hi

i actually know very little about gardening but my mom and i are in need of some serious help.

We live in South Africa, which can be a harsh climate for plants especially in one bed by the swimming pool, there is no way we can get anything to grow there because of the heat, do u have any suggestions?

i would also like to know wat sort of small plant would do well in full shade all day(if there are any), preferably with flowers.

my mom loves gardening but she unfortunately cannot do much of it herself lately because her back is so bad, i would like to help her(maybe give her a 'present' for christmas) by fixing our garedn up. Please help it would be much appreciated.

polywogle wrote:
hi

i actually know very little about gardening but my mom and i
are in
need of some serious help.

We live in South Africa, which can be a harsh climate for
plants
especially in one bed by the swimming pool, there is no way we
can
get anything to grow there because of the heat, do u have any
suggestions?

i would also like to know wat sort of small plant would do well
in
full shade all day(if there are any), preferably with flowers.

my mom loves gardening but she unfortunately cannot do much of
it
herself lately because her back is so bad, i would like to help
her(maybe give her a 'present' for christmas) by fixing our
garedn
up. Please help it would be much appreciated.

Let your mother sit in the shade and direct you to do what she
would do if her back wasn't bad.

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8
Sunset Zone 5

What exactly are you tring to grow perenials, Annuals, or vegetables.
if you know your grow zone it would easier to tell what and how you
should grow your plants
Chuckie

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:10:34 +0000, polywogle
wrote:


hi

i actually know very little about gardening but my mom and i are in
need of some serious help.

We live in South Africa, which can be a harsh climate for plants

Mmm...some of the most gorgeous plants and shrubs in our nurseries and
gardens come from South Africa!

especially in one bed by the swimming pool, there is no way we can get
anything to grow there because of the heat, do u have any suggestions?

Is it the heat, or is it the fumes from the stuff you put in the pool?
Or is there underground leakage of chlorinated water?

i would also like to know wat sort of small plant would do well in full
shade all day(if there are any), preferably with flowers.

my mom loves gardening but she unfortunately cannot do much of it
herself lately because her back is so bad, i would like to help
her(maybe give her a 'present' for christmas) by fixing our garedn up.
Please help it would be much appreciated.

It's very nice that you are planning to help your mother with
gardening. Sounds like you need to educate yourself on plants,
which can be a fun process, trust me!

To begin with, there are garden books in your neighborhood book
some of which specifically deal with your local climate.

Also in the library, if you can't afford books.

Also, go to your neighorhood plant nursery and ask them
what would work. Take a diagram of your garden; a rough
sketch is good enough.

Try to tell the nursery where the sun hits your garden at
various times of the year. I realize you haven't been
studying the sun's movements, so this is a good time to start.
Ex: Do not put shade plants where they will be scorched
by strong Western sun. But don't put them in total darkness either!

Also, of course, and this is the biggie in our lives: The Web.
Sometimes I think youngsters don't appreciate the incredible
resources available at the click of a mouse. No need to go to the
library, get help from a reference librarian [1], go through umpty
books, and make copies of needed articles, etc.

[1] Reference librarians are among the GREATEST resources
of any civilized society. People don't realize the amount
of training that goes into that job.]

So, to identify plants suitable for your area, go to the Web, search
via Google or some other search engine. Input the keywords that appear
in your message:

Example: [exact location] South Africa. Small flowering shade
plants. (BTW - there are not many such; flowering plants usually
require sun. There is Clivia, which has gorgeous orange flowers;
some Azaleas can manage in part shade

(I'm posting from Southern California Coastal, which is your basic
Mediterranean climate; not too hot; not too cold = ideal!
Only"downside" is a limited rainy season, +- November - March.
But who knows what will happen, what with global warming...!]

Just a quick trip to the Web, since I don't know your exact location,
elicited the name Kirstenbosch National Botanical Garden, Capetown.
You could probably ask them for help/advice/buying plants, or referral
to a Botanical Garden or other resource more suitable for your
exact location.

OK - this is a a lot of information, but what it adds up to is this:

You need to educate yourself about what plants would do well
in various parts of your garden. It's FUN!

-

Persephone

Sout Africa has the greatest diversity and greatest number of native plant
species than anywhere else on the planet. Many popular garden flowers and
greenhouse plants originate from South Africa.

If you can't find any plants to your liking to grow, you surely haven't been
looking very hard. Check with one of the many botanical gardens in your
country for ideas on which plants to grow in your area.


Persephone wrote in message
...
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:10:34 +0000, polywogle
wrote:


hi

i actually know very little about gardening but my mom and i are in
need of some serious help.

We live in South Africa, which can be a harsh climate for plants

Mmm...some of the most gorgeous plants and shrubs in our nurseries and
gardens come from South Africa!

especially in one bed by the swimming pool, there is no way we can get
anything to grow there because of the heat, do u have any suggestions?

Is it the heat, or is it the fumes from the stuff you put in the pool?
Or is there underground leakage of chlorinated water?

i would also like to know wat sort of small plant would do well in full
shade all day(if there are any), preferably with flowers.

my mom loves gardening but she unfortunately cannot do much of it
herself lately because her back is so bad, i would like to help
her(maybe give her a 'present' for christmas) by fixing our garedn up.
Please help it would be much appreciated.

It's very nice that you are planning to help your mother with
gardening. Sounds like you need to educate yourself on plants,
which can be a fun process, trust me!

To begin with, there are garden books in your neighborhood book
some of which specifically deal with your local climate.

Also in the library, if you can't afford books.

Also, go to your neighorhood plant nursery and ask them
what would work. Take a diagram of your garden; a rough
sketch is good enough.

Try to tell the nursery where the sun hits your garden at
various times of the year. I realize you haven't been
studying the sun's movements, so this is a good time to start.
Ex: Do not put shade plants where they will be scorched
by strong Western sun. But don't put them in total darkness either!

Also, of course, and this is the biggie in our lives: The Web.
Sometimes I think youngsters don't appreciate the incredible
resources available at the click of a mouse. No need to go to the
library, get help from a reference librarian [1], go through umpty
books, and make copies of needed articles, etc.

[1] Reference librarians are among the GREATEST resources
of any civilized society. People don't realize the amount
of training that goes into that job.]

So, to identify plants suitable for your area, go to the Web, search
via Google or some other search engine. Input the keywords that appear
in your message:

Example: [exact location] South Africa. Small flowering shade
plants. (BTW - there are not many such; flowering plants usually
require sun. There is Clivia, which has gorgeous orange flowers;
some Azaleas can manage in part shade

(I'm posting from Southern California Coastal, which is your basic
Mediterranean climate; not too hot; not too cold = ideal!
Only"downside" is a limited rainy season, +- November - March.
But who knows what will happen, what with global warming...!]

Just a quick trip to the Web, since I don't know your exact location,
elicited the name Kirstenbosch National Botanical Garden, Capetown.
You could probably ask them for help/advice/buying plants, or referral
to a Botanical Garden or other resource more suitable for your
exact location.

OK - this is a a lot of information, but what it adds up to is this:

You need to educate yourself about what plants would do well
in various parts of your garden. It's FUN!

-

Persephone

wow!! thanks for all the tips, i'm sure its gonna make a big diff in my education

the bed by the swimming pool is affected by the heat and some chlorinated water (and the dogs but i have a plan for them). I was thinking of planting succulents there and covering the rest of the sand with pretty gravel.

oh and is horse manure good for plants? (i know that it smells better than cow manure and i can get it cheaply coz i own a horse hehe)

But how you keep all the rhinosauruses out of the garden, or the gorillas
and orangutans from eating the plants???

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 09:47:04 +0000, polywogle
wrote:
[color=blue]

Persephone Wrote:[color=green]
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:10:34 +0000, polywogle
wrote:



Is it the heat, or is it the fumes from the stuff you put in the pool?
Or is there underground leakage of chlorinated water?

To begin with, there are garden books in your neighborhood book
some of which specifically deal with your local climate.

Also in the library, if you can't afford books.

Also, go to your neighorhood plant nursery and ask them
what would work. Take a diagram of your garden; a rough
sketch is good enough.

Try to tell the nursery where the sun hits your garden at
various times of the year. I realize you haven't been
studying the sun's movements, so this is a good time to start.
Ex: Do not put shade plants where they will be scorched
by strong Western sun. But don't put them in total darkness either!

Also, of course, and this is the biggie in our lives: The Web.
Sometimes I think youngsters don't appreciate the incredible
resources available at the click of a mouse. No need to go to the
library, get help from a reference librarian [1], go through umpty
books, and make copies of needed articles, etc.

[1] Reference librarians are among the GREATEST resources
of any civilized society. People don't realize the amount
of training that goes into that job.]

So, to identify plants suitable for your area, go to the Web, search
via Google or some other search engine. Input the keywords that appear
in your message:

Example: [exact location] South Africa. Small flowering shade
plants. (BTW - there are not many such; flowering plants usually
require sun. There is Clivia, which has gorgeous orange flowers;
some Azaleas can manage in part shade

(I'm posting from Southern California Coastal, which is your basic
Mediterranean climate; not too hot; not too cold = ideal!
Only"downside" is a limited rainy season, +- November - March.
But who knows what will happen, what with global warming...!]

Just a quick trip to the Web, since I don't know your exact location,
elicited the name Kirstenbosch National Botanical Garden, Capetown.
You could probably ask them for help/advice/buying plants, or referral
to a Botanical Garden or other resource more suitable for your
exact location.

OK - this is a a lot of information, but what it adds up to is this:

You need to educate yourself about what plants would do well
in various parts of your garden. It's FUN!

-

Persephone

wow!! thanks for all the tips, i'm sure its gonna make a big diff in my
education

the bed by the swimming pool is affected by the heat and some
chlorinated water (and the dogs but i have a plan for them). I was
thinking of planting succulents there and covering the rest of the sand
with pretty gravel.

oh and is horse manure good for plants? (i know that it smells better
than cow manure and i can get it cheaply coz i own a horse hehe)

AFAIK, manure has to be well-rotted. If you put it on fresh from the
critter, it could burn plants. This is esp. true for chicken manure,
but also for horsie doo-doo. So I hope you have a place to pile
up the lovely stuff and let it age.

If somebody else has input on this manure-rotting, I'd like
to get your .02. Thanks.

--

Persephone


--

"Other than telling us how to live, think,
marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children,
and now, die,I think the Republicans have
done a fine job of getting government out
of our personal lives."

Not true
chicken manure will not burn your plant if handled properly.
When using it make sure it is dry spread it out to your preference
amoug your plant but do pile it, because it will burn the soil in that
area and you will not be able grow anything in that area.
Chuckie

On 26 Oct 2005 19:15:40 -0700, "Chuckie" wrote:

Not true
chicken manure will not burn your plant if handled properly.
When using it make sure it is dry spread it out to your preference
amoug your plant but do pile it, because it will burn the soil in that
area and you will not be able grow anything in that area.
Chuckie

Respectfully disagee. Chickie doo-doo is the most potent. It
does have the capability of burning if (as you indicate) it is
improperly applied, but most sources I have consulted in [censored]
years of gardening hold that ALL manure should be well-rotted, or if
you prefer the phrasing -- not hot from the out source g

Persephone


--

"Other than telling us how to live, think,
marry, pray, vote, invest, educate our children,
and now, die,I think the Republicans have
done a fine job of getting government out
of our personal lives."

In article , Persephone wrote:

On 26 Oct 2005 19:15:40 -0700, "Chuckie" wrote:

Not true
chicken manure will not burn your plant if handled properly.
When using it make sure it is dry spread it out to your preference
amoug your plant but do pile it, because it will burn the soil in that
area and you will not be able grow anything in that area.
Chuckie

Respectfully disagee. Chickie doo-doo is the most potent. It
does have the capability of burning if (as you indicate) it is
improperly applied, but most sources I have consulted in [censored]
years of gardening hold that ALL manure should be well-rotted, or if
you prefer the phrasing -- not hot from the out source g

Persephone


A couple of the least root-burning poos are rabbit poo & llama poo. Even
these SHOULD be composted before use. All others risk not only disease to
family & pets, but will damage plants & beneficial microorganisms while
encouraging harmful microorganisms. But it's one of the not-so-secret
dirty little secrets of farming that whether its chickenshit or cowshit or
shit from under rabbit hutches, slopping it on gardens mostly raw is a
commonplace without a great number of ill health effects (by luck rather
than by safety). For most of us, it would not be worth the possibility of
salmonella, e-coli, plus any number of zoonotic pathogens passable to
family members & pets, which certainly can result from spreading animal
shit throughout one's garden then getting down on hands & knees to plant
things or weed things & get shit instead of wholesome humus all over one's
hands. Or even eating it if its in the lettuce garden. A hot compost kills
all harmful pathogens & parasites found in poo, while breaking down into a
wholesome even sweet-smelling organic compost.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he
http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to
liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot." -Thomas Jefferson

The horse manure is well rotted

Most chicken manure is well composted in the barn since most farms do
not clean out their chicken coop or barn every single day.
In fact anytime I get manure it has usually sat for six months or more.
Also Cow manure pulled right out of the barn and put on the garden is
very benificial.
And if you are going to tell me about the health risk first reserch the
health risks of commercial fertilizers. They are far more dangerous
than natural manures
Chuckie

In article .com,
"Chuckie" wrote:

Most chicken manure is well composted in the barn

If it wasn't a hot compost the pathogens won't be killed. The chance that
the barn floor reached temperatures in excess of 130 degrees is about
zero.

since most farms do
not clean out their chicken coop or barn every single day.
In fact anytime I get manure it has usually sat for six months or more.
Also Cow manure pulled right out of the barn and put on the garden is
very benificial.

And more often than not dangerously contaminated with zoonotic pathogens.

And if you are going to tell me about the health risk first reserch the
health risks of commercial fertilizers. They are far more dangerous
than natural manures
Chuckie

I've done the research. You clearly never bothered or you wouldn't be
peevish that facts are facts.

Chemical fertilizers used properly have all sorts of accumulative risks
most measurable in large doubleblind studies over a great length of time,
less obvious one person at a time since it could take forty years for a
very small percentage of the population to have a cancer that might or
might not be related to a horrible soup of contaminants.

Contact with uncomposted manures on the otherhand exposes individuals to
immediate dramatic risks such as cause of human illness from zoonotic
bacterial infections, "a significant human health risk" according to the
USDA's Agricultural Research service on the prevention of zoonotic
diseases.

Slathering uncomposted shit in the garden has a much more immediate
disease risk than do chemical fertilizers, which even a die-hard organic
gardener like myself finds easy to accept as a simple reality.

Chickenshit provides a very high risk of salmonella, which has been shown
to live in manures up to 286 days waiting for its next victim, though most
dangerous for the first 30 days away from infecteed animals (and
salmonella is carried by as many as 75% of chickens & cattle themselves
showing no sign of illness, animals that shed the pathogens at the rate of
20,000 to 50,000 cfu per gram of manure). Cryptosporidium & listeria
remain alive & dangerous for 6 weeks away from an infected animals, or
longer. A fresh vegetable that looked perfectly clean could cause severe
illness or death after contact with uncomposted or untreated manures even
weeks after application in the garden.

Slathering uncomposted chowshit in the garden, unless it has been
innoculated with sodium carbonate or heat-composted, presents a high risk
of e-coli, a very deadly pathogen, plus any number of pathogens perhaps
less apt to result in death but some pretty severe illnesses even so. Many
e-coli outbreaks in America have been tracked back to just such an origin:
morons spreading uncomposted cow manure where they are growing vegetables.
Uncomposted or uncarbonated cow manure commonly has an e-Coli count of
100,000 to 100,000,000 cells per gram. A 2002 Department of Health and
Human Services study looked at 54 manure samples & discovered 23 were
cantaminated with e-coli, a darmned high percentage.

The danger is particularly great for children. A North Carolina Department
of Health & Human Services study in 2004 found that toddlers (under three
years of age) who contracted e-coli were seven times more likely to have
been in contact with manure than were children who were not ill.

Tetanus is a constant risk in any garden, but with uncomposted manures in
the garden risk increases. Tetanus kills a few gardeners every year,
mostly old ones.

Salmonella & e-coli infections are the most serious risks. There are a
great many zoonotic diseases that are less commonly encountered, but
common enough, including Streptococcus, Klebsiella pneumoniae, &
Staphylococcus. Getting one's shit already half decayed from the
chickenhouse or barn isn't going to fix the problem, as these pathogens
need a HOT composting for a minimum three days to be killed, & can
otherwise remain dangerous for weeks after placement on a garden.

For cow manures that have never been heat-composted there are lesser
threats of human infection from bovine virus or cryptosporidia protozoans
or Camplyobacteria or listeria, & an array of mycobacterium. Dairy workers
usually know how to protect themselves. Gardeners crawling around in their
own gardens are not as apt to be on guard, so should just not be putting
themselves in the way of such risk slathering raw feces in places where
they work & play.

The risk of spreading diseases to other animals is also considerable,
including to the dog or the cat. Staph contracted by the family pet from
manure can result in chronic scabbing & then the infection easily
transfers to children who play with the infected pets. Uncomposted cowshit
can spread paratuberculosis (Johnes disease) to deer visiting a garden, to
domestic llamas or goats, plus it does have the zoonotic potential of
spreading from manure to humans.

A compost heap, reaching a minimum of 131 degrees F., kills all pathogens
in only three days. On hands & knees in a garden crawling about in
uncomposted poo, or eating stuff grown in the garden, or dogs or children
playing in the garden, all put everyone at CONSIDERABLE risk, something
anyone with a lick of sense is never going to deny.

Humans spreading chemicals on everything may be causing a greater lasting
harm to the larger environment & secondariy thereby to themselves. Humans
crawling around in a garden coated in feces are doing less damage to the
larger environment but taking a far greater & immediate risk of killing
themselves or making themselves lastingly ill exposing themselves to a
hundred realistically dangerous zoonotic pathogens & parasites.
Intelligent folks will make sure to run it through a healthy hot compost
before putting it where kids & pets will be playing or where gardeners
will be weeding or harvesting.

One can take a calculated risk in many things in life on almost a daily
basis. To drive drunk. To bungy jump. To help a sick animal even at risk
of becoming infected ourselves. Or play scat-games to the delight of a
sadistic lover. But to pretend such things as sleucing raw manure all over
the place is not really much of a risk is at best foolhardy, at worst a
way to kill someone, most likely a child or an old person.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he
http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to
liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot." -Thomas Jefferson

You make excellent pionts. When I use chicken manure I use it in the
compost primarily.
If you are going to handle fertilzers you must know all of the health
risks, which I see you do.
My manure comes from a poultry company that runs a very clean operation
and has low disease.
I understand the health risks and I consider myself a very healthy
person, which I beleive play an important part in how any fertilizers
affect a person.
Chuckie