I have received six tubers of this terrestrial orchid native to Japan where
it is known as the Egret Orchid. It is also known taxonomically as pecteilis
radiata.

Do any of you have experience growing these? I've found only two references
to culture on the web. One grower reported limited success growing in
sphagnum. Another site said part to full sun in well-drained, acidic soil
kept moist until after flowering is completed and the plants go dormant. Any
other suggestions for success?

Except for Bletilla striata, I grow all my orchids in pots and in the
winter, indoors.

In article , Mark Prout
wrote:

I have received six tubers of this terrestrial orchid native to Japan where
it is known as the Egret Orchid.

Or Crane Orchid. Because it really does look like the Japanese white
crane, a symbol of health & long life & fortune, & of Japan Airlines. Also
it lives in bogs where cranes nest. But in "captivity" it doesn't like to
be as wet as in the wild, & its bogs dry out in seasonally, so duplicating
it's wet then dry natural habitat can be a pain. Seeds almost never
germinate for amateurs as they're triggered by a specific bog bacteria in
their natural environment, but it should produce offsets (I think) as
the old pseudobulb wears out, so will perepetuate itself.

It is also known taxonomically as pecteilis
radiata.

Do any of you have experience growing these? I've found only two references
to culture on the web. One grower reported limited success growing in
sphagnum. Another site said part to full sun in well-drained, acidic soil
kept moist until after flowering is completed and the plants go dormant. Any
other suggestions for success?

Except for Bletilla striata, I grow all my orchids in pots and in the
winter, indoors.

On the west coast these reputedly have naturalized in some peoples' yards,
but won't spread beyond the initial plantings because seeds don't
germinate. The only terrestrial orchid I grow so far is a comparatively
easy pleione (in full bloom right now; your pecteilis will likely be a
summer bloomer), so am reluctant to suggest much, as you would already
know more than I know, since you do grow other kinds of orchids & didn't
restrict yourself to such an easy one. But I think the reason you're
getting contradictory information is because terrestrial orchids do in
fact sometimes grow in moss rather than in the ground, so that that
they're encountered in the wild growing in moss atop rocks or even up in
trees just like epiphytes. Soil is best (with one-third orchid bark) but
with the tops of the bulb sticking above the surface of the soil then
finish "burying" it with a protectie layer ofliving moss, not with dead
moss.

I think the only thing special about your pecteilis's needs will be its
boggy spring & summer, dry autumn & winter cycle -- when it wants water
it'll die the instant it goes without, & when it doesn't want water it'll
rot the instant it gets watered by accident, so it's a tough balance. It
sounds bassackwards for Japanese weather patterns but the bogs are caused
by snowmelting off mountains rather than by rainfall & they do dry out in
winter rather than summer, when the mountain snows are no longer melting
off.

When leaves first appear on P. sagarikii they form a funnel to catch
rainwater, but in "captivity" they don't actually like to have any
stagnant water in those leaves, so maybe P. striata will be the same &
when watering it you'll need to take care not to fill it with water. I
presume you already tried googling for info. I just now gave google a try
& found nothing better than this page:
http://plantsdatabase.com/go/48722/
which is minimal but does give seasonal temperatures, & notes that living
sphagnum is preferred over the pseudobulb's surface; so that might be
enough to get you started right.

Personally I would never try this orchid cuz I'm cowardly about
houseplants & I want everything to fit in the yard so that Nature helps me
out & plants aren't completely reliant on me alone. When I was researching
terrestrial orchids, I reluctantly decided I would probably fail with any
orchid except pleine & bletilla, because they are the ones best apt to
naturalize outdoors & end up taking care of themselves (pecteilis might do
so if one is willing to cover them with a waterproof tent in winter). If I
may judge it correctly from its photograph, the one you've just gotten has
got to be one of the most charming orchids of all, so intensely bird-like.
Best of luck with it, & if you can report back with future success (or
tragic failure) I'd love to have your notes on it, maybe I'll even get
daring if you find it easier than I suspect.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

Mark,

A picture may be found at:
http://www.orchidspecies.com/indexfghijkl.htm#sec8

Culture information also but it doesn't compare to that posted by paghat the
ratgirl.

Bob


"Mark Prout" wrote in message
...
I have received six tubers of this terrestrial orchid native to Japan
where
it is known as the Egret Orchid. It is also known taxonomically as
pecteilis
radiata.

Do any of you have experience growing these? I've found only two
references
to culture on the web. One grower reported limited success growing in
sphagnum. Another site said part to full sun in well-drained, acidic soil
kept moist until after flowering is completed and the plants go dormant.
Any
other suggestions for success?

Except for Bletilla striata, I grow all my orchids in pots and in the
winter, indoors.

"paghat" wrote in message
news

Personally I would never try this orchid cuz I'm cowardly about
houseplants & I want everything to fit in the yard so that Nature helps me
out & plants aren't completely reliant on me alone. When I was researching
terrestrial orchids, I reluctantly decided I would probably fail with any
orchid except pleine & bletilla, because they are the ones best apt to
naturalize outdoors & end up taking care of themselves (pecteilis might do
so if one is willing to cover them with a waterproof tent in winter). If I

There are a number of other genera that should do well for you. You might
want to visit http://www.hardy-orchids.com, for some (DACTYLORHIZA,
Orchis,CALANTHE,Cymbidium and a variety of Bletilla and Pleione), and
http://www.thimblefarms.com/ for others, including especially cypripediums
(also Aplectrum,Anacamptus,Calanthe,Calopogon, Calypso, Cephalanthera,
Dactylorhiza, Eleorchis, Epipactis, Goodyera, Orchis, Platanthera,
Ponerorchis, Spiranthes plus a number of intergenerics and a huge variety of
Bletilla and Pleione). Fraser Thimble farms has a much wider selection than
Red's Hardy Orchids, but there may be a tradeoff WRT shipping across the
border and the exchange rate.

Maybe visiting these web sites will encourage you to be adventurous and try
some other terrestrials also. Some of these hardy orchids are said to be
challenging, but others, like the cypripediums, are supposed to be quite
easy. I know some folk who have rescued cypripedium bulbs from sites where
they were destined to be destroyed by construction activity, and just
transplanted clumps of bulbs, dirt and all, from the construction site to
their back yard and left them to do their thing. They eventually formed
rather large patches of plants, creating an impressive display when all are
in bloom. (I believe, but am not certain, that both vendors I mentioned
supply only nursery grown plants, so you need not worry about endangering
wild populations with irresponsible collecting.) But whether or not they'll
be easy will be a function of how well you can duplicate their native
environment as well as if you can find a suitable specimen. With
cypripediums, for example, the genus is quite adaptable, with species
inhabiting a range of environments from bogs to forest understory: a wild
collected plant from a bog or meadow is likely to die in an urban garden
(the latter is due to the fact that the meadow grasses provide much needed
dappled shade in the hottest part of the summer), while at the same time a
nursery grown specimen will have already been through artificial selection
for thriving in gardens simply by virtue of the fact that only from the
initial specimens, only those suitable for a garden would survive the
nursery's conditions.

HTH

Ted

Thanks, ratgirl. Guess I'll grow it in pot to bett control its cycle.

From: (paghat)
Organization: Museum of Disfigurement
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.orchids,rec.gardens
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:02:04 -0700
Subject: Habenaria radiata

In article , Mark Prout
wrote:

I have received six tubers of this terrestrial orchid native to Japan where
it is known as the Egret Orchid.

Or Crane Orchid. Because it really does look like the Japanese white
crane, a symbol of health & long life & fortune, & of Japan Airlines. Also
it lives in bogs where cranes nest. But in "captivity" it doesn't like to
be as wet as in the wild, & its bogs dry out in seasonally, so duplicating
it's wet then dry natural habitat can be a pain. Seeds almost never
germinate for amateurs as they're triggered by a specific bog bacteria in
their natural environment, but it should produce offsets (I think) as
the old pseudobulb wears out, so will perepetuate itself.

It is also known taxonomically as pecteilis
radiata.

Do any of you have experience growing these? I've found only two references
to culture on the web. One grower reported limited success growing in
sphagnum. Another site said part to full sun in well-drained, acidic soil
kept moist until after flowering is completed and the plants go dormant. Any
other suggestions for success?

Except for Bletilla striata, I grow all my orchids in pots and in the
winter, indoors.

On the west coast these reputedly have naturalized in some peoples' yards,
but won't spread beyond the initial plantings because seeds don't
germinate. The only terrestrial orchid I grow so far is a comparatively
easy pleione (in full bloom right now; your pecteilis will likely be a
summer bloomer), so am reluctant to suggest much, as you would already
know more than I know, since you do grow other kinds of orchids & didn't
restrict yourself to such an easy one. But I think the reason you're
getting contradictory information is because terrestrial orchids do in
fact sometimes grow in moss rather than in the ground, so that that
they're encountered in the wild growing in moss atop rocks or even up in
trees just like epiphytes. Soil is best (with one-third orchid bark) but
with the tops of the bulb sticking above the surface of the soil then
finish "burying" it with a protectie layer ofliving moss, not with dead
moss.

I think the only thing special about your pecteilis's needs will be its
boggy spring & summer, dry autumn & winter cycle -- when it wants water
it'll die the instant it goes without, & when it doesn't want water it'll
rot the instant it gets watered by accident, so it's a tough balance. It
sounds bassackwards for Japanese weather patterns but the bogs are caused
by snowmelting off mountains rather than by rainfall & they do dry out in
winter rather than summer, when the mountain snows are no longer melting
off.

When leaves first appear on P. sagarikii they form a funnel to catch
rainwater, but in "captivity" they don't actually like to have any
stagnant water in those leaves, so maybe P. striata will be the same &
when watering it you'll need to take care not to fill it with water. I
presume you already tried googling for info. I just now gave google a try
& found nothing better than this page:
http://plantsdatabase.com/go/48722/
which is minimal but does give seasonal temperatures, & notes that living
sphagnum is preferred over the pseudobulb's surface; so that might be
enough to get you started right.

Personally I would never try this orchid cuz I'm cowardly about
houseplants & I want everything to fit in the yard so that Nature helps me
out & plants aren't completely reliant on me alone. When I was researching
terrestrial orchids, I reluctantly decided I would probably fail with any
orchid except pleine & bletilla, because they are the ones best apt to
naturalize outdoors & end up taking care of themselves (pecteilis might do
so if one is willing to cover them with a waterproof tent in winter). If I
may judge it correctly from its photograph, the one you've just gotten has
got to be one of the most charming orchids of all, so intensely bird-like.
Best of luck with it, & if you can report back with future success (or
tragic failure) I'd love to have your notes on it, maybe I'll even get
daring if you find it easier than I suspect.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

Thanks, Ted. I've killed a couple of cyps already. Hoping to have better
luck with the habenarias.

From: "Ted Byers"
Organization: Bell Sympatico
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.orchids,rec.gardens
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 07:44:43 -0400
Subject: Habenaria radiata


"paghat" wrote in message
news

Personally I would never try this orchid cuz I'm cowardly about
houseplants & I want everything to fit in the yard so that Nature helps me
out & plants aren't completely reliant on me alone. When I was researching
terrestrial orchids, I reluctantly decided I would probably fail with any
orchid except pleine & bletilla, because they are the ones best apt to
naturalize outdoors & end up taking care of themselves (pecteilis might do
so if one is willing to cover them with a waterproof tent in winter). If I

There are a number of other genera that should do well for you. You might
want to visit http://www.hardy-orchids.com, for some (DACTYLORHIZA,
Orchis,CALANTHE,Cymbidium and a variety of Bletilla and Pleione), and
http://www.thimblefarms.com/ for others, including especially cypripediums
(also Aplectrum,Anacamptus,Calanthe,Calopogon, Calypso, Cephalanthera,
Dactylorhiza, Eleorchis, Epipactis, Goodyera, Orchis, Platanthera,
Ponerorchis, Spiranthes plus a number of intergenerics and a huge variety of
Bletilla and Pleione). Fraser Thimble farms has a much wider selection than
Red's Hardy Orchids, but there may be a tradeoff WRT shipping across the
border and the exchange rate.

Maybe visiting these web sites will encourage you to be adventurous and try
some other terrestrials also. Some of these hardy orchids are said to be
challenging, but others, like the cypripediums, are supposed to be quite
easy. I know some folk who have rescued cypripedium bulbs from sites where
they were destined to be destroyed by construction activity, and just
transplanted clumps of bulbs, dirt and all, from the construction site to
their back yard and left them to do their thing. They eventually formed
rather large patches of plants, creating an impressive display when all are
in bloom. (I believe, but am not certain, that both vendors I mentioned
supply only nursery grown plants, so you need not worry about endangering
wild populations with irresponsible collecting.) But whether or not they'll
be easy will be a function of how well you can duplicate their native
environment as well as if you can find a suitable specimen. With
cypripediums, for example, the genus is quite adaptable, with species
inhabiting a range of environments from bogs to forest understory: a wild
collected plant from a bog or meadow is likely to die in an urban garden
(the latter is due to the fact that the meadow grasses provide much needed
dappled shade in the hottest part of the summer), while at the same time a
nursery grown specimen will have already been through artificial selection
for thriving in gardens simply by virtue of the fact that only from the
initial specimens, only those suitable for a garden would survive the
nursery's conditions.

HTH

Ted

Thanks, Bob. Jay's is my customary first web reference for species. Great
resource, ain't it? Just don't use it with IE. It loads much faster with
Netscape and Mac OS X's Safari.

From: "Bob Walsh"
Organization: AT&T Broadband
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.orchids,rec.gardens
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 03:46:11 GMT
Subject: Habenaria radiata

Mark,

A picture may be found at:
http://www.orchidspecies.com/indexfghijkl.htm#sec8

Culture information also but it doesn't compare to that posted by paghat the
ratgirl.

Bob


"Mark Prout" wrote in message
...
I have received six tubers of this terrestrial orchid native to Japan
where
it is known as the Egret Orchid. It is also known taxonomically as
pecteilis
radiata.

Do any of you have experience growing these? I've found only two
references
to culture on the web. One grower reported limited success growing in
sphagnum. Another site said part to full sun in well-drained, acidic soil
kept moist until after flowering is completed and the plants go dormant.
Any
other suggestions for success?

Except for Bletilla striata, I grow all my orchids in pots and in the
winter, indoors.

Mark Prout wrote in message ...
I have received six tubers of this terrestrial orchid native to Japan where
it is known as the Egret Orchid. It is also known taxonomically as pecteilis
radiata.

Do any of you have experience growing these?

Pecteilis radiata grows well for me in plastic pots with a mix of
peat, perlite, and silica sand. I bury the tuberoids about an inch
deep, top dress the pot with chopped pine needles, and keep it moist
at all times during the growing season. In early spring, they go
outside (North Carolina, USDA Zone 7) and remain outside until winter
temperature drop below 30F. Then, I allow the pot to dry until it is
barely moist and refrigerate the pots in ziplock bags for a couple of
months. I think I may have kept them too wet this winter and lost
quite a few. Some survived, though, and they multiply very fast

I fertilize occasionally with dilute orchid fertilizer during the
summer, and use water with low mineral content. During the summer,
the pot sits in a saucer with a few millimeters of water. Thrips will
destroy the buds, and squirrels will dig them up given half a chance.

Part sun should be fine. Mine get morning sun and are shaded by a big
sweet gum and some pines at noon.

I harvested some seed a couple of years ago and a friend flasked the
green capsule. Seed germinated well, and this spring I potted up the
first seedlings. A couple had made almost pea-sized tuberoids in the
flask.

Nick

In article , "Ted Byers"
wrote:

"paghat" wrote in message
news

Personally I would never try this orchid cuz I'm cowardly about
houseplants & I want everything to fit in the yard so that Nature helps me
out & plants aren't completely reliant on me alone. When I was researching
terrestrial orchids, I reluctantly decided I would probably fail with any
orchid except pleine & bletilla, because they are the ones best apt to
naturalize outdoors & end up taking care of themselves (pecteilis might do
so if one is willing to cover them with a waterproof tent in winter). If I

There are a number of other genera that should do well for you. You might
want to visit http://www.hardy-orchids.com, for some (DACTYLORHIZA,
Orchis,CALANTHE,Cymbidium and a variety of Bletilla and Pleione), and
http://www.thimblefarms.com/ for others, including especially cypripediums
(also Aplectrum,Anacamptus,Calanthe,Calopogon, Calypso, Cephalanthera,
Dactylorhiza, Eleorchis, Epipactis, Goodyera, Orchis, Platanthera,
Ponerorchis, Spiranthes plus a number of intergenerics and a huge variety of
Bletilla and Pleione). Fraser Thimble farms has a much wider selection than
Red's Hardy Orchids, but there may be a tradeoff WRT shipping across the
border and the exchange rate.

Maybe visiting these web sites will encourage you to be adventurous and try
some other terrestrials also. Some of these hardy orchids are said to be
challenging, but others, like the cypripediums, are supposed to be quite
easy. I know some folk who have rescued cypripedium bulbs from sites where
they were destined to be destroyed by construction activity, and just
transplanted clumps of bulbs, dirt and all, from the construction site to
their back yard and left them to do their thing. They eventually formed
rather large patches of plants, creating an impressive display when all are
in bloom. (I believe, but am not certain, that both vendors I mentioned
supply only nursery grown plants, so you need not worry about endangering
wild populations with irresponsible collecting.) But whether or not they'll
be easy will be a function of how well you can duplicate their native
environment as well as if you can find a suitable specimen. With
cypripediums, for example, the genus is quite adaptable, with species
inhabiting a range of environments from bogs to forest understory: a wild
collected plant from a bog or meadow is likely to die in an urban garden
(the latter is due to the fact that the meadow grasses provide much needed
dappled shade in the hottest part of the summer), while at the same time a
nursery grown specimen will have already been through artificial selection
for thriving in gardens simply by virtue of the fact that only from the
initial specimens, only those suitable for a garden would survive the
nursery's conditions.

HTH

Ted

This is encouraging, thanks. I'd gone through our local library's books on
orchids (surprisingly excellent horticultural book collection, thanks
greatly t o Heronswood donations) attending mainly the chapters on
terrestrials. The elaborate suggestions for care of even the Pleiones
made it sound so daunting. If I hadn't seen pleiones naturalized in a Gig
Harbor Rhododendron Society member's garden, I wouldn't've known from the
typical care instructions they can take care of themselves.

I had already ordered a yellow cyprideum which won't ship for a couple
months yet so it's still a plant in my future. For the vast majority of
lady slippers the way mild Puget Sound micro-climate is no good, as we can
have as few as two weeks cold enough to chill them properly, which isn't
long enough, & hardiness is not sufficient if there's hardly any winter
for them. The yellow lady slipper is supposed to be the most likely to
make it on its own in Northwest gardens, so I made the decision to give it
a try. But I've never seen them actually established in any local gardens
so it could turn out to be an expensive failure.

Terrestrial orchids are very nearly the only thing I've wanted in my
gardens that I've been reluctant to add, because zone 8 is just barely NOT
cold enough for their seasonal chill without having them in pots that can
be popped in a refrigerator. So all I've planned is to add additional
colors of the pleione since it can do well with so little attention, &
I'll hope for the best for the yellow lady slipper when it's in hand.
Terrestrials fascinate me no end & every new magazine article I stumble
upon I read lustfully but even the most effusive articles end up talking
me out of them. A case of "read too much getting prepared" & it ended up
scaring me off.

-paghat

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

Terrestrial orchids are very nearly the only thing I've wanted in my
gardens that I've been reluctant to add, because zone 8 is just barely NOT
cold enough for their seasonal chill without having them in pots that can
be popped in a refrigerator. So all I've planned is to add additional

Hmmm, And I thought zone 8 was almost tropical. ;-) But then, I am a
Canadian for whom -10 degrees Celcius (that would be about 14 degrees
Fahrenheit for 'merkins) and snowing is a mild spring day! ;-)

But seriously, Red's Hardy Orchids is in Oregon and Frazer Thimble Farms is
in BC. Unless my sense of the geography of your part of the world is
terribly distorted, you should be close enough to both to make a day trip or
a weekend trip to visit either, and pick their brains about what ought to do
well for you (assuming both have facilities open to the public, or at a
minimum can be visited by appointment). I have driven from Northern
Saskatchewan down to Colorado in less than a day, and I'd bet that is a much
longer distance than from Puget Sound to Oregon or from there to BC.

And I saw quite a number of species on both web sites that are of no
interest to me because they're "hardy" only to zones 7-9. But, really, does
the word "hardy" really apply to such tropical climes? ;-)

Cheers,

Ted