My thought about why your pile is cool now but was hot earlier is that all
the easily digested food has been used up, and the microorganisms are not
able to consume the remaining food fast enough to keep the pile warm. It
will turn to compost or leaf mold if you keep it moist and wait.

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
Hi Hob,

Sounds like you have taken the proper steps to get your mulch pile
working. I
would guess it has shut down partly due to the cold weather. I would wait
for
the
warmer Spring temperatures for it to get started again, keeping the pile
moist.
You
may be rushing things a bit expecting to get the fully composted nice
black
stuff this
early in the season. My guess is that the pile with the leaves and grass
should
work
better than the straight grass pile. I have a similar mulch pile and it
takes
at least a
year before it is fully cooked. I say be a bit more patient.

Sherwin D.

hob wrote:

Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet across
and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4
feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily
grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a
hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be
sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy
cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside,
and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It
definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and time,
I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm
at
the end of winter and then cold now.

Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and
what
should I change, if anything ?

--
------

"Jim Voege" wrote in message
...
"hob" wrote in message
...

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
Hi Hob,

Sounds like you have taken the proper steps to get your mulch
pile
working. I
would guess it has shut down partly due to the cold weather.

That was the odd part - it was active and warm inside the piles in late
February, and cool inside them in early April. (Mpls)

I would wait for
the
warmer Spring temperatures for it to get started again, keeping the
pile
moist.

I did water the bins today, on the chance they were not damp enough.

You
may be rushing things a bit expecting to get the fully composted nice
black
stuff this
early in the season.

I had heard it took a few months - the grass bin has been there and
added
to
(no chemicals on the grass) since the first mowing of last spring. And a
lot
of it now looks like dried grass with powdery white mold.

My guess is that the pile with the leaves and grass should
work
better than the straight grass pile.

I would have thought so, too - but the opposite seems to be the case -
the
cylindrical bin has the roughly 50-50 mix of leaves and grass from last
fall
and I think the bottom even has some from the previous fall, and it
isn't
"as far along" as the rectangular bin which is mostly grass. Thus my
thinking some more water might help.

I have a similar mulch pile and it takes
at least a
year before it is fully cooked.
I say be a bit more patient.

It's either patience .... or having mulch rather than compost.

thanx for the advice

Are both your piles in full sun? I compose in fairly heavy shade and I
don't expect this year's additions to be ready until next year. The
amount
of sunlight on the pile makes a big difference.

They are in the shade - deep shade. I wondered about that, but since the
piles make their own heat which would increase bacterial activity, I thought
it wouldn't be a major factor.



Jim

"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
My thought about why your pile is cool now but was hot earlier is that all
the easily digested food has been used up, and the microorganisms are not
able to consume the remaining food fast enough to keep the pile warm.

That makes sense and was kind of my thought -
but I also thought that if their food was gone, would the stuff in there now
was all that there would be unless I did changed something- i.e., all I'd
get was light brown plant matter rather than dark brown compost.

Perhaps there are several varieties of microbes, and some (the finishers,
hopefully) don't do as well in the cool weather?

It
will turn to compost or leaf mold if you keep it moist and wait.

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
Hi Hob,

Sounds like you have taken the proper steps to get your mulch
pile
working. I
would guess it has shut down partly due to the cold weather. I would
wait
for
the
warmer Spring temperatures for it to get started again, keeping the pile
moist.
You
may be rushing things a bit expecting to get the fully composted nice
black
stuff this
early in the season. My guess is that the pile with the leaves and grass
should
work
better than the straight grass pile. I have a similar mulch pile and it
takes
at least a
year before it is fully cooked. I say be a bit more patient.

Sherwin D.

hob wrote:

Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I started
a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet
across
and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by 4
feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with primarily
grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50 mix
of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a
hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to be
sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice
last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to
be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy
cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist inside,
and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It
definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and
time,
I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be warm
at
the end of winter and then cold now.

Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing and
what
should I change, if anything ?

--
------

"hob" wrote in message
...

Are both your piles in full sun? I compose in fairly heavy shade and I
don't expect this year's additions to be ready until next year. The
amount
of sunlight on the pile makes a big difference.

They are in the shade - deep shade. I wondered about that, but since the
piles make their own heat which would increase bacterial activity, I
thought
it wouldn't be a major factor.

It makes a huge difference, although I think it's not so much in how well it
composts in warm weather. Rather, it determines whether the pile is frozen
or defrosted in winter. My compost box was full in early December last year,
and normally, I wouldn't have expected any action from it until it defrosted
in March or early April. But, it's been a mild winter, the box is in the sun
for most of the day, and when I checked it in mid-March, its volume had
reduced by half. Next year, it might not be that way.

Yes, I agree. I expect there are many type of microorganism in there, some
of which operate faster than others. Also the slowdown can be because the
food is now more spread out and it takes longer for a microbe to find it,
and because the microbes now also have to deal with being surrounded with
their waste products.

"hob" wrote in message
...

"Andrew Ostrander" wrote in message
...
My thought about why your pile is cool now but was hot earlier is that
all
the easily digested food has been used up, and the microorganisms are
not
able to consume the remaining food fast enough to keep the pile warm.

That makes sense and was kind of my thought -
but I also thought that if their food was gone, would the stuff in there
now
was all that there would be unless I did changed something- i.e., all I'd
get was light brown plant matter rather than dark brown compost.

Perhaps there are several varieties of microbes, and some (the finishers,
hopefully) don't do as well in the cool weather?

It
will turn to compost or leaf mold if you keep it moist and wait.

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
Hi Hob,

Sounds like you have taken the proper steps to get your mulch
pile
working. I
would guess it has shut down partly due to the cold weather. I would
wait
for
the
warmer Spring temperatures for it to get started again, keeping the
pile
moist.
You
may be rushing things a bit expecting to get the fully composted nice
black
stuff this
early in the season. My guess is that the pile with the leaves and
grass
should
work
better than the straight grass pile. I have a similar mulch pile and
it
takes
at least a
year before it is fully cooked. I say be a bit more patient.

Sherwin D.

hob wrote:

Hi

I have been gardening for nearly 40 years, and two years ago I
started
a
compost bin for my lawn clippings.

I have two bins - one is a cylinder made of garden wire, 4 feet
across
and
stands about 5 feet high.
The other is made of open-spaced planks and is 3 feet by 6 feet by
4
feet
high.

Both were filled again last year, the rectangular one with
primarily
grass
clippings across the year; the cylindrical one with about a 50-50
mix
of
finely shredded dropped maple leaves and grass clippings with a
hand-held
spread's worth of 10-10-10 every three inches of depth, watered to
be
sure
it was moist around mid-September. They were turned once and twice
last
year.

This early spring, I go out in the cold and check, expecting them to
be
frozen solid, and they were loose and warm inside - they were busy
cooking.

But now, a few weeks later, they are definitely cold and moist
inside,
and
the mix still looks like partly moldy grass and leaf shred. It
definitely
isn 't dark compost.

Since the microbes had fertilizer, moisture, no packing down, and
time,
I
would have expected more breakdown, or at least the mix to not be
warm
at
the end of winter and then cold now.

Any ideas as to why they stopped working, and/or what am I missing
and
what
should I change, if anything ?

--
------

USDA Zone 7
"Jim Voege" wrote in message
...
"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
I suspect it's anaerobic, because of lack of oxygen. How does it smell
when you turn it? Frequent turning helps bring in oxygen and mixing up
the ingredients. Layering by itself does little. Adding fertilizer that
you pay for is mostly wasting money.

While generally true that is not always the case. If circumstances are
such that you have too high a proportion of carbon (brown) to nitrogen
(green) a bit of relatively inexpensive spring lawn fertilizer can redress
the balance.

Jim
Or you could get lots of free coffee grounds from a local business that
makes lots of coffee, e.g., Starbucks. I get about 15 pounds a day of
coffee grounds. Then in the fall I collect bags of leaves in the
neighborhood, grind them up, and add them to compost piles the next year.
_________________
John Henry Wheeler
Washington, DC

"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
USDA Zone 7
"Jim Voege" wrote in message
...
"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
I suspect it's anaerobic, because of lack of oxygen. How does it smell
when you turn it? Frequent turning helps bring in oxygen and mixing up
the ingredients. Layering by itself does little. Adding fertilizer
that
you pay for is mostly wasting money.

While generally true that is not always the case. If circumstances are
such that you have too high a proportion of carbon (brown) to nitrogen
(green) a bit of relatively inexpensive spring lawn fertilizer can
redress
the balance.

Jim
Or you could get lots of free coffee grounds from a local business that
makes lots of coffee, e.g., Starbucks. I get about 15 pounds a day of
coffee grounds. Then in the fall I collect bags of leaves in the
neighborhood, grind them up, and add them to compost piles the next year.

John. An interesting scavange, free used coffee grounds.
What arrangements did you put in place with starbucks to get them?
How do Starbucks 'store' their waste grounds and in what receptacle do you
get it home?
Do you throw them straight in with your existing compost?
If so, what do you add to the grounds in the way of carbon (and how much) to
get the correct ratio?

Rob

ps have you ever tried drying them and using a bulk amount to brew a cup of
coffee?

"George.com" wrote in message
...

"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
USDA Zone 7
"Jim Voege" wrote in message
...
"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
I suspect it's anaerobic, because of lack of oxygen. How does it smell
when you turn it? Frequent turning helps bring in oxygen and mixing up
the ingredients. Layering by itself does little. Adding fertilizer
that
you pay for is mostly wasting money.

While generally true that is not always the case. If circumstances are
such that you have too high a proportion of carbon (brown) to nitrogen
(green) a bit of relatively inexpensive spring lawn fertilizer can
redress
the balance.

Jim
Or you could get lots of free coffee grounds from a local business that
makes lots of coffee, e.g., Starbucks. I get about 15 pounds a day of
coffee grounds. Then in the fall I collect bags of leaves in the
neighborhood, grind them up, and add them to compost piles the next year.

John. An interesting scavange, free used coffee grounds.
What arrangements did you put in place with starbucks to get them?
How do Starbucks 'store' their waste grounds and in what receptacle do you
get it home?
Do you throw them straight in with your existing compost?
If so, what do you add to the grounds in the way of carbon (and how much)
to
get the correct ratio?

Rob

ps have you ever tried drying them and using a bulk amount to brew a cup
of
coffee?
Nearly 10 years ago, I got the idea from my sister who collects coffee
grounds from her local coffee store. I asked the owner of a coffee and
juice store near me if he would save coffee grounds and orange rinds for me
and he agreed. This went on for about 4 years until he was evicted for not
paying rent. Then I asked the manager of the Starbucks 3 blocks from my
house if they would save coffee grounds for me, and they agreed. They have
a trash can with a trash bag in it behind their expresso machine. So the
expresso grounds go right into the can, and is already bagged. I pick up
the bags nearly every day except in the Winter and carry them home. It is
now the official policy of Starbucks to make used grounds available to its
customers. They package it in large empty bags. My Starbucks doesn't often
do that because I get the grounds first.
I don't worry much about the C/N ratio. I compost in a container called a
"Bio Stack." The last batch I started with a "Supercan" of ground leaves,
16 bags of coffee grounds (probably averaging 12-15 lbs/bag), and 8 gallons
of kitchen waste I'd collected for several weeks. It's about 3' x 3' x 2.5'
I plan on adding more leaves and a little more coffee.
Because I get so much coffee, I don't compost it all. Instead I throw some
of it directly on my plant beds.
No I've never tried to brew coffee from the grounds. Nearly all the
caffeine and good flavors are extracted when made. I suspect it would not
taste very good.
_________________
John Henry Wheeler
Washington, DC
USDA Zone 7

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"hob" wrote in message
...

Are both your piles in full sun? I compose in fairly heavy shade and I
don't expect this year's additions to be ready until next year. The
amount
of sunlight on the pile makes a big difference.

They are in the shade - deep shade. I wondered about that, but since the
piles make their own heat which would increase bacterial activity, I
thought
it wouldn't be a major factor.

It makes a huge difference, although I think it's not so much in how well
it composts in warm weather. Rather, it determines whether the pile is
frozen or defrosted in winter. My compost box was full in early December
last year, and normally, I wouldn't have expected any action from it until
it defrosted in March or early April. But, it's been a mild winter, the
box is in the sun for most of the day, and when I checked it in mid-March,
its volume had reduced by half. Next year, it might not be that way.

I don't think it makes much difference to the compost process if the pile is
in the sun or shade. Sun will dry it out some, so more water will need to
be added. I compost in the shade for 2 reasons: 1) I'd rather work in the
shade, and 2) It's an area where fewer plants will grow. I've had 3'
diameter piles that were frozen on the outside and 140 degrees on the
inside. Turning a pile really helps with complete composting.
_________________
John Henry Wheeler
Washington, DC
USDA Zone 7

"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
"George.com" wrote in message
...

"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
USDA Zone 7
"Jim Voege" wrote in message
...
"John Wheeler" wrote in message
...
I suspect it's anaerobic, because of lack of oxygen. How does it
smell
when you turn it? Frequent turning helps bring in oxygen and mixing
up
the ingredients. Layering by itself does little. Adding fertilizer
that
you pay for is mostly wasting money.

While generally true that is not always the case. If circumstances
are
such that you have too high a proportion of carbon (brown) to
nitrogen
(green) a bit of relatively inexpensive spring lawn fertilizer can
redress
the balance.

Jim
Or you could get lots of free coffee grounds from a local business that
makes lots of coffee, e.g., Starbucks. I get about 15 pounds a day of
coffee grounds. Then in the fall I collect bags of leaves in the
neighborhood, grind them up, and add them to compost piles the next
year.

John. An interesting scavange, free used coffee grounds.
What arrangements did you put in place with starbucks to get them?
How do Starbucks 'store' their waste grounds and in what receptacle do
you
get it home?
Do you throw them straight in with your existing compost?
If so, what do you add to the grounds in the way of carbon (and how
much)
to
get the correct ratio?

Rob

ps have you ever tried drying them and using a bulk amount to brew a cup
of
coffee?
Nearly 10 years ago, I got the idea from my sister who collects coffee
grounds from her local coffee store. I asked the owner of a coffee and
juice store near me if he would save coffee grounds and orange rinds for
me
and he agreed. This went on for about 4 years until he was evicted for
not
paying rent. Then I asked the manager of the Starbucks 3 blocks from my
house if they would save coffee grounds for me, and they agreed. They
have
a trash can with a trash bag in it behind their expresso machine. So the
expresso grounds go right into the can, and is already bagged. I pick up
the bags nearly every day except in the Winter and carry them home. It is
now the official policy of Starbucks to make used grounds available to its
customers. They package it in large empty bags. My Starbucks doesn't
often
do that because I get the grounds first.
I don't worry much about the C/N ratio. I compost in a container called a
"Bio Stack." The last batch I started with a "Supercan" of ground leaves,
16 bags of coffee grounds (probably averaging 12-15 lbs/bag), and 8
gallons
of kitchen waste I'd collected for several weeks. It's about 3' x 3' x
2.5'
I plan on adding more leaves and a little more coffee.

Can I take it that you batch compost John, when you do, rather than
continuous compost?

rob