time or energy of such stupid notions as to go after a consumer. It's bad business. Going after a customer cost a great deal and takes a long time, even for legal hobbyist and they always lose in the end. I'd much rather take any cost/profits etc and use it to build the business rather than defending what one person said on a long forgotton post. The nastygram post from these companies are used against the companies in the court of public opinion on the web for all to see. That's the worse thing you can do as a company. The company only discredits themself by avoiding a discussion and threatening the consumers. Compliments are one of the best investments a copmpnmay can make to consumers, legal threats to consumers are some of the worse. Say , "Yes, good points dear consumer...." then go to explain an answer....it's easier than talking about law. Regards, Tom Barr |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
On 22 Nov 2003 10:54:18 -0800,
) wrote: Your selling something that requires this approach in sales By not doing that, it makes the consumer both paranoid/suspicious and also the mere fact that you threaten instead of discussing gives a horrid taste in ANY consumer's mouth. I definitely agree with this point. I have my opinion on the product in question based on the pseudo-scientific descriptions, but what makes me most skeptical is that rather than debate the science, they consult lawyers. If there is solid science behind a product, then that seems that discussing that science would be the best way to response to critics. If I was selling a product that WAS snake-oil, then my only way to challenge critics would be thru a lawyer. Chuck Gadd http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
"Eric Schreiber" wrote in message ... Rex Grigg wrote: You really have to watch what you say and make sure you don't give opinions anymore. I received this nice email this evening. Just a heads up for all of you. If they've really met with their attorney, maybe they could ask him to write their letters for them in the future, as it's quite clear that Carl Denzer lacks any substantial grammatical skills. Seems to me it should/would be the lawyer's writing and sending the letter, either way. And from my limited experience with litigation, they NEVER send such notifications by email, but always through registered mail. There's some BS going on here somewhere. |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
You make an interesting point. Yes, attorneys do generally write such
letters and send them registered. Sounds like someone in the company may just be threatening to consult with attorneys, which costs $$$, and self-drafted their own "cease and desist letter". -- Bob Alston bobalston9 AT aol DOT com "Aardvark F. Bandersnatch, Esq." wrote in message news:88Wvb.211663$9E1.1136430@attbi_s52... "Eric Schreiber" wrote in message ... Rex Grigg wrote: You really have to watch what you say and make sure you don't give opinions anymore. I received this nice email this evening. Just a heads up for all of you. If they've really met with their attorney, maybe they could ask him to write their letters for them in the future, as it's quite clear that Carl Denzer lacks any substantial grammatical skills. Seems to me it should/would be the lawyer's writing and sending the letter, either way. And from my limited experience with litigation, they NEVER send such notifications by email, but always through registered mail. There's some BS going on here somewhere. |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
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Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
If you bought their product and expressed dis satisfaction,
that would be different, but none of you have done that. All I said about them is their English sucks. It ain't slander because it's true. There is a well known name in the industry who markets products that I have often heard people refer to as snake oil, but if people said that publicaly on the internet, they would be crazy! Because they would get sued and they would lose...most likely. No, I don't think they would. You don't have to buy a perpetual motion machine in order to prove it doesn't work. What usually happens is the thing PSW counted on: people would rather shut up and or pay up than go to court. Am I being over cautious? Maybe I am, but I have good reason to be. The Pets whse thing IS different. Complaining of bad service is not slander. As I recall, you didn't want us speaking up about that, either. Leigh http://www.fortunecity.com/lavender/halloween/881/ |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
(Robert H) wrote:
If you bought their product and expressed dis satisfaction, that would be different, but none of you have done that. No, we've just pointed out that their marketing information sounds a lot like psuedo-science (opinion), that their grammar skills are horrible (true), and point out where NASA (to whom EcoAqualizer attributes it's technology) has dismissed the alleged magical properties of far infrared bioceramics. The Pets whse thing IS different. Complaining of bad service is not slander. Not that it made a difference to the people who Novak sued. -- www.ericschreiber.com |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
Yep,
But I believe it hurts a business a lot if they lose the court of public opinion here on the net. Even if they can beat up on a few very skeptical people with the law. One or two comments is one thing from a poster, but if the person keeps posting nasty stuff about a company, then the company should go after them some. Slander is not good and should never be done. But I will be critical of product even if I have not tried it if they cannot explain how/why it works. A business does not have the right to surpress questioning and by ignoring the questions, they invite this type of situation to arise. Again, they hang themselves by their own rope. They created the issues, not the potential customer. One or two post should certainly be ignored or be addressed on topic about their claims by the company. Last I checked, a sciencist cost less than a lawyer:) And you will get much good will from them vs a lawyer(which no body likes:-) Regards, Tom Barr Chuck Gadd wrote in message . .. On 22 Nov 2003 10:54:18 -0800, ) wrote: Your selling something that requires this approach in sales By not doing that, it makes the consumer both paranoid/suspicious and also the mere fact that you threaten instead of discussing gives a horrid taste in ANY consumer's mouth. I definitely agree with this point. I have my opinion on the product in question based on the pseudo-scientific descriptions, but what makes me most skeptical is that rather than debate the science, they consult lawyers. If there is solid science behind a product, then that seems that discussing that science would be the best way to response to critics. If I was selling a product that WAS snake-oil, then my only way to challenge critics would be thru a lawyer. Chuck Gadd http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
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Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
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Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
I don't know what you are reffering to, but obviously none of this is
getting thru to you. I'm not the enemy here. I'm not involved and I am not the one threatening to sue. Every time something like this comes up, you post warning us of the dire things that can happen to us if we dare say bad things about businesses. If I were the cynical type, I might think you were trying to discourage people from dissing bad service or bad products because you are yourself a business person. But luckily, I'm not, and I assume you are just overly concerned about our welfare. Well, we're all adults. Those of us who have been posting to this thread have been following the PSW mess from the beginning. We know the risks we are taking by speaking out. We know them all too well. Obviously, if we're still speaking out, we've made some decisions about freedom of speech vs. risk of lawsuits. Trust us to make our own decisions, okay? |
Shades of the Petswarehouse Lawsuit!
Slobodan Milosevic is American?!? Funny, he
doesn't sound American--Maybe it's just a Canadian accent or something... -coelacanth "Squidvark" wrote in message ... tose (LeighMo) wrote: They claim to be based in Houston, but you certainly wouldn't know it from their language skills. Near as I can tell, they have their web site hosted with a company in Houston. But if you look at their actual physical addresses (listed on their web site, under "contacts"), they're all overseas, in places like Thailand, the Malta Islands, Indonesia, Singapore, Portugal, etc. If they want to file a lawsuit in the U.S., they're going to have to hire a lawyer. I think they'll find American lawyers are a lot pricier than American webhosting. Careful, they could try you in the International Criminal Court which is designed specifically as a kangaroo court for Americans. |
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