On Sep 4, 11:59?am, zxcvbob wrote:

When I had a 3/4 acre yard, I just had an open heap that I used for
compost, and every once it a while I would climb up in it with a big
rototiller to stir it up good.

That's a perfectly fine method for composting but not desirous for the
typical home gardener as it's not very attractive but also that method
attracts all manner of vermin... generally livestock farmers use your
"pit" method to compost the large quantities of manure and straw they
muck out of the barns and stables.

On Sep 5, 12:11?pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Sheldon" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Sep 5, 5:59?am, Janet Baraclough
wrote:
The message
from "Dave" contains these words:

An above ground compost bin is okay for warm climates. Since you're in
the
UK, forget it.

Nonsense. Above-ground compost bins are used successfully by
gardeners in every part of the UK.

UKers must have a strange sense of success.

Above ground bins are never okay, above ground bins don't compost...
rotting organic matter is not composting. Organisms only found in the
earth must be present and in abundance and especially earthworms for
composting. Your above ground bins are making putrid slime, not
humus. You should be happy to have cool weather, your slop pots won't
stink so badly.

Just a guess, but I wonder if what she calls an above ground bin is exactly
what you and I are using. Let's find out.

Janet, this sits on the ground. Something similar could be made from any
number of other materials. Does this fit your general idea of an above
ground bin?http://www.composters.com/compost-bi...aver_17_1.php-

Following this thread an "above ground composter" evolved into the
rotory type, a bin with no ground contact whatsoever. Actually if the
bin provides the organic matter with any ground contact it is not an
above ground composter... I really don't think any normal brained
person would argue whether the organic matter sits directly on the
ground or in a depression... it's either "above ground" (as in
suspended)or it's not.

Sheldon wrote in news:1189008489.730290.31760
@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:


Above ground bins are never okay, above ground bins don't compost...
rotting organic matter is not composting. Organisms only found in the
earth must be present and in abundance and especially earthworms for
composting. Your above ground bins are making putrid slime, not
humus. You should be happy to have cool weather, your slop pots won't
stink so badly.

You really need to bone up on composting. I had a triple bin above ground
composter that worked just fine. No smell, no slime, temps up to 160+F
during active composting with earthworms and other assorted munchy
organisms after cool down, too.

"FragileWarrior" wrote in message
...
Sheldon wrote in news:1189008489.730290.31760
@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:


Above ground bins are never okay, above ground bins don't compost...
rotting organic matter is not composting. Organisms only found in the
earth must be present and in abundance and especially earthworms for
composting. Your above ground bins are making putrid slime, not
humus. You should be happy to have cool weather, your slop pots won't
stink so badly.

You really need to bone up on composting. I had a triple bin above ground
composter that worked just fine. No smell, no slime, temps up to 160+F
during active composting with earthworms and other assorted munchy
organisms after cool down, too.


Sheldon's just being weird. (So what's new?)

This is what normal people envision when they think of above-ground
composters:
http://www.composters.com/compost-bi...e-bin_16_1.php
and
http://www.composters.com/compost-bi...saver_17_1.php
and
http://www.composters.com/compost-bi...k-bin_91_1.php
and
http://www.composters.com/compost-bi...anion_15_1.php
etc etc.....

Sheldon's pretending that above ground composters all look like this or
similar. No soil contact:
http://www.composters.com/compost-tu...mbler_35_2.php

Once our definitions match, there will be no further problems with this
discussion.

Sheldon wrote:
On Sep 4, 11:59?am, zxcvbob wrote:
When I had a 3/4 acre yard, I just had an open heap that I used for
compost, and every once it a while I would climb up in it with a big
rototiller to stir it up good.

That's a perfectly fine method for composting but not desirous for the
typical home gardener as it's not very attractive but also that method
attracts all manner of vermin... generally livestock farmers use your
"pit" method to compost the large quantities of manure and straw they
muck out of the barns and stables.



IIRC, the person who started this discussion had an acre. So an open
heap should work fine for that. The pile gets hot. Then when it cools
off (or too much rain douses it) tear it all down with the rototiller
and then pile it back up again with a pitchfork. When you add something
nasty to the pile, bury it a little. The only vermin I had a problem
with was fire ants.

For a typical home gardener, two small piles right next to each other,
enclosed on 3 sides with wood pallets on edge to make an "E" (someone
mentioned this a day or two ago) is the best system I've found. When
you're just getting it started, make the pile in one side and then every
once in a while turn it good by forking the compost over to the other side.

Best regards,
Bob

"Sheldon" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 5, 12:11?pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Sheldon" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Sep 5, 5:59?am, Janet Baraclough
wrote:
The message
from "Dave" contains these words:

An above ground compost bin is okay for warm climates. Since
you're in
the
UK, forget it.

Nonsense. Above-ground compost bins are used successfully by
gardeners in every part of the UK.

UKers must have a strange sense of success.

Above ground bins are never okay, above ground bins don't compost...
rotting organic matter is not composting. Organisms only found in the
earth must be present and in abundance and especially earthworms for
composting. Your above ground bins are making putrid slime, not
humus. You should be happy to have cool weather, your slop pots won't
stink so badly.

Just a guess, but I wonder if what she calls an above ground bin is
exactly
what you and I are using. Let's find out.

Janet, this sits on the ground. Something similar could be made from any
number of other materials. Does this fit your general idea of an above
ground
bin?http://www.composters.com/compost-bi...aver_17_1.php-

Following this thread an "above ground composter" evolved into the
rotory type, a bin with no ground contact whatsoever. Actually if the
bin provides the organic matter with any ground contact it is not an
above ground composter... I really don't think any normal brained
person would argue whether the organic matter sits directly on the
ground or in a depression... it's either "above ground" (as in
suspended)or it's not.

A "normal brained" person would have actually read Janet's entire post
(the part that you snipped), where she describes exactly what she's talking
about in reference to her homemade bins using pallets. Additionally, before
going off and attributing a misperception to some other part of the thread,
one might have googled what a "dalek" composter is, even if they had made no
connection to Dr. Who.

http://www.pembroke-dock.co.uk/Rober...Daleks%203.JPG

Additionally, your narrow definitions concerning composting are beyond
curmudgeonly. Decomposition of organic matter has several intersecting words
to describe the state of the decomposition, which some people might use
interchangeably. The techniques might vary, the results may vary with some
drawbacks, but it's all good to avoid throwing organic matter in the
landfill.
Nature will continue the process, no matter what state the organic
material has achieved or what words a mere human uses to describe it.

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "JoeSpareBedroom" contains these words:


Just a guess, but I wonder if what she calls an above ground bin is
exactly
what you and I are using. Let's find out.

Janet, this sits on the ground. Something similar could be made from any
number of other materials. Does this fit your general idea of an above
ground bin?
http://www.composters.com/compost-bi...saver_17_1.php

Yes. But what a price!!!!!


I know. But, I'm referring to a generic category of composters. The links
were to illustrate that category.

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "JoeSpareBedroom" contains these words:


Just a guess, but I wonder if what she calls an above ground bin is
exactly
what you and I are using. Let's find out.

Janet, this sits on the ground. Something similar could be made from any
number of other materials. Does this fit your general idea of an above
ground bin?
http://www.composters.com/compost-bi...saver_17_1.php

Yes. But what a price!!!!!

Here's the models supplied by local councils (prices in sterling).

http://www.wasteawarescotland.org.uk...mpost_camp.asp

That's a great site for a variety of composting choices, but will surely
twist "someone's" knickers........... OMG, the Green Cone doesn't produce
humus!

http://www.wasteawarescotland.org.uk...mpost_cone.asp

Here's pallet compost bins

http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl...Imag es&gbv=2

Janet.

On Sep 5, 1:14?pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"FragileWarrior" wrote in message

...

Sheldon wrote in news:1189008489.730290.31760
@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

Above ground bins are never okay, above ground bins don't compost...
rotting organic matter is not composting. Organisms only found in the
earth must be present and in abundance and especially earthworms for
composting. Your above ground bins are making putrid slime, not
humus. You should be happy to have cool weather, your slop pots won't
stink so badly.

You really need to bone up on composting. I had a triple bin above ground
composter that worked just fine. No smell, no slime, temps up to 160+F
during active composting with earthworms and other assorted munchy
organisms after cool down, too.

Sheldon's just being weird. (So what's new?)

This is what normal people envision when they think of above-ground
composters:http://www.composters.com/compost-bi...e-bin_16_1.php
andhttp://www.composters.com/compost-bins/soilmaker--soilsaver_17_1.php
andhttp://www.composters.com/compost-bins/bio-stack-bin_91_1.php
andhttp://www.composters.com/compost-bins/presto-hoop-companion_15_1.php
etc etc.....

Actually by your own link there is no such nomenclature as "above
ground" composter... again, for the THICK HEADED, this thread evolved
into calling a tumbler type composter an above ground composter.

You're weird (actrually you're an ignoranus), in that you and your
cohorts are pretending to be erudite while in fact you're functionally
illiterate.

zxcvbob wrote:
Sheldon wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:
When I had a 3/4 acre yard, I just had an open heap that I used for
compost, and every once it a while I would climb up in it with a big
rototiller to stir it up good.

That's a perfectly fine method for composting but not desirous for the
typical home gardener as it's not very attractive but also that method
attracts all manner of vermin... generally livestock farmers use your
"pit" method to compost the large quantities of manure and straw they
muck out of the barns and stables.

IIRC, the person who started this discussion had an acre. So an open
heap should work fine for that. The pile gets hot. Then when it cools
off (or too much rain douses it) tear it all down with the rototiller
and then pile it back up again with a pitchfork. When you add something
nasty to the pile, bury it a little. The only vermin I had a problem
with was fire ants.

For a typical home gardener, two small piles right next to each other,
enclosed on 3 sides with wood pallets on edge to make an "E" (someone
mentioned this a day or two ago) is the best system I've found. When
you're just getting it started, make the pile in one side and then every
once in a while turn it good by forking the compost over to the other side.

I've found that small piles/heaps don't work very well for the same
reason that pallets don't, they don't contain the generated heat very
well, in fact hardly at all (that's why my neighbor's turkey wire
contraption didn't work). What you describe that you have is a rather
large heap, it would be if you need to go at it with a BIG
rototiller... no one takes a BIG rototiller and CLIMBS UP into a small
pile about a cubic yard... you must have had a small mountain there...
too bad as you say you HAD it, would be nice to see a picture, perhaps
you do have one, please post it if you do. Really all I'm saying is
that your system will work rather well but it's not very aesthetic by
many standards. The typical home gardener buys one of the pretty
commercially manufactured bins, but unfortunately there are so many
designs and most folks just getting into composting haven't a clue as
to which. Again, the rotary type (above ground) suck... but they sell
because lots of folk are really attracted to things that whirl and
spin, especially if they get to crank the handle... they're blooming
imbeciles... imagine how many more they'd sell if they made them with
blinking colored lights. There are plenty of blooming imbeciles
posting to this thread too, I don't believe for a second that they own
those composters they talk about, anyone can point to an image on a
web site and say that's what I've been using forever, especially after
the fact that someone mentioned it's the one they use showed it on the
same exact site... they do a lot of lip flapping but they don't show
an actual photo of their actual composter on their actual property, so
far I think I'm the only one here who's posted a photo of the actual
composter on his actual property. Notice how quiet are all those who
do actually post photos of what they say they are about, they know...
res ipsa loquitur.
..

On Sep 5, 1:49?pm, "fat daddy" wrote:
"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message

...





The message
from "JoeSpareBedroom" contains these words:

Just a guess, but I wonder if what she calls an above ground bin is
exactly
what you and I are using. Let's find out.

Janet, this sits on the ground. Something similar could be made from any
number of other materials. Does this fit your general idea of an above
ground bin?
http://www.composters.com/compost-bi...saver_17_1.php

Yes. But what a price!!!!!

Here's the models supplied by local councils (prices in sterling).

http://www.wasteawarescotland.org.uk...mpost_camp.asp

That's a great site for a variety of composting choices, but will surely
twist "someone's" knickers........... OMG, the Green Cone doesn't produce
humus!

http://www.wasteawarescotland.org.uk...mpost_cone.asp

Here's pallet compost bins

http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl...t+bin&btnG=Sea...

Wow, is that your yard, is that your family... oughta change your
handle to fat daddy. hehe

Why are you showing pictures you lifted off the net as proof (of what
I have no idea), any common thief can do that... besides the one on
your head what's your point?

Which fat daddy is you: http://tinyurl.com/3claww

A lot of effort for nothing, those stupid thingies ain't gonna do
anything but stink... but yoose all sure can use the exercise.


http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?im...G%26ie%3DUTF-8

Sheldon wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:
Sheldon wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:
When I had a 3/4 acre yard, I just had an open heap that I used for
compost, and every once it a while I would climb up in it with a big
rototiller to stir it up good.
That's a perfectly fine method for composting but not desirous for the
typical home gardener as it's not very attractive but also that method
attracts all manner of vermin... generally livestock farmers use your
"pit" method to compost the large quantities of manure and straw they
muck out of the barns and stables.
IIRC, the person who started this discussion had an acre. So an open
heap should work fine for that. The pile gets hot. Then when it cools
off (or too much rain douses it) tear it all down with the rototiller
and then pile it back up again with a pitchfork. When you add something
nasty to the pile, bury it a little. The only vermin I had a problem
with was fire ants.

For a typical home gardener, two small piles right next to each other,
enclosed on 3 sides with wood pallets on edge to make an "E" (someone
mentioned this a day or two ago) is the best system I've found. When
you're just getting it started, make the pile in one side and then every
once in a while turn it good by forking the compost over to the other side.

I've found that small piles/heaps don't work very well for the same
reason that pallets don't, they don't contain the generated heat very
well, in fact hardly at all (that's why my neighbor's turkey wire
contraption didn't work). What you describe that you have is a rather
large heap, it would be if you need to go at it with a BIG
rototiller... no one takes a BIG rototiller and CLIMBS UP into a small
pile about a cubic yard... you must have had a small mountain there...
too bad as you say you HAD it, would be nice to see a picture, perhaps
you do have one, please post it if you do. Really all I'm saying is
that your system will work rather well but it's not very aesthetic by
many standards. The typical home gardener buys one of the pretty
commercially manufactured bins, but unfortunately there are so many
designs and most folks just getting into composting haven't a clue as
to which. Again, the rotary type (above ground) suck... but they sell
because lots of folk are really attracted to things that whirl and
spin, especially if they get to crank the handle... they're blooming
imbeciles... imagine how many more they'd sell if they made them with
blinking colored lights. There are plenty of blooming imbeciles
posting to this thread too, I don't believe for a second that they own
those composters they talk about, anyone can point to an image on a
web site and say that's what I've been using forever, especially after
the fact that someone mentioned it's the one they use showed it on the
same exact site... they do a lot of lip flapping but they don't show
an actual photo of their actual composter on their actual property, so
far I think I'm the only one here who's posted a photo of the actual
composter on his actual property. Notice how quiet are all those who
do actually post photos of what they say they are about, they know...
res ipsa loquitur.
.



I wish I had a picture cuz it was a thing of beauty; brown gold. But
that was 15 or 16 years ago. Before digital cameras. It was probably
several cubic yards, and that was after it was finished settling. I
started out with a truck load of mushroom compost direct from the
mushroom farm in Madisonville. It was still too hot to use when I got
it, so dumped it in a pile and added to it: weeds, leaves, kitchen
scraps, shredded paper, and the neighbor's grass clippings. A truck
load of spoiled hay and manure (don't remember if it was horse or cow.)
The occasional dead bird. You know, the usual stuff.

I have a small pile that I just started a few days ago. It's mostly
weeds and paper. I've been peeing on it to get it heating up good.
(Seriously. It supplies nitrogen to the compost, and it saves fresh
water) It has shrunk about 30% already. I don't have a container for
it, but I might build one out of pallets pretty soon. It's at the back
corner of the yard, hidden from view by a big maple tree.

Because it doesn't trap the heat very well, I don't know if it will kill
all the weed seeds. If I can keep turning them it towards the middle
while it's hot it will kill most of them. The ground is so full of weed
seeds already I'm not sure that it really matters.

Bob

On Sep 5, 11:27?pm, zxcvbob wrote:
Sheldon wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:
Sheldon wrote:
zxcvbob wrote:
When I had a 3/4 acre yard, I just had an open heap that I used for
compost, and every once it a while I would climb up in it with a big
rototiller to stir it up good.
That's a perfectly fine method for composting but not desirous for the
typical home gardener as it's not very attractive but also that method
attracts all manner of vermin... generally livestock farmers use your
"pit" method to compost the large quantities of manure and straw they
muck out of the barns and stables.
IIRC, the person who started this discussion had an acre. So an open
heap should work fine for that. The pile gets hot. Then when it cools
off (or too much rain douses it) tear it all down with the rototiller
and then pile it back up again with a pitchfork. When you add something
nasty to the pile, bury it a little. The only vermin I had a problem
with was fire ants.

For a typical home gardener, two small piles right next to each other,
enclosed on 3 sides with wood pallets on edge to make an "E" (someone
mentioned this a day or two ago) is the best system I've found. When
you're just getting it started, make the pile in one side and then every
once in a while turn it good by forking the compost over to the other side.

I've found that small piles/heaps don't work very well for the same
reason that pallets don't, they don't contain the generated heat very
well, in fact hardly at all (that's why my neighbor's turkey wire
contraption didn't work). What you describe that you have is a rather
large heap, it would be if you need to go at it with a BIG
rototiller... no one takes a BIG rototiller and CLIMBS UP into a small
pile about a cubic yard... you must have had a small mountain there...
too bad as you say you HAD it, would be nice to see a picture, perhaps
you do have one, please post it if you do. Really all I'm saying is
that your system will work rather well but it's not very aesthetic by
many standards. The typical home gardener buys one of the pretty
commercially manufactured bins, but unfortunately there are so many
designs and most folks just getting into composting haven't a clue as
to which. Again, the rotary type (above ground) suck... but they sell
because lots of folk are really attracted to things that whirl and
spin, especially if they get to crank the handle... they're blooming
imbeciles... imagine how many more they'd sell if they made them with
blinking colored lights. There are plenty of blooming imbeciles
posting to this thread too, I don't believe for a second that they own
those composters they talk about, anyone can point to an image on a
web site and say that's what I've been using forever, especially after
the fact that someone mentioned it's the one they use showed it on the
same exact site... they do a lot of lip flapping but they don't show
an actual photo of their actual composter on their actual property, so
far I think I'm the only one here who's posted a photo of the actual
composter on his actual property. Notice how quiet are all those who
do actually post photos of what they say they are about, they know...
res ipsa loquitur.
.

I wish I had a picture cuz it was a thing of beauty; brown gold. But
that was 15 or 16 years ago. Before digital cameras. It was probably
several cubic yards, and that was after it was finished settling. I
started out with a truck load of mushroom compost direct from the
mushroom farm in Madisonville. It was still too hot to use when I got
it, so dumped it in a pile and added to it: weeds, leaves, kitchen
scraps, shredded paper, and the neighbor's grass clippings. A truck
load of spoiled hay and manure (don't remember if it was horse or cow.)
The occasional dead bird. You know, the usual stuff.

I have a small pile that I just started a few days ago. It's mostly
weeds and paper. I've been peeing on it to get it heating up good.
(Seriously. It supplies nitrogen to the compost, and it saves fresh
water) It has shrunk about 30% already.

Your pile or your peepee? LOL

I don't have a container for
it, but I might build one out of pallets pretty soon. It's at the back
corner of the yard, hidden from view by a big maple tree.

Because it doesn't trap the heat very well, I don't know if it will kill
all the weed seeds. If I can keep turning them it towards the middle
while it's hot it will kill most of them. The ground is so full of weed
seeds already I'm not sure that it really matters.

I think the wood pallets can be made to work if completely encased in
decent weight black poly sheeting... and a lid fitted, also wrapped
with poly. Many years ago I also built a compost bin of lumber from
taken apart pallets, I also had built many a pile right on the ground
and in pits dug about two feet deep and heaped high. I even stupidly
purchased a tumbler type way back then. But I've been using the bin I
have now more than ten years and in every way it's the best... the
hardest work I do is treck out the 400 feet to dump stuff in it... I
just a couple of weeks ago relocated it to the other side of my garden
so now it's about 50 feet closer.

Sheldon

"Sheldon" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 5, 1:14?pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"FragileWarrior" wrote in message

...

Sheldon wrote in news:1189008489.730290.31760
@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

Above ground bins are never okay, above ground bins don't compost...
rotting organic matter is not composting. Organisms only found in the
earth must be present and in abundance and especially earthworms for
composting. Your above ground bins are making putrid slime, not
humus. You should be happy to have cool weather, your slop pots won't
stink so badly.

You really need to bone up on composting. I had a triple bin above
ground
composter that worked just fine. No smell, no slime, temps up to 160+F
during active composting with earthworms and other assorted munchy
organisms after cool down, too.

Sheldon's just being weird. (So what's new?)

This is what normal people envision when they think of above-ground
composters:http://www.composters.com/compost-bi...e-bin_16_1.php
andhttp://www.composters.com/compost-bins/soilmaker--soilsaver_17_1.php
andhttp://www.composters.com/compost-bins/bio-stack-bin_91_1.php
andhttp://www.composters.com/compost-bins/presto-hoop-companion_15_1.php
etc etc.....

Actually by your own link there is no such nomenclature as "above
ground" composter... again, for the THICK HEADED, this thread evolved
into calling a tumbler type composter an above ground composter.

You're weird (actrually you're an ignoranus), in that you and your
cohorts are pretending to be erudite while in fact you're functionally
illiterate.



I don't care what anyone else calls these composters. The only correct
definitions are mine, and there is no possible way to debate that absolute
truth.

Get used to it.

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Sheldon" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 5, 1:14?pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"FragileWarrior" wrote in message

...

Sheldon wrote in news:1189008489.730290.31760
@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

Above ground bins are never okay, above ground bins don't compost...
rotting organic matter is not composting. Organisms only found in the
earth must be present and in abundance and especially earthworms for
composting. Your above ground bins are making putrid slime, not
humus. You should be happy to have cool weather, your slop pots won't
stink so badly.

You really need to bone up on composting. I had a triple bin above
ground
composter that worked just fine. No smell, no slime, temps up to 160+F
during active composting with earthworms and other assorted munchy
organisms after cool down, too.

Sheldon's just being weird. (So what's new?)

This is what normal people envision when they think of above-ground
composters:http://www.composters.com/compost-bi...te-bin_16_1.ph
p
andhttp://www.composters.com/compost-bins/soilmaker--soilsaver_17_1.php
andhttp://www.composters.com/compost-bins/bio-stack-bin_91_1.php
andhttp://www.composters.com/compost-bins/presto-hoop-companion_15_1.php
etc etc.....

Actually by your own link there is no such nomenclature as "above
ground" composter... again, for the THICK HEADED, this thread evolved
into calling a tumbler type composter an above ground composter.

You're weird (actrually you're an ignoranus), in that you and your
cohorts are pretending to be erudite while in fact you're functionally
illiterate.



I don't care what anyone else calls these composters. The only correct
definitions are mine, and there is no possible way to debate that absolute
truth.

Get used to it.

The thing I don't understand (among others) is that my compost heap just
disappears into the soil. It is only 1 1/2 feet tall and I never reach
the top of it with my kitchen scraps. ?? I think I need to take my
kitchen scraps up to the garden this winter and cut out the middle man.
--
FB - FFF

Billy

Get up, stand up, stand up for yor rights.
Get up, stand up, Don't give up the fight.
- Bob Marley