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What are YOU doing for the victims of Katrina?
What are YOU doing for the victims of Katrina?
We all need to do our part. I thought posting what WE are doing might prompt others in doing their par. chaz I am giving money to the Red Cross. I will send clothes if thats a viable thing to do. I know cash always works. |
"chaz" wrote in message
ink.net... What are YOU doing for the victims of Katrina? We all need to do our part. I thought posting what WE are doing might prompt others in doing their par. chaz I am giving money to the Red Cross. I will send clothes if thats a viable thing to do. I know cash always works. Donating supplies, while appreciated isn't as helpful as cash. The red cross then has to pay to ship the supplies, and they often aren't the needed supplies. When the redcross spends money locally, they can get the supplies they need, and it helps restart the local economy. -S |
chaz wrote:
What are YOU doing for the victims of Katrina? We all need to do our part. I thought posting what WE are doing might prompt others in doing their par. chaz I am giving money to the Red Cross. I will send clothes if thats a viable thing to do. I know cash always works. I'm not doing anything at the moment because I'm stuck out-of-town to attend a funeral. When I get back home next week I'm gonna figure out the most tax efficient way to make a large contribution to the Southern Baptist's North American Missions Board. (I'll probably donate a bunch of appreciated stock so I can write off the whole amount without paying capital gains tax first) NAMB sends 100% of contributions to aid disaster victims (I believe they pay their overhead costs from the SB's general fund), and they coordinate their efforts with the Red Cross and the Salvation Army. P.S. Chaz, donate the clothes locally. Local relief agencies are gonna be hurting as hurricane and tsunami relief suck up a lot of the available charity resources. -Bob |
I was going to donate until I heard that they a
1) Looting 2) Raping each other 3) Slitting each others throats 4) Shoooting at police and emergency assistance personnel 5) Robbing jewelry and other valuables from the dead Now I can't even watch TV because of the anarchy/chaos/barbarism, etc. by those affected. I know that desperate times cause for desperate measures, but gangs raping children, and people looting big screen TV's, jewelry and guns makes me sick, and quickly squashes any feelings I may have to donate to this cause. I have been in some pretty bad situations (I am a 18-year military vet), but the things those "Americans" are doing to each other makes me wonder what the world has come to. I expect them to start eating each other pretty soon. If it was me, I would take all the wood that's loose, and make a raft and float and everyone else I can carry back to dry land. And then start walking. I wouldn't be shooting people or raping or any of the other sick things that are happening there. It's just sad. "chaz" wrote in message ink.net... What are YOU doing for the victims of Katrina? We all need to do our part. I thought posting what WE are doing might prompt others in doing their par. chaz I am giving money to the Red Cross. I will send clothes if thats a viable thing to do. I know cash always works. |
chaz wrote in message ... What are YOU doing for the victims of Katrina? ========== None of YOUR ****ing business. |
"zxcvbob" wrote in message
... I'm not doing anything at the moment because I'm stuck out-of-town to attend a funeral. When I get back home next week I'm gonna figure out the most tax efficient way to make a large contribution to the Southern Baptist's North American Missions Board. (I'll probably donate a bunch of appreciated stock so I can write off the whole amount without paying capital gains tax first) Ultimately it's your choice where you donate send your money, however faith based organizations have a history of attempting to bring religion along with their assistance. Better to donate to secular organizations such as the Red Cross. The Red Cross will accept equities as well. -S |
In article , "Snooze"
wrote: "zxcvbob" wrote in message ... I'm not doing anything at the moment because I'm stuck out-of-town to attend a funeral. When I get back home next week I'm gonna figure out the most tax efficient way to make a large contribution to the Southern Baptist's North American Missions Board. (I'll probably donate a bunch of appreciated stock so I can write off the whole amount without paying capital gains tax first) Ultimately it's your choice where you donate send your money, however faith based organizations have a history of attempting to bring religion along with their assistance. Better to donate to secular organizations such as the Red Cross. The Red Cross will accept equities as well. -S DONATIONS TO THE RED CROSS CAN BE DOUBLED IN VALUE by donating through such companies as Kroger stores that have a "matching funds" policy for Katrina relief. Check right where you work to see if they have a matching fund policy, as many do whether you donate to Red Cross or National Public Radio or the local symphony orchestra or the SPCA's Katrina Response. The Red Cross of course uses "popular" crises to raise money broadly, so whoever gives has to not care that Red Cross money is used for crises they never heard about. Anyone who wanted to target specifically Louisiana or New Orleans for personal emotional reasons would want to give to that state's agencies only. Or to Alabama charities; Alabama has it just as bad but they don't have any one city as wonderful as New Orleans so they're getting a bit screwed on this charity business. But one also has to be aware that there have instantly grown up dozens of donation scams (several with their own domain names that look very authentic for on-line giving) & if you never heard of the organization there's way too high a chance it's a fraud. Just because 150 different blog sites say "click here to donate to Katrina" doesn't mean it's legit. It is sometimes just best to stick to places like www.salvationarmyusa.org or redcross.org just so you know you're not giving your credit card info to a fake-out criminal. I wouldn't give to any religious organization unless it was my own faith supposing I had one, as faith charity effectiveness is highly hit & miss with some using a minimal percentage of donations to assist anyone but their own institutional perpetuation. A very few, like the Menonite charity, use the majority of donations to assist, but in the main we individuals aren't qualified to figure out if the methodist or catholic or islamic Katrina charitable claims are wasteful good intentions, badly or well run, or out to do nothing but rebuild a few ruined church properties. Anyone who wants to assist the much overlooked pet population should contact the Louisiana SPCA at www.la-spca.org to make a donation or the Human Society Katrina Response Team. Red Cross has a harmful policy to help no animals, so end up turning many people away from shelters for having a pet they are unwilling to abandon immediately. So the work of the Human Society's Katrina Response Team becomes more important than may at first blush seem probable -- people carrying their dogs or cats are not going to be helped by the Red Cross or most other charities, so give at www.hsus.org or la-spca.org. -paghat the ratgirl -- Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot." -Thomas Jefferson |
"Gideon" wrote in message . .. chaz wrote in message ... What are YOU doing for the victims of Katrina? ========== None of YOUR ****ing business. you are correct, killfile |
With all the help the United Nations is kicking in any meager amount I
could give is too small to make a difference, guess I'm tapped out after donating to the tsunami relief fund. Not being cynical just tired of being the redheaded stepchild. |
I'm donating all my disposable income to the local Sunoco station!
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On 3 Sep 2005 05:34:34 -0700, "tomkanpa" wrote:
I'm donating all my disposable income to the local Sunoco station! Good thinking, Tom. It's the only way to accept that life is a gas! Best wishes Geoff |
wrote in message ... On 3 Sep 2005 05:34:34 -0700, "tomkanpa" wrote: I'm donating all my disposable income to the local Sunoco station! Good thinking, Tom. It's the only way to accept that life is a gas! Best wishes Geoff so what is petrol costing in Scotland, Geoff?? maddie |
tomkanpa wrote:
I'm donating all my disposable income to the local Sunoco station! I'm assuming that the refiners will be donating their extra profits to the relief effort. Here in the Pacific Northwest, our gas prices traditionally have been higher than in the East. And the reason they've always given us is that we can't take advantage of the plentiful supplies in the East because there's no economical way to get any excess over to us except via the Panama Canal. Yet our gas prices have jumped 40-cents a gallon in the last couple of days, and the answer is that it's a shortage because of Katrina. Hmmm. Something isn't adding up here. We don't get the benefit of plentiful supplies in the East, but we suffer the same problems when there's a shortage? So I'm guessing that the refiners on the West Coast are taking advantage of our willingness to accept the higher prices because the extra profit will be donated to the relief effort. It certainly can't be price gouging. Nor could it be that they lied about how the supplies are separate. So it must be that the extra cost at the pumps will be donated to the relief effort. Right? -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. Have an outdoor project? Get a Black & Decker power tool:: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker/ |
On 2005-09-02 15:09:27 -0400, "chaz" said:
What are YOU doing for the victims of Katrina? We all need to do our part. I thought posting what WE are doing might prompt others in doing their par. chaz I am giving money to the Red Cross. I will send clothes if thats a viable thing to do. I know cash always works. I donated to the Red Cross. -- Chris: "Dad, what's a blowhole for?" Peter: "I'll tell you what it's NOT for and then you'll know why I can never go back to Sea World." |
chaz wrote:
What are YOU doing for the victims of Katrina? I'm doing nothing. During 9-10 January, record-breaking rains hit southern California, resulting in a Presidential disaster declaration. The hill in my backyard decided to become part of my lawn. The cost to repair will be about 1.5 times what I originally paid for my house, if I could only get a grading contractor to return my phone calls. This is a loss for which there is no insurance and never was. It's not a flood or earthquake; it's a landslide. And when it is finally repaired, there is no guantantee that it won't slide again. No one had a fund-raising to provide me with any disaster relief. While I have secured a federal disaster loan to pay for the repair, I will have to repay the loan -- from my Social Security and pension since I'm retired. The rains may return in two months and make the slide worse, endangering two homes on the street above me. But no grading contractor will talk to me. In the meantime, the Los Angeles Times today reported that the Army Corps of Engineers repeatedly asked for more funds to renovate and strengthen the levies around New Orleans. But President Bush and Congress repeatedly cut the funding to half or less than what the Army requested. -- David E. Ross |
David Ross wrote:
In the meantime, the Los Angeles Times today reported that the Army Corps of Engineers repeatedly asked for more funds to renovate and strengthen the levies around New Orleans. But President Bush and Congress repeatedly cut the funding to half or less than what the Army requested. That, combined with the unusually slow response from the Federal government, raises a question as to whether the administration has some reason for not wanting New Orleans to exist. Either that, or the administration is headed by an complete idiot. Meanwhile, while the government isn't responding appropriately (and was quite culpable in the problems being as bad as they are), he wants the private sector to pick-up as much of the tab as they can. I wonder how well that'll work? Will the folks who benefited the most from the tax cuts be contributing proportionally the same as the working-class folks are contributing? There are poor folks emptying their savings accounts to help. Which of the folks who benefited the most from the tax cuts that made this disaster so much worse will be doing the same? -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. Have an outdoor project? Get a Black & Decker power tool:: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker/ |
David Ross wrote:
chaz wrote: What are YOU doing for the victims of Katrina? I'm doing nothing. During 9-10 January, record-breaking rains hit southern California, resulting in a Presidential disaster declaration. The hill in my backyard decided to become part of my lawn. The cost to repair will be about 1.5 times what I originally paid for my house, if I could only get a grading contractor to return my phone calls. This is a loss for which there is no insurance and never was. It's not a flood or earthquake; it's a landslide. And when it is finally repaired, there is no guantantee that it won't slide again. No one had a fund-raising to provide me with any disaster relief. While I have secured a federal disaster loan to pay for the repair, I will have to repay the loan -- from my Social Security and pension since I'm retired. The rains may return in two months and make the slide worse, endangering two homes on the street above me. But no grading contractor will talk to me. In the meantime, the Los Angeles Times today reported that the Army Corps of Engineers repeatedly asked for more funds to renovate and strengthen the levies around New Orleans. But President Bush and Congress repeatedly cut the funding to half or less than what the Army requested. I sit and watch the rains and landslides in CA almost every year. Most of those houses that slide are so precariously built on the side of the hills and they seem to just be asking for trouble. What I can't understand is why people live in places like this? It doesn't look like it takes much for them to slide. What's with that? I've been in CA and I know that all the houses in that area aren't perched on the side of the hills. What gives? Pat |
"tomkanpa" wrote in message
oups.com... I'm donating all my disposable income to the local Sunoco station! Sounds right to me. :-) My wife topped off our gas tank with seven gallons of gas before it went higher. Cost: $21.00+ |
wrote in message
oups.com... With all the help the United Nations is kicking in any meager amount I could give is too small to make a difference, guess I'm tapped out after donating to the tsunami relief fund. Not being cynical just tired of being the redheaded stepchild. Donations to Katrina leave me with a nothing feeling. I regularly donate to many good causes, but this is a disaster that the government should cover totally. Why should ordinary people with very ordinary incomes donate to Katrina victims when the government can afford to spend a billion dollars a day in Iraq. If you have been keeping up with the news, you should be aware that Senate Majority leader Bill Frist of Tennessee (Yes, he's the same doctor who declared the Florida woman not brain dead without actually examining her.) introduced a bill today that abolishes all inheritance taxes (a.k.a.death taxes in Republican speak). What people do not realize is that it affect less than 5% of the population and really affect .5% of the mega wealthy. It sounds as if Frist is sneaking this bill in while no one is paying attention. Ordinary people should never jump on this double speak wagon that only makes the rich richer. If the government can afford these kind of expenditures along with the tax cuts for the rich, it sure as hell can afford taking care of its own citizens in this time of desperate need. It's also time the Republicans had their feet put in the fire. Yes, I'm a cynic also. JPS |
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 21:19:17 GMT, "John" wrote:
It's just sad. And your ability for critical thinking is shamefully sophomoric.. Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel. -- Aldo Leopold |
Based on what??
Are you attacking me now?? If so, this is exactly what I mean...people attacking other people seems to be the way ( New Orleans). You prove my point exactly! How's that for "critical thinking"? :) What are YOU doing for the victims besides attacking others in newsgroups?? Hmmmm....?? :) "Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message ... On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 21:19:17 GMT, "John" wrote: It's just sad. And your ability for critical thinking is shamefully sophomoric.. Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel. -- Aldo Leopold |
PatK wrote:
David Ross wrote: chaz wrote: What are YOU doing for the victims of Katrina? I'm doing nothing. During 9-10 January, record-breaking rains hit southern California, resulting in a Presidential disaster declaration. The hill in my backyard decided to become part of my lawn. The cost to repair will be about 1.5 times what I originally paid for my house, if I could only get a grading contractor to return my phone calls. This is a loss for which there is no insurance and never was. It's not a flood or earthquake; it's a landslide. And when it is finally repaired, there is no guantantee that it won't slide again. No one had a fund-raising to provide me with any disaster relief. While I have secured a federal disaster loan to pay for the repair, I will have to repay the loan -- from my Social Security and pension since I'm retired. The rains may return in two months and make the slide worse, endangering two homes on the street above me. But no grading contractor will talk to me. In the meantime, the Los Angeles Times today reported that the Army Corps of Engineers repeatedly asked for more funds to renovate and strengthen the levies around New Orleans. But President Bush and Congress repeatedly cut the funding to half or less than what the Army requested. I sit and watch the rains and landslides in CA almost every year. Most of those houses that slide are so precariously built on the side of the hills and they seem to just be asking for trouble. What I can't understand is why people live in places like this? It doesn't look like it takes much for them to slide. What's with that? I've been in CA and I know that all the houses in that area aren't perched on the side of the hills. What gives? I'm not "perched on the side of the hills". The land had a moderate slope. But to build houses and streets, the slope was graded to create level lots. Between the lots on my street and the lots on the street up-slope, the result was a steeper slope than previously existed. The same is true between the lots across the street from me and the lots on the street down-slope. No house on my block or the blocks above or below me is "precariously built on the side of the hills". I own the slope in my back yard. I'm at the bottom and thus do not get the great view across the community enjoyed by my neighbors behind me or by the neighbors across the street from me. -- David E. Ross URL:http://www.rossde.com/ I use Mozilla as my Web browser because I want a browser that complies with Web standards. See URL:http://www.mozilla.org/. |
On Sun, 04 Sep 2005 16:11:28 GMT, "John" wrote:
Based on what?? Based on your feeding frenzy on the negative press, guess what....not all or even a majority of victims are involved in, to quote you... 1) Looting 2) Raping each other 3) Slitting each others throats 4) Shoooting at police and emergency assistance personnel 5) Robbing jewelry and other valuables from the dead Are you attacking me now?? No simply pointing out that your excuse for not helping is pretty lame and lacks much thought. If so, this is exactly what I mean...people attacking other people seems to be the way ( New Orleans). You prove my point exactly Point proven? I simply pointed out your lack of logic,, hardly akin to raped and murder. How's that for "critical thinking"? :) Pretty lame, but expected... What are YOU doing for the victims besides attacking others in newsgroups?? Hmmmm....?? Attacking others? which others? Besides poor overly sensitive John who uses lame excuses for not helping? Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel. -- Aldo Leopold |
My family will give money to OUR LOCAL RED CROSS as we know what a
great job they are doing here as we have fairly large groups, (comes and goes to some extent so numbers fluctuate) but they are, along with our churches, housing, feeding and what ever, Katrina's Evacuees. They are on the job 24/365 here in our town ready to help the fire department, the police, works with CERTS, houses and provides for people who have been burned out...and many other things. They are among the first responders. Respectfully, lee |
David Ross wrote:
PatK wrote: David Ross wrote: chaz wrote: What are YOU doing for the victims of Katrina? I'm doing nothing. During 9-10 January, record-breaking rains hit southern California, resulting in a Presidential disaster declaration. The hill in my backyard decided to become part of my lawn. The cost to repair will be about 1.5 times what I originally paid for my house, if I could only get a grading contractor to return my phone calls. This is a loss for which there is no insurance and never was. It's not a flood or earthquake; it's a landslide. And when it is finally repaired, there is no guantantee that it won't slide again. No one had a fund-raising to provide me with any disaster relief. While I have secured a federal disaster loan to pay for the repair, I will have to repay the loan -- from my Social Security and pension since I'm retired. The rains may return in two months and make the slide worse, endangering two homes on the street above me. But no grading contractor will talk to me. In the meantime, the Los Angeles Times today reported that the Army Corps of Engineers repeatedly asked for more funds to renovate and strengthen the levies around New Orleans. But President Bush and Congress repeatedly cut the funding to half or less than what the Army requested. I sit and watch the rains and landslides in CA almost every year. Most of those houses that slide are so precariously built on the side of the hills and they seem to just be asking for trouble. What I can't understand is why people live in places like this? It doesn't look like it takes much for them to slide. What's with that? I've been in CA and I know that all the houses in that area aren't perched on the side of the hills. What gives? I'm not "perched on the side of the hills". The land had a moderate slope. But to build houses and streets, the slope was graded to create level lots. Between the lots on my street and the lots on the street up-slope, the result was a steeper slope than previously existed. The same is true between the lots across the street from me and the lots on the street down-slope. No house on my block or the blocks above or below me is "precariously built on the side of the hills". I own the slope in my back yard. I'm at the bottom and thus do not get the great view across the community enjoyed by my neighbors behind me or by the neighbors across the street from me. I wasn't saying that you personally were doing this, but it just brought to mind all of the tv coverage of the landslides out there. I was just amazed at the amount of people who do. That's all. Pat |
"Warren" wrote in message ... David Ross wrote: In the meantime, the Los Angeles Times today reported that the Army Corps of Engineers repeatedly asked for more funds to renovate and strengthen the levies around New Orleans. But President Bush and Congress repeatedly cut the funding to half or less than what the Army requested. That, combined with the unusually slow response from the Federal government, What was unusual or slow about it? Which disaster of similar magnitude ever had a faster response? raises a question as to whether the administration has some reason for not wanting New Orleans to exist. What reasons are those? Are there other cities on the "cease to exist" list? Either that, or the administration is headed by an complete idiot. Expecting some nefarious plot to destroy NO might require a "complete idiot" ......do you feel a special kinship with the President? Meanwhile, while the government isn't responding appropriately What specifically should they have done to be appropriate? (and was quite culpable in the problems being as bad as they are), Which problems are these? You do know that levee failure was in the new recently built part of the flood control project? he wants the private sector to pick-up as much of the tab as they can. I wonder how well that'll work? Would it be better if he refused any and all private fiscal participation? Will the folks who benefited the most from the tax cuts be contributing proportionally the same as the working-class folks are contributing? What does charitable giving disaster or otherwise have to do with across the board tax cuts? There are poor folks emptying their savings accounts to help. How many and who? Which of the folks who benefited the most from the tax cuts that made this disaster so much worse will be doing the same? Warren H. How did this or any tax cut make this disaster worse?.....Do Hurricanes get power or energy from tax cuts? Since the tax cuts dropped millions of people from the tax rolls entirely do these poor people have a special obligation at disaster relief? Just curious Rod |
Rod & Betty Jo wrote:
How did this or any tax cut make this disaster worse?.....Do Hurricanes get power or energy from tax cuts? I'll try to make this as simple as possible so you don't get confused this time: The hurricane was a natural disaster. The levee break was not. The levee break was a result of deferring necessary maintenance because Federal funds to maintain the levee were reduced to the point that the levee could not be properly maintained. The Federal funds were cut because the Federal government didn't have the money to pay the bills. They didn't have the money not just because they are spending it elsewhere, but because they cut taxes despite needing more money. The folks who benefited most from the ill-timed tax cuts were the very rich. (Judging from your grasp of the situation, I'm going to guess that you either inherited your money, or you're so far from the top that you have no perception of just how much they benefited compared to how you didn't.) In 2001 FEMA identified the top three possible major disasters. They were a terrorist attack on New York, an earthquake in San Francisco, and a levee break after a hurricane in New Orleans. Despite that, funding for levee maintenance was still cut below minimum levels. So over four years ago, the President had information warning him that there was an impending problem. Instead of taking the prudent course, and increasing funding for the levees to fortify them, funding was cut to a level that wouldn't even properly maintain what was already in place. So the cause of the flood was not a hurricane last week. It was a series of decisions over the last four years to cut funding for the levees that caused the inevitable flood. When the flood happened may not have been predictable until 4 or 5 days before it happened, but it's inevitability was not just predictable -- it was planned. Was it planned out of malice or ignorance? Your call. Evil or stupid. Given the evidence that was available for *at least* four years, the fiscal actions taken by the administration were either evil or stupid. They had the reports and data. They can't claim ignorance. The best they can do is claim they were too stupid to read or understand the information they had. So what was the motivation to not fund the levees? Saving money. It was one of the many spending cuts that resulted from a tax cut. A tax cut that gave me a whopping $600, but included provisions that gave so much more (not just in raw dollars, but proportionally) to those making seven-digit incomes. So when you look at what the private sector is contributing in post-disaster relief, are those people contributing as much as the common guy? There are poor people out there emptying their savings accounts, increasing their debt, and forgoing groceries so they can contribute. Are any of the 20% of the richest folks in the nation making that kind of sacrifice? Are their any that are donating all of their disposable income to post-disaster relief? Are their any who are even giving the difference between what they would have paid in taxes pre-cuts and what they're paying now? Or are they just writing checks that look big to people who have no money, but are pocket change to them? The break of the levees was inevitable. The President knew that. He still put a tax cut for the rich as a higher priority than addressing the levee problem. So was he evil or stupid in doing so? -- Warren H. ========== Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife. Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants to go outside now. Have an outdoor project? Get a Black & Decker power tool:: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker/ |
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Rod & Betty Jo wrote [in part]:
"Warren" wrote in message ... [also in part] That, combined with the unusually slow response from the Federal government, What was unusual or slow about it? Which disaster of similar magnitude ever had a faster response? Almost 100 years ago -- in an era of slower communication and much slower transportation -- the federal response to the San Francisco earthquake was much quicker. See the partial timeline at my URL:http://www.rossde.com/ (timeline data from the Virtual Museum of the City of San Francisco). -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19) Gardening pages at URL:http://www.rossde.com/garden/ |
"Warren" expounded:
So the cause of the flood was not a hurricane last week. It was a series of decisions over the last four years to cut funding for the levees that caused the inevitable flood Yea, but who made the decisions? http://www.gopusa.com/news/2005/sept...katrina1.shtml -- Ann, gardening in Zone 6a South of Boston, Massachusetts e-mail address is not checked ****************************** |
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 17:59:26 -0400, Ann wrote:
Yea, but who made the decisions? Thanks for the balanced view sarcasm intended please quote the original articles NOT the GOP!!!!! Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel. -- Aldo Leopold |
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:41:32 -0400, Cheryl Isaak
wrote: Hey Warren, these levees were a known problem as far back as the 70's; the Army Corp of Engineers were warning of a potential disaster and have been ignored by Democratic presidents as well as the Republicans ones. Where does that fit in your scheme of things? Cause those funds have been lacking for more than 8 years. Data please? That being said, yes there are idjets on both sides of the aisle! Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel. -- Aldo Leopold |
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"Warren" wrote in message ... I'll try to make this as simple as possible so you don't get confused this time: The hurricane was a natural disaster. The levee break was not. The levee break was a result of deferring necessary maintenance because Federal funds to maintain the levee were reduced to the point that the levee could not be properly maintained. But that is not a true statement......Are you lying or simply ignorant? The Federal funds were cut because the Federal government didn't have the money to pay the bills. They didn't have the money not just because they are spending it elsewhere, but because they cut taxes despite needing more money. The folks who benefited most from the ill-timed tax cuts were the very rich. (Judging from your grasp of the situation, I'm going to guess that you either inherited your money, or you're so far from the top that you have no perception of just how much they benefited compared to how you didn't.) Speaking of timing...with a rather severe recession the Gov. had basically 3 choices...do nothing, increase spending or cut taxes. I suppose any of the three have their adherents however with tax cuts your putting money in hands of the actual consummers and allowing the market place to decide what is needed or important.....Since we are having a rather robust recovery and did not sink into extended stagflation or a lengthly recession one might surmise the tax cuts worked as intended. Cutting the top tax rate from approx. 37% to 35% is pretty easy to grasp......With the rather large deficit accusing the Gov. of not spending enough is rather silly. Incidentally with a budget that is well over 2 trillion dollars the tax rate cut on those whom already pay over 80% of all income taxes amounted to less than 100 billion. A rather small piece if you think about it. In 2001 FEMA identified the top three possible major disasters. They were a terrorist attack on New York, an earthquake in San Francisco, and a levee break after a hurricane in New Orleans. Despite that, funding for levee maintenance was still cut below minimum levels. Your rather confused over maintenance and capital projects......There was no maintenance cuts but rather a future slowdown in capital improvements.... of which "future" expenditures have no bearing on preventing past events. These kind of construction projects also require local participation, NO has been notably cheap or reluctant to pay a large local share.....in fact they have paid a much smaller share of the hundreds of millions already spent than other cities so desiring these projects.....in other words the locals weren't all that interested in protecting their city. Nonetheless there is no possibility that any flood control/ levee project began or finished (these projects require decades to design and complete)) during Bushes tenure would have made a appreciable difference to the failure of this rather new section of the canal that failed. It appears that the actual levees on the lake held quite well and that the pumping canal wall collapsed. So over four years ago, the President had information warning him that there was an impending problem. Instead of taking the prudent course, and increasing funding for the levees to fortify them, funding was cut to a level that wouldn't even properly maintain what was already in place. Actually any likely multi-billion dollar effort began then would have made no difference here.......These flood control projects are measured by the decade in both conception and construction......In fact the canal section that collapsed was rather new. Building for a Cat 5 might be nice but it is possibly not affordable...moving the city might be cheaper.....300 miles of levees is no trivial undertaking.....one might even surmise the near billion spent there in the last 2 decades might have afforded some protection. So the cause of the flood was not a hurricane last week. It was a series of decisions over the last four years to cut funding for the levees that caused the inevitable flood. When the flood happened may not have been predictable until 4 or 5 days before it happened, but it's inevitability was not just predictable -- it was planned. If one builds logic on a falsehood the general result is more falsehoods Was it planned out of malice or ignorance? Your call. Evil or stupid. Given the evidence that was available for *at least* four years, the fiscal actions taken by the administration were either evil or stupid. They had the reports and data. They can't claim ignorance. The best they can do is claim they were too stupid to read or understand the information they had. Since any action they took or could have taken has no bearing on this flood outcome your conclusion is suspect. Incidentally NO has been there for over 300 years, Hurricanes have happened since time began........Concluding that anything in the last 4 years has much to do with either is simply silly. So what was the motivation to not fund the levees? Saving money. It was one of the many spending cuts that resulted from a tax cut. A tax cut that gave me a whopping $600, but included provisions that gave so much more (not just in raw dollars, but proportionally) to those making seven-digit incomes. Nonetheless bigger, smaller or no tax cuts would have made no difference So when you look at what the private sector is contributing in post-disaster relief, are those people contributing as much as the common guy? There are poor people out there emptying their savings accounts, increasing their debt, and forgoing groceries so they can contribute. Are any of the 20% of the richest folks in the nation making that kind of sacrifice? Are their any that are donating all of their disposable income to post-disaster relief? Are their any who are even giving the difference between what they would have paid in taxes pre-cuts and what they're paying now? Or are they just writing checks that look big to people who have no money, but are pocket change to them? Quite the rant.....nonsensical to the subject at hand with no way to qualify and pointless to boot. The break of the levees was inevitable. The President knew that. He still put a tax cut for the rich as a higher priority than addressing the levee problem. So was he evil or stupid in doing so? Warren H. There are potential safety public work projects across the land be it storm, flood or volcano. Deciding how public funds are to be spent is fraught with choices and tradeoffs......not every conceivable danger can be addressed. In fact even if they are disasters will always be with us. I suppose a 100% tax rate might pay for more and grander public works but many people might prefer to eat.....Rod |
Tom Jaszewski expounded:
Thanks for the balanced view sarcasm intended please quote the original articles NOT the GOP!!!!! Oh, go find it yourself, you've got all the info you need. Doesn't matter where it comes from, the info is the same. It just doesn't support your moonbat blame game and that really ****es you off, huh? Sarcasm intended. -- Ann, gardening in Zone 6a South of Boston, Massachusetts e-mail address is not checked ****************************** |
"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message ... .. One source was Scientific American (before 1976) which referenced a recent report from the Army Corp of Engineers on the poor engineering design of the levees. What stuck was how either a 100 year flooding of the Mississippi or a hurricane could overflow the levees or so weaken them as to potentially destroy the city. Cheryl Might be why they have spent nearly a billion dollars on those levees (flood control) in the past 25 years...... Rod |
On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 20:08:04 -0400, Ann wrote:
It just doesn't support your moonbat blame game and that really ****es you off, huh? Actually what ****es me off are your assumptions about a blame game...so unknot your panties and recognize that had I posted the Demicans slant you would have at least felt as if you had a snuggie! BTW what does readers digest say....sheesh.... Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel. -- Aldo Leopold |
|
Interesting that the following article says NOTHING about the Orleans Levee
board: http://www.editorandpublisher.com/ea..._id=1001051313 I'm trying to research just what the Orleans Levee Board is, and what its responsibilities are, but the best I can ascertain is that the Corps of Army Engineers was supposed to be in charge of the actually construction of the Levees - possibly the Levee Board oversaw improvements in the vicinity of the Levee. Without further information, I will have to regard the GOP article as a smokescreen to avoid owning up to its responsibility for at least part of the disaster. |
On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 01:06:22 -0700, "presley"
wrote: Without further information, I will have to regard the GOP article as a smokescreen to avoid owning up to its responsibility for at least part of the disaster. imagine that.... President Bush and Republican leaders are trying to shift blame for the poor rescue and relief effort to the victims of Hurricane Katrina including state and local officials. Don't let them get away with that. Sign a petition today demanding the president stop the blame-shifting and get to work helping Hurricane victims. Petition delivery will start tomorrow in Washington, D.C. Dear MoveOn member, It has been a week since Hurricane Katrina devastated the Gulf Coast, leveled New Orleans and left hundreds of thousands of Americans homeless. We saw the best of America during that time—millions of people stepped forward to offer help. Meanwhile, the Bush administration failed at their most important job: keeping America safe. The federal effort was too little, too late and it is now becoming obvious that hundreds or even thousands of people died as a result. Then, starting Friday, in a Karl Rove-led campaign, the White House started to blame state and local officials and even the victims who were stranded without transportation when the Hurricane arrived. Sign our petition demanding that the Bush administration stop blaming victims, including state and local officials, and focus on helping them. http://political.moveon.org/helpvict...ZG_QahSOhQ&t=3 We'll begin to deliver the earliest signatures to the White House tomorrow, Thursday, when a delegation of MoveOn members from New Orleans, who are now homeless and will come to Washington and join other MoveOn members outside the White House at a petition delivery and protest. The petition is one important way to demonstrate that the public wants more action to help hurricane victims and is getting angry about this blame-shifting game the Bush administration is playing. It is important that the Bush administration not get away with shifting their responsibility to local officials. Here is what actually happened. Timeline Friday, Aug. 26: Gov. Kathleen Blanco declares a state of emergency in Louisiana and requests troop assistance. Saturday, Aug. 27: Gov. Blanco asks for federal state of emergency. A federal emergency is declared giving federal officials the authority to get involved. Sunday, Aug. 28: Mayor Ray Nagin orders mandatory evacuation of New Orleans. President Bush warned of Levee failure by National Hurricane Center. National Weather Service predicts area will be "uninhabitable" after Hurricane arrives. First reports of water toppling over the levee appear in local paper. Monday, Aug. 29: Levee breaches and New Orleans begins to fill with water, Bush travels to Arizona and California to discuss Medicare. FEMA chief finally responds to federal emergency, dispatching employees but giving them two days to arrive on site. Tuesday, Aug. 30: Mass looting reported, security shortage cited in New Orleans. Pentagon says that local authorities have adequate National Guard units to handle hurricane needs despite governor's earlier request. Bush returns to Crawford for final day of vacation. TV coverage is around-the-clock Hurricane news. Wednesday, Aug. 31: Tens of thousands trapped in New Orleans including at Convention Center and Superdome in "medieval" conditions. President Bush finally returns to Washington to establish a task force to coordinate federal response. Local authorities run out of food and water supplies. Thursday, Sept. 1: New Orleans descends into anarchy. New Orleans Mayor issues a "Desperate SOS" to federal government. Bush claims nobody predicted the breach of the levees despite multiple warnings and his earlier briefing. Friday, Sept. 2: Karl Rove begins Bush administration campaign to blame state and local officials—despite their repeated requests for help. Bush stages a photo-op—diverting Coast Guard helicopters and crew to act as backdrop for cameras. Levee repair work orchestrated for president's visit and White House press corps. Saturday, Sept. 3: Bush blames state and local officials. Senior administration official (possibly Rove) caught in a lie claiming Gov. Blanco had not declared a state of emergency or asked for help. Monday, Sept. 5: New Orleans officials begin to collect their dead. (Adapted from: Katrina Timeline, http://thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline/ ) Those are the facts. State and local officials BEGGED for help as people in their city suffered. The Bush administration didn't get the job done and when their failure became an embarrassment they attacked those asking for help. The New York Times reported on Friday that Karl Rove and White House communications director Dan Bartlett "rolled out a plan...to contain the political damage from the administration's response to Hurricane Katrina." The core of the strategy is "to shift the blame away from the White House and toward officials of New Orleans and Louisiana." This is the same pattern of smearing that the Bush political machine has used for a decade. John McCain and John Kerry had their war records smeared. The CIA cover of Ambassador Joseph Wilson's wife was blown after he criticized the Bush Iraq policy. Now, Hurricane victims are attacked when the Bush administration failed to do their duty to help them. It isn't just the Bush administration. Republican Senator Rick Santorum blamed victims in a TV interview and House Speaker Dennis Hastert suggested New Orleans should not be rebuilt. We can't let them get away with this. Please sign our petition today and do your part. http://political.moveon.org/helpvict...ZG_QahSOhQ&t=4 This is just the first step. We need to continue to help those in need directly and make sure our government does their job. There will be a time to figure out who specifically to blame and what to change. In the meantime, the Bush administration needs to get to work helping those in need. Thanks for all you do, –Tom, Tanya, Joan, Jennifer and the MoveOn.org Political Action Team Wednesday, September 7th, 2005 P.S. Check out these links for more on the Hurricane relief efforts. Katrina Timeline, ThinkProgress.org http://thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline/ Editorial: No time for turf wars. The Times-Picayune, September 7, 2005. http://www.moveon.org/r?r=869 Editorial blasts federal response. CNN, September 4, 2005. http://www.moveon.org/r?r=870 The big disconnect on New Orleans. CNN, September 2, 2005. http://www.moveon.org/r?r=871 PAID FOR BY MOVEON.ORG POLITICAL ACTION Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel. -- Aldo Leopold |
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