roundup in the yard and garden
 

Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?

roundup in the yard and garden
 

In article om,
Ook wrote:

Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?

I'm can't prove it, one way or the other but you may want to look at
http://www.chemicalbodyburden.org/ .

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

roundup in the yard and garden
 

Ook wrote:

Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?


I've used it but now try to choose more 'targeted' methods/chemicals.
That is, if I needed a 'weed' killer for weeds in my lawn, I try to buy
a weed killer. Roundup (and now you have to careful as there are sevrrla
types with additional active ingredients) will affect EVERYTHING with
green growing vegetation. using it on weeds in the lawn for instance, it
will kill the weeds, it will kill the grass if oversparyed or dripped.
If you walk on the location you sprayed, it will kill the grass at the
next step or 2 (walk backwards or work to the side starting AWAY from
the house). I have successfully planted within days of using it. No, I
have not done extensive testing - just anecdotal experience. As to
toxicity - well, being outside exposes you to the harmful rays of the
sun, pollen, stinging insects and mosquitos too. Nothing is completely safe.

what are your plans for the chemical? - maybe someone has alternate
suggestions for you.

Carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)

roundup in the yard and garden
 

what are your plans for the chemical? - maybe someone has alternate
suggestions for you.

Carl


I've been using roundup on a very limited basis for spot week control away
from the garden, and for that it works great. I even used it for large
dandylions in the grass by carefully and sparingly applying it to the weed.
In the end I would probably have been better off just yanking the weed LOL.
It killed a spot about 12 inches around, and took months before anything
grew back - pre-mixed roundup is rather strong, when I mix it myself I mix
it quite a bit weaker then the instructions call for, and it works well
enough.

However....my garden was carved from a nice lush green lawn. I plowed it
over, raked out the grass clumps, and planted. Needless to say, the garden
was infested with grass and clover. This year I've been plowing it once
every couple of weeks, weather permitting, and most of the grass and clover
is dead and gone. It consists of 8 beds, with grass all around and grass
walkways going through it. Last year, these "walkways" overgrew the garden,
and I imagine they provide a nice breeding place for bugs. I'm thinking of
killing the grass because it's a pita to maintain, plus I don't want the bug
breeding grounds. I've been using pieces of cardboard with rocks to hold
them in place on one stretch, and that seems to work, but I'm short on
cardboard. I'm considering roundup, but honestly, don't really want to do
that. Right now, 3 of the beds are planted, and I've got a killer crop of
onions, and some nice potatoes starting.

This is a pic from about a month ago, you can kinda see a few of the beds
and the walkways between them. I'm open to suggestions and advice as to what
to do with the grass paths, I am in no way an expert in these matters :-P

http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2007/...1/DSCF8371.jpg

roundup in the yard and garden
 

Ook wrote:

what are your plans for the chemical? - maybe someone has alternate
suggestions for you.

Carl



I've been using roundup on a very limited basis for spot week control away
from the garden, and for that it works great. I even used it for large
dandylions in the grass by carefully and sparingly applying it to the weed.
In the end I would probably have been better off just yanking the weed LOL.
It killed a spot about 12 inches around, and took months before anything
grew back - pre-mixed roundup is rather strong, when I mix it myself I mix
it quite a bit weaker then the instructions call for, and it works well
enough.

However....my garden was carved from a nice lush green lawn. I plowed it
over, raked out the grass clumps, and planted. Needless to say, the garden
was infested with grass and clover. This year I've been plowing it once
every couple of weeks, weather permitting, and most of the grass and clover
is dead and gone. It consists of 8 beds, with grass all around and grass
walkways going through it. Last year, these "walkways" overgrew the garden,
and I imagine they provide a nice breeding place for bugs. I'm thinking of
killing the grass because it's a pita to maintain, plus I don't want the bug
breeding grounds. I've been using pieces of cardboard with rocks to hold
them in place on one stretch, and that seems to work, but I'm short on
cardboard. I'm considering roundup, but honestly, don't really want to do
that. Right now, 3 of the beds are planted, and I've got a killer crop of
onions, and some nice potatoes starting.

This is a pic from about a month ago, you can kinda see a few of the beds
and the walkways between them. I'm open to suggestions and advice as to what
to do with the grass paths, I am in no way an expert in these matters :-P

http://zootal.no-ip.info/stuff/2007/...1/DSCF8371.jpg



I'm sure others will chime in, but I think many folks use mulch fro
pathways - I dunno what type would be best though - and you may need to
rake out and replace some every year or 2 but I'd bet what yuo rake out
could go in the composter.

Carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)

roundup in the yard and garden
 

Pesticide info can be found he

http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/spring.html
--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"Ook" wrote in message
ps.com...
Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?

roundup in the yard and garden
 

Glyphosate kills by disrupting the shikimic acid pathway in plants. Fungi
also have the same pathway. This could be a bad thing for beneficial fungi.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.



"Ook" wrote in message
ps.com...
Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?

roundup in the yard and garden
 

Ten reasons to "NOT" use roundup.

Compiled by Caroline Cox, Northwest Coalition for Alternatives to
Pesticides- (NCAP)

Roundup, and related herbicides with glyphosate as an active
ingredient, are advertised as products that can "eradicate weeds and
unwanted grasses effectively with a high level of environmental safety."
However, an independent, accurate evaluation of their health and
environmental hazards can draw conclusions very different from those
presented in the ads. Consider these facts:

1. Glyphosate can be persistent. In tests conducted by Monsanto,
manufacturer of
glyphosate-containing herbicides, up to 140 days were required for half
of the applied glyphosate to break down or disappear from agricultural
soils. At harvest, residues of glyphosate were found in lettuce,
carrots, and barley planted one year after glyphosate treatment.
2. Glyphosate can drift. Test conducted by the University of
California, Davis, found that glyphosate drifted up to 400 meters (1300
feet) during ground applications and 800 meters 12600 feet) during
aerial applications.
3. Glyphosate is acutely toxic to humans. Ingesting about 3/4 of a
cup can be lethal. Symptoms include eye and skin irritation, lung
congestion, and erosion of the intestinal tract. Between 1984 and 1990
in California, glyphosate was the third most frequently reported cause
of illness elated to agricultural pesticide use.

4. Glyphosate has shown a wide spectrum of chronic toxicity in
laboratory tests. The National Toxicology Program found that chronic
feeding of glyphosate caused salivary gland lesions, reduced sperm
counts, and a lengthened estrous cycle (how often an individual comes
into heat). Other chronic effects found in laboratory tests include an
increase in the frequency of lethal mutations in fruit flies, an
increase in frequency of pancreas and liver tumors in male rats along
with an increase in the frequency of thyroid tumors in females, and
cataracts. (ne fruit fly study used Roundup; the other studies used
glyphosate.)

5. Roundup contains toxic trade secret ingredients. These include
polyethoxylated tallowamines, causing nausea and diarrhea, and
isopropylamine, causing chemical pneumonia, laryngitis, headache, and
bums.

6. Roundup kills beneficial insects. Tests conducted by !he
International Organization for Biological Control showed that Roundup
caused mortality of live beneficial species: a Thrichgramma, a predatory
mite, a lacewing, a ladybug, and a predatory beetle.

7. Glyphosate is hazardous to earthworms, Tests using New Zealand's
most common earthworm showed that glyphosate, in amounts as low as 1/20
of standard application rates, reduced it- growth and slowed its
development.

8. Roundup inhibits mycorrhizal fungi. Canadian studies have shown
that as little as 1 part per million of Roundup can reduce the growth or
colonization of mycorrhizal fungi.

9. Glyphosate reduces nitrogen fixation. Amounts as small as 2
parts per million have had significant effects, and effects have been
measured up to 120 days after treatment. Nitrogen- fixing bacteria
shown to be impacted by glyphosate include a species found on soybeans
and several species found on clover.

10. Roundup can increase the spread or seventy of plant diseases.
Treatment with roundup increased the severity of Rhizoctonia root rot
in barley, increased the amount and growth of take-all fungus, a wheat
disease), and reduced the ability of bean plants to defend themselves
against anthracnose.

These facts about Roundup are taken From a two-part article about the
health and environmental hazards of glyphosate published in NCAP's
Journal of Pesticide Reform. Copies of the article, with complete
references for all of .the information presented, are available from
NCAP for $2.00. NCAP, PO Box 1391; Eugene, OR 97440; (541) 344-5044.


Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

roundup in the yard and garden
 

"Ook" wrote in message
ps.com...
Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?


Nobody can answer your question. No garden chemical can be properly tested
for human safety. You and your family are the laboratory rats. Go for it.

roundup in the yard and garden
 

On Fri, 18 May 2007 15:11:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Ook" wrote in message
ups.com...
Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?


Nobody can answer your question. No garden chemical can be properly tested
for human safety. You and your family are the laboratory rats. Go for it.

Nonsense. READ THE LABEL carefully and follow the directions
including personal protection equipment and the re-entry period and
you will be fine.

Roundup has been used by professionals and amateurs alike for many
years and has been proven to be safe when used properly.

That being said, there are other methods that entail fewer hazards.
Flaming with a propane weed flamer has few risks if you use common
sense and is one alternative. Flamers are available on eBay for
around $30 including shipping.

JMHO

John

roundup in the yard and garden
 

"John Bachman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2007 15:11:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Ook" wrote in message
oups.com...
Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?


Nobody can answer your question. No garden chemical can be properly tested
for human safety. You and your family are the laboratory rats. Go for it.

Nonsense.

Which specific information in my paragraph do you consider to be nonsense?

roundup in the yard and garden
 

John Bachman wrote:
On Fri, 18 May 2007 15:11:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


"Ook" wrote in message
oups.com...

Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?


Nobody can answer your question. No garden chemical can be properly tested
for human safety. You and your family are the laboratory rats. Go for it.


Nonsense. READ THE LABEL carefully and follow the directions
including personal protection equipment and the re-entry period and
you will be fine.

Roundup has been used by professionals and amateurs alike for many
years and has been proven to be safe when used properly.

That being said, there are other methods that entail fewer hazards.
Flaming with a propane weed flamer has few risks if you use common
sense and is one alternative. Flamers are available on eBay for
around $30 including shipping.

JMHO

John
I bought a 'weed burner' from harbor Freight for $10 .(though I use it
for cleaning and lighting my BBQ pit)


Carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)

roundup in the yard and garden
 

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"John Bachman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2007 15:11:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Ook" wrote in message
oups.com...
Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?


Nobody can answer your question. No garden chemical can be properly tested
for human safety. You and your family are the laboratory rats. Go for it.

Nonsense.

Which specific information in my paragraph do you consider to be nonsense?

JoeSpareBedroom,
leave the man be. It must be reassuring to live in a world where you
know all the answers.

It reminds me of Donald MacDonald from the Isle of Skye, who went to
study at an American university and was living in the dorm with all the
other students. After he had been there a month, his mother telephoned
him.

"And how do you find the American students, Donald?" she asked.

"Mother," he replied, "they're such terrible, noisy people. The one
keeps banging his head on the wall and won't stop and the one on the
other side screams and screams all night."

"Oh Donald! How do you manage to put up with those awful noisy American?"

"Mother, I do nothing. I just ignore them. I just stay here quietly,
playing my bagpipes."

-------

Word to live by.

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum

roundup in the yard and garden
 

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"John Bachman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2007 15:11:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Ook" wrote in message
oups.com...
Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?


Nobody can answer your question. No garden chemical can be properly tested
for human safety. You and your family are the laboratory rats. Go for it.

Nonsense.

Which specific information in my paragraph do you consider to be nonsense?
JoeSpareBedroom,
you are obviously not a man of faith. It says right there on the can
that it is safe, if used as directed. Besides, the company (Monsanto )
must surely have done studies to insure that it is safe and, that it
doesn't still have those nasty side effect that "agent orange" had. Even
the EPA has sighed off on it. I mean Kristy Whitman wouldn't kid you,
right? Well OK, she did say the air was safe for emergency workers
around the "twin towers" and she has messed up a few other things but no
reason to go into that. Anyway, Monsanto is a name of integrity.
Everybody knows what they stand for:-) In twenty years, when he or, a
family member, comes down with cancer, he won't have that gnawing
question of "did I use it as directed"?

Unglaublich.

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

roundup in the yard and garden
 

"Bill Rose" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"John Bachman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2007 15:11:50 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Ook" wrote in message
oups.com...
Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?


Nobody can answer your question. No garden chemical can be properly
tested
for human safety. You and your family are the laboratory rats. Go for
it.

Nonsense.

Which specific information in my paragraph do you consider to be
nonsense?

JoeSpareBedroom,
leave the man be. It must be reassuring to live in a world where you
know all the answers.


What a silly response. I pointed out that we know NOTHING about these
chemicals. If I had all the answers, I'd be happy to share them.

roundup in the yard and garden
 

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

What a silly response. I pointed out that we know NOTHING about these
chemicals. If I had all the answers, I'd be happy to share them.

Silly? Me? Well, probably:-)

I was referring to John's apparent faith in the text of advertising
spewed out by Monsanto to separate lazy "Earth Killers" from their
money. Considering it took three years, AFTER the mutagenic properties
expressed themselves in babies, to get Thalidomide off the market, is it
any wonder that if a product doesn't immediately strike you down stone
dead, it is registered as safe. Meanwhile, Monsanto has gotten an
injunction from the FDA against stevia (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevia ), a plant the you can grow in your
own back yard, because using its' non-caloric sweetening properties
would cut into Monsanto's "NutraSweet" profits.

Like Donald McDonald, John doesn't seem to see the connection between
his actions and the environment around him.

Before anyone starts splashing chemical soup around their yard they
should look at http://www.oztoxics.org/cmwg/body%20burden/load.html .
The real problem is that MAYBE glyphosate is totally safe (and I'm not
conceding that for a second) BUT, does it work synergistically with any
of the other chemicals or mix of chemicals and, GMOs that are now found
in the environment in our post civilized world?

All I want to do is swim in the non-chlorinated end of the pool.

Your buddy, the choir.

You can have the soap-box back now.

Go get'em JoeSpareBedroom.


- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

roundup in the yard and garden
 

"Bill Rose" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

What a silly response. I pointed out that we know NOTHING about these
chemicals. If I had all the answers, I'd be happy to share them.

Silly? Me? Well, probably:-)

I was referring to John's apparent faith in the text of advertising
spewed out by Monsanto to separate lazy "Earth Killers" from their
money.

He was being sarcastic! Maybe even funny.

roundup in the yard and garden
 

On Sat, 19 May 2007 09:12:25 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

What a silly response. I pointed out that we know NOTHING about these
chemicals. If I had all the answers, I'd be happy to share them.

Silly? Me? Well, probably:-)

I was referring to John's apparent faith in the text of advertising
spewed out by Monsanto to separate lazy "Earth Killers" from their
money. Considering it took three years, AFTER the mutagenic properties
expressed themselves in babies, to get Thalidomide off the market, is it
any wonder that if a product doesn't immediately strike you down stone
dead, it is registered as safe. Meanwhile, Monsanto has gotten an
injunction from the FDA against stevia (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevia ), a plant the you can grow in your
own back yard, because using its' non-caloric sweetening properties
would cut into Monsanto's "NutraSweet" profits.

Like Donald McDonald, John doesn't seem to see the connection between
his actions and the environment around him.


No, I pay no attention to Monsanto advertising, or any other for that
matter.

However, I do use some common sense. Roundup has been on the market
for many years and used by professionals and amateurs alike. There
have been no reported problems when the product is used according the
manufacturer's label. Hence, my declaration of Joe's assertion as
nonsense.

I am also quite familiar with the effects of pesticides on the
environment. That familiarity is one of the many requirements for
becoming a licensed pesticide applicator, as I am.

If you go back to my original post on this issue I pointed out that
there are other methods which are just as effective as roundup (or an
other general herbicide) and less problematic.

On my mini-farm I use IPM methods which are using what is most
effective and least invasive, whatever that happens to be. Some of
the techniques are "organic" and others are not. But I always pay
attention to environmental effects, to do otherwise would be a
violation of law, and more importantly, a violation of common sense.

I have not used Roundup or any other general herbicide for many years
but will do so if it is the the appropriate technique for a particular
problem.

John

roundup in the yard and garden
 

In article ,
John Bachman wrote:

On my mini-farm I use IPM methods which are using what is most
effective and least invasive, whatever that happens to be. Some of
the techniques are "organic" and others are not. But I always pay
attention to environmental effects, to do otherwise would be a
violation of law, and more importantly, a violation of common sense.

I have not used Roundup or any other general herbicide for many years
but will do so if it is the the appropriate technique for a particular
problem.

John

John, thank you for your response. I don't want to sound confrontational
but out of a purely academic interest, what would be a situation in
which you would use Roundup? According to Wikipedia,
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup#_note-6 ) "In the US 25 million
applications are used every year on lawns and yards and 18-48 million
pounds are used annually in US agriculture." You haven't used it in
years so, what do you think about putting this much herbicide into the
environment every year?

In footnote 8 (see below) there is a reference to Carolyn Cox, Northwest
Coalition for Alternatives to Pesticides[4]. Do you know of this lady
and her bona fides?
http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/R...tsheet-Cox.htm
In studies of people (mostly farmers) exposed to glyphosate herbicides,
exposure is associated with an increased risk of miscarriages, premature
birth, and the cancer non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.

Glyphosate has been called "extremely persistent" by the U.S.
Environmental Protection Agency, and half lives of over 100 days have
been measured in field tests in Iowa and New York. Glyphosate has been
found in streams following agricultural, urban, and forestry
applications.
-------

As I mentioned before, even if glyphosate is completely safe we are
still looking at an incredible amount of an artificial chemical being
released into the environment with little idea of its' and its' residues
synergistic reactions are on the environment. I know I sound like a
"Cassandra" but I would rather be safe than sorry.

I would appreciate any light you may shed on this issue.

Thank you.

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

roundup in the yard and garden
 

On Sat, 19 May 2007 09:12:25 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

What a silly response. I pointed out that we know NOTHING about these
chemicals. If I had all the answers, I'd be happy to share them.

Silly? Me? Well, probably:-)

I was referring to John's apparent faith in the text of advertising
spewed out by Monsanto to separate lazy "Earth Killers" from their
money. Considering it took three years, AFTER the mutagenic properties
expressed themselves in babies, to get Thalidomide off the market

Thanks to a stubborn FDA physician named Frances Kelsey who bucked
officialdom and the drug companies; who knows how many tragedies she
averted!

http://www.fda.gov/oashi/patrep/nih99.html#kelsey

any wonder that if a product doesn't immediately strike you down stone
dead, it is registered as safe. Meanwhile, Monsanto has gotten an
injunction from the FDA against stevia (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevia ), a plant the you can grow in your
own back yard, because using its' non-caloric sweetening properties
would cut into Monsanto's "NutraSweet" profits.

Not surprising. Monsanto is an international crazed capitalist (as
opposed to progressive capitalist) monster of Biblical proportions.
Somewhere in my back files of Mother Jones Magazine
there's an article about how they forced third world very poor people
to buy water from them -- whereas in the past, they could just get
it from their wells, springs and rivers. That seems like the ultimate
cruelty. If I find the reference, I'll post.

Persephone!

Like Donald McDonald, John doesn't seem to see the connection between
his actions and the environment around him.

Before anyone starts splashing chemical soup around their yard they
should look at http://www.oztoxics.org/cmwg/body%20burden/load.html .
The real problem is that MAYBE glyphosate is totally safe (and I'm not
conceding that for a second) BUT, does it work synergistically with any
of the other chemicals or mix of chemicals and, GMOs that are now found
in the environment in our post civilized world?

All I want to do is swim in the non-chlorinated end of the pool.

Is that the end where they can't tell if you,uh, YOU know...?

Persephone

Your buddy, the choir.

You can have the soap-box back now.

Go get'em JoeSpareBedroom.


- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

roundup in the yard and garden
 

In article , Persephone
wrote:

Thanks to a stubborn FDA physician named Frances Kelsey who bucked
officialdom and the drug companies; who knows how many tragedies she
averted!

http://www.fda.gov/oashi/patrep/nih99.html#kelsey

Thanks for the citation.


Not surprising. Monsanto is an international crazed capitalist (as
opposed to progressive capitalist) monster of Biblical proportions.
Somewhere in my back files of Mother Jones Magazine
there's an article about how they forced third world very poor people
to buy water from them -- whereas in the past, they could just get
it from their wells, springs and rivers. That seems like the ultimate
That seems like the ultimate cruelty. If I find the reference, I'll post.

I think that is a reference to Bechtel taking over the Bolivian water
companies. They even charged Bolivians who collected rainwater. The
movie "Corporation" does a great segment on the affair. The Bolivians
revolted and chased the SOBs out of the country.



All I want to do is swim in the non-chlorinated end of the pool.

Is that the end where they can't tell if you,uh, YOU know...?

No I don't know. Could you tastefully elucidate your drift?

Hasta luego,

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

roundup in the yard and garden
 

Bill Rose wrote:

In article ,
John Bachman wrote:


On my mini-farm I use IPM methods which are using what is most
effective and least invasive, whatever that happens to be. Some of
the techniques are "organic" and others are not. But I always pay
attention to environmental effects, to do otherwise would be a
violation of law, and more importantly, a violation of common sense.

I have not used Roundup or any other general herbicide for many years
but will do so if it is the the appropriate technique for a particular
problem.

John


John, thank you for your response. I don't want to sound confrontational
but out of a purely academic interest, what would be a situation in
which you would use Roundup? According to Wikipedia,
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup#_note-6 ) "In the US 25 million
applications are used every year on lawns and yards and 18-48 million
pounds are used annually in US agriculture." You haven't used it in
years so, what do you think about putting this much herbicide into the
environment every year?

In footnote 8 (see below) there is a reference to Carolyn Cox, Northwest
Coalition for Alternatives to Pesticides[4]. Do you know of this lady
and her bona fides?
http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/R...tsheet-Cox.htm
In studies of people (mostly farmers) exposed to glyphosate herbicides,
exposure is associated with an increased risk of miscarriages, premature
birth, and the cancer non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.

Glyphosate has been called "extremely persistent" by the U.S.
Environmental Protection Agency, and half lives of over 100 days have
been measured in field tests in Iowa and New York. Glyphosate has been
found in streams following agricultural, urban, and forestry
applications.
-------

As I mentioned before, even if glyphosate is completely safe we are
still looking at an incredible amount of an artificial chemical being
released into the environment with little idea of its' and its' residues
synergistic reactions are on the environment. I know I sound like a
"Cassandra" but I would rather be safe than sorry.

I would appreciate any light you may shed on this issue.

Thank you.

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)


We may never know how many people lived healthier, longer lives from
exposure to small amount of toxins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis


Carl


--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)

roundup in the yard and garden
 

"Carl 1 Lucky Texan" wrote in message
. ..
Bill Rose wrote:

In article ,
John Bachman wrote:


On my mini-farm I use IPM methods which are using what is most
effective and least invasive, whatever that happens to be. Some of
the techniques are "organic" and others are not. But I always pay
attention to environmental effects, to do otherwise would be a
violation of law, and more importantly, a violation of common sense.

I have not used Roundup or any other general herbicide for many years
but will do so if it is the the appropriate technique for a particular
problem.

John


John, thank you for your response. I don't want to sound confrontational
but out of a purely academic interest, what would be a situation in which
you would use Roundup? According to Wikipedia, (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup#_note-6 ) "In the US 25 million
applications are used every year on lawns and yards and 18-48 million
pounds are used annually in US agriculture." You haven't used it in years
so, what do you think about putting this much herbicide into the
environment every year? In footnote 8 (see below) there is a reference to
Carolyn Cox, Northwest Coalition for Alternatives to Pesticides[4]. Do
you know of this lady and her bona fides?
http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/R...tsheet-Cox.htm
In studies of people (mostly farmers) exposed to glyphosate herbicides,
exposure is associated with an increased risk of miscarriages, premature
birth, and the cancer non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.

Glyphosate has been called "extremely persistent" by the U.S.
Environmental Protection Agency, and half lives of over 100 days have
been measured in field tests in Iowa and New York. Glyphosate has been
found in streams following agricultural, urban, and forestry
applications.
-------

As I mentioned before, even if glyphosate is completely safe we are still
looking at an incredible amount of an artificial chemical being released
into the environment with little idea of its' and its' residues
synergistic reactions are on the environment. I know I sound like a
"Cassandra" but I would rather be safe than sorry.

I would appreciate any light you may shed on this issue. Thank you.

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)


We may never know how many people lived healthier, longer lives from
exposure to small amount of toxins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis


Carl


True. We may never know, especially since the results of some studies are
dependent on cash, not data.

roundup in the yard and garden
 

In article ,
Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:

We may never know how many people lived healthier, longer lives from
exposure to small amount of toxins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis

Uh-huh. You're into homeopathy, right? Talk about your counter
intuitive. So what your saying is that China did us a favor by shipping
us melamine treated gluten and the Bush Administration is doing us
another favor by releasing the tainted chickens, hogs and, fish for
consumption (Started last week. It's a good time to go organic, at least
for awhile.). Boy do you have a hard one to sell. This sounds like a
nice discussion to have over a bucket of margaritas but the bottom line
is that if, there was an evolutionary advantage to ingesting toxins, we
would have found it in the last four and a half billion years. Toxins
are toxic. Why don't you start with something easy, like selling famine.
It has been shown that if lab animals are occasionally starved, they
live longer. By the way, can I freshen up you salmonella?

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

roundup in the yard and garden
 

Bill Rose wrote:

In article ,
Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:


We may never know how many people lived healthier, longer lives from
exposure to small amount of toxins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis


Uh-huh. You're into homeopathy, right? Talk about your counter
intuitive. So what your saying is that China did us a favor by shipping
us melamine treated gluten and the Bush Administration is doing us
another favor by releasing the tainted chickens, hogs and, fish for
consumption (Started last week. It's a good time to go organic, at least
for awhile.). Boy do you have a hard one to sell. This sounds like a
nice discussion to have over a bucket of margaritas but the bottom line
is that if, there was an evolutionary advantage to ingesting toxins, we
would have found it in the last four and a half billion years. Toxins
are toxic. Why don't you start with something easy, like selling famine.
It has been shown that if lab animals are occasionally starved, they
live longer. By the way, can I freshen up you salmonella?

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

I am not into homeopathy. Just pointing out an alternative view to
'toxicity'. We have highly evolved organs/systems to deal with many
naturally occuring toxins. But much of your post is some kinda rant
that's difficult to follow so.....

you can have the last word.

Carl



--
to reply, change ( .not) to ( .net)

roundup in the yard and garden
 

"Carl 1 Lucky Texan" wrote in message
. ..
Bill Rose wrote:

In article ,
Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:


We may never know how many people lived healthier, longer lives from
exposure to small amount of toxins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis


Uh-huh. You're into homeopathy, right? Talk about your counter intuitive.
So what your saying is that China did us a favor by shipping us melamine
treated gluten and the Bush Administration is doing us another favor by
releasing the tainted chickens, hogs and, fish for consumption (Started
last week. It's a good time to go organic, at least for awhile.). Boy do
you have a hard one to sell. This sounds like a nice discussion to have
over a bucket of margaritas but the bottom line is that if, there was an
evolutionary advantage to ingesting toxins, we would have found it in the
last four and a half billion years. Toxins are toxic. Why don't you start
with something easy, like selling famine. It has been shown that if lab
animals are occasionally starved, they live longer. By the way, can I
freshen up you salmonella?

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

I am not into homeopathy. Just pointing out an alternative view to
'toxicity'.
Carl


That's nice, but for much of the crap we're intentionally exposed to for
profit, nobody knows what the toxic levels really are.

roundup in the yard and garden
 

In article ,
Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:

I am not into homeopathy. Just pointing out an alternative view to
'toxicity'. We have highly evolved organs/systems to deal with many
naturally occuring toxins. But much of your post is some kinda rant
that's difficult to follow so.....

you can have the last word.

Carl

One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor. Y'all come back, hear?
We wasn't shooting at you and your liver.

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

roundup in the yard and garden
 

On Sat, 19 May 2007 14:57:33 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:

In article , Persephone
wrote:

Thanks to a stubborn FDA physician named Frances Kelsey who bucked
officialdom and the drug companies; who knows how many tragedies she
averted!

http://www.fda.gov/oashi/patrep/nih99.html#kelsey

Thanks for the citation.


Not surprising. Monsanto is an international crazed capitalist (as
opposed to progressive capitalist) monster of Biblical proportions.
Somewhere in my back files of Mother Jones Magazine
there's an article about how they forced third world very poor people
to buy water from them -- whereas in the past, they could just get
it from their wells, springs and rivers. That seems like the ultimate
That seems like the ultimate cruelty. If I find the reference, I'll post.

I think that is a reference to Bechtel taking over the Bolivian water
companies. They even charged Bolivians who collected rainwater. The
movie "Corporation" does a great segment on the affair. The Bolivians
revolted and chased the SOBs out of the country.

That may well be; I'm not familar with Bechtel's crimes; will
research.

I *was* talking about Monsanto, however; I well remember the
article in Mother Jones.

A brief reference to Monsanto and water can be found on this site:

http://www.organicconsumers.org/monlink.cfm

which takes you directly to "Millions against Monsanto".
On the right side, go to "If you're talking about", and scroll down to
"Water Privatization".

The crimes of Monsanto on the above link are absolutely stupefying!
Wonder who their fellow-criminals in Congress might be...



All I want to do is swim in the non-chlorinated end of the pool.

Is that the end where they can't tell if you,uh, YOU know...?

No I don't know. Could you tastefully elucidate your drift?

Sometimes the urge is so, uh, urgent that I elucidate until I'm BLUE
in the pool...er...in the face...

Persephone

roundup in the yard and garden
 

"Bill Rose" wrote in message
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

What a silly response. I pointed out that we know NOTHING about these
chemicals. If I had all the answers, I'd be happy to share them.

Silly? Me? Well, probably:-)

I was referring to John's apparent faith in the text of advertising
spewed out by Monsanto to separate lazy "Earth Killers" from their
money. Considering it took three years, AFTER the mutagenic properties
expressed themselves in babies, to get Thalidomide off the market,

???? Bill McBride was the first Doctor to make the connection between
thalidomide and birth defects in 1961 and Persephone's post on Kelsey says
that thalidomide was taken off the market in 1961.

roundup in the yard and garden
 

On Sat, 19 May 2007 14:31:08 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:

In article ,
John Bachman wrote:

On my mini-farm I use IPM methods which are using what is most
effective and least invasive, whatever that happens to be. Some of
the techniques are "organic" and others are not. But I always pay
attention to environmental effects, to do otherwise would be a
violation of law, and more importantly, a violation of common sense.

I have not used Roundup or any other general herbicide for many years
but will do so if it is the the appropriate technique for a particular
problem.

John

John, thank you for your response. I don't want to sound confrontational
but out of a purely academic interest, what would be a situation in
which you would use Roundup? According to Wikipedia,
( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup#_note-6 ) "In the US 25 million
applications are used every year on lawns and yards and 18-48 million
pounds are used annually in US agriculture." You haven't used it in
years so, what do you think about putting this much herbicide into the
environment every year?

I would use some general herbicide (probably Scythe, not Roundup) if I
needed to clear a piece of land which harbored a multitude of weeds,
both grassy and broad-leafed. I may have done so many years ago when
I started my mini-farm, not sure and would have to check my records.

If the land section were small enough I would use my trusty flamer a
tool that is ignored by too many people IMHO.


In footnote 8 (see below) there is a reference to Carolyn Cox, Northwest
Coalition for Alternatives to Pesticides[4]. Do you know of this lady
and her bona fides?
http://www.mindfully.org/Pesticide/R...tsheet-Cox.htm
In studies of people (mostly farmers) exposed to glyphosate herbicides,
exposure is associated with an increased risk of miscarriages, premature
birth, and the cancer non-Hodgkin's lymphoma.

Glyphosate has been called "extremely persistent" by the U.S.
Environmental Protection Agency, and half lives of over 100 days have
been measured in field tests in Iowa and New York. Glyphosate has been
found in streams following agricultural, urban, and forestry
applications.

There have been misuses and overuse in the past. I am not familiar
with the operations of large, commercial farms, just small ones. My
experience is that the small farmers are very aware of the dangers of
overuse of any pesticide and pay close attention to their activities.
The introduction of IPM techniques has dramatically changed small farm
operations for the better.

John

roundup in the yard and garden
 

In article ,
John Bachman wrote:

There have been misuses and overuse in the past. I am not familiar
with the operations of large, commercial farms, just small ones. My
experience is that the small farmers are very aware of the dangers of
overuse of any pesticide and pay close attention to their activities.
The introduction of IPM techniques has dramatically changed small farm
operations for the better.

John

Thanks for the honest answer.

How are small farms doing? Are you doing OK or just hanging on? I
thought small farmers were being run-over by large agri-corporations.
Have you found a niche market or do the corps just take-over the most
lucrative crops and, leave small farmers the marginal ones? Do you think
there is a future for small farms?

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

roundup in the yard and garden
 

In article
,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Bill Rose" wrote in message
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

What a silly response. I pointed out that we know NOTHING about these
chemicals. If I had all the answers, I'd be happy to share them.

Silly? Me? Well, probably:-)

I was referring to John's apparent faith in the text of advertising
spewed out by Monsanto to separate lazy "Earth Killers" from their
money. Considering it took three years, AFTER the mutagenic properties
expressed themselves in babies, to get Thalidomide off the market,

???? Bill McBride was the first Doctor to make the connection between
thalidomide and birth defects in 1961 and Persephone's post on Kelsey says
that thalidomide was taken off the market in 1961.

G'day Love,
shouldn't you be out feeding the chooks instead of coming in like a
bomb-thrower while I'm expounding? OK, OK, I'll take off the lamp shade
and be serious.

Lord, this takes me back a bit. Fortunately, I don't have to rely on the
little grey-cells any mo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide .

Good on Bill McBride. I guess that everyone else was dead to the world.
The long and the short of it is that it should have never gotten to
market in the first place.

"It was sold from 1957 to 1961 in almost 50 countries under at least 40
(different) names . . ."

Then once released in 1957, it took these blobheads 3-4 more years to
figure out that from " 1956 to 1962, approximately 10,000 children were
born with severe malformities, . . .)
OK, so there is a bit of an over lap on the dates. If we just average
it, we are talking about about 7,000 babies with "extreme deformities",
and how many with just your average deformity?

"Before its release inadequate tests were performed to assess the drug's
safety, with catastrophic results for the children of women who had
taken thalidomide during their pregnancies."

Thanks for keeping me on the straight and narrow. Your a good conch.

Scratch y'er crater,

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

roundup in the yard and garden
 

In article , Persephone
wrote:

On Sat, 19 May 2007 14:57:33 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:


http://www.fda.gov/oashi/patrep/nih99.html#kelsey

Thanks for the citation.


Not surprising. Monsanto is an international crazed capitalist (as
opposed to progressive capitalist) monster of Biblical proportions.

In regard to extreme disregard to human suffering I'm not seeing much
difference.


A brief reference to Monsanto and water can be found on this site:

http://www.organicconsumers.org/monlink.cfm

which takes you directly to "Millions against Monsanto".
On the right side, go to "If you're talking about", and scroll down to
"Water Privatization".

The crimes of Monsanto on the above link are absolutely stupefying!
Wonder who their fellow-criminals in Congress might be...

Better than a double expresso.


All I want to do is swim in the non-chlorinated end of the pool.

Is that the end where they can't tell if you,uh, YOU know...?

No I don't know. Could you tastefully elucidate your drift?

Sometimes the urge is so, uh, urgent that I elucidate until I'm BLUE
in the pool...er...in the face...

Persephone

Then there was the time that the traveler called down to the front desk
and said,"I gotta' leak in my sink." The front desk said,"Go ahead."

Persephone, just so's you knows, I'm not going in the pool with YOU;-)

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

roundup in the yard and garden
 

On Sun, 20 May 2007 10:54:18 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:

In article ,
John Bachman wrote:

There have been misuses and overuse in the past. I am not familiar
with the operations of large, commercial farms, just small ones. My
experience is that the small farmers are very aware of the dangers of
overuse of any pesticide and pay close attention to their activities.
The introduction of IPM techniques has dramatically changed small farm
operations for the better.

John

Thanks for the honest answer.

How are small farms doing? Are you doing OK or just hanging on? I
thought small farmers were being run-over by large agri-corporations.
Have you found a niche market or do the corps just take-over the most
lucrative crops and, leave small farmers the marginal ones? Do you think
there is a future for small farms?

I am not really a small farmer. I am a guy who runs a mini-farm as a
hobby. I like my hobbies to pay for themselves so I have some cash
crops for that purpose.

I am now in year two of a three year plan to move to garlic as the
cash crop. It is less labor intensive than some other crops
(raspberries was my start) and there are few growers here (New
Hampshire). So far it is looking pretty good.

I am able to visit small farms throughout the year, folks who are
larger than me and depend upon their farms for their livelihood - most
are organic. They are doing OK, not great but keeping their heads
above water. They find ways to increase revenue and adapt, adapt,
adapt - a great bunch of people.

You will not find their produce in the supermarket, farmer's markets
and stands on their farms are the principal outlets. Sadly, most
people do not experience produce produced locally.

I took some of my peaches to the gym where I work out and gave them
away. The reaction was incredible. Most people have never
experienced a fresh, ripe peach picked off the tree just a couple of
hours ago. They could not believe it and had never visited a farmer's
market. Some of them do now.

Being the sole proprieter and only worker on my parttime mini-farm I
cannot possibly go organic. But I can use IPM and do. Many of the
organic disciples think that I am a heathen because I use chemical
products where I deem them necessary. That's life, but I admit to
annoyance from time to time.

Good luck.

John

roundup in the yard and garden
 

On Sun, 20 May 2007 16:38:59 -0400, John Bachman
wrote:


[...]

I am now in year two of a three year plan to move to garlic as the
cash crop. It is less labor intensive than some other crops
(raspberries was my start) and there are few growers here (New
Hampshire). So far it is looking pretty good.

[...]

Well, I sure hope you can undercut the Chinese g

I could not BELIEVE my eyes, the last few times I bought
garlic at the supermarket -- imported from CHINA??!!!
Is that insane, or what?

Persephone

roundup in the yard and garden
 

On Sun, 20 May 2007 14:29:33 -0700, Persephone wrote:

On Sun, 20 May 2007 16:38:59 -0400, John Bachman
wrote:


[...]

I am now in year two of a three year plan to move to garlic as the
cash crop. It is less labor intensive than some other crops
(raspberries was my start) and there are few growers here (New
Hampshire). So far it is looking pretty good.

[...]

Well, I sure hope you can undercut the Chinese g

I could not BELIEVE my eyes, the last few times I bought
garlic at the supermarket -- imported from CHINA??!!!
Is that insane, or what?

Yes, it is true. Most supermarket garlic is imported from China
impacting the California garlic growers.

No, I will not undercut them. But I will produce a better product.

I think that this is another niche that small time farmers can fill
but people have to get in the habit of buying from farmers markets.

John


John

roundup in the yard and garden
 

"John Bachman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 May 2007 14:29:33 -0700, Persephone wrote:

On Sun, 20 May 2007 16:38:59 -0400, John Bachman
wrote:


[...]

I am now in year two of a three year plan to move to garlic as the
cash crop. It is less labor intensive than some other crops
(raspberries was my start) and there are few growers here (New
Hampshire). So far it is looking pretty good.

[...]

Well, I sure hope you can undercut the Chinese g

I could not BELIEVE my eyes, the last few times I bought
garlic at the supermarket -- imported from CHINA??!!!
Is that insane, or what?

Yes, it is true. Most supermarket garlic is imported from China
impacting the California garlic growers.

No, I will not undercut them. But I will produce a better product.


Good, because the garlic's getting pretty ugly lately.

roundup in the yard and garden
 

"Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan" wrote in
6.121:

Pambo forced Ook to post this at: rec.gardens:

Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?

Roundup has been my friend for many, many years. One has to be very
careful with it. Go exactly by the directions. The hardest for me is
finding a day with absolutely no breeze. The drift from the spray can
float around anywhere, including open windows. I use it on those PITA
violets but I don't spray them with it. I put some Roundup in a
styrofoam cup and brush a bit on the offending plant with one of those
cheapie paint sponge brushes. The brushes are dirt cheap and I pitch
the cup and brush afterwards. Good luck.

Michael


VIOLET SLAYER!!! UNCLEAN!! UNCLEAN!!!

Oh, Michael, how can you kill those marvelous little things? I'll have
to introduce you to Tincture of Violet and eating the flowers in your
salads which is so cool that people are in awe when they see them. And
then you can press/dry the flowers and make lovely gifts like candles and
stationary and soaps. Plus you can sugar the flowers for cake
decoration. It's a wonderful plant! And you kill them. Shame.
Shammmmmmmmmmmmmme. ;P

roundup in the yard and garden
 

"FragileWarrior" wrote in message
...
"Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan" wrote in
6.121:

Pambo forced Ook to post this at: rec.gardens:

Does anyone have any information on the usage of roundup in the yard
and garden? The information on the container indicates that it is not
toxic to most life forms. Other then eye irritation, it doesn't seem
to bother anything but plants, and even then it decomposes rapidly.
The bottle says you can spray, and then 3 days later plant a garden.

So - how good/bad/toxic is the stuff? Is it a good way to get rid of
unwanted plants, or should it be avoided at all costs?

Roundup has been my friend for many, many years. One has to be very
careful with it. Go exactly by the directions. The hardest for me is
finding a day with absolutely no breeze. The drift from the spray can
float around anywhere, including open windows. I use it on those PITA
violets but I don't spray them with it. I put some Roundup in a
styrofoam cup and brush a bit on the offending plant with one of those
cheapie paint sponge brushes. The brushes are dirt cheap and I pitch
the cup and brush afterwards. Good luck.

Michael


VIOLET SLAYER!!! UNCLEAN!! UNCLEAN!!!

Oh, Michael, how can you kill those marvelous little things? I'll have
to introduce you to Tincture of Violet and eating the flowers in your
salads which is so cool that people are in awe when they see them. And
then you can press/dry the flowers and make lovely gifts like candles and
stationary and soaps. Plus you can sugar the flowers for cake
decoration. It's a wonderful plant! And you kill them. Shame.
Shammmmmmmmmmmmmme. ;P


The same twits who spray for every damned "weed" would probably also have
the biggest mouths if they discovered their drinking water was measurably
and dangerously contaminated. They probably blame everyone but themselves.
It's interesting that compared to 30-40 years ago, homes and golf courses
are now the primary point sources for the majority of groundwater pollution.
These are big words and inconvenient concepts, though, so it's hard for
twits to even think about them.

roundup in the yard and garden
 

"Michael "Dog3" Lonergan" wrote in message
.121...
Pambo forced "JoeSpareBedroom" to post this at:
rec.gardens:


The same twits who spray for every damned "weed" would probably also
have the biggest mouths if they discovered their drinking water was
measurably and dangerously contaminated. They probably blame everyone
but themselves. It's interesting that compared to 30-40 years ago,
homes and golf courses are now the primary point sources for the
majority of groundwater pollution. These are big words and
inconvenient concepts, though, so it's hard for twits to even think
about them.

I'm not sure who or what you are responding to. Are you accusing me of
being a twit that sprays for every weed?

Michael


I know you contribute a lot of intelligent commentary, especially in the
food NG, but in this one regard (chemicals), you are being a twit. Sorry,
Michael. It's a cop out to say "I just use a small amount of chemicals". As
I mentioned above, homeowners are one of the two largest sources of
groundwater pollution. That's bad, and there is no room to debate it. Your
kitchen is yours to spend a fortune on. But outdoors, the things you do
don't stay on your property.