I'm in central Virginia, zone 7. I'm kind of new at the lawn thing. I planted my first lawn too late this past Spring, and it came in full and lush, but then got invaded by weeds and crabgrass, as I failed to put down preemergent. By now, half the lawn has turned into crabgrass and weeds. There is some grass, however, and I really don't want to retill and sew a new lawn. I'd really like to get rid of the crabgrass and overseed with fescue, but the crabgrass is still green and looks like it's reseeding itself. How should I approach this lawn if I don't want to retill the soil and resew a totally new lawn. I know fall is the prime time to plant grass and I was hoping I could overseed. Will I have to wipe out the crabgrass (which is pretty thick) by using a weedkiller? Is there still time to kill it, seed/overseed and hope for growth? I'd like to do all the proper fertilizing for new grass roots, so it would get nutrients during the winter and come back in the sping. Next spring..if I have grass.I will definitely put down the preemergent!

cb wrote:
I'm in central Virginia, zone 7. I'm kind of new at the lawn thing. I
planted my first lawn too late this past Spring, and it came in full and
lush, but then got invaded by weeds and crabgrass, as I failed to put
down preemergent. By now, half the lawn has turned into crabgrass and
weeds. There is some grass, however, and I really don't want to retill
and sew a new lawn. I'd really like to get rid of the crabgrass and
overseed with fescue, but the crabgrass is still green and looks like
it's reseeding itself. How should I approach this lawn if I don't want
to retill the soil and resew a totally new lawn. I know fall is the
prime time to plant grass and I was hoping I could overseed. Will I have
to wipe out the crabgrass (which is pretty thick) by using a weedkiller?
Is there still time to kill it, seed/overseed and hope for growth? I'd
like to do all the proper fertilizing for new grass roots, so it would
get nutrients during the winter and come back in the sping. Next
spring….if I have grass…I will definitely put down the preemergent!

My suggestion, and what I did last weekend just north of you in
Montgomery Co. I also have a ton of crabgrass, plus weeds. I was not up
for wiping everything out with roundup, tilling, etc. I set my mower at
about 3" and cut on Thursday, then lowered to scalping height, about 2",
and mowed again Saturday. Followed that with a core aerator, and made
numerous passes to get lots of holes everywhere. Then seeded.

I hope to get halfway decent results. I know that slit seeding or power
raking is what the pros do or recommend, I was not up for all that.

The crabgrass will die as soon as the weather cools off. It will then
come back in spring if you don't do the pre-emergence treatment. I hope
to have at least some new fescue grown up in the next few weeks. I'll
report back in a week with my results so far.

David in MD

On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:13:47 -0400, cb wrote:
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I'm in central Virginia, zone 7. I'm kind of new at the lawn thing. I =
planted my first lawn too late this past Spring, and it came in full and =
lush, but then got invaded by weeds and crabgrass, as I failed to put =
down preemergent. By now, half the lawn has turned into crabgrass and =

I'll bet it wasn't failure to use a pre-emergent herbicide, it was failure
to cut the lawn correctly, and probably failure to fertilize
correctly. You may also have a soil problem, possibly compaction or
pH. Your very best "weapon" in keeping down weeds is what
the weed science folks call "canopy closure"... getting the crop so
thickly growing that the weed seeds either don't germinate, or don't
grow.

If you've got clay soils and lots of foot traffic, you probably need
to aerate or till or work in more organic matter (my favorite lazy
method is to spread compost about 1/4" thick on the lawn, several
times a year.) If you've got very sandy soil, more organic matter
is also a good idea.


1) mow the crabgrass... don't let it reseed. Crabgrass is an annual,
so you don't need to hit it with herbicide now. You may or may not
want to use herbicides on your other weeds.

2) get a soil test --
http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/compost/452-129/452-129.html

3) fertilize and lime according to your test results

4) scratch up the soil surface and reseed with good quality grass seed
appropriate for your location, your soil type, and the amount of
sun the area gets. Bluegrass, for instance, likes sun. Fescues
tolerate shade better. Buffalograss likes hot and dry. If you
need to see green fairly instantly, once you've overseeded with
grass seed, overseed again with buckwheat. It's an annual that
won't survive your winters, and it'll add a little organic matter
to the soil next year. Buckwheat comes up fast (about a week)--
bluegrass takes 14-28 days to germinate, depending on temperature.

5) water religiously till the seedlings are pretty well established.
seed that's started to sprout and then dries out is dead seed.

6) consider whether or not you want to use another herbicide now,
and if so, what. Many cannot be used while you're getting grass
going. If you've got some truly nasty weeds like Canada thistle
or quackgrass, I'd probably given them a dose of glyphosate (Roundup
or similar), applied when the plants are actively growing. Most
herbicides work best when the plants are active, not at all if they're
just sitting there waiting for the right conditions to start growing
again. In the herbicide world, Timing is Everything. Stuff like
dandelions or knotweeds I'd forget about this season, or I'd
devote a few evenings after a frustrating day at work to pulling weeds.
Very useful therapy. g

7) Next year, mow properly. Sharpen the mower blades (torn, rather
than cut, grass blades are more prone to infection by various and sundry
fungi, and torn blades brown at the tip and look icky). Mow at the
correct height, and never remove more than about 1/3 of the grass
height at a time. 2-3" is about the right height for bluegrass,
fescues and perennial ryegrass (I feel strongly, however, that
3" is better for most lawn owners... the lawn is more weed-resistant).
You can mow a little shorter in the spring, a little longer in summer's
heat. But don't scalp the grass, and don't remove more than 1/3
at a cutting.

8) Fertilize and lime as soil tests indicate.

Kay

You can also pull out patches of crabgrass with the Ergonica Weed
Twister. On the weedtwister.com website there are photos of the Weed
Twister vs. Crabgrass.

Crabgrass seems to be a bigger problem this year than last. Part of
the problem is that most people don't want to face the challenge of
uprooting this runaway weed!


Kay Lancaster wrote:
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:13:47 -0400, cb wrote:
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I'm in central Virginia, zone 7. I'm kind of new at the lawn thing. I =
planted my first lawn too late this past Spring, and it came in full and =
lush, but then got invaded by weeds and crabgrass, as I failed to put =
down preemergent. By now, half the lawn has turned into crabgrass and =

I'll bet it wasn't failure to use a pre-emergent herbicide, it was failure
to cut the lawn correctly, and probably failure to fertilize
correctly. You may also have a soil problem, possibly compaction or
pH. Your very best "weapon" in keeping down weeds is what
the weed science folks call "canopy closure"... getting the crop so
thickly growing that the weed seeds either don't germinate, or don't
grow.

If you've got clay soils and lots of foot traffic, you probably need
to aerate or till or work in more organic matter (my favorite lazy
method is to spread compost about 1/4" thick on the lawn, several
times a year.) If you've got very sandy soil, more organic matter
is also a good idea.


1) mow the crabgrass... don't let it reseed. Crabgrass is an annual,
so you don't need to hit it with herbicide now. You may or may not
want to use herbicides on your other weeds.

2) get a soil test --
http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/compost/452-129/452-129.html

3) fertilize and lime according to your test results

4) scratch up the soil surface and reseed with good quality grass seed
appropriate for your location, your soil type, and the amount of
sun the area gets. Bluegrass, for instance, likes sun. Fescues
tolerate shade better. Buffalograss likes hot and dry. If you
need to see green fairly instantly, once you've overseeded with
grass seed, overseed again with buckwheat. It's an annual that
won't survive your winters, and it'll add a little organic matter
to the soil next year. Buckwheat comes up fast (about a week)--
bluegrass takes 14-28 days to germinate, depending on temperature.

5) water religiously till the seedlings are pretty well established.
seed that's started to sprout and then dries out is dead seed.

6) consider whether or not you want to use another herbicide now,
and if so, what. Many cannot be used while you're getting grass
going. If you've got some truly nasty weeds like Canada thistle
or quackgrass, I'd probably given them a dose of glyphosate (Roundup
or similar), applied when the plants are actively growing. Most
herbicides work best when the plants are active, not at all if they're
just sitting there waiting for the right conditions to start growing
again. In the herbicide world, Timing is Everything. Stuff like
dandelions or knotweeds I'd forget about this season, or I'd
devote a few evenings after a frustrating day at work to pulling weeds.
Very useful therapy. g

7) Next year, mow properly. Sharpen the mower blades (torn, rather
than cut, grass blades are more prone to infection by various and sundry
fungi, and torn blades brown at the tip and look icky). Mow at the
correct height, and never remove more than about 1/3 of the grass
height at a time. 2-3" is about the right height for bluegrass,
fescues and perennial ryegrass (I feel strongly, however, that
3" is better for most lawn owners... the lawn is more weed-resistant).
You can mow a little shorter in the spring, a little longer in summer's
heat. But don't scalp the grass, and don't remove more than 1/3
at a cutting.

8) Fertilize and lime as soil tests indicate.

Kay

Thanks to all for your fine suggestions! I will take them all into consideration. I was thinking I needed to aerate the soil--it's very clayish. I bought a new lawn mower last month, so I know the blades are good. Before, I was using a mower with an old blade, but I had gotten it sharpened before using it on the newly grown lawn. I had mowed at the suggested height. I think I need to get the soil tested again.
"cb" wrote in message ...
I'm in central Virginia, zone 7. I'm kind of new at the lawn thing. I planted my first lawn too late this past Spring, and it came in full and lush, but then got invaded by weeds and crabgrass, as I failed to put down preemergent. By now, half the lawn has turned into crabgrass and weeds. There is some grass, however, and I really don't want to retill and sew a new lawn. I'd really like to get rid of the crabgrass and overseed with fescue, but the crabgrass is still green and looks like it's reseeding itself. How should I approach this lawn if I don't want to retill the soil and resew a totally new lawn. I know fall is the prime time to plant grass and I was hoping I could overseed. Will I have to wipe out the crabgrass (which is pretty thick) by using a weedkiller? Is there still time to kill it, seed/overseed and hope for growth? I'd like to do all the proper fertilizing for new grass roots, so it would get nutrients during the winter and come back in the sping. Next spring..if I have grass.I will definitely put down the preemergent!

On 28 Sep 2006 21:23:52 -0700, raycruzer wrote:
You can also pull out patches of crabgrass with the Ergonica Weed
Twister. On the weedtwister.com website there are photos of the Weed
Twister vs. Crabgrass.

Crabgrass seems to be a bigger problem this year than last. Part of
the problem is that most people don't want to face the challenge of
uprooting this runaway weed!

Other than for exercise, why bother? It's an annual. Ripping it out
only loosens the soil, leaves a bare spot and sets you up for more
weed seed germination. Keep the crabgrass mowed so it's not seeding,
and it'll die on its own in the fall. Reseed and learn to mow
properly and you'll have the problem licked.

Save the weed extractors for something they're truly useful for, like
tap-rooted perennials. Unless you want the exercise.

Me, I'm a lazy gardener. But a good one.

Kay