Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4 feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside, and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time, I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm at
the end of winter and then cold now.


Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and what
should I change, if anything ?


--
------

"hob" wrote in message
. ..
Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across
and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4 feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily
grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy
cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside, and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time, I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm at
the end of winter and then cold now.


Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and
what
should I change, if anything ?


It's supposed to be built up in layers. The grass bin, in particular, is a
problem because a pile of just grass tends to seal its own insides, and you
get anaerobic decomposition (relative absence of air). Re-mix it all, making
alternating six inch layers of green & brown matter (dried leaves & stems),
with whatever kitchen scraps you want to add within the layers. The brown
matter is difficult at certain times of year, obviously, since you don't
always have falling leaves. One way around this is to save surplus dried
leaves in OPEN bags in the garage, so you have a supply to add later.

I suspect it's anaerobic, because of lack of oxygen. How does it smell when
you turn it? Frequent turning helps bring in oxygen and mixing up the
ingredients. Layering by itself does little. Adding fertilizer that you
pay for is mostly wasting money.
--
_________________
John Henry Wheeler
Washington, DC
USDA Zone 7
"hob" wrote in message
. ..
Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across
and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4 feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily
grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy
cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside, and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time, I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm at
the end of winter and then cold now.


Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and
what
should I change, if anything ?


--
------

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:18:43 -0500, "hob"
wrote:

Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4 feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside, and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time, I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm at
the end of winter and then cold now.


Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and what
should I change, if anything ?


To keep a compost alive, it must be kept moist and fed a mix of green
and brown layers. Turning it once a month is about right. If it
smells, more brown material is needed. Your compost size is about
right. Do add fertilizer.

Hi Hob,

Sounds like you have taken the proper steps to get your mulch pile
working. I
would guess it has shut down partly due to the cold weather. I would wait for
the
warmer Spring temperatures for it to get started again, keeping the pile moist.
You
may be rushing things a bit expecting to get the fully composted nice black
stuff this
early in the season. My guess is that the pile with the leaves and grass should
work
better than the straight grass pile. I have a similar mulch pile and it takes
at least a
year before it is fully cooked. I say be a bit more patient.

Sherwin D.

hob wrote:

Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4 feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside, and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time, I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm at
the end of winter and then cold now.

Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and what
should I change, if anything ?

--
------

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"hob" wrote in message
. ..
Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across
and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4
feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily
grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a
hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be
sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy
cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside,
and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It
definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time,
I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm
at
the end of winter and then cold now.


Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and
what
should I change, if anything ?


It's supposed to be built up in layers. The grass bin, in particular, is a
problem because a pile of just grass tends to seal its own insides, and
you
get anaerobic decomposition (relative absence of air).

Thanx for the input - some more background -
It was not "sealed" this year - I had had that the previous year where
too much "just grass" made it "heavy" and sealed it, as you say. So I kept
if from packing down when I put the mower's bagfuls in, and I mixed in some
of the previous year's dried shredded leaf I had kept in bags for mulch, etc
(my mower shreds dried leaves into bits about half the size of a dime).
And being in the garden cloth seems to keep it from getting soggy.

I did not layer it per se, as it was mixed with a pitchfork about once a
month.

Re-mix it all, making
alternating six inch layers of green & brown matter (dried leaves &
stems),
with whatever kitchen scraps you want to add within the layers. The brown
matter is difficult at certain times of year, obviously, since you don't
always have falling leaves. One way around this is to save surplus dried
leaves in OPEN bags in the garage, so you have a supply to add later.

"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
I suspect it's anaerobic, because of lack of oxygen. How does it smell
when
you turn it?

Sweet and a little moldy -

Thanx for the input - some more background -
I had the smell the previous year where too much "just grass" made it
"heavy" and sealed it. So I kept if from packing down when I put the mower's
bagfuls in, and I mixed in some of the previous year's dried shredded leaf I
had kept in bags for mulch, etc (my mower shreds dried leaves into bits
about half the size of a dime) to keep it form packing.
And being in the garden cloth seems to keep it from getting soggy.

It was mixed with a pitchfork about once a month.

Frequent turning helps bring in oxygen and mixing up the
ingredients. Layering by itself does little. Adding fertilizer that you
pay for is mostly wasting money.

FWIW - I got that fertilizer thing from the extension service's bulletin on
making compost bins, and from the garden show.

--
_________________
John Henry Wheeler
Washington, DC
USDA Zone 7
"hob" wrote in message
. ..
Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across
and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4
feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily
grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a
hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be
sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy
cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside,
and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It
definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time,
I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm
at
the end of winter and then cold now.


Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and
what
should I change, if anything ?


--
------

"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:18:43 -0500, "hob"
wrote:

Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across
and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4
feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily
grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be
sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy
cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside,
and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time, I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm at
the end of winter and then cold now.


Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and
what
should I change, if anything ?


To keep a compost alive, it must be kept moist and fed a mix of green
and brown layers. Turning it once a month is about right. If it
smells, more brown material is needed. Your compost size is about
right. Do add fertilizer.

Thanx for the input - I watered both bins today, in case they lack
sufficient moisture. I'll see if that helps.

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
Hi Hob,

Sounds like you have taken the proper steps to get your mulch pile
working. I
would guess it has shut down partly due to the cold weather.

That was the odd part - it was active and warm inside the piles in late
February, and cool inside them in early April. (Mpls)

I would wait for
the
warmer Spring temperatures for it to get started again, keeping the pile
moist.

I did water the bins today, on the chance they were not damp enough.

You
may be rushing things a bit expecting to get the fully composted nice
black
stuff this
early in the season.

I had heard it took a few months - the grass bin has been there and added to
(no chemicals on the grass) since the first mowing of last spring. And a lot
of it now looks like dried grass with powdery white mold.

My guess is that the pile with the leaves and grass should
work
better than the straight grass pile.

I would have thought so, too - but the opposite seems to be the case - the
cylindrical bin has the roughly 50-50 mix of leaves and grass from last fall
and I think the bottom even has some from the previous fall, and it isn't
"as far along" as the rectangular bin which is mostly grass. Thus my
thinking some more water might help.

I have a similar mulch pile and it takes
at least a
year before it is fully cooked.
I say be a bit more patient.

It's either patience .... or having mulch rather than compost.

thanx for the advice


Sherwin D.

hob wrote:

Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across
and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4
feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily
grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a
hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be
sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy
cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside,
and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It
definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time,
I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm
at
the end of winter and then cold now.

Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and
what
should I change, if anything ?

--
------

"hob" wrote in message
. ..

"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
I suspect it's anaerobic, because of lack of oxygen. How does it smell
when
you turn it?

Sweet and a little moldy -

Thanx for the input - some more background -
I had the smell the previous year where too much "just grass" made it
"heavy" and sealed it. So I kept if from packing down when I put the
mower's
bagfuls in, and I mixed in some of the previous year's dried shredded leaf
I
had kept in bags for mulch, etc (my mower shreds dried leaves into bits
about half the size of a dime) to keep it form packing.
And being in the garden cloth seems to keep it from getting soggy.

It was mixed with a pitchfork about once a month.

Frequent turning helps bring in oxygen and mixing up the
ingredients. Layering by itself does little. Adding fertilizer that you
pay for is mostly wasting money.

FWIW - I got that fertilizer thing from the extension service's bulletin
on
making compost bins, and from the garden show.

Fertilizer should only be added if you know your compost pile has a very
high carbon to nitrogen ratio. With the amount of grass you're using,
surely you have enough nitrogen. Be careful with water. Too much can make
it very difficult for your pile to get oxygen and it will go anaerobic. I'd
add a little at a time to see if it makes the pile heat up. I keep my piles
on the dry side and they do great. I've never added fertilizer. My "green"
(i.e., high nitrogen) material comes from household kitchen waste and lots
(15 pounds a day) of coffee grounds from Starbucks. I get more coffee
grounds than I can compost, so I just add the extra directly to the yard.
Smells good.

John Henry Wheeler
Washington, DC
USDA Zone 7

"hob" wrote in message
...

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
Hi Hob,

Sounds like you have taken the proper steps to get your mulch
pile
working. I
would guess it has shut down partly due to the cold weather.

That was the odd part - it was active and warm inside the piles in late
February, and cool inside them in early April. (Mpls)

I would wait for
the
warmer Spring temperatures for it to get started again, keeping the pile
moist.

I did water the bins today, on the chance they were not damp enough.

You
may be rushing things a bit expecting to get the fully composted nice
black
stuff this
early in the season.

I had heard it took a few months - the grass bin has been there and added
to
(no chemicals on the grass) since the first mowing of last spring. And a
lot
of it now looks like dried grass with powdery white mold.

My guess is that the pile with the leaves and grass should
work
better than the straight grass pile.

I would have thought so, too - but the opposite seems to be the case - the
cylindrical bin has the roughly 50-50 mix of leaves and grass from last
fall
and I think the bottom even has some from the previous fall, and it isn't
"as far along" as the rectangular bin which is mostly grass. Thus my
thinking some more water might help.

I have a similar mulch pile and it takes
at least a
year before it is fully cooked.
I say be a bit more patient.

It's either patience .... or having mulch rather than compost.

thanx for the advice


Sherwin D.

I think the have patience bit is the key here. Unless you desperately need
the compost leave it another few months and just observe what happens. You
can turn it as others have said or you can simply leave it and see what
develops. Some compost makers are paranoid about anaerobic decomposition
(lack of oxygen) and tell you to constantly turn and turn your pile to
encourage aerobic composting. Anaerobic breakdown will give you good compost
through it will take a time. It won't kill weed seeds (a hot compost will)
but that is a problem depending on what you put in the compost. Leave it for
a while longer and nature will likely do a decent job. A good rule of thumb,
as far as I am concerned, is check for worm life. If there is a good build
up of worms (apart from the very hot centre) indicates things are breaking
down.

rob

Mix in some shredded leaves, you have a mower run some over, turn it
and keep it moist. Don't worry about layers it composts much better
when mixed.
It's done when none of the original ingrediants are recognizable.
Straight up grass clippings pack down and go anaerobic after the
initial heating and stinking phase where they offgas ammonia.

hob wrote:
Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4 feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside, and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time, I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm at
the end of winter and then cold now.


Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and what
should I change, if anything ?



My compost is primarily brown matter: leaves from oak, ash, liquidambar,
and zelkova. The only fertilizer that I add is high-nitrogen: urea (in
very small amounts).

I had a great compost pile, just a mound against a corner of a block
wall. When I had new landscaping installed, the contractor tried to do
me a favor by cleaning up my yard. Not only did he remove all the leaf
mulch from my camellias, but he also removed my "mess" -- my compost
pile. Since then, I learned to always advise contractors to leave the
mulch and compost.

It took about 14 months for a new compost pile to finally produce a good
compost (actually a form of leaf mold). Now, however, I keep some of
the old compost in the pile when I add more leaves. This ensures that
the necessary micro-organisms are present. The time to compost should
now be about 6 months.

--

David E. Ross
http://www.rossde.com/

Concerned about someone (e.g., Pres. Bush) snooping
into your E-mail? Use PGP.
See my http://www.rossde.com/PGP/

"hob" wrote in message
...

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
Hi Hob,

Sounds like you have taken the proper steps to get your mulch
pile
working. I
would guess it has shut down partly due to the cold weather.

That was the odd part - it was active and warm inside the piles in late
February, and cool inside them in early April. (Mpls)

I would wait for
the
warmer Spring temperatures for it to get started again, keeping the pile
moist.

I did water the bins today, on the chance they were not damp enough.

You
may be rushing things a bit expecting to get the fully composted nice
black
stuff this
early in the season.

I had heard it took a few months - the grass bin has been there and added
to
(no chemicals on the grass) since the first mowing of last spring. And a
lot
of it now looks like dried grass with powdery white mold.

My guess is that the pile with the leaves and grass should
work
better than the straight grass pile.

I would have thought so, too - but the opposite seems to be the case - the
cylindrical bin has the roughly 50-50 mix of leaves and grass from last
fall
and I think the bottom even has some from the previous fall, and it isn't
"as far along" as the rectangular bin which is mostly grass. Thus my
thinking some more water might help.

I have a similar mulch pile and it takes
at least a
year before it is fully cooked.
I say be a bit more patient.

It's either patience .... or having mulch rather than compost.

thanx for the advice

Are both your piles in full sun? I compose in fairly heavy shade and I
don't expect this year's additions to be ready until next year. The amount
of sunlight on the pile makes a big difference.

Jim

"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
I suspect it's anaerobic, because of lack of oxygen. How does it smell
when you turn it? Frequent turning helps bring in oxygen and mixing up the
ingredients. Layering by itself does little. Adding fertilizer that you
pay for is mostly wasting money.

While generally true that is not always the case. If circumstances are such
that you have too high a proportion of carbon (brown) to nitrogen (green) a
bit of relatively inexpensive spring lawn fertilizer can redress the
balance.

Jim