And some people say there's no God..........
 

Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours.

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of sand,
and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer would
show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out,
and it was already gone.

--
Vic

And some people say there's no God..........
 

Victor Faraday wrote in message

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of sand,
and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer would
show with great pride.

It is not the equivalent of a civil engineering project though, being much much
simpler. All the spider needs to do is jump back and forth between anchor spots
a few times and then walk around the perimeter with the prior strands to the
same side of it's body.

Very simple rules can create the appearance of complexity, much the way
language and the international monetary system exhibit complexity even though
they have no master designer.

--
***Free Your Mind***

Posted with JSNewsreader Preview 0.9.4.2724

[ Followup-To: alt.religion.christian ]

And some people say there's no God..........
 

"Victor Faraday" wrote in
:

Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the
hedge on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours.

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand, and likely less than a year old, building something any civil
engineer would show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m.,
looked out, and it was already gone.

--
Vic



Do you still look for clouds that remind you of various things like birds,
your favorite deity, etc?

And some people say there's no God..........
 

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..
Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours.

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand,
and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer
would
show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out,
and it was already gone.

OK, please continue. You had a point to make? What you've written so far
describes something I see variations of all the time at my rural home.
Beautiful, interesting, and natural but not magic or supernatural.
So, how *exactly* do you get a god, whatever that is, from a spider and
it's web? Offer something other than warm, fuzzy prose. I like that stuff
and it has it's place, but not as proof of what you suggest it proves.
Rob Brown





Vic

And some people say there's no God...
 

Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe
the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old, building
something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to
pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone.

Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with
some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow
resemble little gods?

And some people say there's no God..........
 

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..
Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there

I looked up into the sky and saw a nice cloud.

And some people say there is no Osiris.

--
rb #2187

And some people say there's no God...
 

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote:

Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe
the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old, building
something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to
pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone.

Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with
some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow
resemble little gods?

He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent
designers, despite their very tiny brains.

Sam Heywood
-- Message handled by Pine, Version 4.62

And some people say there's no God..........
 

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:22:06 +0000, Rob Brown wrote:

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..
Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours.

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand,
and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer
would
show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out,
and it was already gone.

OK, please continue. You had a point to make? What you've written so far
describes something I see variations of all the time at my rural home.
Beautiful, interesting, and natural but not magic or supernatural.
So, how *exactly* do you get a god, whatever that is, from a spider and
it's web? Offer something other than warm, fuzzy prose. I like that stuff
and it has it's place, but not as proof of what you suggest it proves.

It works this way:

1. I saw a spider web.

2. Therefor, god.

--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]

http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC

"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com

And some people say there's no God..........
 

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:00:04 +0000, Ron Baker, Pluralitas! wrote:

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..
Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there

I looked up into the sky and saw a nice cloud.

And some people say there is no Osiris.


I saw lightning and heard thunder. Yet some people say there is no Thor.

--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]

http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC

"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com

And some people say there's no God..........
 

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..
Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours.

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand,
and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer
would
show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out,
and it was already gone.

--
Vic

All I note, which is also the REALITY of the thing, evidence of a spider and
a web.
Obvioiusly this spider, "with a brain maybe the size of a grain of sand" has
one over on you!

And some people say there's no God...
 

Samuel W. Heywood wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote:

Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe
the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old, building
something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to
pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone.

Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with
some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow
resemble little gods?

He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent
designers, despite their very tiny brains.


.... so the gods have tiny brains?

And some people say there's no God...
 

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Chris H. Fleming wrote:

Samuel W. Heywood wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote:

Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe
the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old, building
something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to
pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone.

Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with
some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow
resemble little gods?

He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent
designers, despite their very tiny brains.

... so the gods have tiny brains?

I just knew that some very smart people would draw that conclusion.

Sam Heywood
-- Message handled by Pine, Version 4.62

And some people say there's no God..........
 

"Mark K. Bilbo" wrote:

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:22:06 +0000, Rob Brown wrote:

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..
Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours.

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand,
and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer
would
show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out,
and it was already gone.

OK, please continue. You had a point to make? What you've written so far
describes something I see variations of all the time at my rural home.
Beautiful, interesting, and natural but not magic or supernatural.
So, how *exactly* do you get a god, whatever that is, from a spider and
it's web? Offer something other than warm, fuzzy prose. I like that stuff
and it has it's place, but not as proof of what you suggest it proves.

It works this way:

1. I saw a spider web.

2. Therefor, god.

/em smacks forehead

It's all so obvious now! How could I have missed the connection?!
--
Gregory Gadow

Help defend marriage in Washington state!
http://www.wa-doma.org

And some people say there's no God...
 

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 10:18:00 -0400, "Samuel W. Heywood"
wrote:

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote:

Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe
the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old, building
something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to
pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone.

Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with
some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow
resemble little gods?

He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent
designers, despite their very tiny brains.

That's nothing. Water can create mighty valleys, waterfalls and
deltas. It is around us, it penetrates us and binds the galaxy
together. Let the force be with you. Live long and.. oops sorry
wrong one.

When 'cool' water can make beautiful icicles and mighty glaciers.

When 'hot' it can disappear and just 'float away into clouds'.
Now that's real cool man.

Wonderfully creative yer water is. Yet not one single brain
cell anywhere.

This post was inspired by a thunderstorm that is fast
approaching as I type. It sounds quite agitated too.

Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County

And some people say there's no God..........
 

"Mark K. Bilbo" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:22:06 +0000, Rob Brown wrote:

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..
Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the
hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours.

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand,
and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer
would
show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out,
and it was already gone.

OK, please continue. You had a point to make? What you've written so far
describes something I see variations of all the time at my rural home.
Beautiful, interesting, and natural but not magic or supernatural.
So, how *exactly* do you get a god, whatever that is, from a spider and
it's web? Offer something other than warm, fuzzy prose. I like that stuff
and it has it's place, but not as proof of what you suggest it proves.

It works this way:

1. I saw a spider web.

2. Therefor, god.

--
Mark K. Bilbo

Oooooh....now I understand. That explains everything.
Rob Brown

--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]

http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC

"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com

And some people say there's no God..........
 

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..


So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand,

oh don't be so hard on yourself - I'm sure your brain is bigger than that

And some people say there's a God..........
 

A few months ago, I was taking a train uptown to see my friend. The
train slowed down as it approached the first stop and stopped halfway
into the station. Another train was stationary on the down track short
of the end of the platform.

Eventually we pulled fully into the station and passengers were able to
embark/disembark. The train left the station, but soon after, it
stopped in a tunnel for 15 minutes. The current had been turned off,
the driver explained, because of an 'incident' at the previous station.

Later it transpired that the down train had had a 'jumper'. Well, a
sitter, in fact. He'd climbed down just before the train pulled in and
sat on the track far too late for the inevitable to be prevented. The
current on the down line had to be turned off for 4 hours while
tranport police looked for the sitter's head, which a fox had ran off
with.

And some people say there's no God...
 

Samuel W. Heywood wrote:
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, Tough Tonto wrote:

Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the
hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours. So here we have a creature, with a brain
maybe
the size of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old, building
something any civil engineer would show with great pride. I got up to
pee around 3 a.m., looked out, and it was already gone.

Wonderful, but what does a nice spider web have to do with
some people saying "there's no God"? Do you think spiders somehow
resemble little gods?

He is making the point that spiders are superbly intelligent
designers, despite their very tiny brains.

Sam Heywood
-- Message handled by Pine, Version 4.62


By the same reasoning, water molecules must be superbly intelligent
designers, since they arrange themselves into snowflakes.

Design, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

And some people say there's no God..........
 

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Victor Faraday
) made the light shine upon us with this:


You sound like that video with Kirk Cameron and his sidekick explaining how
bananas were created to perfectly fit into a human hand. LOL. I can name
a few other things that were probably not created to fit into a human hand,
but nonetheless do.

--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Member: Intensional misspellingg club.

And some people say there's no God..........
 

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..
Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours.

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand,
and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer
would
show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out,
and it was already gone.

--
Vic


My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God. Then
he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he has a
PhD). He has turned extremely religious. Claims there is no way that
'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things on atomic
levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst scientists.
They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science they get. Very
interesting stuff.

And some people say there's no God..........
 

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet ZenIsWhen
) made the light shine upon us with this:

Obvioiusly this spider, "with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand" has one over on you!

They certainly have one over on my daughter. A tiny little spider can make
her scream her lungs out. I tried to explain, out of the many thousands of
species of spider, only two are poisonous and one of those cannot tolerate
the climate where we live. Didn't help.

--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Member: Intensional misspellingg club.

And some people say there's no God..........
 

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..
Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours.

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand,
and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer
would
show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out,
and it was already gone.

--
Vic


My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God. Then
he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he has a
PhD). He has turned extremely religious. Claims there is no way that
'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things on
atomic levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst
scientists. They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science
they get. Very interesting stuff.

The story about your dad may be true but it proves nothing about science.
It isn't even about science. The rest of what you wrote also isn't about
science and is at best an unsupported assertion not a "matter of fact".
Rob Brown

And some people say there's no God..........
 

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..
Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours.

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand,
and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer
would
show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out,
and it was already gone.

Lovely story

Now, where's the god?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ******* Extraordinaire
#1557

And some people say there's no God..........
 

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God. Then
he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he has a
PhD). He has turned extremely religious. Claims there is no way that
'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things on
atomic levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst
scientists.

I've got an undergrad degree in physics myself, and I concur. Religion
is not science and never will be. It is far beyond that.

They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science they get.

Fantastic design without designer is a harder thing to buy into than
belief in an Almighty alpha and omega. These atheist types are
trying hard to reply in clever & witty ways, but they remind me
of hayseeds who see priceless works of art as miscellaneous
smearing of paint on a canvas.:)

--
Vic

And some people say there's no God..........
 

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:55:21 -0400, "Victor Faraday"
wrote:


"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God. Then
he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he has a
PhD). He has turned extremely religious. Claims there is no way that
'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things on
atomic levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst
scientists.

I've got an undergrad degree in physics myself, and I concur. Religion
is not science and never will be. It is far beyond that.

They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science they get.

Fantastic design without designer is a harder thing to buy into than
belief in an Almighty alpha and omega. These atheist types are
trying hard to reply in clever & witty ways, but they remind me
of hayseeds who see priceless works of art as miscellaneous
smearing of paint on a canvas.:)

Yet another theist lying through his teeth about atheists. What is it
with you assholes?

And some people say there's no God..........
 

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..

"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God.
Then he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he
has a PhD). He has turned extremely religious. Claims there is no way
that 'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things
on atomic levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst
scientists.

I've got an undergrad degree in physics myself, and I concur. Religion
is not science and never will be. It is far beyond that.

They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science they get.

Fantastic design without designer is a harder thing to buy into than
belief in an Almighty alpha and omega. These atheist types are
trying hard to reply in clever & witty ways, but they remind me
of hayseeds who see priceless works of art as miscellaneous
smearing of paint on a canvas.:)

That's nice, deary.

Now, **** off, you pompous piece of shit.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ******* Extraordinaire
#1557

And some people say there's no God..........
 

Victor Faraday wrote:
"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God. Then
he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he has a
PhD). He has turned extremely religious. Claims there is no way that
'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things on
atomic levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst
scientists.

I've got an undergrad degree in physics myself, and I concur. Religion
is not science and never will be. It is far beyond that.

Oooooh... "far beyond." Over the rainbow, I presume.

(Sigh)

Hand-waving noted.

They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science they get.

Fantastic design without designer is a harder thing to buy into than
belief in an Almighty alpha and omega.

Since when? This "Almighty alpha and omega" must then have an even
*more* "fantastic design" than that which he/she/it/they designed!

These atheist types are

Uh-oh, someone is picking up a clump of straw and giving it humanoid form...

trying hard to reply in clever & witty ways, but they remind me
of hayseeds who see priceless works of art as miscellaneous
smearing of paint on a canvas.:)

And differing aesthetic sensibilities apply exactly how?

655321

And some people say there's no God..........
 

Victor Faraday wrote:
"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God. Then
he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he has a
PhD). He has turned extremely religious. Claims there is no way that
'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things on
atomic levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst
scientists.

I've got an undergrad degree in physics myself, and I concur. Religion
is not science and never will be. It is far beyond that.

They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science they get.

Fantastic design without designer is a harder thing to buy into than
belief in an Almighty alpha and omega. These atheist types are
trying hard to reply in clever & witty ways, but they remind me
of hayseeds who see priceless works of art as miscellaneous
smearing of paint on a canvas.:)

--
Vic


Then, who designed the designer?

--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
__________________________________________________ __________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor http://www.secularity.com/ktayloraz

A.A #1143 a=45, m=23, f=20

Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
__________________________________________________ __________________

And some people say there's no God..........
 

Posted to: alt.atheism, alt.religion.christian, rec.gardens

singing One of these things is not like the others....

655321

And some people say there's no God..........
 

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:36:54 -0700, Gregory Gadow wrote:

"Mark K. Bilbo" wrote:

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:22:06 +0000, Rob Brown wrote:

"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..
Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours.

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand,
and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer
would
show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out,
and it was already gone.

OK, please continue. You had a point to make? What you've written so far
describes something I see variations of all the time at my rural home.
Beautiful, interesting, and natural but not magic or supernatural.
So, how *exactly* do you get a god, whatever that is, from a spider and
it's web? Offer something other than warm, fuzzy prose. I like that stuff
and it has it's place, but not as proof of what you suggest it proves.

It works this way:

1. I saw a spider web.

2. Therefor, god.

/em smacks forehead

It's all so obvious now! How could I have missed the connection?!

Amazing ennit?

--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]

http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC

"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com

And some people say there's a God..........
 

In article 1155836539.036156.36400
@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com, Pastor Kutchie said...

The current on the down line had to be turned off for
4 hours while tranport police looked for the sitter's
head, which a fox had ran off with.

What ever happened to "finders keepers"?

--
-----------
Brian E. Clark

And some people say there's no God..........
 

Victor Faraday wrote:
"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God. Then
he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he has a
PhD). He has turned extremely religious. Claims there is no way that
'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things on
atomic levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst
scientists.

I've got an undergrad degree in physics myself, and I concur. Religion
is not science and never will be. It is far beyond that.

They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science they get.

Fantastic design without designer is a harder thing to buy into than
belief in an Almighty alpha and omega. These atheist types are
trying hard to reply in clever & witty ways,

Too bad you wouldn't answer the replies. Again: assuming a designer,
how do you derive Christian theology?

but they remind me
of hayseeds who see priceless works of art as miscellaneous
smearing of paint on a canvas.:)

Acknowledging paintings as smearings on canvas does not detract from
their beauty.

And some people say there's no God..........
 

In article , Robibnikoff said...

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size
of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old,
building something any civil engineer would
show with great pride.

Lovely story

Now, where's the god?

Weren't you reading closely? Try again:

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size
of a grain of

Yahweh wuz here! Rock 'n roll 4ever! 2006

sand, and likely less than a year old, building something
any civil engineer would show with great pride.


--
-----------
Brian E. Clark

And some people say there's no God..........
 

Dan J.S. wrote:
"Victor Faraday" wrote in message
. ..
Last night just before bed, I looked out over my deck, and there
over the middle of it, was the most magnificent spider web ever
devised, shining in the spotlight. This wonder appeared perfectly
circular and was about the size--and very much resembled-- a
33 rpm phono record, with very precisely placed circular strands
close together with perfect symmetry. I still am not sure how
this little master builder anchored this creation; must've been the hedge
on one side and the chimney on the other, and maybe the deck; but
all this stuff was a good ways off, and the masterpiece was hanging
a good 8 feet over the deck. Another amazing thing is that we had
a heavy rainstorm not 3 hours earlier, so this beauty was designed and
built in less than 3 hours.

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size of a grain of
sand,
and likely less than a year old, building something any civil engineer
would
show with great pride. I got up to pee around 3 a.m., looked out,
and it was already gone.

My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God. Then
he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he has a
PhD). He has turned extremely religious.

Does he follow a specific creed, or does he believe more in something
like Spinoza's god?

Claims there is no way that
'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things on atomic
levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst scientists.
They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science they get. Very
interesting stuff.

And some people say there's no God..........
 

"Brian E. Clark" wrote in message
.net...
In article , Robibnikoff said...

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size
of a grain of sand, and likely less than a year old,
building something any civil engineer would
show with great pride.

Lovely story

Now, where's the god?

Weren't you reading closely? Try again:

So here we have a creature, with a brain maybe the size
of a grain of

Yahweh wuz here! Rock 'n roll 4ever! 2006

sand, and likely less than a year old, building something
any civil engineer would show with great pride.

Bwahaha! :)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ******* Extraordinaire
#1557

And some people say there's no God..........
 

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Victor Faraday
) made the light shine upon us with this:

Fantastic design without designer is a harder thing to buy into than
belief in an Almighty alpha and omega. These atheist types are
trying hard to reply in clever & witty ways, but they remind me
of hayseeds who see priceless works of art as miscellaneous
smearing of paint on a canvas.:)

One must believe something is a design before he can designate a designer.
Take the human body, for example. Perfect in every way. Or is it? If we
were designed, why did the designer build in a self-destruct module known
as the appendix, which serves no purpose other than to become inflamed and
destroy us? And what can be said of a designer whose design fails during
the critical stage of reproduction? A designer (described by worshipers as
perfect in every way) that allows horrible birth defects to happen is
either a monster, or a figment of your imagination.

--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Member: Intensional misspellingg club.

And some people say there's no God..........
 

In article Xns982284D935994vicmanŽ.196.97.136 Uncle Vic writes:

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Victor Faraday
) made the light shine upon us with this:

Fantastic design without designer is a harder thing to buy into than
belief in an Almighty alpha and omega. These atheist types are
trying hard to reply in clever & witty ways, but they remind me
of hayseeds who see priceless works of art as miscellaneous
smearing of paint on a canvas.:)

One must believe something is a design before he can designate a designer.
Take the human body, for example. Perfect in every way. Or is it? If we
were designed, why did the designer build in a self-destruct module known
as the appendix, which serves no purpose other than to become inflamed and
destroy us? And what can be said of a designer whose design fails during
the critical stage of reproduction? A designer (described by worshipers as
perfect in every way) that allows horrible birth defects to happen is
either a monster, or a figment of your imagination.



And beyond that, the Intelligent Design enthusiast needs to justify a moral
Designer who creates the various astonishingly clever mechanisms which
allow organisms to inflict endless misery and death on humanity.

Such examples are endless, but my favorite is the trypanosome which causes
malaria. This organism sports a mechanism whereby it continually shuffles
the proteins on its cell surface, thereby causing the human immune system
to be forever one step behind, playing an endless futile game of catch-up.
This amazingly simple and elegant Design feature has caused the death of
countless millions.

As I say, such examples of intricate, elegant, and seemingly malevolent Design
can be multiplied endlessly; parasitology alone provides many more. It's hard
to see any way out of this dilemma for the ID'er. I suppose some possible
justifications might be:


-- the Designer didn't create THOSE bits, subsequent
evolution did.

-- the Designer's evil twin, the Malicious Designer,
got to muck about in the Workshop.

-- humans deserve it, so what's the problem here?

-- the Designer's ways are mysterious indeed.

-- any other suggestions?



-- cary

And some people say there's no God..........
 

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:33:33 -0500, "Dan J.S."
wrote:

My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God. Then
he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he has a
PhD). He has turned extremely religious. Claims there is no way that
'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things on atomic
levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst scientists.
They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science they get. Very
interesting stuff.



I do not mean to offend any Christians, but I am a Buddhist
practitioner and as a Buddhist I do not believe in god. There is no
creator in Buddhism. Everything derives from the last moment of
itself, moment by moment.

If there was a creator, it would be ourselves. Our parents don't
create us, they give us our bodies, but the mind moves in and out of
vessels when the bodies they occupy die. In Buddhism, everybody dies,
but nobody is dead.

And some people say there's no God..........
 

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:55:21 -0400, "Victor Faraday"
wrote:


"Dan J.S." wrote in message
...

My dad, who is a chemical engineer, had a hard time believing in God. Then
he started studying quantum physics, and other complex sciences (he has a
PhD). He has turned extremely religious. Claims there is no way that
'accidents' created the things that he studies - especially things on
atomic levels. As a matter of fact, this is not so uncommon amongst
scientists.

I've got an undergrad degree in physics myself,

From "Patriot University?"

and I concur. Religion
is not science and never will be. It is far beyond that.

Science is based on facts as far as we can know them. Religion is
based on superstition and wishful thinking.


They somehow get a lot more religious the deeper in science they get.

Fantastic design without designer is a harder thing to buy into than
belief in an Almighty alpha and omega.

Your lack of comprehension is not evidence for a god.

These atheist types are
trying hard to reply in clever & witty ways, but they remind me
of hayseeds who see priceless works of art as miscellaneous
smearing of paint on a canvas.:)

And you remind me of gullible marks who can be fooled into seeing
miscellaneous smearings of paint on canvas (Jackson Pollock, anyone?)
as "priceless works of art."

Idiot.

And some people say there's no God..........
 

On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:55:21 -0400, "Victor Faraday"
wrote:


I've got an undergrad degree in physics myself, and I concur. Religion
is not science and never will be. It is far beyond that.

Again I will bring up my own religious belief; I am a Buddhist
practitioner in the Gelugpa tradition, Mahayana sect, the Greater
Scope. Much of Buddhism is scientific. You cannot have the first
thing. It's nice to think god created the original chicken, but
atheists do not believe in that.


Fantastic design without designer is a harder thing to buy into than
belief in an Almighty alpha and omega. These atheist types are
trying hard to reply in clever & witty ways, but they remind me
of hayseeds who see priceless works of art as miscellaneous
smearing of paint on a canvas.:)

It's a harder thing to buy for YOU, but for me it makes perfect sense.
I don't like being called "these atheist types" because I don't go off
saying a harsh word about your beliefs. I assure you, I grew up in
NYC, I am by no stretch of the imagination a hayseed, and I've stood
in the Philadelphia Museum of Art and thought, look at that
miscellaneous smearing of paint on a canvas. It doesn't make me
ignorant to see art the way I see it. It's way too subjective, so
this is just another generalization you are making.