Global warming?
 

....or *something*!

Even in So. Calif coastal, where it's usually mild, we're not
having much winter. Garden things are happening out of season.

For example, the leaves haven't even finished falling off my Wisteria,
when a few blooms already appear.

And my Cape Jasmine is flowering up a storm, way ahead of time.

I usually prune roses late January, so went ahead and did it,
but had to remove a lot of lovely, lush new foliage.

Any other "early" stories out there?

Persephone


--

The unexamined life is not worth living.

Socrates

Global warming?
 

Persephone wrote:
...or *something*!

Even in So. Calif coastal, where it's usually mild, we're not
having much winter. Garden things are happening out of season.

For example, the leaves haven't even finished falling off my Wisteria,
when a few blooms already appear.

And my Cape Jasmine is flowering up a storm, way ahead of time.

I usually prune roses late January, so went ahead and did it,
but had to remove a lot of lovely, lush new foliage.

Any other "early" stories out there?

Persephone


--

The unexamined life is not worth living.

Socrates

Lost three roses last year (mid-Northern Ontario) because we had an
early spring thaw February/March that lasted three weeks - just long
enough to persuade the roses it was time to start setting buds. Then we
had what used to be normal March weather, a couple of weeks of around -5
to -10C overnight, with mostly below freezing days, too.

The really scary thing about climate change is that the models predict
that a climate flip or turnover sould happpen in less than a century.
That is, some reasonable sets of inputs into the models predict very
rapid climate changes, others sets (only slightly different) predict
slow changes. But we don't know enough about the present climate to be
able to say which sets of input assumptions reflect reality. So we're
stuck with guessing. We could have a mostly tropical planet by 2100. But
the ecosystems can't adapt that fast. So ---

Global warming?
 

Hay, I'm in S.Calf. and winter has ben long and cold and dry up in the high
mojave desert and only my iris are sending up any new fans, everything else
is still very much asleep.


--

The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Astronomy Net Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/astronomy_net
In Garden Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/ingarden
Blast Off Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/starlords




Persephone wrote in message ...
...or *something*!

Even in So. Calif coastal, where it's usually mild, we're not
having much winter. Garden things are happening out of season.

For example, the leaves haven't even finished falling off my Wisteria,
when a few blooms already appear.

And my Cape Jasmine is flowering up a storm, way ahead of time.

I usually prune roses late January, so went ahead and did it,
but had to remove a lot of lovely, lush new foliage.

Any other "early" stories out there?

Persephone


--

The unexamined life is not worth living.

Socrates

Global warming?
 

Upstate NY, zone 5:

My composter was frozen solid in early December, and full to the top. Now,
it's defrosted, and volume has reduced by half. I've never seen this happen
by January. Parsley's growing again, and a few crocuses have sent up
sprouts. They'll survive when frost returns, but I'm worried about some of
the perennials.

Here in W Pa the temperature is 60 and has been exceptionally warm most of the winter. We consider this a plus and count the days until March when the temperatures won't go below 25. Although global warming my be responsible for this warming trend. Global warming is a very serious happening and is not considered important by most governments, as they are only concerned with big business and not changing their way of polluting. Money talks, unfortunately.

Global warming?
 

"golddog" wrote in message
...

Persephone Wrote:
....or *something*!

Even in So. Calif coastal, where it's usually mild, we're not
having much winter. Garden things are happening out of season.

For example, the leaves haven't even finished falling off my Wisteria,
when a few blooms already appear.

And my Cape Jasmine is flowering up a storm, way ahead of time.

I usually prune roses late January, so went ahead and did it,
but had to remove a lot of lovely, lush new foliage.

Any other "early" stories out there?

Persephone


--

The unexamined life is not worth living.

Socrates

Here in W Pa the temperature is 60 and has been exceptionally warm most
of the winter. We consider this a plus and count the days until March
when the temperatures won't go below 25. Although global warming my be
responsible for this warming trend. Global warming is a very serious
happening and is not considered important by most governments, as they
are only concerned with big business and not changing their way of
polluting. Money talks, unfortunately.

Yeah, they remind me of the ol; Ostrich...head-in-the-sand...Here in the
wilds of WA. State, several Robins showed up last Tuesday. I have never
before seen them here this early. It's usually near the end of February
before they show up!

Regards,
Bill


--
golddog

Global warming?
 

The message
from golddog contains these words:

Global warming is a very serious
happening and is not considered important by most governments,

Maybe you should check out something called the KYOTO treaty.

Janet

Janet, I amend my comments to include governments not taking global warming important to the US, Russia, China, and India. Although I believe Russia has signed on to the treaty, it will be decades before they make much difference in their polluting.

Global warming?
 

Persephone wrote:
...or *something*!

Global warming will actually make winters colder. Rising temperatures
will melt the ice caps, releasing fresh water into the ocean. This will
decrease the strength of the gulf stream, which is what brings warm air
from the equator up to the northern hemisphere during the winter. New
England and Europe are going to be hardest hit. In general, global
warming makes everything more extreme.

Here in Philadelphia, December was fairly cold, but this January,
temperatures have often been in the 50s, and it seems to make it to 60
once a week. My tulips and daffodils have already started coming up.

Global warming?
 

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from golddog contains these words:

Global warming is a very serious
happening and is not considered important by most governments,

Maybe you should check out something called the KYOTO treaty.

Janet

The concept of buying & selling pollution credits pretty much trumps any
pretty ideas everyone (except us) agreed to in that treaty.

Global warming?
 

The message
from "Doug Kanter" contains these words:


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from golddog contains these words:

Global warming is a very serious
happening and is not considered important by most governments,

Maybe you should check out something called the KYOTO treaty.

Janet

The concept of buying & selling pollution credits pretty much trumps any
pretty ideas everyone (except us) agreed to in that treaty.

That's the US-govt fake excuse designed to justify their ostrich
stance to Americans. Taken from from the same
dusty-irrational-make-believe-justification shelf as " Saddam Hussein
had it coming because he was responsible for 9/11."

Janet.

Global warming?
 

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Doug Kanter" contains these words:


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from golddog contains these words:

Global warming is a very serious
happening and is not considered important by most governments,

Maybe you should check out something called the KYOTO treaty.

Janet

The concept of buying & selling pollution credits pretty much trumps any
pretty ideas everyone (except us) agreed to in that treaty.

That's the US-govt fake excuse designed to justify their ostrich
stance to Americans. Taken from from the same
dusty-irrational-make-believe-justification shelf as " Saddam Hussein
had it coming because he was responsible for 9/11."

Janet.

Saddam *was* responsible for 9/11. A squirrel told me about it.

To set the record straight, Saddam was not responsible for 9/11. No matter what Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and Rush Limbaugh say.

Global warming?
 

Doug Kanter wrote:

Janet wrote.

That's the US-govt fake excuse designed to justify their ostrich
stance to Americans. Taken from from the same
dusty-irrational-make-believe-justification shelf as " Saddam Hussein
had it coming because he was responsible for 9/11."

Janet.

Saddam *was* responsible for 9/11. A squirrel told me about it.

Ha I heard about it from a monkey..........

Global warming?
 

"Thornhill" wrote in message
oups.com...

Persephone wrote:
...or *something*!

Global warming will actually make winters colder. Rising temperatures
will melt the ice caps, releasing fresh water into the ocean. This will
decrease the strength of the gulf stream, which is what brings warm air
from the equator up to the northern hemisphere during the winter. New
England and Europe are going to be hardest hit. In general, global
warming makes everything more extreme.

Here in Philadelphia, December was fairly cold, but this January,
temperatures have often been in the 50s, and it seems to make it to 60
once a week. My tulips and daffodils have already started coming up.


I love gardening too and have to laugh sometimes at the unscientific posts
that occur here at times. Some type of "global warming" caused the last
great ice age to recede too. How the heck did that happen? AND was it a
bad thing?

Global warming?
 

Major climate change has been a fact of life since the beginning of time on
earth. The difference now is the rate of change. No fossil record or core
sample we have ever found shows such a rapid change in temperatures over one
century as we have just experienced or such a huge measurable increase in
atmospheric carbon dioxide. During every major climate change, there were
major die offs of species - and many of those species had several thousand
years to adapt. It takes no special scientific ability to predict that with
more rapid climate change those die-offs will happen much faster and will
affect many more species. Can an earth which might lose 1/4th of all its
species support 6 or 7 billion humans? Not likely............In fact, it's
quite possible that we might join the ranks of the species who die-off, or
die back to small numbers. Just imagine if global warming were to assist the
spread of some sort of incurable plant disease to the grain family
(graminaceae) - how long could the human race survive in numbers without
wheat, rice, corn, oats, barley, rye, millet, or any other grain to provide
storable calories? Unfortunately, the climate change which fossil fuel
burning initiated might now be irreversible. In other words, even if we
stopped burning oil and coal tomorrow, the climate would probably continue
to warm for several centuries according to some models. I hope those models
are incorrect. Unwittingly at first, and now, with more knowledge available
to us but not acted upon, stupidly we have fouled our own nest.......
"djay" wrote in message
news:VtXDf.13690$oo1.12517@trnddc02...

"Thornhill" wrote in message
oups.com...

Persephone wrote:
...or *something*!

Global warming will actually make winters colder. Rising temperatures
will melt the ice caps, releasing fresh water into the ocean. This will
decrease the strength of the gulf stream, which is what brings warm air
from the equator up to the northern hemisphere during the winter. New
England and Europe are going to be hardest hit. In general, global
warming makes everything more extreme.

Here in Philadelphia, December was fairly cold, but this January,
temperatures have often been in the 50s, and it seems to make it to 60
once a week. My tulips and daffodils have already started coming up.


I love gardening too and have to laugh sometimes at the unscientific posts
that occur here at times. Some type of "global warming" caused the last
great ice age to recede too. How the heck did that happen? AND was it a
bad thing?

Global warming?
 

The message
from golddog contains these words:


To set the record straight, Saddam was not responsible for 9/11.

Ohmigard, are you SURE? Has anyone told the President?

Janet.

Global warming?
 

"mleblanca" wrote in message
ups.com...

Doug Kanter wrote:

Janet wrote.

That's the US-govt fake excuse designed to justify their ostrich
stance to Americans. Taken from from the same
dusty-irrational-make-believe-justification shelf as " Saddam Hussein
had it coming because he was responsible for 9/11."

Janet.

Saddam *was* responsible for 9/11. A squirrel told me about it.

Ha I heard about it from a monkey..........


Was it a nookular monkey? :)

It wouldn't be such a concern if the 'warming' (melting) isn't taking place in the short time frame. Actually the Industrial Revolution's emergence and the large melting coincide. Ask the two right wing Senators from Alaska what they think of global warming. They have a front row seat. To ask for more proof is not fair, as virtually all scientists agree on this one. Plus Google will turn up vast amounts of data to confirm.

Global warming?
 

djay wrote:
"Thornhill" wrote in message
oups.com...

Persephone wrote:
...or *something*!

Global warming will actually make winters colder. Rising temperatures
will melt the ice caps, releasing fresh water into the ocean. This will
decrease the strength of the gulf stream, which is what brings warm air
from the equator up to the northern hemisphere during the winter. New
England and Europe are going to be hardest hit. In general, global
warming makes everything more extreme.

Here in Philadelphia, December was fairly cold, but this January,
temperatures have often been in the 50s, and it seems to make it to 60
once a week. My tulips and daffodils have already started coming up.


I love gardening too and have to laugh sometimes at the unscientific posts
that occur here at times. Some type of "global warming" caused the last
great ice age to recede too. How the heck did that happen? AND was it a
bad thing?

There's nothing unscientific about this. Lots of studies have been
done.

I'm not talking about another ice age, just weather patterns in the
northern hemisphere. The summers, like the rest of the world, will be
incredibly hot, but a weakened Gulf Stream will result in colder
winters.

Global warming?
 

"golddog" wrote in message
...

djay Wrote:
"Thornhill" wrote in message
oups.com...

Persephone wrote:
...or *something*!

Global warming will actually make winters colder. Rising temperatures
will melt the ice caps, releasing fresh water into the ocean. This
will
decrease the strength of the gulf stream, which is what brings warm
air
from the equator up to the northern hemisphere during the winter. New
England and Europe are going to be hardest hit. In general, global
warming makes everything more extreme.

Here in Philadelphia, December was fairly cold, but this January,
temperatures have often been in the 50s, and it seems to make it to
60
once a week. My tulips and daffodils have already started coming up.


I love gardening too and have to laugh sometimes at the unscientific
posts
that occur here at times. Some type of "global warming" caused the
last
great ice age to recede too. How the heck did that happen? AND was it
a
bad thing?

It wouldn't be such a concern if the 'warming' (melting) isn't taking
place in the short time frame. Actually the Industrial Revolution's
emergence and the large melting coincide. Ask the two right wing
Senators from Alaska what they think of global warming. They have a
front row seat. To ask for more proof is not fair, as virtually all
scientists agree on this one. Plus Google will turn up vast amounts of
data to confirm.

Certain individuals believe (consciously or not) that to acknowledge global
warming is equivalent to offending two institutions which they revere more
than Catholics revere the pope: The oil and automobile industries. And,
let's not forget that they'd also have to kick the jambs out from under our
entire belief system, which says we have a god-given right to own any car we
like, no matter how stupid it might be, and to hell with the consequences.

Global warming?
 

Persephone wrote in message ...
...or *something*!


Global warming is a political issue. It's been around ever since they talked
about a new ice age coming back in the 70s. They changed that because of no
interest and global warming replaced it. Kyoto was supposed to be the answer
and now it's all but dead. The signees of the treaty have not reduced any of
their emissions but they still blame the U.S. for it's failure even though
everybody acjknowedges it wouldn't cure anything. The whole movement is seen
by many to be a continuous money supply in order to keep all those "experts"
from having to drive cabs for a living.

The warming may be somewhat real to some degree but it has been explained by
many knowledgeable people as climate cycles (and there are many of them) and
cycles within cycles. Sun output, orbital variations and other known factors
have been cited but no one really knows how and why climate has changed
natuarally over the eons. Climate change is always happening.


"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed --and
hence clamorous to be led to safety--by menacing it with an endless series
of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." H.L. Mencken

Global warming?
 

"James" wrote in message
...

Persephone wrote in message ...
...or *something*!


Global warming is a political issue. It's been around ever since they
talked
about a new ice age coming back in the 70s. They changed that because of
no
interest and global warming replaced it. Kyoto was supposed to be the
answer
and now it's all but dead. The signees of the treaty have not reduced any
of
their emissions but they still blame the U.S. for it's failure even though
everybody acjknowedges it wouldn't cure anything. The whole movement is
seen
by many to be a continuous money supply in order to keep all those
"experts"
from having to drive cabs for a living.

The warming may be somewhat real to some degree but it has been explained
by
many knowledgeable people as climate cycles (and there are many of them)
and
cycles within cycles. Sun output, orbital variations and other known
factors
have been cited but no one really knows how and why climate has changed
natuarally over the eons. Climate change is always happening.

OK, but at the other extreme, discounting it completely is the mantra of
idiots who want to drive an Escalade or a Hummer, and pretend they don't
belch more fumes than more sensible vehicles.

Global warming?
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"James" wrote in message
...

Persephone wrote in message
...
...or *something*!


Global warming is a political issue. It's been around ever since they
talked
about a new ice age coming back in the 70s. They changed that because of
no
interest and global warming replaced it. Kyoto was supposed to be the
answer
and now it's all but dead. The signees of the treaty have not reduced
any
of
their emissions but they still blame the U.S. for it's failure even
though
everybody acjknowedges it wouldn't cure anything. The whole movement is
seen
by many to be a continuous money supply in order to keep all those
"experts"
from having to drive cabs for a living.

The warming may be somewhat real to some degree but it has been
explained
by
many knowledgeable people as climate cycles (and there are many of them)
and
cycles within cycles. Sun output, orbital variations and other known
factors
have been cited but no one really knows how and why climate has changed
natuarally over the eons. Climate change is always happening.

OK, but at the other extreme, discounting it completely is the mantra of
idiots who want to drive an Escalade or a Hummer, and pretend they don't
belch more fumes than more sensible vehicles.


That seems to be a point that a lot of people make for some reason but I
doubt anyone driving an SUV pretends anything. I believe they just want to
be in on the SUV fad while it lasts.

Global warming?
 

The message
from "James" contains these words:


Persephone wrote in message ...
...or *something*!


Global warming is a political issue. It's been around ever since they talked
about a new ice age coming back in the 70s. They changed that because of no
interest and global warming replaced it. Kyoto was supposed to be the answer
and now it's all but dead. The signees of the treaty have not reduced any of
their emissions

You're mistaken. KYOTO is only the tip of the iceberg; it's
acknowledged here as too little too late. FYI, the whole of Europe is
committed to much tighter emission reductions than KYOTO. In Britain,
we're working on three different reduction commitments ,international
(Kyoto), European and UK, at every level of the community (from
business to individual households). CO2 reduction , and moving to
renewable , sustainable, non-polluting energy sources are already huge
business here, and America risks being left very far behind.

Janet.

Global warming?
 

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "James" contains these words:


Persephone wrote in message ...
...or *something*!


Global warming is a political issue. It's been around ever since they
talked
about a new ice age coming back in the 70s. They changed that because of
no
interest and global warming replaced it. Kyoto was supposed to be the
answer
and now it's all but dead. The signees of the treaty have not reduced any
of
their emissions

You're mistaken. KYOTO is only the tip of the iceberg; it's
acknowledged here as too little too late. FYI, the whole of Europe is
committed to much tighter emission reductions than KYOTO. In Britain,
we're working on three different reduction commitments ,international
(Kyoto), European and UK, at every level of the community (from
business to individual households). CO2 reduction , and moving to
renewable , sustainable, non-polluting energy sources are already huge
business here, and America risks being left very far behind.

Janet.

Fumes are manly. Fixing the problem is wimpy. This is the attitude of the
administration, and quite a few members of a generation that needs to die of
old age as soon as possible.

Global warming?
 

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "James" contains these words:


Persephone wrote in message
...
...or *something*!


Global warming is a political issue. It's been around ever since they
talked
about a new ice age coming back in the 70s. They changed that because of
no
interest and global warming replaced it. Kyoto was supposed to be the
answer
and now it's all but dead. The signees of the treaty have not reduced
any of
their emissions

You're mistaken. KYOTO is only the tip of the iceberg; it's
acknowledged here as too little too late. FYI, the whole of Europe is
committed to much tighter emission reductions than KYOTO. In Britain,
we're working on three different reduction commitments ,international
(Kyoto), European and UK, at every level of the community (from
business to individual households). CO2 reduction , and moving to
renewable , sustainable, non-polluting energy sources are already huge
business here, and America risks being left very far behind.

Janet.

Yes. I know Europe is much more rabid about it than we are. But from what
I've read, no one has yet met their Kyoto targets. Though Kyoto has only
been in actual effect for a year, it has been committed to for some time
now. I would have thought they would be further along. It will be
interesting to see how well they perform in coming years. I misspoke saying
they haven't reduced emissions. They just haven't met their goal according
to the timetable.

Global warming?
 

"James" wrote in message
...

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "James" contains these words:


Persephone wrote in message
...
...or *something*!


Global warming is a political issue. It's been around ever since they
talked
about a new ice age coming back in the 70s. They changed that because
of
no
interest and global warming replaced it. Kyoto was supposed to be the
answer
and now it's all but dead. The signees of the treaty have not reduced
any of
their emissions

You're mistaken. KYOTO is only the tip of the iceberg; it's
acknowledged here as too little too late. FYI, the whole of Europe is
committed to much tighter emission reductions than KYOTO. In Britain,
we're working on three different reduction commitments ,international
(Kyoto), European and UK, at every level of the community (from
business to individual households). CO2 reduction , and moving to
renewable , sustainable, non-polluting energy sources are already huge
business here, and America risks being left very far behind.

Janet.

Yes. I know Europe is much more rabid about it than we are. But from what
I've read, no one has yet met their Kyoto targets. Though Kyoto has only
been in actual effect for a year, it has been committed to for some time
now. I would have thought they would be further along. It will be
interesting to see how well they perform in coming years. I misspoke
saying
they haven't reduced emissions. They just haven't met their goal according
to the timetable.



Don't hold your breath waiting for perfection. Some of the provisions
require improvements to coal-burning facilities, and it's so much easier and
cheaper to simply purchase the public officials who can make the enforcement
go away. That's what's happening here.

Global warming?
 

The message
from "James" contains these words:


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "James" contains these words:


Persephone wrote in message
...
...or *something*!


Global warming is a political issue. It's been around ever since they
talked
about a new ice age coming back in the 70s. They changed that because of
no
interest and global warming replaced it. Kyoto was supposed to be the
answer
and now it's all but dead. The signees of the treaty have not reduced
any of
their emissions

You're mistaken. KYOTO is only the tip of the iceberg; it's
acknowledged here as too little too late. FYI, the whole of Europe is
committed to much tighter emission reductions than KYOTO. In Britain,
we're working on three different reduction commitments ,international
(Kyoto), European and UK, at every level of the community (from
business to individual households). CO2 reduction , and moving to
renewable , sustainable, non-polluting energy sources are already huge
business here, and America risks being left very far behind.

Janet.

Yes. I know Europe is much more rabid about it than we are. But from what
I've read, no one has yet met their Kyoto targets.

That's unsurprising since the target date is still 4 years away.
Latest assessments are that Britain and Sweden are on target to meet
their Kyoto commitment by 2010 with Austria a close third.

Janet

Global warming?
 

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "James" contains these words:


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "James" contains these words:


Persephone wrote in message
...
...or *something*!


Global warming is a political issue. It's been around ever since
they
talked
about a new ice age coming back in the 70s. They changed that
because of
no
interest and global warming replaced it. Kyoto was supposed to be
the
answer
and now it's all but dead. The signees of the treaty have not
reduced
any of
their emissions

You're mistaken. KYOTO is only the tip of the iceberg; it's
acknowledged here as too little too late. FYI, the whole of Europe is
committed to much tighter emission reductions than KYOTO. In Britain,
we're working on three different reduction commitments ,international
(Kyoto), European and UK, at every level of the community (from
business to individual households). CO2 reduction , and moving to
renewable , sustainable, non-polluting energy sources are already huge
business here, and America risks being left very far behind.

Janet.

Yes. I know Europe is much more rabid about it than we are. But from
what
I've read, no one has yet met their Kyoto targets.

That's unsurprising since the target date is still 4 years away.
Latest assessments are that Britain and Sweden are on target to meet
their Kyoto commitment by 2010 with Austria a close third.

Janet

As I understand it, there are target dates year by year and none have been
met. Britain started out pretty well when they converted to natural gas but
failed to meet their target. The ultimate outcome is in doubt. Ditto for
Germany as the old belching plants were converted to more efficient methods.

Global warming?
 

I agree. One doesn't have to venture much of an opinion on such minutia in
order to get a heated response.



"Mr. Bill" wrote in message
.. .

On 1-Feb-2006, "James" wrote:

Global warming is a political issue. It's been around ever since they
talked
about a new ice age coming back in the 70s. They changed that because of
no
interest and global warming replaced it. Kyoto was supposed to be the
answer
and now it's all but dead. The signees of the treaty have not reduced
any
of
their emissions but they still blame the U.S. for it's failure even
though
everybody acjknowedges it wouldn't cure anything. The whole movement is
seen
by many to be a continuous money supply in order to keep all those
"experts"
from having to drive cabs for a living.

The warming may be somewhat real to some degree but it has been
explained
by
many knowledgeable people as climate cycles (and there are many of them)
and
cycles within cycles. Sun output, orbital variations and other known
factors
have been cited but no one really knows how and why climate has changed
natuarally over the eons. Climate change is always happening.


"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
alarmed --and
hence clamorous to be led to safety--by menacing it with an endless
series
of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." H.L. Mencken

Thank you for a little voice of reason here. You will probably get flamed
by the more emotional who have been convinced (rightly or not) that global
warming will be our demise. I say if global warming is going to put an
end
to us all then let's just go ahead and build a whole crapload of nuclear
reactors and at least breathe easier as we meet our end. Oh wait that may
reduce greenhouse emissions! Oh noooo! Then global warming might not
come
around quickly enough to be our demise.... Oh but then the nuclear waste
will kill us!

And if you copy and worward this email to everybody on your list Bill
Gates
will give you a hundred dollars!

Really this is not the place to have this discussion anyway. You see it
has
turned into a political discussion. This is a gardening group.

Just my two pennies worth, whatever it is worth. Duh, tow pennies of
course? What was I thinking?

Mr. Bill

Global warming?
 

"James" wrote in message
...

Persephone wrote in message ...
...or *something*!


Global warming is a political issue. It's been around ever since they
talked
about a new ice age coming back in the 70s. They changed that because of
no
interest and global warming replaced it. Kyoto was supposed to be the
answer
and now it's all but dead. The signees of the treaty have not reduced any
of
their emissions but they still blame the U.S. for it's failure even though
everybody acjknowedges it wouldn't cure anything. The whole movement is
seen
by many to be a continuous money supply in order to keep all those
"experts"
from having to drive cabs for a living.

The warming may be somewhat real to some degree but it has been explained
by
many knowledgeable people as climate cycles (and there are many of them)
and
cycles within cycles. Sun output, orbital variations and other known
factors
have been cited but no one really knows how and why climate has changed
natuarally over the eons. Climate change is always happening.


"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed --and
hence clamorous to be led to safety--by menacing it with an endless series
of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." H.L. Mencken



Agree completely with your assessment and logic you present, James. When I
was in grade school the fear was an Ice Age coming again and *soon*. When
that didn't generate any bucks the tone changed. Amazing how many people
can be duped by this. I believe there is a problem though and it is the
fact of the population explosion.
I will say that the 6 billion + humans on the earth today is 50% more than
when I was a freshman in H.S. Hmm 50% increase in CO2 emissions in 28
years? Every day... 50% increase in CO2 exhalation and steadily rising from
this point forward? - forever? Wow that MUST be having an alarming effect
on greenhouse gases?
What to do about it though? That is the real question. Fact is that the
human race will indeed overcome this planet's sustaining capability.
Population explosion is the problem.

Global warming?
 

"James" wrote in message
...

Persephone wrote in message ...
...or *something*!


Global warming is a political issue. It's been around ever since they
talked
about a new ice age coming back in the 70s. They changed that because of
no
interest and global warming replaced it.

The "ice age" theory was never signed onto by the majority of climatologists
and earth scientists, because it didn't have sufficient data to support it.
Global warming does have sufficient data and virtually the entire
climatology scientific community agrees that is is real. To pretend
otherwise reminds me of the current debate about evolution in the US, in
which the fundamentalists who favor creationism pretend that there are equal
numbers of reputable scientists on both sides of the question. But, if you
prefer to bury your head in the sand out of some interesting notion that
denial is healthy, please be my guest.......

Global warming?
 

The message
from "James" contains these words:


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
.. Kyoto was supposed to be
the
answer
and now it's all but dead. The signees of the treaty have not
reduced
any of
their emissions

You're mistaken. KYOTO is only the tip of the iceberg; it's
acknowledged here as too little too late. FYI, the whole of Europe is
committed to much tighter emission reductions than KYOTO. In Britain,
we're working on three different reduction commitments ,international


Yes. I know Europe is much more rabid about it than we are. But from
what
I've read, no one has yet met their Kyoto targets.

That's unsurprising since the target date is still 4 years away.
Latest assessments are that Britain and Sweden are on target to meet
their Kyoto commitment by 2010 with Austria a close third.


As I understand it, there are target dates year by year and none have been
met. Britain started out pretty well when they converted to natural gas but
failed to meet their target.

Then you're misinformed. The Kyoto agreement happened 1997-99, 30
years AFTER Britain converted to natural gas. Our undersea gas fields
are now declining. Next year we'll become a net importer of natural gas
:-(, so that's another unsustainable, expensive, limited energy source
which we need to reduce dependence on (like coal before it, and oil
currently). Especially after what just happened in Georgia.


Janet

I agree with Bill, the Garden Banter is for gardening, not politics. As much as I like to talk politics, I am going to refrain as of today. Top of the day to all!

Global warming?
 

love this phrase. do I have permission to steal it? Ingrid

"presley" wrote:

But, if you
prefer to bury your head in the sand out of some interesting notion that
denial is healthy, please be my guest.......



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

Global warming?
 

"presley" wrote in message
...

"James" wrote in message
...

Persephone wrote in message
...
...or *something*!


Global warming is a political issue. It's been around ever since they
talked
about a new ice age coming back in the 70s. They changed that because of
no
interest and global warming replaced it.

The "ice age" theory was never signed onto by the majority of
climatologists
and earth scientists, because it didn't have sufficient data to support
it.
Global warming does have sufficient data and virtually the entire
climatology scientific community agrees that is is real. To pretend
otherwise reminds me of the current debate about evolution in the US, in
which the fundamentalists who favor creationism pretend that there are
equal
numbers of reputable scientists on both sides of the question. But, if you
prefer to bury your head in the sand out of some interesting notion that
denial is healthy, please be my guest.......


The "new ice age" story was a trial balloon. If it had gotten any traction,
the data would have come. That's why there were never any real scientific
papers issued on it.

Global warming?
 

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "James" contains these words:


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
. Kyoto was supposed to be
the
answer
and now it's all but dead. The signees of the treaty have not
reduced
any of
their emissions

You're mistaken. KYOTO is only the tip of the iceberg; it's
acknowledged here as too little too late. FYI, the whole of
Europe is
committed to much tighter emission reductions than KYOTO. In
Britain,
we're working on three different reduction commitments
,international


Yes. I know Europe is much more rabid about it than we are. But from
what
I've read, no one has yet met their Kyoto targets.

That's unsurprising since the target date is still 4 years away.
Latest assessments are that Britain and Sweden are on target to meet
their Kyoto commitment by 2010 with Austria a close third.


As I understand it, there are target dates year by year and none have
been
met. Britain started out pretty well when they converted to natural gas
but
failed to meet their target.

Then you're misinformed. The Kyoto agreement happened 1997-99, 30
years AFTER Britain converted to natural gas. Our undersea gas fields
are now declining. Next year we'll become a net importer of natural gas
:-(, so that's another unsustainable, expensive, limited energy source
which we need to reduce dependence on (like coal before it, and oil
currently). Especially after what just happened in Georgia.


The conversion occurred in the early 90s. The targets are shooting for 1990
levels. The UK's legally binding Kyoto target is to reduce emissions of six
greenhouse gases, of which CO2 is the main one, to 12.5 percent below 1990
levels by 2009-2012.

Global warming?
 

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "James" contains these words:


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...


Then you're misinformed. The Kyoto agreement happened 1997-99, 30
years AFTER Britain converted to natural gas. Our undersea gas
fields
are now declining. Next year we'll become a net importer of natural
gas
:-(, so that's another unsustainable, expensive, limited energy source
which we need to reduce dependence on (like coal before it, and oil
currently). Especially after what just happened in Georgia.


The conversion occurred in the early 90s.

Wrong again

Britain's conversion to natural gas began in 68 and was completed by
1977.

http://www.gasmuseum.co.uk/conversion.htm


Janet (Scotland, UK)

We must be talking about two different things. Your link mentions switching
from "town gas" to natural gas in homes. I have been talking about switching
from coal fired electrical plants to gas powered electrical plants.

http://tinyurl.com/brdum

Does anyone else find this thread confusing with replies all over the place? Must be a better way.