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What do you think?
I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and
have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? -- J.C. |
What do you think?
"J.C." wrote in message
m... I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? -- J.C. If your planting method is such a great idea, I wonder why nursery plants aren't grown in styrofoam. Hmmm? |
What do you think?
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "J.C." wrote in message m... I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? -- J.C. If your planting method is such a great idea, I wonder why nursery plants aren't grown in styrofoam. Hmmm? I didn't say it was a great idea. I simply asked what others thought. The arrogance or your responce, in my opinion, is uncalled for. -- J.C. |
What do you think?
"J.C." wrote in message
m... "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "J.C." wrote in message m... I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? -- J.C. If your planting method is such a great idea, I wonder why nursery plants aren't grown in styrofoam. Hmmm? I didn't say it was a great idea. I simply asked what others thought. The arrogance or your responce, in my opinion, is uncalled for. J.C. It's a lousy idea for reasons other than plant culture. Styrofoam is an obnoxious substance. There are so many better solutions, many of them reusable. I've had smooth plastic flower pots that I bought in bulk 20 years ago, a little larger than a cup of yogurt. When I'm ready to plant, the plants slip out of the pots easily, with no root damage. I get the same results with 6-packs, which I've been able to reuse for 5-10 years. |
What do you think?
On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:39:10 GMT, "J.C." wrote:
I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? I think those cups should be against the law and banished from the universe! You are much better off using something else. |
What do you think?
Well. Mr. J.C., if the dang cups aren't causing your wilt, BROWNING
leaves, low yield, bugs and disease then what the heck is causing those things? How can you grow a nine foot tall tomato plant in a coffee cup anyhow? You might as well keep your string bean plants on your window sill and your cucumbers on your doorstep in their little bitty cups. Why are you so insistant on keeping the plants in the cups anyhow? Sounds like your having a fight with your better half and youre carrying this business too far. . J.C. wrote: I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? -- J.C. |
What do you think?
"J.C." wrote in message m... I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? -- J.C. I think your wife is right, when you get them in the soil why not push down on the contents of the cup, pull up on its wall and take the foam away? David |
What do you think?
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message ... "J.C." wrote in message m... I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? -- J.C. I think your wife is right, when you get them in the soil why not push down on the contents of the cup, pull up on its wall and take the foam away? David Because in the book, "Square Foot Gardening" it calls for a "cup" of water at the base of each plant on a specific time frame. My purpose with the cups is that they allow me to put the right amount of water directly to the roots. It does NOT have to be foam, that's not my concern. I just happen to get a good price on a case of them at Sam's. Heck, forget the foam. If I was using plastic cups, or paper cups, or some other kind of cups, does anyone believe that cutting the bottom out of the cups and planting the whole cup causes any problems with the plant? -- J.C. |
What do you think?
"J.C." wrote in message
m... "David Hare-Scott" wrote in message ... "J.C." wrote in message m... I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? -- J.C. I think your wife is right, when you get them in the soil why not push down on the contents of the cup, pull up on its wall and take the foam away? David Because in the book, "Square Foot Gardening" it calls for a "cup" of water at the base of each plant on a specific time frame. My purpose with the cups is that they allow me to put the right amount of water directly to the roots. It does NOT have to be foam, that's not my concern. I just happen to get a good price on a case of them at Sam's. Heck, forget the foam. If I was using plastic cups, or paper cups, or some other kind of cups, does anyone believe that cutting the bottom out of the cups and planting the whole cup causes any problems with the plant? J.C. Yes. It will cause problems for the plants, especially those with wide, shallow roots. And, what is the "specific time frame" for watering? How many minutes, hours, days or whatever? |
What do you think?
I would guess that air circulation is a major problem.
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message ... "J.C." wrote in message m... "David Hare-Scott" wrote in message ... "J.C." wrote in message m... I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? -- J.C. I think your wife is right, when you get them in the soil why not push down on the contents of the cup, pull up on its wall and take the foam away? David Because in the book, "Square Foot Gardening" it calls for a "cup" of water at the base of each plant on a specific time frame. My purpose with the cups is that they allow me to put the right amount of water directly to the roots. It does NOT have to be foam, that's not my concern. I just happen to get a good price on a case of them at Sam's. Heck, forget the foam. If I was using plastic cups, or paper cups, or some other kind of cups, does anyone believe that cutting the bottom out of the cups and planting the whole cup causes any problems with the plant? J.C. Yes. It will cause problems for the plants, especially those with wide, shallow roots. And, what is the "specific time frame" for watering? How many minutes, hours, days or whatever? |
What do you think?
J.C. wrote:
I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? after reading everyone else's responses, I've come to the obvious solutions. Styrofoam however cheap is wrong only because you're leaving the cups around the young seedlings, and your thinking is probably as protection against cut worms, but in this case, everyone whose response is deffinate is dead on the money. Wilt is from lack of enough nutrients, browning leaves are fungal which the styrofoam doesn't allow the soil around the plants to breath, bugs attack distressed plants to eliminate them. Only the stronger plants survive. Distressed plants send out inaudible signals to the insects to "come and put me out of my misery I'm not well!" And low yields are from cramped roots. Had that happen myself with a trial growing of some plants from seeds that had the exact same problems as yours. So here's the simpler solution: Everyone has helped with alternatives. You could use cheap paper cups that will break down if planted. (no wax lined cup, it won't break down fast enough). Your best bet would be to watch for Lowes or Home Deprived to have sales on their seed starting stuff. The peat pots are great and with their over purchasing for Spring, you can pick up everything more than half price at the leg end of Spring. Or you can order bulk garden cheap starting seed stuff from Garden Supply. Park Seeds is a bit pricey but you'd have quality stuff. Same with Garden Supply. Or you could check out Gardens Alive! and price their seed starting stuff. Or Lee Valley Tools is another wonderful, reusable source for seed starting stuff. Don't let this set back discourage you. Are you burying the whole cup into the soil once you punch out the bottoms? If you are, that's a HUGE part of your problem. Another source would be a co-op or old fashioned hardware store that always has Spring seed stuff. I'm sure they'd have stuff still on the shelves. But the best bargain if you're frugal is to hit Lowes (I know about Lowes personally having worked there for a few years) or Depot when they're at the end of their season and want to get rid of the seed trays, six packs, 24 packs, expandable coins that expand when you soak them in water and plant (you can bury them in the ground and after I cut the sides a bit, the roots push past the little tiny peat pot and attain impressive sizes). Any pots you start that will break down in the soils for your square foot gardens will have to be buried completely. Even the peat pots. Because if you leave even a little bit sticking out of the ground, the moisture will wick out faster. I've done Square foot gardening for decades and it works wonderfully. (it's also called intensive gardening). And one inch of soil isn't enough for a 32 ounce cup! I'd go with alternatives. Cheap paper that WILL break down once buried and bottomed out will work. Once the seedlings are to size, you could cut slits into the sides to expedite faster break down and allow the roots to escape, the cup would protect against cut worms during the early growth periods. as for the convenience of pouring a "specific amount of water on each plant" being easier, consider the little micro climate you've made that caused all sorts of wonderful homes for fungus, molds, disease and bound up roots (low yields and unhealthy plants which draw bugs to off them quickly, Nature is amazing). Try these ideas and get back to us. Keep on Square foot gardening. I still do. I grow tomato's and radishes and all manner of things in containers on my deck only because I don't have enough ground on this steep slope and too many trees to clear to provide a spot for a square foot garden. I do have, however some self watering boxes a friend gave me and I have now a spot I can clear out that will provide me over 7 hours of direct sunlight and next spring I'll have for the first time a place for my veggie garden!! Woo hoo!! Good luck to you, keep us posted. madgardener up on the ridge, back in Fairy Holler, overlooking English Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7, Sunset zone still intensive gardening after almost 28 years.................... |
What do you think?
"madgardener" wrote in message
... J.C. wrote: I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? after reading everyone else's responses, I've come to the obvious solutions. If one of the needs is to measure how much water he supplies the plants, he could cut rings from 32 oz yogurt containers (like the way you make cutworm collars), and press them only slightly into the soil. They won't crumble into annoying little bits like styrofoam, and they're reusable. |
What do you think?
"madgardener" wrote in message ... J.C. wrote: I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? after reading everyone else's responses, I've come to the obvious solutions. Styrofoam however cheap is wrong only because you're leaving the cups around the young seedlings, and your thinking is probably as protection against cut worms, but in this case, everyone whose response is deffinate is dead on the money. Wilt is from lack of enough nutrients, browning leaves are fungal which the styrofoam doesn't allow the soil around the plants to breath, bugs attack distressed plants to eliminate them. Only the stronger plants survive. Distressed plants send out inaudible signals to the insects to "come and put me out of my misery I'm not well!" And low yields are from cramped roots. Had that happen myself with a trial growing of some plants from seeds that had the exact same problems as yours. So here's the simpler solution: Everyone has helped with alternatives. You could use cheap paper cups that will break down if planted. (no wax lined cup, it won't break down fast enough). Your best bet would be to watch for Lowes or Home Deprived to have sales on their seed starting stuff. The peat pots are great and with their over purchasing for Spring, you can pick up everything more than half price at the leg end of Spring. Or you can order bulk garden cheap starting seed stuff from Garden Supply. Park Seeds is a bit pricey but you'd have quality stuff. Same with Garden Supply. Or you could check out Gardens Alive! and price their seed starting stuff. Or Lee Valley Tools is another wonderful, reusable source for seed starting stuff. Don't let this set back discourage you. Are you burying the whole cup into the soil once you punch out the bottoms? If you are, that's a HUGE part of your problem. Another source would be a co-op or old fashioned hardware store that always has Spring seed stuff. I'm sure they'd have stuff still on the shelves. But the best bargain if you're frugal is to hit Lowes (I know about Lowes personally having worked there for a few years) or Depot when they're at the end of their season and want to get rid of the seed trays, six packs, 24 packs, expandable coins that expand when you soak them in water and plant (you can bury them in the ground and after I cut the sides a bit, the roots push past the little tiny peat pot and attain impressive sizes). Any pots you start that will break down in the soils for your square foot gardens will have to be buried completely. Even the peat pots. Because if you leave even a little bit sticking out of the ground, the moisture will wick out faster. I've done Square foot gardening for decades and it works wonderfully. (it's also called intensive gardening). And one inch of soil isn't enough for a 32 ounce cup! I'd go with alternatives. Cheap paper that WILL break down once buried and bottomed out will work. Once the seedlings are to size, you could cut slits into the sides to expedite faster break down and allow the roots to escape, the cup would protect against cut worms during the early growth periods. as for the convenience of pouring a "specific amount of water on each plant" being easier, consider the little micro climate you've made that caused all sorts of wonderful homes for fungus, molds, disease and bound up roots (low yields and unhealthy plants which draw bugs to off them quickly, Nature is amazing). Try these ideas and get back to us. Keep on Square foot gardening. I still do. I grow tomato's and radishes and all manner of things in containers on my deck only because I don't have enough ground on this steep slope and too many trees to clear to provide a spot for a square foot garden. I do have, however some self watering boxes a friend gave me and I have now a spot I can clear out that will provide me over 7 hours of direct sunlight and next spring I'll have for the first time a place for my veggie garden!! Woo hoo!! Good luck to you, keep us posted. madgardener up on the ridge, back in Fairy Holler, overlooking English Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7, Sunset zone still intensive gardening after almost 28 years.................... I'm not sure we are on the same page here. When I say Square Foot Gardening, I'm talking about this: http://www.squarefootgardening.com/ If you are familiar with this method, as portrayed in the book, you will recall that the method calls for making a "saucer" type impression in the square and putting the plant right in the middle of that. Then, you water each plant by pouring one cup of water into the impression either daily, every other day or weekly, as the particular type of plant spec calls for. Now, we are talking about some 100 boxes here. Having an employee going around with a bucket and a cup and making sure he gets everything watered properly is a waste of time and money in my opinion. So, I decided to experiment by using a 32 ounce cup, leaving enough of it empty so as to hold the alloted amount of water so the fellow could just go around with a wand and fill up the cups. We only tried this with 12 boxes and we had a few problems and my wife blamed everythiing on planting those dang cups. I know styrofoam is not biodegradable so I know it does no harm to anything in the box. I know that when we remove the plants to rejuvenate a box for future plantings the roots are NOT rootbound or anything. I'm pretty sure, as the boxes are filled with a plant medium mixture of 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 well composted cow manure and other organic material, and 1/3 spanghum peat moss, that there is ample aeration. So, what I am trying to determine is whether or not the cups are detrimental or have I just run into a run of fungus, disease or something. For my two cents, I'd just soon take the started plants out of whatever they are started in, and plant them directly into the square, but the problem with that is, unless I'm following the guys around, they inevitably overwater, washout or just plain wipe out a whole box. By the way, anywhere near Jefferson City? -- J.C. |
What do you think?
"J.C." wrote in message
m... "madgardener" wrote in message ... J.C. wrote: I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? after reading everyone else's responses, I've come to the obvious solutions. Styrofoam however cheap is wrong only because you're leaving the cups around the young seedlings, and your thinking is probably as protection against cut worms, but in this case, everyone whose response is deffinate is dead on the money. Wilt is from lack of enough nutrients, browning leaves are fungal which the styrofoam doesn't allow the soil around the plants to breath, bugs attack distressed plants to eliminate them. Only the stronger plants survive. Distressed plants send out inaudible signals to the insects to "come and put me out of my misery I'm not well!" And low yields are from cramped roots. Had that happen myself with a trial growing of some plants from seeds that had the exact same problems as yours. So here's the simpler solution: Everyone has helped with alternatives. You could use cheap paper cups that will break down if planted. (no wax lined cup, it won't break down fast enough). Your best bet would be to watch for Lowes or Home Deprived to have sales on their seed starting stuff. The peat pots are great and with their over purchasing for Spring, you can pick up everything more than half price at the leg end of Spring. Or you can order bulk garden cheap starting seed stuff from Garden Supply. Park Seeds is a bit pricey but you'd have quality stuff. Same with Garden Supply. Or you could check out Gardens Alive! and price their seed starting stuff. Or Lee Valley Tools is another wonderful, reusable source for seed starting stuff. Don't let this set back discourage you. Are you burying the whole cup into the soil once you punch out the bottoms? If you are, that's a HUGE part of your problem. Another source would be a co-op or old fashioned hardware store that always has Spring seed stuff. I'm sure they'd have stuff still on the shelves. But the best bargain if you're frugal is to hit Lowes (I know about Lowes personally having worked there for a few years) or Depot when they're at the end of their season and want to get rid of the seed trays, six packs, 24 packs, expandable coins that expand when you soak them in water and plant (you can bury them in the ground and after I cut the sides a bit, the roots push past the little tiny peat pot and attain impressive sizes). Any pots you start that will break down in the soils for your square foot gardens will have to be buried completely. Even the peat pots. Because if you leave even a little bit sticking out of the ground, the moisture will wick out faster. I've done Square foot gardening for decades and it works wonderfully. (it's also called intensive gardening). And one inch of soil isn't enough for a 32 ounce cup! I'd go with alternatives. Cheap paper that WILL break down once buried and bottomed out will work. Once the seedlings are to size, you could cut slits into the sides to expedite faster break down and allow the roots to escape, the cup would protect against cut worms during the early growth periods. as for the convenience of pouring a "specific amount of water on each plant" being easier, consider the little micro climate you've made that caused all sorts of wonderful homes for fungus, molds, disease and bound up roots (low yields and unhealthy plants which draw bugs to off them quickly, Nature is amazing). Try these ideas and get back to us. Keep on Square foot gardening. I still do. I grow tomato's and radishes and all manner of things in containers on my deck only because I don't have enough ground on this steep slope and too many trees to clear to provide a spot for a square foot garden. I do have, however some self watering boxes a friend gave me and I have now a spot I can clear out that will provide me over 7 hours of direct sunlight and next spring I'll have for the first time a place for my veggie garden!! Woo hoo!! Good luck to you, keep us posted. madgardener up on the ridge, back in Fairy Holler, overlooking English Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7, Sunset zone still intensive gardening after almost 28 years.................... I'm not sure we are on the same page here. When I say Square Foot Gardening, I'm talking about this: http://www.squarefootgardening.com/ If you are familiar with this method, as portrayed in the book, you will recall that the method calls for making a "saucer" type impression in the square and putting the plant right in the middle of that. Then, you water each plant by pouring one cup of water into the impression either daily, every other day or weekly, as the particular type of plant spec calls for. Now, we are talking about some 100 boxes here. Having an employee going around with a bucket and a cup and making sure he gets everything watered properly is a waste of time and money in my opinion. So, I decided to experiment by using a 32 ounce cup, leaving enough of it empty so as to hold the alloted amount of water so the fellow could just go around with a wand and fill up the cups. We only tried this with 12 boxes and we had a few problems and my wife blamed everythiing on planting those dang cups. I know styrofoam is not biodegradable so I know it does no harm to anything in the box. I know that when we remove the plants to rejuvenate a box for future plantings the roots are NOT rootbound or anything. I'm pretty sure, as the boxes are filled with a plant medium mixture of 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 well composted cow manure and other organic material, and 1/3 spanghum peat moss, that there is ample aeration. So, what I am trying to determine is whether or not the cups are detrimental or have I just run into a run of fungus, disease or something. For my two cents, I'd just soon take the started plants out of whatever they are started in, and plant them directly into the square, but the problem with that is, unless I'm following the guys around, they inevitably overwater, washout or just plain wipe out a whole box. By the way, anywhere near Jefferson City? J.C. Following WHAT guys around? Is this a garden for a restaurant or something? As far as washout, properly cultivated soil covered with mulch will not wash out, if you use good watering tools, like these: http://www.dramm.com/html/main.isx?sub=18 It sounds to me like you're making a very simple thing way too complicated. |
What do you think?
J.C. wrote:
"madgardener" wrote in message ... J.C. wrote: I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? after reading everyone else's responses, I've come to the obvious solutions. Styrofoam however cheap is wrong only because you're leaving the cups around the young seedlings, and your thinking is probably as protection against cut worms, but in this case, everyone whose response is deffinate is dead on the money. Wilt is from lack of enough nutrients, browning leaves are fungal which the styrofoam doesn't allow the soil around the plants to breath, bugs attack distressed plants to eliminate them. Only the stronger plants survive. Distressed plants send out inaudible signals to the insects to "come and put me out of my misery I'm not well!" And low yields are from cramped roots. Had that happen myself with a trial growing of some plants from seeds that had the exact same problems as yours. So here's the simpler solution: Everyone has helped with alternatives. You could use cheap paper cups that will break down if planted. (no wax lined cup, it won't break down fast enough). Your best bet would be to watch for Lowes or Home Deprived to have sales on their seed starting stuff. The peat pots are great and with their over purchasing for Spring, you can pick up everything more than half price at the leg end of Spring. Or you can order bulk garden cheap starting seed stuff from Garden Supply. Park Seeds is a bit pricey but you'd have quality stuff. Same with Garden Supply. Or you could check out Gardens Alive! and price their seed starting stuff. Or Lee Valley Tools is another wonderful, reusable source for seed starting stuff. Don't let this set back discourage you. Are you burying the whole cup into the soil once you punch out the bottoms? If you are, that's a HUGE part of your problem. Another source would be a co-op or old fashioned hardware store that always has Spring seed stuff. I'm sure they'd have stuff still on the shelves. But the best bargain if you're frugal is to hit Lowes (I know about Lowes personally having worked there for a few years) or Depot when they're at the end of their season and want to get rid of the seed trays, six packs, 24 packs, expandable coins that expand when you soak them in water and plant (you can bury them in the ground and after I cut the sides a bit, the roots push past the little tiny peat pot and attain impressive sizes). Any pots you start that will break down in the soils for your square foot gardens will have to be buried completely. Even the peat pots. Because if you leave even a little bit sticking out of the ground, the moisture will wick out faster. I've done Square foot gardening for decades and it works wonderfully. (it's also called intensive gardening). And one inch of soil isn't enough for a 32 ounce cup! I'd go with alternatives. Cheap paper that WILL break down once buried and bottomed out will work. Once the seedlings are to size, you could cut slits into the sides to expedite faster break down and allow the roots to escape, the cup would protect against cut worms during the early growth periods. as for the convenience of pouring a "specific amount of water on each plant" being easier, consider the little micro climate you've made that caused all sorts of wonderful homes for fungus, molds, disease and bound up roots (low yields and unhealthy plants which draw bugs to off them quickly, Nature is amazing). Try these ideas and get back to us. Keep on Square foot gardening. I still do. I grow tomato's and radishes and all manner of things in containers on my deck only because I don't have enough ground on this steep slope and too many trees to clear to provide a spot for a square foot garden. I do have, however some self watering boxes a friend gave me and I have now a spot I can clear out that will provide me over 7 hours of direct sunlight and next spring I'll have for the first time a place for my veggie garden!! Woo hoo!! Good luck to you, keep us posted. madgardener up on the ridge, back in Fairy Holler, overlooking English Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7, Sunset zone still intensive gardening after almost 28 years.................... I'm not sure we are on the same page here. When I say Square Foot Gardening, I'm talking about this: http://www.squarefootgardening.com/ If you are familiar with this method, as portrayed in the book, you will recall that the method calls for making a "saucer" type impression in the square and putting the plant right in the middle of that. Then, you water each plant by pouring one cup of water into the impression either daily, every other day or weekly, as the particular type of plant spec calls for. Now, we are talking about some 100 boxes here. Having an employee going around with a bucket and a cup and making sure he gets everything watered properly is a waste of time and money in my opinion. So, I decided to experiment by using a 32 ounce cup, leaving enough of it empty so as to hold the alloted amount of water so the fellow could just go around with a wand and fill up the cups. We only tried this with 12 boxes and we had a few problems and my wife blamed everythiing on planting those dang cups. I know styrofoam is not biodegradable so I know it does no harm to anything in the box. I know that when we remove the plants to rejuvenate a box for future plantings the roots are NOT rootbound or anything. I'm pretty sure, as the boxes are filled with a plant medium mixture of 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 well composted cow manure and other organic material, and 1/3 spanghum peat moss, that there is ample aeration. So, what I am trying to determine is whether or not the cups are detrimental or have I just run into a run of fungus, disease or something. For my two cents, I'd just soon take the started plants out of whatever they are started in, and plant them directly into the square, but the problem with that is, unless I'm following the guys around, they inevitably overwater, washout or just plain wipe out a whole box. By the way, anywhere near Jefferson City? Fire those guys and put in some drip irrigation calibrated to water how you desire. Carl -- to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net) |
What do you think?
"Carl 1 Lucky Texan" wrote in message m... J.C. wrote: "madgardener" wrote in message ... J.C. wrote: I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? after reading everyone else's responses, I've come to the obvious solutions. Styrofoam however cheap is wrong only because you're leaving the cups around the young seedlings, and your thinking is probably as protection against cut worms, but in this case, everyone whose response is deffinate is dead on the money. Wilt is from lack of enough nutrients, browning leaves are fungal which the styrofoam doesn't allow the soil around the plants to breath, bugs attack distressed plants to eliminate them. Only the stronger plants survive. Distressed plants send out inaudible signals to the insects to "come and put me out of my misery I'm not well!" And low yields are from cramped roots. Had that happen myself with a trial growing of some plants from seeds that had the exact same problems as yours. So here's the simpler solution: Everyone has helped with alternatives. You could use cheap paper cups that will break down if planted. (no wax lined cup, it won't break down fast enough). Your best bet would be to watch for Lowes or Home Deprived to have sales on their seed starting stuff. The peat pots are great and with their over purchasing for Spring, you can pick up everything more than half price at the leg end of Spring. Or you can order bulk garden cheap starting seed stuff from Garden Supply. Park Seeds is a bit pricey but you'd have quality stuff. Same with Garden Supply. Or you could check out Gardens Alive! and price their seed starting stuff. Or Lee Valley Tools is another wonderful, reusable source for seed starting stuff. Don't let this set back discourage you. Are you burying the whole cup into the soil once you punch out the bottoms? If you are, that's a HUGE part of your problem. Another source would be a co-op or old fashioned hardware store that always has Spring seed stuff. I'm sure they'd have stuff still on the shelves. But the best bargain if you're frugal is to hit Lowes (I know about Lowes personally having worked there for a few years) or Depot when they're at the end of their season and want to get rid of the seed trays, six packs, 24 packs, expandable coins that expand when you soak them in water and plant (you can bury them in the ground and after I cut the sides a bit, the roots push past the little tiny peat pot and attain impressive sizes). Any pots you start that will break down in the soils for your square foot gardens will have to be buried completely. Even the peat pots. Because if you leave even a little bit sticking out of the ground, the moisture will wick out faster. I've done Square foot gardening for decades and it works wonderfully. (it's also called intensive gardening). And one inch of soil isn't enough for a 32 ounce cup! I'd go with alternatives. Cheap paper that WILL break down once buried and bottomed out will work. Once the seedlings are to size, you could cut slits into the sides to expedite faster break down and allow the roots to escape, the cup would protect against cut worms during the early growth periods. as for the convenience of pouring a "specific amount of water on each plant" being easier, consider the little micro climate you've made that caused all sorts of wonderful homes for fungus, molds, disease and bound up roots (low yields and unhealthy plants which draw bugs to off them quickly, Nature is amazing). Try these ideas and get back to us. Keep on Square foot gardening. I still do. I grow tomato's and radishes and all manner of things in containers on my deck only because I don't have enough ground on this steep slope and too many trees to clear to provide a spot for a square foot garden. I do have, however some self watering boxes a friend gave me and I have now a spot I can clear out that will provide me over 7 hours of direct sunlight and next spring I'll have for the first time a place for my veggie garden!! Woo hoo!! Good luck to you, keep us posted. madgardener up on the ridge, back in Fairy Holler, overlooking English Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7, Sunset zone still intensive gardening after almost 28 years.................... I'm not sure we are on the same page here. When I say Square Foot Gardening, I'm talking about this: http://www.squarefootgardening.com/ If you are familiar with this method, as portrayed in the book, you will recall that the method calls for making a "saucer" type impression in the square and putting the plant right in the middle of that. Then, you water each plant by pouring one cup of water into the impression either daily, every other day or weekly, as the particular type of plant spec calls for. Now, we are talking about some 100 boxes here. Having an employee going around with a bucket and a cup and making sure he gets everything watered properly is a waste of time and money in my opinion. So, I decided to experiment by using a 32 ounce cup, leaving enough of it empty so as to hold the alloted amount of water so the fellow could just go around with a wand and fill up the cups. We only tried this with 12 boxes and we had a few problems and my wife blamed everythiing on planting those dang cups. I know styrofoam is not biodegradable so I know it does no harm to anything in the box. I know that when we remove the plants to rejuvenate a box for future plantings the roots are NOT rootbound or anything. I'm pretty sure, as the boxes are filled with a plant medium mixture of 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 well composted cow manure and other organic material, and 1/3 spanghum peat moss, that there is ample aeration. So, what I am trying to determine is whether or not the cups are detrimental or have I just run into a run of fungus, disease or something. For my two cents, I'd just soon take the started plants out of whatever they are started in, and plant them directly into the square, but the problem with that is, unless I'm following the guys around, they inevitably overwater, washout or just plain wipe out a whole box. By the way, anywhere near Jefferson City? Fire those guys and put in some drip irrigation calibrated to water how you desire. Carl Ahhh, you've never lived under the watchful eye of a south Texas rice belt water district, have you? -- J.C. |
What do you think?
"J.C." wrote in message m... "madgardener" wrote in message ... J.C. wrote: I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? after reading everyone else's responses, I've come to the obvious solutions. Styrofoam however cheap is wrong only because you're leaving the cups around the young seedlings, and your thinking is probably as protection against cut worms, but in this case, everyone whose response is deffinate is dead on the money. Wilt is from lack of enough nutrients, browning leaves are fungal which the styrofoam doesn't allow the soil around the plants to breath, bugs attack distressed plants to eliminate them. Only the stronger plants survive. Distressed plants send out inaudible signals to the insects to "come and put me out of my misery I'm not well!" And low yields are from cramped roots. Had that happen myself with a trial growing of some plants from seeds that had the exact same problems as yours. So here's the simpler solution: Everyone has helped with alternatives. You could use cheap paper cups that will break down if planted. (no wax lined cup, it won't break down fast enough). Your best bet would be to watch for Lowes or Home Deprived to have sales on their seed starting stuff. The peat pots are great and with their over purchasing for Spring, you can pick up everything more than half price at the leg end of Spring. Or you can order bulk garden cheap starting seed stuff from Garden Supply. Park Seeds is a bit pricey but you'd have quality stuff. Same with Garden Supply. Or you could check out Gardens Alive! and price their seed starting stuff. Or Lee Valley Tools is another wonderful, reusable source for seed starting stuff. Don't let this set back discourage you. Are you burying the whole cup into the soil once you punch out the bottoms? If you are, that's a HUGE part of your problem. Another source would be a co-op or old fashioned hardware store that always has Spring seed stuff. I'm sure they'd have stuff still on the shelves. But the best bargain if you're frugal is to hit Lowes (I know about Lowes personally having worked there for a few years) or Depot when they're at the end of their season and want to get rid of the seed trays, six packs, 24 packs, expandable coins that expand when you soak them in water and plant (you can bury them in the ground and after I cut the sides a bit, the roots push past the little tiny peat pot and attain impressive sizes). Any pots you start that will break down in the soils for your square foot gardens will have to be buried completely. Even the peat pots. Because if you leave even a little bit sticking out of the ground, the moisture will wick out faster. I've done Square foot gardening for decades and it works wonderfully. (it's also called intensive gardening). And one inch of soil isn't enough for a 32 ounce cup! I'd go with alternatives. Cheap paper that WILL break down once buried and bottomed out will work. Once the seedlings are to size, you could cut slits into the sides to expedite faster break down and allow the roots to escape, the cup would protect against cut worms during the early growth periods. as for the convenience of pouring a "specific amount of water on each plant" being easier, consider the little micro climate you've made that caused all sorts of wonderful homes for fungus, molds, disease and bound up roots (low yields and unhealthy plants which draw bugs to off them quickly, Nature is amazing). Try these ideas and get back to us. Keep on Square foot gardening. I still do. I grow tomato's and radishes and all manner of things in containers on my deck only because I don't have enough ground on this steep slope and too many trees to clear to provide a spot for a square foot garden. I do have, however some self watering boxes a friend gave me and I have now a spot I can clear out that will provide me over 7 hours of direct sunlight and next spring I'll have for the first time a place for my veggie garden!! Woo hoo!! Good luck to you, keep us posted. madgardener up on the ridge, back in Fairy Holler, overlooking English Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7, Sunset zone still intensive gardening after almost 28 years.................... I'm not sure we are on the same page here. When I say Square Foot Gardening, I'm talking about this: http://www.squarefootgardening.com/ If you are familiar with this method, as portrayed in the book, you will recall that the method calls for making a "saucer" type impression in the square and putting the plant right in the middle of that. Then, you water each plant by pouring one cup of water into the impression either daily, every other day or weekly, as the particular type of plant spec calls for. Now, we are talking about some 100 boxes here. Having an employee going around with a bucket and a cup and making sure he gets everything watered properly is a waste of time and money in my opinion. So, I decided to experiment by using a 32 ounce cup, leaving enough of it empty so as to hold the alloted amount of water so the fellow could just go around with a wand and fill up the cups. We only tried this with 12 boxes and we had a few problems and my wife blamed everythiing on planting those dang cups. I know styrofoam is not biodegradable so I know it does no harm to anything in the box. I know that when we remove the plants to rejuvenate a box for future plantings the roots are NOT rootbound or anything. I'm pretty sure, as the boxes are filled with a plant medium mixture of 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 well composted cow manure and other organic material, and 1/3 spanghum peat moss, that there is ample aeration. So, what I am trying to determine is whether or not the cups are detrimental or have I just run into a run of fungus, disease or something. For my two cents, I'd just soon take the started plants out of whatever they are started in, and plant them directly into the square, but the problem with that is, unless I'm following the guys around, they inevitably overwater, washout or just plain wipe out a whole box. By the way, anywhere near Jefferson City? -- J.C. Okay, since you seem loyal to your method, how's about conducting an experiment next summer? Put half your plants out in the sort of plastic cups you want to use, and put half out in peat pots. (Or one third in plastic, one third in peat, one third without a cup of any sort.) Don't clump each type together, in case there are variations in different areas of the soil. Then compare the results and report back to the News Group. helco |
What do you think?
"helco" wrote in message
... Okay, since you seem loyal to your method, how's about conducting an experiment next summer? Put half your plants out in the sort of plastic cups you want to use, and put half out in peat pots. (Or one third in plastic, one third in peat, one third without a cup of any sort.) Don't clump each type together, in case there are variations in different areas of the soil. Then compare the results and report back to the News Group. helco Learning by experience? Are you insane? The web is the new god. Thou shalt drool. |
What do you think?
J.C. wrote:
"Carl 1 Lucky Texan" wrote in message m... J.C. wrote: "madgardener" wrote in message ... J.C. wrote: I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? after reading everyone else's responses, I've come to the obvious solutions. Styrofoam however cheap is wrong only because you're leaving the cups around the young seedlings, and your thinking is probably as protection against cut worms, but in this case, everyone whose response is deffinate is dead on the money. Wilt is from lack of enough nutrients, browning leaves are fungal which the styrofoam doesn't allow the soil around the plants to breath, bugs attack distressed plants to eliminate them. Only the stronger plants survive. Distressed plants send out inaudible signals to the insects to "come and put me out of my misery I'm not well!" And low yields are from cramped roots. Had that happen myself with a trial growing of some plants from seeds that had the exact same problems as yours. So here's the simpler solution: Everyone has helped with alternatives. You could use cheap paper cups that will break down if planted. (no wax lined cup, it won't break down fast enough). Your best bet would be to watch for Lowes or Home Deprived to have sales on their seed starting stuff. The peat pots are great and with their over purchasing for Spring, you can pick up everything more than half price at the leg end of Spring. Or you can order bulk garden cheap starting seed stuff from Garden Supply. Park Seeds is a bit pricey but you'd have quality stuff. Same with Garden Supply. Or you could check out Gardens Alive! and price their seed starting stuff. Or Lee Valley Tools is another wonderful, reusable source for seed starting stuff. Don't let this set back discourage you. Are you burying the whole cup into the soil once you punch out the bottoms? If you are, that's a HUGE part of your problem. Another source would be a co-op or old fashioned hardware store that always has Spring seed stuff. I'm sure they'd have stuff still on the shelves. But the best bargain if you're frugal is to hit Lowes (I know about Lowes personally having worked there for a few years) or Depot when they're at the end of their season and want to get rid of the seed trays, six packs, 24 packs, expandable coins that expand when you soak them in water and plant (you can bury them in the ground and after I cut the sides a bit, the roots push past the little tiny peat pot and attain impressive sizes). Any pots you start that will break down in the soils for your square foot gardens will have to be buried completely. Even the peat pots. Because if you leave even a little bit sticking out of the ground, the moisture will wick out faster. I've done Square foot gardening for decades and it works wonderfully. (it's also called intensive gardening). And one inch of soil isn't enough for a 32 ounce cup! I'd go with alternatives. Cheap paper that WILL break down once buried and bottomed out will work. Once the seedlings are to size, you could cut slits into the sides to expedite faster break down and allow the roots to escape, the cup would protect against cut worms during the early growth periods. as for the convenience of pouring a "specific amount of water on each plant" being easier, consider the little micro climate you've made that caused all sorts of wonderful homes for fungus, molds, disease and bound up roots (low yields and unhealthy plants which draw bugs to off them quickly, Nature is amazing). Try these ideas and get back to us. Keep on Square foot gardening. I still do. I grow tomato's and radishes and all manner of things in containers on my deck only because I don't have enough ground on this steep slope and too many trees to clear to provide a spot for a square foot garden. I do have, however some self watering boxes a friend gave me and I have now a spot I can clear out that will provide me over 7 hours of direct sunlight and next spring I'll have for the first time a place for my veggie garden!! Woo hoo!! Good luck to you, keep us posted. madgardener up on the ridge, back in Fairy Holler, overlooking English Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7, Sunset zone still intensive gardening after almost 28 years.................... I'm not sure we are on the same page here. When I say Square Foot Gardening, I'm talking about this: http://www.squarefootgardening.com/ If you are familiar with this method, as portrayed in the book, you will recall that the method calls for making a "saucer" type impression in the square and putting the plant right in the middle of that. Then, you water each plant by pouring one cup of water into the impression either daily, every other day or weekly, as the particular type of plant spec calls for. Now, we are talking about some 100 boxes here. Having an employee going around with a bucket and a cup and making sure he gets everything watered properly is a waste of time and money in my opinion. So, I decided to experiment by using a 32 ounce cup, leaving enough of it empty so as to hold the alloted amount of water so the fellow could just go around with a wand and fill up the cups. We only tried this with 12 boxes and we had a few problems and my wife blamed everythiing on planting those dang cups. I know styrofoam is not biodegradable so I know it does no harm to anything in the box. I know that when we remove the plants to rejuvenate a box for future plantings the roots are NOT rootbound or anything. I'm pretty sure, as the boxes are filled with a plant medium mixture of 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 well composted cow manure and other organic material, and 1/3 spanghum peat moss, that there is ample aeration. So, what I am trying to determine is whether or not the cups are detrimental or have I just run into a run of fungus, disease or something. For my two cents, I'd just soon take the started plants out of whatever they are started in, and plant them directly into the square, but the problem with that is, unless I'm following the guys around, they inevitably overwater, washout or just plain wipe out a whole box. By the way, anywhere near Jefferson City? Fire those guys and put in some drip irrigation calibrated to water how you desire. Carl Ahhh, you've never lived under the watchful eye of a south Texas rice belt water district, have you? DANG! Carl (watering by hand only 10am-6pm, as far as anyone can tell...) -- to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net) |
What do you think?
"J.C." wrote in message m... "Carl 1 Lucky Texan" wrote in message m... J.C. wrote: "madgardener" wrote in message ... J.C. wrote: I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? after reading everyone else's responses, I've come to the obvious solutions. Styrofoam however cheap is wrong only because you're leaving the cups around the young seedlings, and your thinking is probably as protection against cut worms, but in this case, everyone whose response is deffinate is dead on the money. Wilt is from lack of enough nutrients, browning leaves are fungal which the styrofoam doesn't allow the soil around the plants to breath, bugs attack distressed plants to eliminate them. Only the stronger plants survive. Distressed plants send out inaudible signals to the insects to "come and put me out of my misery I'm not well!" And low yields are from cramped roots. Had that happen myself with a trial growing of some plants from seeds that had the exact same problems as yours. So here's the simpler solution: Everyone has helped with alternatives. You could use cheap paper cups that will break down if planted. (no wax lined cup, it won't break down fast enough). Your best bet would be to watch for Lowes or Home Deprived to have sales on their seed starting stuff. The peat pots are great and with their over purchasing for Spring, you can pick up everything more than half price at the leg end of Spring. Or you can order bulk garden cheap starting seed stuff from Garden Supply. Park Seeds is a bit pricey but you'd have quality stuff. Same with Garden Supply. Or you could check out Gardens Alive! and price their seed starting stuff. Or Lee Valley Tools is another wonderful, reusable source for seed starting stuff. Don't let this set back discourage you. Are you burying the whole cup into the soil once you punch out the bottoms? If you are, that's a HUGE part of your problem. Another source would be a co-op or old fashioned hardware store that always has Spring seed stuff. I'm sure they'd have stuff still on the shelves. But the best bargain if you're frugal is to hit Lowes (I know about Lowes personally having worked there for a few years) or Depot when they're at the end of their season and want to get rid of the seed trays, six packs, 24 packs, expandable coins that expand when you soak them in water and plant (you can bury them in the ground and after I cut the sides a bit, the roots push past the little tiny peat pot and attain impressive sizes). Any pots you start that will break down in the soils for your square foot gardens will have to be buried completely. Even the peat pots. Because if you leave even a little bit sticking out of the ground, the moisture will wick out faster. I've done Square foot gardening for decades and it works wonderfully. (it's also called intensive gardening). And one inch of soil isn't enough for a 32 ounce cup! I'd go with alternatives. Cheap paper that WILL break down once buried and bottomed out will work. Once the seedlings are to size, you could cut slits into the sides to expedite faster break down and allow the roots to escape, the cup would protect against cut worms during the early growth periods. as for the convenience of pouring a "specific amount of water on each plant" being easier, consider the little micro climate you've made that caused all sorts of wonderful homes for fungus, molds, disease and bound up roots (low yields and unhealthy plants which draw bugs to off them quickly, Nature is amazing). Try these ideas and get back to us. Keep on Square foot gardening. I still do. I grow tomato's and radishes and all manner of things in containers on my deck only because I don't have enough ground on this steep slope and too many trees to clear to provide a spot for a square foot garden. I do have, however some self watering boxes a friend gave me and I have now a spot I can clear out that will provide me over 7 hours of direct sunlight and next spring I'll have for the first time a place for my veggie garden!! Woo hoo!! Good luck to you, keep us posted. madgardener up on the ridge, back in Fairy Holler, overlooking English Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7, Sunset zone still intensive gardening after almost 28 years.................... I'm not sure we are on the same page here. When I say Square Foot Gardening, I'm talking about this: http://www.squarefootgardening.com/ If you are familiar with this method, as portrayed in the book, you will recall that the method calls for making a "saucer" type impression in the square and putting the plant right in the middle of that. Then, you water each plant by pouring one cup of water into the impression either daily, every other day or weekly, as the particular type of plant spec calls for. Now, we are talking about some 100 boxes here. Having an employee going around with a bucket and a cup and making sure he gets everything watered properly is a waste of time and money in my opinion. So, I decided to experiment by using a 32 ounce cup, leaving enough of it empty so as to hold the alloted amount of water so the fellow could just go around with a wand and fill up the cups. We only tried this with 12 boxes and we had a few problems and my wife blamed everythiing on planting those dang cups. I know styrofoam is not biodegradable so I know it does no harm to anything in the box. I know that when we remove the plants to rejuvenate a box for future plantings the roots are NOT rootbound or anything. I'm pretty sure, as the boxes are filled with a plant medium mixture of 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 well composted cow manure and other organic material, and 1/3 spanghum peat moss, that there is ample aeration. So, what I am trying to determine is whether or not the cups are detrimental or have I just run into a run of fungus, disease or something. For my two cents, I'd just soon take the started plants out of whatever they are started in, and plant them directly into the square, but the problem with that is, unless I'm following the guys around, they inevitably overwater, washout or just plain wipe out a whole box. By the way, anywhere near Jefferson City? Fire those guys and put in some drip irrigation calibrated to water how you desire. Carl Ahhh, you've never lived under the watchful eye of a south Texas rice belt water district, have you? You still haven't explained who the people are who're doing the watering, and why you haven't mulched to minimize runoff. Are these employees? |
What do you think?
I'm not sure we are on the same page here. When I say Square Foot Gardening, I'm talking about this: http://www.squarefootgardening.com/ yep, I've had that book now for well over a decade or more. Mel was the one who got me started. They touted his ways of intensive gardening in Rodale's Organic Gardening magazine years ago when it was worthy of reading and learning. If you are familiar with this method, as portrayed in the book, you will recall that the method calls for making a "saucer" type impression in the square and putting the plant right in the middle of that. Then, you water each plant by pouring one cup of water into the impression either daily, every other day or weekly, as the particular type of plant spec calls for. well, I remember the depression, but as for a cup of water daily, every other day or weekly, I've learned thru the decades that raised beds tend to warm up earlier and start the season sooner than in the ground, but they also drain faster and dry out quicker. So that cupa water isn't gonna help when we don't get rain on a semi regular basis. ALL my perennial gardens are raised beds and containers. During that dry spell we had back in June, I had to water everything at least every evening, and the next day I could plunge my hand into the soil and nothing would stick. It took that wet period to soak the soils adequately enough to pull the plants out of stress. You have to use rule of personal thumb on what books tell you. I have a fig tree that is happier than pigs in slop, and it hasn't read the book that says they aren't hardy to this growing zone. Micro climates. And raised square foot gardening are little individual micro climates sometimes. Now, we are talking about some 100 boxes here. Having an employee going around with a bucket and a cup and making sure he gets everything watered properly is a waste of time and money in my opinion. So, I decided to experiment by using a 32 ounce cup, leaving enough of it empty so as to hold the alloted amount of water so the fellow could just go around with a wand and fill up the cups. We only tried this with 12 boxes and we had a few problems and my wife blamed everythiing on planting those dang cups. well, maybe not understanding it was easy to point the blame. I will say that styrofoam isn't the best thing for cups. And yes, having an employee going around with a bucket and a cup IS a waste of time. You'd do better to invest in a soaker hose (Lowes has the rolls of 50 foot flat ones for cheap, and last year I lucked out and got 25 foot rolls of them for 75% off! ) I know styrofoam is not biodegradable so I know it does no harm to anything in the box. I know that when we remove the plants to rejuvenate a box for future plantings the roots are NOT rootbound or anything. I'm pretty sure, as the boxes are filled with a plant medium mixture of 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 well composted cow manure and other organic material, and 1/3 sphagnum peat moss, that there is ample aeration. So, what I am trying to determine is whether or not the cups are detrimental or have I just run into a run of fungus, disease or something. Try this mixture instead.....instead of the sphagnum peat moss, which tends to dry out quicker, grab up the neighbor's leaves off the curbs and run your lawn mower over the piles until shredded and work that into your beds. The leaves will break down into a perfect 6.5 Ph and the plants will have humus. You could also gather lawn clippings and mix those with the ground leaves. I've invested in a shredded and am shredding up all the junk mail and catalogs from the 4000 plant companies and nurseries (almost 99% of them have gone over to soy based inks anyway, so the paper and inks are safe) and put the shredded paper into my compost pile with my kitchen gunk. Once fall comes, I'll be stealing bags of leaves from these mushroom subdivisions that are springing up across 25-70 and take them off their hands. I don't care if there's weed seeds or whatever in them (these are subdivisions built on former pastures) because I also cow pie pick my neighbor's pasture next to me for that moo gold............. For my two cents, I'd just soon take the started plants out of whatever they are started in, and plant them directly into the square, but the problem with that is, unless I'm following the guys around, they inevitably overwater, washout or just plain wipe out a whole box. hmmmmmmmm, sounds like a little mulch would save you some time on the over watering situation. An investment of a few bags of cypress mulch would keep the moisture levels at a more even keel, and if you don't want to go cypress, the cheaper stuff would work and break down into more soil and humus! As for the washing out problem, the mulch might help that. I still think a minor investment of a few soaker hoses would help tremendously. I'm seriously thinking of getting a few and running some multiple connections from my well head into the assorted boxes. The only problem is that my boxes are all over the place all Helter Skelter.........the only ones that would benefit from soakers would be the long front of the house raised garden (the first one I put in), the fig bed, and I suspect the fig has already learned about the well....the box just across from the fig bed, the Vitex garden next to THAT, and maybe if I could interconnect and run a long one to the raised "tomato" boxes that Squire built me that now have perennials......the trees listened to my wailings of no trees and now I have to do some judicious pruning and whacking to open up the west fence line again.....sigh........... By the way, anywhere near Jefferson City? 14 miles. I live in Dandridge just offa Valley Home Road, turn on Zirkle, go past that scary new subdivision that is built along I-40 where it crosses over Zirkle, turn left onto Wine and once you inhale at the view of English Mountain and the rolling hills below you and take the curve, shoot up the road directly in front of you instead of taking the last curve going towards 25-70 and go up that dead end. Inhale again and enjoy Miz Mary Wine's view of English Mountain that I borrow every day, hook the left driveway and take the gentle curve past the boulder sticking out towards the drive and go thru the iron gates past the crape myrtles (white and watermelon) and all those flowers and perennials obscuring the house almost past the gutters on the left is the ol' madgardener's and yer in Fairy Holler proper! fire a warning shot before you come and I'll make sure there's sweet iced tea chilling in the fridge..............maybe you'll see something you want a piece of.... maddie |
What do you think?
Ahhh, you've never lived under the watchful eye of a south Texas rice belt water district, have you? by the way, J.C. when you respond, it might keep the local residents on this neighborhood newsgroup from getting peeved at you posting the whole responses each time you answer......no offense or harranging, just delete or type snip and then pick up the answer where you want to. it will save some flaming that I feel the heat coming from somewhere's! LOL I know this from experience after 9 years and going strong on this NG, there are those out there who will kvetch about you posting the whole thing..LOL It don't bother me any, just trying to save your temper and irritation when the complaints come (hopefully the OCD's are asleep right now roflmao) maddie |
What do you think?
"helco" wrote in message ... "J.C." wrote in message m... "madgardener" wrote in message ... J.C. wrote: I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? after reading everyone else's responses, I've come to the obvious solutions. Styrofoam however cheap is wrong only because you're leaving the cups around the young seedlings, and your thinking is probably as protection against cut worms, but in this case, everyone whose response is deffinate is dead on the money. Wilt is from lack of enough nutrients, browning leaves are fungal which the styrofoam doesn't allow the soil around the plants to breath, bugs attack distressed plants to eliminate them. Only the stronger plants survive. Distressed plants send out inaudible signals to the insects to "come and put me out of my misery I'm not well!" And low yields are from cramped roots. Had that happen myself with a trial growing of some plants from seeds that had the exact same problems as yours. So here's the simpler solution: Everyone has helped with alternatives. You could use cheap paper cups that will break down if planted. (no wax lined cup, it won't break down fast enough). Your best bet would be to watch for Lowes or Home Deprived to have sales on their seed starting stuff. The peat pots are great and with their over purchasing for Spring, you can pick up everything more than half price at the leg end of Spring. Or you can order bulk garden cheap starting seed stuff from Garden Supply. Park Seeds is a bit pricey but you'd have quality stuff. Same with Garden Supply. Or you could check out Gardens Alive! and price their seed starting stuff. Or Lee Valley Tools is another wonderful, reusable source for seed starting stuff. Don't let this set back discourage you. Are you burying the whole cup into the soil once you punch out the bottoms? If you are, that's a HUGE part of your problem. Another source would be a co-op or old fashioned hardware store that always has Spring seed stuff. I'm sure they'd have stuff still on the shelves. But the best bargain if you're frugal is to hit Lowes (I know about Lowes personally having worked there for a few years) or Depot when they're at the end of their season and want to get rid of the seed trays, six packs, 24 packs, expandable coins that expand when you soak them in water and plant (you can bury them in the ground and after I cut the sides a bit, the roots push past the little tiny peat pot and attain impressive sizes). Any pots you start that will break down in the soils for your square foot gardens will have to be buried completely. Even the peat pots. Because if you leave even a little bit sticking out of the ground, the moisture will wick out faster. I've done Square foot gardening for decades and it works wonderfully. (it's also called intensive gardening). And one inch of soil isn't enough for a 32 ounce cup! I'd go with alternatives. Cheap paper that WILL break down once buried and bottomed out will work. Once the seedlings are to size, you could cut slits into the sides to expedite faster break down and allow the roots to escape, the cup would protect against cut worms during the early growth periods. as for the convenience of pouring a "specific amount of water on each plant" being easier, consider the little micro climate you've made that caused all sorts of wonderful homes for fungus, molds, disease and bound up roots (low yields and unhealthy plants which draw bugs to off them quickly, Nature is amazing). Try these ideas and get back to us. Keep on Square foot gardening. I still do. I grow tomato's and radishes and all manner of things in containers on my deck only because I don't have enough ground on this steep slope and too many trees to clear to provide a spot for a square foot garden. I do have, however some self watering boxes a friend gave me and I have now a spot I can clear out that will provide me over 7 hours of direct sunlight and next spring I'll have for the first time a place for my veggie garden!! Woo hoo!! Good luck to you, keep us posted. madgardener up on the ridge, back in Fairy Holler, overlooking English Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7, Sunset zone still intensive gardening after almost 28 years.................... I'm not sure we are on the same page here. When I say Square Foot Gardening, I'm talking about this: http://www.squarefootgardening.com/ If you are familiar with this method, as portrayed in the book, you will recall that the method calls for making a "saucer" type impression in the square and putting the plant right in the middle of that. Then, you water each plant by pouring one cup of water into the impression either daily, every other day or weekly, as the particular type of plant spec calls for. Now, we are talking about some 100 boxes here. Having an employee going around with a bucket and a cup and making sure he gets everything watered properly is a waste of time and money in my opinion. So, I decided to experiment by using a 32 ounce cup, leaving enough of it empty so as to hold the alloted amount of water so the fellow could just go around with a wand and fill up the cups. We only tried this with 12 boxes and we had a few problems and my wife blamed everythiing on planting those dang cups. I know styrofoam is not biodegradable so I know it does no harm to anything in the box. I know that when we remove the plants to rejuvenate a box for future plantings the roots are NOT rootbound or anything. I'm pretty sure, as the boxes are filled with a plant medium mixture of 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 well composted cow manure and other organic material, and 1/3 spanghum peat moss, that there is ample aeration. So, what I am trying to determine is whether or not the cups are detrimental or have I just run into a run of fungus, disease or something. For my two cents, I'd just soon take the started plants out of whatever they are started in, and plant them directly into the square, but the problem with that is, unless I'm following the guys around, they inevitably overwater, washout or just plain wipe out a whole box. By the way, anywhere near Jefferson City? -- J.C. Okay, since you seem loyal to your method, how's about conducting an experiment next summer? Put half your plants out in the sort of plastic cups you want to use, and put half out in peat pots. (Or one third in plastic, one third in peat, one third without a cup of any sort.) Don't clump each type together, in case there are variations in different areas of the soil. Then compare the results and report back to the News Group. helco We did that this year. That's why I'm asking others what experiences they have? -- J.C. |
What do you think?
"madgardener" wrote in message ... I'm not sure we are on the same page here. When I say Square Foot Gardening, I'm talking about this: http://www.squarefootgardening.com/ yep, I've had that book now for well over a decade or more. Mel was the one who got me started. They touted his ways of intensive gardening in Rodale's Organic Gardening magazine years ago when it was worthy of reading and learning. If you are familiar with this method, as portrayed in the book, you will recall that the method calls for making a "saucer" type impression in the square and putting the plant right in the middle of that. Then, you water each plant by pouring one cup of water into the impression either daily, every other day or weekly, as the particular type of plant spec calls for. well, I remember the depression, but as for a cup of water daily, every other day or weekly, I've learned thru the decades that raised beds tend to warm up earlier and start the season sooner than in the ground, but they also drain faster and dry out quicker. So that cupa water isn't gonna help when we don't get rain on a semi regular basis. ALL my perennial gardens are raised beds and containers. During that dry spell we had back in June, I had to water everything at least every evening, and the next day I could plunge my hand into the soil and nothing would stick. It took that wet period to soak the soils adequately enough to pull the plants out of stress. You have to use rule of personal thumb on what books tell you. I have a fig tree that is happier than pigs in slop, and it hasn't read the book that says they aren't hardy to this growing zone. Micro climates. And raised square foot gardening are little individual micro climates sometimes. Now, we are talking about some 100 boxes here. Having an employee going around with a bucket and a cup and making sure he gets everything watered properly is a waste of time and money in my opinion. So, I decided to experiment by using a 32 ounce cup, leaving enough of it empty so as to hold the alloted amount of water so the fellow could just go around with a wand and fill up the cups. We only tried this with 12 boxes and we had a few problems and my wife blamed everythiing on planting those dang cups. well, maybe not understanding it was easy to point the blame. I will say that styrofoam isn't the best thing for cups. And yes, having an employee going around with a bucket and a cup IS a waste of time. You'd do better to invest in a soaker hose (Lowes has the rolls of 50 foot flat ones for cheap, and last year I lucked out and got 25 foot rolls of them for 75% off! ) We've tried that. It didn't work very well so now we have them lined up in the tree farm. I know styrofoam is not biodegradable so I know it does no harm to anything in the box. I know that when we remove the plants to rejuvenate a box for future plantings the roots are NOT rootbound or anything. I'm pretty sure, as the boxes are filled with a plant medium mixture of 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 well composted cow manure and other organic material, and 1/3 sphagnum peat moss, that there is ample aeration. So, what I am trying to determine is whether or not the cups are detrimental or have I just run into a run of fungus, disease or something. Try this mixture instead.....instead of the sphagnum peat moss, which tends to dry out quicker, grab up the neighbor's leaves off the curbs and run your lawn mower over the piles until shredded and work that into your beds. The leaves will break down into a perfect 6.5 Ph and the plants will have humus. You could also gather lawn clippings and mix those with the ground leaves. I've invested in a shredded and am shredding up all the junk mail and catalogs from the 4000 plant companies and nurseries (almost 99% of them have gone over to soy based inks anyway, so the paper and inks are safe) and put the shredded paper into my compost pile with my kitchen gunk. We do vermi composting. We have several bins of red wigglers working their heads (both ends) off. And all the city dwelling kin folks bring their leaves out to the farm in the fall in return for some pasture raised BBQ. Once fall comes, I'll be stealing bags of leaves from these mushroom subdivisions that are springing up across 25-70 and take them off their hands. I don't care if there's weed seeds or whatever in them (these are subdivisions built on former pastures) because I also cow pie pick my neighbor's pasture next to me for that moo gold............. For my two cents, I'd just soon take the started plants out of whatever they are started in, and plant them directly into the square, but the problem with that is, unless I'm following the guys around, they inevitably overwater, washout or just plain wipe out a whole box. hmmmmmmmm, sounds like a little mulch would save you some time on the over watering situation. An investment of a few bags of cypress mulch would keep the moisture levels at a more even keel, and if you don't want to go cypress, the cheaper stuff would work and break down into more soil and humus! As for the washing out problem, the mulch might help that. I still think a minor investment of a few soaker hoses would help tremendously. I'm seriously thinking of getting a few and running some multiple connections from my well head into the assorted boxes. The only problem is that my boxes are all over the place all Helter Skelter.........the only ones that would benefit from soakers would be the long front of the house raised garden (the first one I put in), the fig bed, and I suspect the fig has already learned about the well....the box just across from the fig bed, the Vitex garden next to THAT, and maybe if I could interconnect and run a long one to the raised "tomato" boxes that Squire built me that now have perennials......the trees listened to my wailings of no trees and now I have to do some judicious pruning and whacking to open up the west fence line again.....sigh........... I believe you will find that the soaker hoses wind up doing more watering outside the boxes than in. The shortest we have been able to find is 25' and winding that around a 4X4 box is pretty cumbersome and if you let it run from one box to the next, you wind up with a flooded path to walk on. By the way, anywhere near Jefferson City? 14 miles. I live in Dandridge just offa Valley Home Road, turn on Zirkle, go past that scary new subdivision that is built along I-40 where it crosses over Zirkle, turn left onto Wine and once you inhale at the view of English Mountain and the rolling hills below you and take the curve, shoot up the road directly in front of you instead of taking the last curve going towards 25-70 and go up that dead end. Inhale again and enjoy Miz Mary Wine's view of English Mountain that I borrow every day, hook the left driveway and take the gentle curve past the boulder sticking out towards the drive and go thru the iron gates past the crape myrtles (white and watermelon) and all those flowers and perennials obscuring the house almost past the gutters on the left is the ol' madgardener's and yer in Fairy Holler proper! fire a warning shot before you come and I'll make sure there's sweet iced tea chilling in the fridge..............maybe you'll see something you want a piece of.... maddie We are hoping to come up and visit my old Peshawar, Pakistan room mate, Don Barbee, sometime next year. We were spies back in the 1960s. He's in the goat business http://www.mountainviewboers.com/ Anyhow, I think I've got a handle on this cup deal. Catch ya later. We'll holler when we get up that way. -- J.C. |
What do you think?
"madgardener" wrote in message ... Ahhh, you've never lived under the watchful eye of a south Texas rice belt water district, have you? by the way, J.C. when you respond, it might keep the local residents on this neighborhood newsgroup from getting peeved at you posting the whole responses each time you answer Will keep that in mind. |
What do you think?
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:58:59 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: "helco" wrote in message ... Okay, since you seem loyal to your method, how's about conducting an experiment next summer? Put half your plants out in the sort of plastic cups you want to use, and put half out in peat pots. (Or one third in plastic, one third in peat, one third without a cup of any sort.) Don't clump each type together, in case there are variations in different areas of the soil. Then compare the results and report back to the News Group. helco Learning by experience? Are you insane? The web is the new god. Thou shalt drool. What is your problem? If you have nothing constructive to say, why say it? My mission is to only make positive thoughts and words. I sometimes fail, but I'm not intentionally snide and sarcastic. |
What do you think?
"Jangchub" wrote in message
... On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:58:59 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "helco" wrote in message ... Okay, since you seem loyal to your method, how's about conducting an experiment next summer? Put half your plants out in the sort of plastic cups you want to use, and put half out in peat pots. (Or one third in plastic, one third in peat, one third without a cup of any sort.) Don't clump each type together, in case there are variations in different areas of the soil. Then compare the results and report back to the News Group. helco Learning by experience? Are you insane? The web is the new god. Thou shalt drool. What is your problem? If you have nothing constructive to say, why say it? My mission is to only make positive thoughts and words. I sometimes fail, but I'm not intentionally snide and sarcastic. If the OP had read even just one or two of the most basic gardening books (which should come before graduating to square foot gardening, a method which, by the way, I have a lot of respect for), he would have the answers to his questions. The step in his education would be your suggestion: Learn by doing. Instead, what we're seeing here is an example of how some people never learned to learn. |
What do you think?
"Jangchub" wrote in message ... On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:58:59 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "helco" wrote in message ... Okay, since you seem loyal to your method, how's about conducting an experiment next summer? Put half your plants out in the sort of plastic cups you want to use, and put half out in peat pots. (Or one third in plastic, one third in peat, one third without a cup of any sort.) Don't clump each type together, in case there are variations in different areas of the soil. Then compare the results and report back to the News Group. helco Learning by experience? Are you insane? The web is the new god. Thou shalt drool. What is your problem? If you have nothing constructive to say, why say it? My mission is to only make positive thoughts and words. I sometimes fail, but I'm not intentionally snide and sarcastic. I've killfiled the fellow so his antagonism and arrogance does me no harm. -- J.C. |
What do you think?
"J.C." wrote in message
m... I've killfiled the fellow so his antagonism and arrogance does me no harm. J.C. I don't like to hear about my mistakes, either, but I still step up to the fire. |
What do you think?
"J.C." wrote in message ... I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? Snipped much discussion of problems with styrofoam cups, cups in general, various other solutions ... J.C. wrote: If you are familiar with this method, as portrayed in the book, you will recall that the method calls for making a "saucer" type impression in the square and putting the plant right in the middle of that. Then, you water each plant by pouring one cup of water into the impression either daily, every other day or weekly, as the particular type of plant spec calls for. Now, we are talking about some 100 boxes here. Having an employee going around with a bucket and a cup and making sure he gets everything watered properly is a waste of time and money in my opinion. So, I decided to experiment by using a 32 ounce cup, leaving enough of it empty so as to hold the alloted amount of water so the fellow could just go around with a wand and fill up the cups. We only tried this with 12 boxes and we had a few problems and my wife blamed everythiing on planting those dang cups. I know styrofoam is not biodegradable so I know it does no harm to anything in the box. I know that when we remove the plants to rejuvenate a box for future plantings the roots are NOT rootbound or anything. I'm pretty sure, as the boxes are filled with a plant medium mixture of 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 well composted cow manure and other organic material, and 1/3 spanghum peat moss, that there is ample aeration. So, what I am trying to determine is whether or not the cups are detrimental or have I just run into a run of fungus, disease or something. For my two cents, I'd just soon take the started plants out of whatever they are started in, and plant them directly into the square, but the problem with that is, unless I'm following the guys around, they inevitably overwater, washout or just plain wipe out a whole box. -- J.C. helco wrote: Okay, since you seem loyal to your method, how's about conducting an experiment next summer? Put half your plants out in the sort of plastic cups you want to use, and put half out in peat pots. (Or one third in plastic, one third in peat, one third without a cup of any sort.) Don't clump each type together, in case there are variations in different areas of the soil. Then compare the results and report back to the News Group. helco J.C. wrote: We did that this year. That's why I'm asking others what experiences they have? J.C. So if you conducted that experiment this year, what were the results? If your wife suggests that any damage that occurs is due to the cups, does that mean that only the plants in the cups suffered the damage? If that's the case, there's your answer. If plants suffered equally no matter how they were planted, then there's a different answer. helco |
What do you think?
"helco" wrote in message m... "J.C." wrote in message ... I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? Snipped much discussion of problems with styrofoam cups, cups in general, various other solutions ... J.C. wrote: If you are familiar with this method, as portrayed in the book, you will recall that the method calls for making a "saucer" type impression in the square and putting the plant right in the middle of that. Then, you water each plant by pouring one cup of water into the impression either daily, every other day or weekly, as the particular type of plant spec calls for. Now, we are talking about some 100 boxes here. Having an employee going around with a bucket and a cup and making sure he gets everything watered properly is a waste of time and money in my opinion. So, I decided to experiment by using a 32 ounce cup, leaving enough of it empty so as to hold the alloted amount of water so the fellow could just go around with a wand and fill up the cups. We only tried this with 12 boxes and we had a few problems and my wife blamed everythiing on planting those dang cups. I know styrofoam is not biodegradable so I know it does no harm to anything in the box. I know that when we remove the plants to rejuvenate a box for future plantings the roots are NOT rootbound or anything. I'm pretty sure, as the boxes are filled with a plant medium mixture of 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3 well composted cow manure and other organic material, and 1/3 spanghum peat moss, that there is ample aeration. So, what I am trying to determine is whether or not the cups are detrimental or have I just run into a run of fungus, disease or something. For my two cents, I'd just soon take the started plants out of whatever they are started in, and plant them directly into the square, but the problem with that is, unless I'm following the guys around, they inevitably overwater, washout or just plain wipe out a whole box. -- J.C. helco wrote: Okay, since you seem loyal to your method, how's about conducting an experiment next summer? Put half your plants out in the sort of plastic cups you want to use, and put half out in peat pots. (Or one third in plastic, one third in peat, one third without a cup of any sort.) Don't clump each type together, in case there are variations in different areas of the soil. Then compare the results and report back to the News Group. helco J.C. wrote: We did that this year. That's why I'm asking others what experiences they have? J.C. So if you conducted that experiment this year, what were the results? If your wife suggests that any damage that occurs is due to the cups, does that mean that only the plants in the cups suffered the damage? If that's the case, there's your answer. If plants suffered equally no matter how they were planted, then there's a different answer. helco In my collection of 30+ gardening books, most of which include instructions for properly preparing a planting hole, I've never seen mention of surrounding the plant with a waterproof plastic substance. The OP needs books. Lots of books. |
What do you think?
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:11:01 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: If the OP had read even just one or two of the most basic gardening books (which should come before graduating to square foot gardening, a method which, by the way, I have a lot of respect for), he would have the answers to his questions. The step in his education would be your suggestion: Learn by doing. Instead, what we're seeing here is an example of how some people never learned to learn. And certainly mocking and lambasting someone for not knowing how to learn is the way to help them learn. Right? In the dozen or so years on Usenet, and 20 years I've been online posting about gardening, be sure there isn't one thing I went out and did based on what I read in a newsgroup. Quite the opposite. I did learn how to check up. I'm so happy I know how to learn and if another cannot, it's nothing to get snotty about. That's my contention. |
What do you think?
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:56:31 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: "J.C." wrote in message om... I've killfiled the fellow so his antagonism and arrogance does me no harm. J.C. I don't like to hear about my mistakes, either, but I still step up to the fire. A human of character steps up to the fire by sharing wisdom and having compassion. I am not always perfect either, but I strive to be a better person. Usenet is an excellent laboratory to learn to have skillful means. |
What do you think?
"Jangchub" wrote in message
... On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:56:31 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote: "J.C." wrote in message . com... I've killfiled the fellow so his antagonism and arrogance does me no harm. J.C. I don't like to hear about my mistakes, either, but I still step up to the fire. A human of character steps up to the fire by sharing wisdom and having compassion. I am not always perfect either, but I strive to be a better person. Usenet is an excellent laboratory to learn to have skillful means. He was told within hours that styrofoam cups were a lousy idea. That's when the conversation should've ended. And, since they're extremely cheap, you'd think the nursery plant industry would use them by the billions, instead of plastic 6-packs or hard plastic pots. But, they don't. |
What do you think?
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:34:33 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote: He was told within hours that styrofoam cups were a lousy idea. That's when the conversation should've ended. And, since they're extremely cheap, you'd think the nursery plant industry would use them by the billions, instead of plastic 6-packs or hard plastic pots. But, they don't. I know, I'm one of the people who said styrofoam should be banned from the earth! My point is, if the conversation is over for any number of people, they should or could drop out of it. To continue to slam the OP is not helpful. I know why plastic is used in horticulture. I was a professional grower in a commercial greenhouse. It's not very logical to use something flimsy because when those plug trays are loaded up to bring to the head house where the transplanting is done, they are slung around like bales of hay. Styrofoam is flimsy. To try and give the OP a more reasonable answer, I would say to start the seeds in the styrofoam if he must, but to take a sheet of newspaper and line each cup with it. The paper can be doubled up and worked and folded to fit into the cups. This will cut way down on transplant shock and when it's time to plant them out in the garden the plant will just pop out of the cup. Plant the newspaper and all. |
What do you think?
"Jangchub" wrote in message EVERYBODY MISSES OUR REASON FOR TRYING THE STYROFOAM CUPS!!!!! And the only question I needed to have answered was, could the problems we experienced be the result of using the CUPS, not whether they are styrofoam, plastic, paper, newspaper are what have you. THE SIMPLE QUESTION IS, DOES PLANTING THE CUP HAVE A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON THE PLANT? As the people over on rec.gardens.edible were a bit more intelligent, much less arrogant and willing to address the main question, I don't need anymore bullshit from this ng. PLONK to the whole damn bunch! And, I thank you all in advance for your "good riddances" I'm sure to follow. -- J.C. |
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"J.C." wrote in message
m... "Jangchub" wrote in message EVERYBODY MISSES OUR REASON FOR TRYING THE STYROFOAM CUPS!!!!! And the only question I needed to have answered was, could the problems we experienced be the result of using the CUPS, not whether they are styrofoam, plastic, paper, newspaper are what have you. THE SIMPLE QUESTION IS, DOES PLANTING THE CUP HAVE A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON THE PLANT? If you weren't a child, and you took the time to learn the BASICS of gardening, you would KNOW that your little cups were a stupid idea. LISTEN TO YOUR WIFE. YOU ARE HURTING YOUR PLANTS. Wait....that's your problem. You're afraid to tell your wife that she's right. |
What do you think?
J.C. wrote:
"Jangchub" wrote in message EVERYBODY MISSES OUR REASON FOR TRYING THE STYROFOAM CUPS!!!!! And the only question I needed to have answered was, could the problems we experienced be the result of using the CUPS, not whether they are styrofoam, plastic, paper, newspaper are what have you. THE SIMPLE QUESTION IS, DOES PLANTING THE CUP HAVE A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON THE PLANT? The plastic cups ought to discourage cutworms, but that should be a *good* thing. The plastic may be driving the roots deeper than they would normally go before they get to spread out, and that's not always a good thing. BTW, you should have said you scavenged used styrofoam cups from a cafeteria dumpster before they were headed to the landfill (or incinerator, ever burned styrene?) That might have made you a hero instead of getting yelled at. Bob |
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Try rooting from a sandwich zip bag
J.C. wrote: I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup. When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book. Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs, disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say and why? -- J.C. |
What do you think?
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:37:24 GMT, "J.C." wrote:
"Jangchub" wrote in message EVERYBODY MISSES OUR REASON FOR TRYING THE STYROFOAM CUPS!!!!! And the only question I needed to have answered was, could the problems we experienced be the result of using the CUPS, not whether they are styrofoam, plastic, paper, newspaper are what have you. THE SIMPLE QUESTION IS, DOES PLANTING THE CUP HAVE A DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON THE PLANT? YES YES YES! It restricts the roots and when you water into the cup you are not watering the feeder roots which are out by the drip line of the plant. You also give opportunity for pathogens to grow under the top of the cup if your plant is lower than the top of the cup. As the people over on rec.gardens.edible were a bit more intelligent, much less arrogant and willing to address the main question, I don't need anymore bullshit from this ng. PLONK to the whole damn bunch! And, I thank you all in advance for your "good riddances" I'm sure to follow. Oh, didn't hear what you wanted to hear. Typical. This is why you were answered ten times and you didn't have the ability to glean from that. |
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