Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4 feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside, and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time, I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm at
the end of winter and then cold now.


Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and what
should I change, if anything ?


--
------

"hob" wrote in message
. ..
Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across
and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4 feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily
grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy
cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside, and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time, I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm at
the end of winter and then cold now.


Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and
what
should I change, if anything ?


It's supposed to be built up in layers. The grass bin, in particular, is a
problem because a pile of just grass tends to seal its own insides, and you
get anaerobic decomposition (relative absence of air). Re-mix it all, making
alternating six inch layers of green & brown matter (dried leaves & stems),
with whatever kitchen scraps you want to add within the layers. The brown
matter is difficult at certain times of year, obviously, since you don't
always have falling leaves. One way around this is to save surplus dried
leaves in OPEN bags in the garage, so you have a supply to add later.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"hob" wrote in message
. ..
Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across
and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4
feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily
grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a
hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be
sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy
cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside,
and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It
definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time,
I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm
at
the end of winter and then cold now.


Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and
what
should I change, if anything ?


It's supposed to be built up in layers. The grass bin, in particular, is a
problem because a pile of just grass tends to seal its own insides, and
you
get anaerobic decomposition (relative absence of air).

Thanx for the input - some more background -
It was not "sealed" this year - I had had that the previous year where
too much "just grass" made it "heavy" and sealed it, as you say. So I kept
if from packing down when I put the mower's bagfuls in, and I mixed in some
of the previous year's dried shredded leaf I had kept in bags for mulch, etc
(my mower shreds dried leaves into bits about half the size of a dime).
And being in the garden cloth seems to keep it from getting soggy.

I did not layer it per se, as it was mixed with a pitchfork about once a
month.

Re-mix it all, making
alternating six inch layers of green & brown matter (dried leaves &
stems),
with whatever kitchen scraps you want to add within the layers. The brown
matter is difficult at certain times of year, obviously, since you don't
always have falling leaves. One way around this is to save surplus dried
leaves in OPEN bags in the garage, so you have a supply to add later.

I suspect it's anaerobic, because of lack of oxygen. How does it smell when
you turn it? Frequent turning helps bring in oxygen and mixing up the
ingredients. Layering by itself does little. Adding fertilizer that you
pay for is mostly wasting money.
--
_________________
John Henry Wheeler
Washington, DC
USDA Zone 7
"hob" wrote in message
. ..
Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across
and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4 feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily
grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy
cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside, and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time, I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm at
the end of winter and then cold now.


Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and
what
should I change, if anything ?


--
------

"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
I suspect it's anaerobic, because of lack of oxygen. How does it smell
when
you turn it?

Sweet and a little moldy -

Thanx for the input - some more background -
I had the smell the previous year where too much "just grass" made it
"heavy" and sealed it. So I kept if from packing down when I put the mower's
bagfuls in, and I mixed in some of the previous year's dried shredded leaf I
had kept in bags for mulch, etc (my mower shreds dried leaves into bits
about half the size of a dime) to keep it form packing.
And being in the garden cloth seems to keep it from getting soggy.

It was mixed with a pitchfork about once a month.

Frequent turning helps bring in oxygen and mixing up the
ingredients. Layering by itself does little. Adding fertilizer that you
pay for is mostly wasting money.

FWIW - I got that fertilizer thing from the extension service's bulletin on
making compost bins, and from the garden show.

--
_________________
John Henry Wheeler
Washington, DC
USDA Zone 7
"hob" wrote in message
. ..
Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across
and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4
feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily
grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a
hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be
sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy
cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside,
and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It
definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time,
I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm
at
the end of winter and then cold now.


Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and
what
should I change, if anything ?


--
------

"hob" wrote in message
. ..

"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
I suspect it's anaerobic, because of lack of oxygen. How does it smell
when
you turn it?

Sweet and a little moldy -

Thanx for the input - some more background -
I had the smell the previous year where too much "just grass" made it
"heavy" and sealed it. So I kept if from packing down when I put the
mower's
bagfuls in, and I mixed in some of the previous year's dried shredded leaf
I
had kept in bags for mulch, etc (my mower shreds dried leaves into bits
about half the size of a dime) to keep it form packing.
And being in the garden cloth seems to keep it from getting soggy.

It was mixed with a pitchfork about once a month.

Frequent turning helps bring in oxygen and mixing up the
ingredients. Layering by itself does little. Adding fertilizer that you
pay for is mostly wasting money.

FWIW - I got that fertilizer thing from the extension service's bulletin
on
making compost bins, and from the garden show.

Fertilizer should only be added if you know your compost pile has a very
high carbon to nitrogen ratio. With the amount of grass you're using,
surely you have enough nitrogen. Be careful with water. Too much can make
it very difficult for your pile to get oxygen and it will go anaerobic. I'd
add a little at a time to see if it makes the pile heat up. I keep my piles
on the dry side and they do great. I've never added fertilizer. My "green"
(i.e., high nitrogen) material comes from household kitchen waste and lots
(15 pounds a day) of coffee grounds from Starbucks. I get more coffee
grounds than I can compost, so I just add the extra directly to the yard.
Smells good.

John Henry Wheeler
Washington, DC
USDA Zone 7

"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
I suspect it's anaerobic, because of lack of oxygen. How does it smell
when you turn it? Frequent turning helps bring in oxygen and mixing up the
ingredients. Layering by itself does little. Adding fertilizer that you
pay for is mostly wasting money.

While generally true that is not always the case. If circumstances are such
that you have too high a proportion of carbon (brown) to nitrogen (green) a
bit of relatively inexpensive spring lawn fertilizer can redress the
balance.

Jim

USDA Zone 7
"Jim Voege" wrote in message
...
"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
I suspect it's anaerobic, because of lack of oxygen. How does it smell
when you turn it? Frequent turning helps bring in oxygen and mixing up
the ingredients. Layering by itself does little. Adding fertilizer that
you pay for is mostly wasting money.

While generally true that is not always the case. If circumstances are
such that you have too high a proportion of carbon (brown) to nitrogen
(green) a bit of relatively inexpensive spring lawn fertilizer can redress
the balance.

Jim
Or you could get lots of free coffee grounds from a local business that
makes lots of coffee, e.g., Starbucks. I get about 15 pounds a day of
coffee grounds. Then in the fall I collect bags of leaves in the
neighborhood, grind them up, and add them to compost piles the next year.
_________________
John Henry Wheeler
Washington, DC

"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
USDA Zone 7
"Jim Voege" wrote in message
...
"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
I suspect it's anaerobic, because of lack of oxygen. How does it smell
when you turn it? Frequent turning helps bring in oxygen and mixing up
the ingredients. Layering by itself does little. Adding fertilizer
that
you pay for is mostly wasting money.

While generally true that is not always the case. If circumstances are
such that you have too high a proportion of carbon (brown) to nitrogen
(green) a bit of relatively inexpensive spring lawn fertilizer can
redress
the balance.

Jim
Or you could get lots of free coffee grounds from a local business that
makes lots of coffee, e.g., Starbucks. I get about 15 pounds a day of
coffee grounds. Then in the fall I collect bags of leaves in the
neighborhood, grind them up, and add them to compost piles the next year.

John. An interesting scavange, free used coffee grounds.
What arrangements did you put in place with starbucks to get them?
How do Starbucks 'store' their waste grounds and in what receptacle do you
get it home?
Do you throw them straight in with your existing compost?
If so, what do you add to the grounds in the way of carbon (and how much) to
get the correct ratio?

Rob

ps have you ever tried drying them and using a bulk amount to brew a cup of
coffee?

"George.com" wrote in message
...

"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
USDA Zone 7
"Jim Voege" wrote in message
...
"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
I suspect it's anaerobic, because of lack of oxygen. How does it smell
when you turn it? Frequent turning helps bring in oxygen and mixing up
the ingredients. Layering by itself does little. Adding fertilizer
that
you pay for is mostly wasting money.

While generally true that is not always the case. If circumstances are
such that you have too high a proportion of carbon (brown) to nitrogen
(green) a bit of relatively inexpensive spring lawn fertilizer can
redress
the balance.

Jim
Or you could get lots of free coffee grounds from a local business that
makes lots of coffee, e.g., Starbucks. I get about 15 pounds a day of
coffee grounds. Then in the fall I collect bags of leaves in the
neighborhood, grind them up, and add them to compost piles the next year.

John. An interesting scavange, free used coffee grounds.
What arrangements did you put in place with starbucks to get them?
How do Starbucks 'store' their waste grounds and in what receptacle do you
get it home?
Do you throw them straight in with your existing compost?
If so, what do you add to the grounds in the way of carbon (and how much)
to
get the correct ratio?

Rob

ps have you ever tried drying them and using a bulk amount to brew a cup
of
coffee?
Nearly 10 years ago, I got the idea from my sister who collects coffee
grounds from her local coffee store. I asked the owner of a coffee and
juice store near me if he would save coffee grounds and orange rinds for me
and he agreed. This went on for about 4 years until he was evicted for not
paying rent. Then I asked the manager of the Starbucks 3 blocks from my
house if they would save coffee grounds for me, and they agreed. They have
a trash can with a trash bag in it behind their expresso machine. So the
expresso grounds go right into the can, and is already bagged. I pick up
the bags nearly every day except in the Winter and carry them home. It is
now the official policy of Starbucks to make used grounds available to its
customers. They package it in large empty bags. My Starbucks doesn't often
do that because I get the grounds first.
I don't worry much about the C/N ratio. I compost in a container called a
"Bio Stack." The last batch I started with a "Supercan" of ground leaves,
16 bags of coffee grounds (probably averaging 12-15 lbs/bag), and 8 gallons
of kitchen waste I'd collected for several weeks. It's about 3' x 3' x 2.5'
I plan on adding more leaves and a little more coffee.
Because I get so much coffee, I don't compost it all. Instead I throw some
of it directly on my plant beds.
No I've never tried to brew coffee from the grounds. Nearly all the
caffeine and good flavors are extracted when made. I suspect it would not
taste very good.
_________________
John Henry Wheeler
Washington, DC
USDA Zone 7

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:18:43 -0500, "hob"
wrote:

Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4 feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside, and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time, I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm at
the end of winter and then cold now.


Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and what
should I change, if anything ?


To keep a compost alive, it must be kept moist and fed a mix of green
and brown layers. Turning it once a month is about right. If it
smells, more brown material is needed. Your compost size is about
right. Do add fertilizer.

"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:18:43 -0500, "hob"
wrote:

Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across
and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4
feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily
grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be
sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy
cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside,
and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time, I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm at
the end of winter and then cold now.


Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and
what
should I change, if anything ?


To keep a compost alive, it must be kept moist and fed a mix of green
and brown layers. Turning it once a month is about right. If it
smells, more brown material is needed. Your compost size is about
right. Do add fertilizer.

Thanx for the input - I watered both bins today, in case they lack
sufficient moisture. I'll see if that helps.

Hi Hob,

Sounds like you have taken the proper steps to get your mulch pile
working. I
would guess it has shut down partly due to the cold weather. I would wait for
the
warmer Spring temperatures for it to get started again, keeping the pile moist.
You
may be rushing things a bit expecting to get the fully composted nice black
stuff this
early in the season. My guess is that the pile with the leaves and grass should
work
better than the straight grass pile. I have a similar mulch pile and it takes
at least a
year before it is fully cooked. I say be a bit more patient.

Sherwin D.

hob wrote:

Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4 feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside, and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time, I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm at
the end of winter and then cold now.

Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and what
should I change, if anything ?

--
------

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
Hi Hob,

Sounds like you have taken the proper steps to get your mulch pile
working. I
would guess it has shut down partly due to the cold weather.

That was the odd part - it was active and warm inside the piles in late
February, and cool inside them in early April. (Mpls)

I would wait for
the
warmer Spring temperatures for it to get started again, keeping the pile
moist.

I did water the bins today, on the chance they were not damp enough.

You
may be rushing things a bit expecting to get the fully composted nice
black
stuff this
early in the season.

I had heard it took a few months - the grass bin has been there and added to
(no chemicals on the grass) since the first mowing of last spring. And a lot
of it now looks like dried grass with powdery white mold.

My guess is that the pile with the leaves and grass should
work
better than the straight grass pile.

I would have thought so, too - but the opposite seems to be the case - the
cylindrical bin has the roughly 50-50 mix of leaves and grass from last fall
and I think the bottom even has some from the previous fall, and it isn't
"as far along" as the rectangular bin which is mostly grass. Thus my
thinking some more water might help.

I have a similar mulch pile and it takes
at least a
year before it is fully cooked.
I say be a bit more patient.

It's either patience .... or having mulch rather than compost.

thanx for the advice


Sherwin D.

hob wrote:

Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across
and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4
feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily
grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a
hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be
sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy
cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside,
and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It
definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time,
I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm
at
the end of winter and then cold now.

Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and
what
should I change, if anything ?

--
------

"hob" wrote in message
...

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
Hi Hob,

Sounds like you have taken the proper steps to get your mulch
pile
working. I
would guess it has shut down partly due to the cold weather.

That was the odd part - it was active and warm inside the piles in late
February, and cool inside them in early April. (Mpls)

I would wait for
the
warmer Spring temperatures for it to get started again, keeping the pile
moist.

I did water the bins today, on the chance they were not damp enough.

You
may be rushing things a bit expecting to get the fully composted nice
black
stuff this
early in the season.

I had heard it took a few months - the grass bin has been there and added
to
(no chemicals on the grass) since the first mowing of last spring. And a
lot
of it now looks like dried grass with powdery white mold.

My guess is that the pile with the leaves and grass should
work
better than the straight grass pile.

I would have thought so, too - but the opposite seems to be the case - the
cylindrical bin has the roughly 50-50 mix of leaves and grass from last
fall
and I think the bottom even has some from the previous fall, and it isn't
"as far along" as the rectangular bin which is mostly grass. Thus my
thinking some more water might help.

I have a similar mulch pile and it takes
at least a
year before it is fully cooked.
I say be a bit more patient.

It's either patience .... or having mulch rather than compost.

thanx for the advice


Sherwin D.

I think the have patience bit is the key here. Unless you desperately need
the compost leave it another few months and just observe what happens. You
can turn it as others have said or you can simply leave it and see what
develops. Some compost makers are paranoid about anaerobic decomposition
(lack of oxygen) and tell you to constantly turn and turn your pile to
encourage aerobic composting. Anaerobic breakdown will give you good compost
through it will take a time. It won't kill weed seeds (a hot compost will)
but that is a problem depending on what you put in the compost. Leave it for
a while longer and nature will likely do a decent job. A good rule of thumb,
as far as I am concerned, is check for worm life. If there is a good build
up of worms (apart from the very hot centre) indicates things are breaking
down.

rob