I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and
have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's
Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup.

When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant
the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the
watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book.

Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs,
disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife.
She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say
and why?


--
J.C.

"J.C." wrote in message
m...
I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and
have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's
Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup.

When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and
plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to
do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book.

Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs,
disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife.
She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say
and why?
--
J.C.

If your planting method is such a great idea, I wonder why nursery plants
aren't grown in styrofoam. Hmmm?

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"J.C." wrote in message
m...
I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening
and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from
Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup.

When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and
plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to
do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book.

Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs,
disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my
wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do
you say and why?
--
J.C.

If your planting method is such a great idea, I wonder why nursery plants
aren't grown in styrofoam. Hmmm?


I didn't say it was a great idea. I simply asked what others thought. The
arrogance or your responce, in my opinion, is uncalled for.


--
J.C.

"J.C." wrote in message
m...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"J.C." wrote in message
m...
I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening
and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from
Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup.

When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and
plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to
do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book.

Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs,
disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my
wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do
you say and why?
--
J.C.

If your planting method is such a great idea, I wonder why nursery plants
aren't grown in styrofoam. Hmmm?


I didn't say it was a great idea. I simply asked what others thought. The
arrogance or your responce, in my opinion, is uncalled for.
J.C.

It's a lousy idea for reasons other than plant culture. Styrofoam is an
obnoxious substance. There are so many better solutions, many of them
reusable. I've had smooth plastic flower pots that I bought in bulk 20 years
ago, a little larger than a cup of yogurt. When I'm ready to plant, the
plants slip out of the pots easily, with no root damage. I get the same
results with 6-packs, which I've been able to reuse for 5-10 years.

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:39:10 GMT, "J.C." wrote:

I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and
have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's
Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup.

When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant
the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the
watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book.

Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs,
disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife.
She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say
and why?

I think those cups should be against the law and banished from the
universe! You are much better off using something else.

Well. Mr. J.C., if the dang cups aren't causing your wilt, BROWNING
leaves, low yield, bugs and disease then what the heck is causing those
things? How can you grow a nine foot tall tomato plant in a coffee cup
anyhow? You might as well keep your string bean plants on your window
sill and your cucumbers on your doorstep in their little bitty cups.
Why are you so insistant on keeping the plants in the cups anyhow?
Sounds like your having a fight with your better half and youre
carrying this business too far. .

J.C. wrote:
I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and
have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's
Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup.

When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant
the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the
watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book.

Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs,
disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife.
She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say
and why?


--
J.C.

"J.C." wrote in message
m...
I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening
and
have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from
Sam's
Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup.

When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and
plant
the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the
watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book.

Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs,
disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife.
She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say
and why?


--
J.C.



I think your wife is right, when you get them in the soil why not push down
on the contents of the cup, pull up on its wall and take the foam away?

David

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...

"J.C." wrote in message
m...
I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening
and
have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from
Sam's
Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup.

When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and
plant
the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the
watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book.

Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs,
disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my
wife.
She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you
say
and why?


--
J.C.



I think your wife is right, when you get them in the soil why not push
down
on the contents of the cup, pull up on its wall and take the foam away?

David



Because in the book, "Square Foot Gardening" it calls for a "cup" of water
at the base of each plant on a specific time frame. My purpose with the cups
is that they allow me to put the right amount of water directly to the
roots. It does NOT have to be foam, that's not my concern. I just happen to
get a good price on a case of them at Sam's. Heck, forget the foam. If I was
using plastic cups, or paper cups, or some other kind of cups, does anyone
believe that cutting the bottom out of the cups and planting the whole cup
causes any problems with the plant?


--
J.C.

"J.C." wrote in message
m...

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...

"J.C." wrote in message
m...
I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening
and
have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from
Sam's
Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup.

When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and
plant
the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do
the
watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book.

Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs,
disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my
wife.
She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you
say
and why?


--
J.C.



I think your wife is right, when you get them in the soil why not push
down
on the contents of the cup, pull up on its wall and take the foam away?

David



Because in the book, "Square Foot Gardening" it calls for a "cup" of water
at the base of each plant on a specific time frame. My purpose with the
cups is that they allow me to put the right amount of water directly to
the roots. It does NOT have to be foam, that's not my concern. I just
happen to get a good price on a case of them at Sam's. Heck, forget the
foam. If I was using plastic cups, or paper cups, or some other kind of
cups, does anyone believe that cutting the bottom out of the cups and
planting the whole cup causes any problems with the plant?
J.C.

Yes. It will cause problems for the plants, especially those with wide,
shallow roots. And, what is the "specific time frame" for watering? How many
minutes, hours, days or whatever?

I would guess that air circulation is a major problem.
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
news
"J.C." wrote in message
m...

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...

"J.C." wrote in message
m...
I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening
and
have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from
Sam's
Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup.

When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and
plant
the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do
the
watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book.

Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs,
disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my
wife.
She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you
say
and why?


--
J.C.



I think your wife is right, when you get them in the soil why not push
down
on the contents of the cup, pull up on its wall and take the foam away?

David



Because in the book, "Square Foot Gardening" it calls for a "cup" of
water at the base of each plant on a specific time frame. My purpose with
the cups is that they allow me to put the right amount of water directly
to the roots. It does NOT have to be foam, that's not my concern. I just
happen to get a good price on a case of them at Sam's. Heck, forget the
foam. If I was using plastic cups, or paper cups, or some other kind of
cups, does anyone believe that cutting the bottom out of the cups and
planting the whole cup causes any problems with the plant?
J.C.

Yes. It will cause problems for the plants, especially those with wide,
shallow roots. And, what is the "specific time frame" for watering? How
many minutes, hours, days or whatever?

J.C. wrote:
I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening and
have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from Sam's
Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup.

When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and plant
the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to do the
watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book.

Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs,
disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my wife.
She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do you say
and why?




after reading everyone else's responses, I've come to the obvious
solutions. Styrofoam however cheap is wrong only because you're leaving
the cups around the young seedlings, and your thinking is probably as
protection against cut worms, but in this case, everyone whose response
is deffinate is dead on the money. Wilt is from lack of enough
nutrients, browning leaves are fungal which the styrofoam doesn't allow
the soil around the plants to breath, bugs attack distressed plants to
eliminate them. Only the stronger plants survive. Distressed plants
send out inaudible signals to the insects to "come and put me out of my
misery I'm not well!" And low yields are from cramped roots. Had that
happen myself with a trial growing of some plants from seeds that had
the exact same problems as yours.

So here's the simpler solution: Everyone has helped with alternatives.
You could use cheap paper cups that will break down if planted. (no
wax lined cup, it won't break down fast enough). Your best bet would be
to watch for Lowes or Home Deprived to have sales on their seed starting
stuff. The peat pots are great and with their over purchasing for
Spring, you can pick up everything more than half price at the leg end
of Spring. Or you can order bulk garden cheap starting seed stuff from
Garden Supply. Park Seeds is a bit pricey but you'd have quality stuff.
Same with Garden Supply. Or you could check out Gardens Alive! and
price their seed starting stuff. Or Lee Valley Tools is another
wonderful, reusable source for seed starting stuff.

Don't let this set back discourage you. Are you burying the whole cup
into the soil once you punch out the bottoms? If you are, that's a HUGE
part of your problem. Another source would be a co-op or old fashioned
hardware store that always has Spring seed stuff. I'm sure they'd have
stuff still on the shelves. But the best bargain if you're frugal is to
hit Lowes (I know about Lowes personally having worked there for a few
years) or Depot when they're at the end of their season and want to get
rid of the seed trays, six packs, 24 packs, expandable coins that expand
when you soak them in water and plant (you can bury them in the ground
and after I cut the sides a bit, the roots push past the little tiny
peat pot and attain impressive sizes).

Any pots you start that will break down in the soils for your square
foot gardens will have to be buried completely. Even the peat pots.
Because if you leave even a little bit sticking out of the ground, the
moisture will wick out faster.

I've done Square foot gardening for decades and it works wonderfully.
(it's also called intensive gardening). And one inch of soil isn't
enough for a 32 ounce cup! I'd go with alternatives. Cheap paper that
WILL break down once buried and bottomed out will work. Once the
seedlings are to size, you could cut slits into the sides to expedite
faster break down and allow the roots to escape, the cup would protect
against cut worms during the early growth periods. as for the
convenience of pouring a "specific amount of water on each plant" being
easier, consider the little micro climate you've made that caused all
sorts of wonderful homes for fungus, molds, disease and bound up roots
(low yields and unhealthy plants which draw bugs to off them quickly,
Nature is amazing).

Try these ideas and get back to us. Keep on Square foot gardening. I
still do. I grow tomato's and radishes and all manner of things in
containers on my deck only because I don't have enough ground on this
steep slope and too many trees to clear to provide a spot for a square
foot garden. I do have, however some self watering boxes a friend gave
me and I have now a spot I can clear out that will provide me over 7
hours of direct sunlight and next spring I'll have for the first time a
place for my veggie garden!! Woo hoo!! Good luck to you, keep us posted.

madgardener up on the ridge, back in Fairy Holler, overlooking English
Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7, Sunset zone still intensive
gardening after almost 28 years....................

"madgardener" wrote in message
...
J.C. wrote:
I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening
and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from
Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup.

When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and
plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to
do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book.

Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs,
disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my
wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do
you say and why?




after reading everyone else's responses, I've come to the obvious
solutions.

If one of the needs is to measure how much water he supplies the plants, he
could cut rings from 32 oz yogurt containers (like the way you make cutworm
collars), and press them only slightly into the soil. They won't crumble
into annoying little bits like styrofoam, and they're reusable.

"madgardener" wrote in message
...
J.C. wrote:
I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening
and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from
Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup.

When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and
plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to
do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book.

Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs,
disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my
wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do
you say and why?




after reading everyone else's responses, I've come to the obvious
solutions. Styrofoam however cheap is wrong only because you're leaving
the cups around the young seedlings, and your thinking is probably as
protection against cut worms, but in this case, everyone whose response is
deffinate is dead on the money. Wilt is from lack of enough nutrients,
browning leaves are fungal which the styrofoam doesn't allow the soil
around the plants to breath, bugs attack distressed plants to eliminate
them. Only the stronger plants survive. Distressed plants send out
inaudible signals to the insects to "come and put me out of my misery I'm
not well!" And low yields are from cramped roots. Had that happen myself
with a trial growing of some plants from seeds that had the exact same
problems as yours.

So here's the simpler solution: Everyone has helped with alternatives.
You could use cheap paper cups that will break down if planted. (no wax
lined cup, it won't break down fast enough). Your best bet would be to
watch for Lowes or Home Deprived to have sales on their seed starting
stuff. The peat pots are great and with their over purchasing for Spring,
you can pick up everything more than half price at the leg end of Spring.
Or you can order bulk garden cheap starting seed stuff from Garden Supply.
Park Seeds is a bit pricey but you'd have quality stuff. Same with Garden
Supply. Or you could check out Gardens Alive! and price their seed
starting stuff. Or Lee Valley Tools is another wonderful, reusable source
for seed starting stuff.

Don't let this set back discourage you. Are you burying the whole cup
into the soil once you punch out the bottoms? If you are, that's a HUGE
part of your problem. Another source would be a co-op or old fashioned
hardware store that always has Spring seed stuff. I'm sure they'd have
stuff still on the shelves. But the best bargain if you're frugal is to
hit Lowes (I know about Lowes personally having worked there for a few
years) or Depot when they're at the end of their season and want to get
rid of the seed trays, six packs, 24 packs, expandable coins that expand
when you soak them in water and plant (you can bury them in the ground and
after I cut the sides a bit, the roots push past the little tiny peat pot
and attain impressive sizes).

Any pots you start that will break down in the soils for your square foot
gardens will have to be buried completely. Even the peat pots. Because if
you leave even a little bit sticking out of the ground, the moisture will
wick out faster.

I've done Square foot gardening for decades and it works wonderfully.
(it's also called intensive gardening). And one inch of soil isn't enough
for a 32 ounce cup! I'd go with alternatives. Cheap paper that WILL break
down once buried and bottomed out will work. Once the seedlings are to
size, you could cut slits into the sides to expedite faster break down and
allow the roots to escape, the cup would protect against cut worms during
the early growth periods. as for the convenience of pouring a "specific
amount of water on each plant" being easier, consider the little micro
climate you've made that caused all sorts of wonderful homes for fungus,
molds, disease and bound up roots (low yields and unhealthy plants which
draw bugs to off them quickly, Nature is amazing).

Try these ideas and get back to us. Keep on Square foot gardening. I
still do. I grow tomato's and radishes and all manner of things in
containers on my deck only because I don't have enough ground on this
steep slope and too many trees to clear to provide a spot for a square
foot garden. I do have, however some self watering boxes a friend gave me
and I have now a spot I can clear out that will provide me over 7 hours of
direct sunlight and next spring I'll have for the first time a place for
my veggie garden!! Woo hoo!! Good luck to you, keep us posted.

madgardener up on the ridge, back in Fairy Holler, overlooking English
Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7, Sunset zone still intensive
gardening after almost 28 years....................

I'm not sure we are on the same page here. When I say Square Foot Gardening,
I'm talking about this: http://www.squarefootgardening.com/

If you are familiar with this method, as portrayed in the book, you will
recall that the method calls for making a "saucer" type impression in the
square and putting the plant right in the middle of that. Then, you water
each plant by pouring one cup of water into the impression either daily,
every other day or weekly, as the particular type of plant spec calls for.

Now, we are talking about some 100 boxes here. Having an employee going
around with a bucket and a cup and making sure he gets everything watered
properly is a waste of time and money in my opinion. So, I decided to
experiment by using a 32 ounce cup, leaving enough of it empty so as to hold
the alloted amount of water so the fellow could just go around with a wand
and fill up the cups. We only tried this with 12 boxes and we had a few
problems and my wife blamed everythiing on planting those dang cups.

I know styrofoam is not biodegradable so I know it does no harm to anything
in the box. I know that when we remove the plants to rejuvenate a box for
future plantings the roots are NOT rootbound or anything. I'm pretty sure,
as the boxes are filled with a plant medium mixture of 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3
well composted cow manure and other organic material, and 1/3 spanghum peat
moss, that there is ample aeration. So, what I am trying to determine is
whether or not the cups are detrimental or have I just run into a run of
fungus, disease or something.

For my two cents, I'd just soon take the started plants out of whatever they
are started in, and plant them directly into the square, but the problem
with that is, unless I'm following the guys around, they inevitably
overwater, washout or just plain wipe out a whole box.

By the way, anywhere near Jefferson City?


--
J.C.

"J.C." wrote in message
m...

"madgardener" wrote in message
...
J.C. wrote:
I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening
and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk
from Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup.

When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and
plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to
do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book.

Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs,
disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my
wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do
you say and why?




after reading everyone else's responses, I've come to the obvious
solutions. Styrofoam however cheap is wrong only because you're leaving
the cups around the young seedlings, and your thinking is probably as
protection against cut worms, but in this case, everyone whose response
is deffinate is dead on the money. Wilt is from lack of enough
nutrients, browning leaves are fungal which the styrofoam doesn't allow
the soil around the plants to breath, bugs attack distressed plants to
eliminate them. Only the stronger plants survive. Distressed plants send
out inaudible signals to the insects to "come and put me out of my misery
I'm not well!" And low yields are from cramped roots. Had that happen
myself with a trial growing of some plants from seeds that had the exact
same problems as yours.

So here's the simpler solution: Everyone has helped with alternatives.
You could use cheap paper cups that will break down if planted. (no wax
lined cup, it won't break down fast enough). Your best bet would be to
watch for Lowes or Home Deprived to have sales on their seed starting
stuff. The peat pots are great and with their over purchasing for Spring,
you can pick up everything more than half price at the leg end of Spring.
Or you can order bulk garden cheap starting seed stuff from Garden
Supply. Park Seeds is a bit pricey but you'd have quality stuff. Same
with Garden Supply. Or you could check out Gardens Alive! and price
their seed starting stuff. Or Lee Valley Tools is another wonderful,
reusable source for seed starting stuff.

Don't let this set back discourage you. Are you burying the whole cup
into the soil once you punch out the bottoms? If you are, that's a HUGE
part of your problem. Another source would be a co-op or old fashioned
hardware store that always has Spring seed stuff. I'm sure they'd have
stuff still on the shelves. But the best bargain if you're frugal is to
hit Lowes (I know about Lowes personally having worked there for a few
years) or Depot when they're at the end of their season and want to get
rid of the seed trays, six packs, 24 packs, expandable coins that expand
when you soak them in water and plant (you can bury them in the ground
and after I cut the sides a bit, the roots push past the little tiny peat
pot and attain impressive sizes).

Any pots you start that will break down in the soils for your square foot
gardens will have to be buried completely. Even the peat pots. Because
if you leave even a little bit sticking out of the ground, the moisture
will wick out faster.

I've done Square foot gardening for decades and it works wonderfully.
(it's also called intensive gardening). And one inch of soil isn't
enough for a 32 ounce cup! I'd go with alternatives. Cheap paper that
WILL break down once buried and bottomed out will work. Once the
seedlings are to size, you could cut slits into the sides to expedite
faster break down and allow the roots to escape, the cup would protect
against cut worms during the early growth periods. as for the
convenience of pouring a "specific amount of water on each plant" being
easier, consider the little micro climate you've made that caused all
sorts of wonderful homes for fungus, molds, disease and bound up roots
(low yields and unhealthy plants which draw bugs to off them quickly,
Nature is amazing).

Try these ideas and get back to us. Keep on Square foot gardening. I
still do. I grow tomato's and radishes and all manner of things in
containers on my deck only because I don't have enough ground on this
steep slope and too many trees to clear to provide a spot for a square
foot garden. I do have, however some self watering boxes a friend gave
me and I have now a spot I can clear out that will provide me over 7
hours of direct sunlight and next spring I'll have for the first time a
place for my veggie garden!! Woo hoo!! Good luck to you, keep us
posted.

madgardener up on the ridge, back in Fairy Holler, overlooking English
Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7, Sunset zone still intensive
gardening after almost 28 years....................

I'm not sure we are on the same page here. When I say Square Foot
Gardening, I'm talking about this: http://www.squarefootgardening.com/

If you are familiar with this method, as portrayed in the book, you will
recall that the method calls for making a "saucer" type impression in the
square and putting the plant right in the middle of that. Then, you water
each plant by pouring one cup of water into the impression either daily,
every other day or weekly, as the particular type of plant spec calls for.

Now, we are talking about some 100 boxes here. Having an employee going
around with a bucket and a cup and making sure he gets everything watered
properly is a waste of time and money in my opinion. So, I decided to
experiment by using a 32 ounce cup, leaving enough of it empty so as to
hold the alloted amount of water so the fellow could just go around with a
wand and fill up the cups. We only tried this with 12 boxes and we had a
few problems and my wife blamed everythiing on planting those dang cups.

I know styrofoam is not biodegradable so I know it does no harm to
anything in the box. I know that when we remove the plants to rejuvenate a
box for future plantings the roots are NOT rootbound or anything. I'm
pretty sure, as the boxes are filled with a plant medium mixture of 1/3
vermiculite, 1/3 well composted cow manure and other organic material, and
1/3 spanghum peat moss, that there is ample aeration. So, what I am trying
to determine is whether or not the cups are detrimental or have I just run
into a run of fungus, disease or something.

For my two cents, I'd just soon take the started plants out of whatever
they are started in, and plant them directly into the square, but the
problem with that is, unless I'm following the guys around, they
inevitably overwater, washout or just plain wipe out a whole box.

By the way, anywhere near Jefferson City?
J.C.

Following WHAT guys around? Is this a garden for a restaurant or something?

As far as washout, properly cultivated soil covered with mulch will not wash
out, if you use good watering tools, like these:
http://www.dramm.com/html/main.isx?sub=18

It sounds to me like you're making a very simple thing way too complicated.

J.C. wrote:

"madgardener" wrote in message
...

J.C. wrote:

I start seeds in styrofoam cups. I do exclusively square foot gardening
and have several boxes going. I use the 32oz cups that I buy in bulk from
Sam's Club. I put about 1 inch of potting soil in the cup.

When it comes time to plant I just cut the bottom out of the cups and
plant the whole things. This leaves me the proper amount of empty cup to
do the watering called for in the Square Foot Gardening book.

Well, everything that happens, wilt, browning leaves, low yield, bugs,
disease etc., happens because I PLANT THE DANG CUPS, according to my
wife. She, and others, say this is a definate no-no. I disagree. What do
you say and why?




after reading everyone else's responses, I've come to the obvious
solutions. Styrofoam however cheap is wrong only because you're leaving
the cups around the young seedlings, and your thinking is probably as
protection against cut worms, but in this case, everyone whose response is
deffinate is dead on the money. Wilt is from lack of enough nutrients,
browning leaves are fungal which the styrofoam doesn't allow the soil
around the plants to breath, bugs attack distressed plants to eliminate
them. Only the stronger plants survive. Distressed plants send out
inaudible signals to the insects to "come and put me out of my misery I'm
not well!" And low yields are from cramped roots. Had that happen myself
with a trial growing of some plants from seeds that had the exact same
problems as yours.

So here's the simpler solution: Everyone has helped with alternatives.
You could use cheap paper cups that will break down if planted. (no wax
lined cup, it won't break down fast enough). Your best bet would be to
watch for Lowes or Home Deprived to have sales on their seed starting
stuff. The peat pots are great and with their over purchasing for Spring,
you can pick up everything more than half price at the leg end of Spring.
Or you can order bulk garden cheap starting seed stuff from Garden Supply.
Park Seeds is a bit pricey but you'd have quality stuff. Same with Garden
Supply. Or you could check out Gardens Alive! and price their seed
starting stuff. Or Lee Valley Tools is another wonderful, reusable source
for seed starting stuff.

Don't let this set back discourage you. Are you burying the whole cup
into the soil once you punch out the bottoms? If you are, that's a HUGE
part of your problem. Another source would be a co-op or old fashioned
hardware store that always has Spring seed stuff. I'm sure they'd have
stuff still on the shelves. But the best bargain if you're frugal is to
hit Lowes (I know about Lowes personally having worked there for a few
years) or Depot when they're at the end of their season and want to get
rid of the seed trays, six packs, 24 packs, expandable coins that expand
when you soak them in water and plant (you can bury them in the ground and
after I cut the sides a bit, the roots push past the little tiny peat pot
and attain impressive sizes).

Any pots you start that will break down in the soils for your square foot
gardens will have to be buried completely. Even the peat pots. Because if
you leave even a little bit sticking out of the ground, the moisture will
wick out faster.

I've done Square foot gardening for decades and it works wonderfully.
(it's also called intensive gardening). And one inch of soil isn't enough
for a 32 ounce cup! I'd go with alternatives. Cheap paper that WILL break
down once buried and bottomed out will work. Once the seedlings are to
size, you could cut slits into the sides to expedite faster break down and
allow the roots to escape, the cup would protect against cut worms during
the early growth periods. as for the convenience of pouring a "specific
amount of water on each plant" being easier, consider the little micro
climate you've made that caused all sorts of wonderful homes for fungus,
molds, disease and bound up roots (low yields and unhealthy plants which
draw bugs to off them quickly, Nature is amazing).

Try these ideas and get back to us. Keep on Square foot gardening. I
still do. I grow tomato's and radishes and all manner of things in
containers on my deck only because I don't have enough ground on this
steep slope and too many trees to clear to provide a spot for a square
foot garden. I do have, however some self watering boxes a friend gave me
and I have now a spot I can clear out that will provide me over 7 hours of
direct sunlight and next spring I'll have for the first time a place for
my veggie garden!! Woo hoo!! Good luck to you, keep us posted.

madgardener up on the ridge, back in Fairy Holler, overlooking English
Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7, Sunset zone still intensive
gardening after almost 28 years....................


I'm not sure we are on the same page here. When I say Square Foot Gardening,
I'm talking about this: http://www.squarefootgardening.com/

If you are familiar with this method, as portrayed in the book, you will
recall that the method calls for making a "saucer" type impression in the
square and putting the plant right in the middle of that. Then, you water
each plant by pouring one cup of water into the impression either daily,
every other day or weekly, as the particular type of plant spec calls for.

Now, we are talking about some 100 boxes here. Having an employee going
around with a bucket and a cup and making sure he gets everything watered
properly is a waste of time and money in my opinion. So, I decided to
experiment by using a 32 ounce cup, leaving enough of it empty so as to hold
the alloted amount of water so the fellow could just go around with a wand
and fill up the cups. We only tried this with 12 boxes and we had a few
problems and my wife blamed everythiing on planting those dang cups.

I know styrofoam is not biodegradable so I know it does no harm to anything
in the box. I know that when we remove the plants to rejuvenate a box for
future plantings the roots are NOT rootbound or anything. I'm pretty sure,
as the boxes are filled with a plant medium mixture of 1/3 vermiculite, 1/3
well composted cow manure and other organic material, and 1/3 spanghum peat
moss, that there is ample aeration. So, what I am trying to determine is
whether or not the cups are detrimental or have I just run into a run of
fungus, disease or something.

For my two cents, I'd just soon take the started plants out of whatever they
are started in, and plant them directly into the square, but the problem
with that is, unless I'm following the guys around, they inevitably
overwater, washout or just plain wipe out a whole box.

By the way, anywhere near Jefferson City?



Fire those guys and put in some drip irrigation calibrated to water how
you desire.


Carl


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