On Sep 12, 10:29?pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Sheldon" wrote in message

ps.com...





wrote:
water is softened with salt and the Na+ can be really high in areas
with hard water. hard on plants. Ingrid

Nonsense... you make it sound like softeners produce brine. A
properly functioning water softener puts no more salt into water than
exists in the water before softening, in fact water softeners usually
produce water with a lower salt content than contaned by the hard
water before softening, in removing minerals it also removes salt.
The salt used in the softening process does not enter the domestic
water supply, that salt is eliminated in another direction as grey
water. If any salt does end up in dometic water it is so miniscule a
concentration as to be negligible and has absolutely no more effect on
plants than rain water... there is more salt contained in bottled
water. There is plenty of info available on this topic.

http://www.wqa.org/sitelogic.cfm?ID=431

Maybe, but softened water sure tastes like crap. Of course, this statement
is based only on my experience in about 15 homes, two of which just had
softeners installed by professionals.

Well, then you can only discuss those two homes with softeners... I've
no idea how those other thirteen homes fit into this discussion about
water softeners since those have none... perhaps you thought by
injecting larger numbers, regardless how meaningless, you'd appear
more of an expert, NOT! Actually has just exactly the opposite
effect, proves that you know nothing.

As an aside most water softeners installed are of an inferiour quality
and/or installed incorrectly. People who contract with the usual
national brand water service companies typically get ripped off. You
are much better off having your water softening system installed by an
independant, the honest ones will refuse to service by contract,
instead they will contact you once each year to set up a service
call... anyone who guarantees your well water quality is as much a con
artist as a medical professional who guarantees your health, both are
charlatans.

"Sheldon" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 12, 10:29?pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Sheldon" wrote in message

ps.com...





wrote:
water is softened with salt and the Na+ can be really high in areas
with hard water. hard on plants. Ingrid

Nonsense... you make it sound like softeners produce brine. A
properly functioning water softener puts no more salt into water than
exists in the water before softening, in fact water softeners usually
produce water with a lower salt content than contaned by the hard
water before softening, in removing minerals it also removes salt.
The salt used in the softening process does not enter the domestic
water supply, that salt is eliminated in another direction as grey
water. If any salt does end up in dometic water it is so miniscule a
concentration as to be negligible and has absolutely no more effect on
plants than rain water... there is more salt contained in bottled
water. There is plenty of info available on this topic.

http://www.wqa.org/sitelogic.cfm?ID=431

Maybe, but softened water sure tastes like crap. Of course, this
statement
is based only on my experience in about 15 homes, two of which just had
softeners installed by professionals.

Well, then you can only discuss those two homes with softeners... I've
no idea how those other thirteen homes fit into this discussion about
water softeners since those have none... perhaps you thought by
injecting larger numbers, regardless how meaningless, you'd appear
more of an expert, NOT! Actually has just exactly the opposite
effect, proves that you know nothing.

As an aside most water softeners installed are of an inferiour quality
and/or installed incorrectly. People who contract with the usual
national brand water service companies typically get ripped off. You
are much better off having your water softening system installed by an
independant, the honest ones will refuse to service by contract,
instead they will contact you once each year to set up a service
call... anyone who guarantees your well water quality is as much a con
artist as a medical professional who guarantees your health, both are
charlatans.


They all taste like crap in the same way.

As far as "independent" vs the word I used, "professional", I now need you
to tell me who installed the softeners in the two aforementioned homes.

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Sheldon" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 12, 10:29?pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Sheldon" wrote in message

ps.com...





wrote:
water is softened with salt and the Na+ can be really high in areas
with hard water. hard on plants. Ingrid

Nonsense... you make it sound like softeners produce brine. A
properly functioning water softener puts no more salt into water than
exists in the water before softening, in fact water softeners usually
produce water with a lower salt content than contaned by the hard
water before softening, in removing minerals it also removes salt.
The salt used in the softening process does not enter the domestic
water supply, that salt is eliminated in another direction as grey
water. If any salt does end up in dometic water it is so miniscule a
concentration as to be negligible and has absolutely no more effect on
plants than rain water... there is more salt contained in bottled
water. There is plenty of info available on this topic.

http://www.wqa.org/sitelogic.cfm?ID=431

Maybe, but softened water sure tastes like crap. Of course, this
statement
is based only on my experience in about 15 homes, two of which just had
softeners installed by professionals.

Well, then you can only discuss those two homes with softeners... I've
no idea how those other thirteen homes fit into this discussion about
water softeners since those have none... perhaps you thought by
injecting larger numbers, regardless how meaningless, you'd appear
more of an expert, NOT! Actually has just exactly the opposite
effect, proves that you know nothing.

As an aside most water softeners installed are of an inferiour quality
and/or installed incorrectly. People who contract with the usual
national brand water service companies typically get ripped off. You
are much better off having your water softening system installed by an
independant, the honest ones will refuse to service by contract,
instead they will contact you once each year to set up a service
call... anyone who guarantees your well water quality is as much a con
artist as a medical professional who guarantees your health, both are
charlatans.


They all taste like crap in the same way.

As far as "independent" vs the word I used, "professional", I now need you
to tell me who installed the softeners in the two aforementioned homes.

Softeners does not purify the water, therefore drinkable. I believe they
remove some minerals like iron and manganese, but does not remove all
forms of minerals or other stuff like biologicals. For Drinkable well
water most need a filtration or steam distillation system.

I do not know if soften water is better or worse for plants.
Soften water might be better than a very high hard line for plants.

However, my soften water does taste horrible ack! yucky.
My RO water, pure distilled is tasteless, drinkable but not as good as
bottled spring water with a few extra vitamins and minerals added.
I use RO for coffee and cooking. I buy bottled spring water for
drinking, mmmmm aahh goood

hmmmm
They all taste like crap in the same way.
I have never tasted crap so I would not know if soften water taste that
way. However, Joe have you really really really ... tasted crap?

I bet you never use that phrase again

Enjoy Life ..... Dan

--
Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically.

"Dan L." wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Sheldon" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 12, 10:29?pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Sheldon" wrote in message

ps.com...





wrote:
water is softened with salt and the Na+ can be really high in areas
with hard water. hard on plants. Ingrid

Nonsense... you make it sound like softeners produce brine. A
properly functioning water softener puts no more salt into water
than
exists in the water before softening, in fact water softeners
usually
produce water with a lower salt content than contaned by the hard
water before softening, in removing minerals it also removes salt.
The salt used in the softening process does not enter the domestic
water supply, that salt is eliminated in another direction as grey
water. If any salt does end up in dometic water it is so miniscule
a
concentration as to be negligible and has absolutely no more effect
on
plants than rain water... there is more salt contained in bottled
water. There is plenty of info available on this topic.

http://www.wqa.org/sitelogic.cfm?ID=431

Maybe, but softened water sure tastes like crap. Of course, this
statement
is based only on my experience in about 15 homes, two of which just
had
softeners installed by professionals.

Well, then you can only discuss those two homes with softeners... I've
no idea how those other thirteen homes fit into this discussion about
water softeners since those have none... perhaps you thought by
injecting larger numbers, regardless how meaningless, you'd appear
more of an expert, NOT! Actually has just exactly the opposite
effect, proves that you know nothing.

As an aside most water softeners installed are of an inferiour quality
and/or installed incorrectly. People who contract with the usual
national brand water service companies typically get ripped off. You
are much better off having your water softening system installed by an
independant, the honest ones will refuse to service by contract,
instead they will contact you once each year to set up a service
call... anyone who guarantees your well water quality is as much a con
artist as a medical professional who guarantees your health, both are
charlatans.


They all taste like crap in the same way.

As far as "independent" vs the word I used, "professional", I now need
you
to tell me who installed the softeners in the two aforementioned homes.

Softeners does not purify the water, therefore drinkable. I believe they
remove some minerals like iron and manganese, but does not remove all
forms of minerals or other stuff like biologicals. For Drinkable well
water most need a filtration or steam distillation system.

I do not know if soften water is better or worse for plants.
Soften water might be better than a very high hard line for plants.

However, my soften water does taste horrible ack! yucky.
My RO water, pure distilled is tasteless, drinkable but not as good as
bottled spring water with a few extra vitamins and minerals added.
I use RO for coffee and cooking. I buy bottled spring water for
drinking, mmmmm aahh goood

hmmmm
They all taste like crap in the same way.
I have never tasted crap so I would not know if soften water taste that
way. However, Joe have you really really really ... tasted crap?

I bet you never use that phrase again

Enjoy Life ..... Dan

Your cleverness is...well....
zzzzzzzzzzz..............

incorrect. softeners do use a brine to exchange calcium for sodium
ions. they are not environmentally friendly either.

"As the water passes through both kinds of resin, the hardness ions
replace the sodium or potassium ions which are released into the
water. The "harder" the water, the more sodium or potassium ions are
released from the resin and into the water."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_softener
"A water softener reduces the calcium or magnesium ion concentration
in hard water. These "hardness ions" cause three major kinds of
problems. The metal ions react with soaps and calcium sensitive
detergents, hindering their ability to lather properly and forming an
unsightly precipitate— the familiar scum or "bathtub ring". Presence
of "hardness ions" also inhibits the cleaning effect of detergent
formulations. More seriously, calcium and magnesium carbonates tend to
adhere to the surfaces of pipes and heat exchanger surfaces. The
resulting scale build-up can restrict water flow in pipes.....

Conventional water-softening devices intended for household use depend
on an ion-exchange resin in which "hardness" ions trade places with
sodium ions that are electrostatically bound to the anionic functional
groups of the polymeric resin. .....

The water to be treated passes through a bed of the resin.
Negatively-charged resins absorb and bind metal ions, which are
positively charged. The resins initially contain univalent sodium or
potassium ions, which exchange with divalent calcium and magnesium
ions in the water. This exchange eliminates precipitation and soap
scum formation."

Ingrid



"Sheldon" wrote in message
ups.com...
wrote:
water is softened with salt and the Na+ can be really high in areas
with hard water. hard on plants. Ingrid


Nonsense... you make it sound like softeners produce brine. A
properly functioning water softener puts no more salt into water than
exists in the water before softening, in fact water softeners usually
produce water with a lower salt content than contaned by the hard
water before softening, in removing minerals it also removes salt.
The salt used in the softening process does not enter the domestic
water supply, that salt is eliminated in another direction as grey
water. If any salt does end up in dometic water it is so miniscule a
concentration as to be negligible and has absolutely no more effect on
plants than rain water... there is more salt contained in bottled
water. There is plenty of info available on this topic.

http://www.wqa.org/sitelogic.cfm?ID=431

I agree. the "saltiness" of table salt NaCl is due to the chloride
ion, Cl- ... and saltiness can be increased by adding a bit of acid,
like lemon juice or vinegar. similarly, the saltiness can be lessened
with a pinch of baking soda which brings the pH down. Ingrid

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 02:29:48 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"

softened water sure tastes like crap. Of course, this statement
is based only on my experience in about 15 homes, two of which just had
softeners installed by professionals.

correct, softeners do not purify the water. I just paid for the
required once every 5 year well water quality test done, mostly for
bacteria. Any hint of E.coli and the well must be bleached. E.coli
is an indication that animal waste is seeping down into the well. the
well is ONLY used outdoors for watering, but it cannot be contaminated
anyway.
we have an iron filter BEFORE the softening unit ... and this is for
city water which is also from deep wells. In addition, this house has
an RO unit for drinking water to lower the amount of Na+ ions.

evidently softening is prohibited in some areas due to the impact on
the ecosystem of such sodium laced discharge. Ingrid

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:21:17 -0400, "Dan L."
Softeners does not purify the water, therefore drinkable. I believe they
remove some minerals like iron and manganese, but does not remove all
forms of minerals or other stuff like biologicals. For Drinkable well
water most need a filtration or steam distillation system.

I do not know if soften water is better or worse for plants.
Soften water might be better than a very high hard line for plants.

I like smart people, ingrid is smart
I can learn from Ingrid ....

Thanks for backing me up and adding common sense to this world.
My chemistry and gardening knowledge is weak, that is why I scan
this newsgroup. Mathematics, Physics and computer sciences are my
strengths. However, I am becoming more interested in plant biology.

Enjoy Life .... Dan


In article ,
wrote:

correct, softeners do not purify the water. I just paid for the
required once every 5 year well water quality test done, mostly for
bacteria. Any hint of E.coli and the well must be bleached. E.coli
is an indication that animal waste is seeping down into the well. the
well is ONLY used outdoors for watering, but it cannot be contaminated
anyway.
we have an iron filter BEFORE the softening unit ... and this is for
city water which is also from deep wells. In addition, this house has
an RO unit for drinking water to lower the amount of Na+ ions.

evidently softening is prohibited in some areas due to the impact on
the ecosystem of such sodium laced discharge. Ingrid

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:21:17 -0400, "Dan L."
Softeners does not purify the water, therefore drinkable. I believe they
remove some minerals like iron and manganese, but does not remove all
forms of minerals or other stuff like biologicals. For Drinkable well
water most need a filtration or steam distillation system.

I do not know if soften water is better or worse for plants.
Soften water might be better than a very high hard line for plants.


--
Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically.

"Dan L." wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Sheldon" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 12, 10:29?pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Sheldon" wrote in message

ps.com...





wrote:
water is softened with salt and the Na+ can be really high in areas
with hard water. hard on plants. Ingrid

Nonsense... you make it sound like softeners produce brine. A
properly functioning water softener puts no more salt into water
than
exists in the water before softening, in fact water softeners
usually
produce water with a lower salt content than contaned by the hard
water before softening, in removing minerals it also removes salt.
The salt used in the softening process does not enter the domestic
water supply, that salt is eliminated in another direction as grey
water. If any salt does end up in dometic water it is so miniscule
a
concentration as to be negligible and has absolutely no more effect
on
plants than rain water... there is more salt contained in bottled
water. There is plenty of info available on this topic.

http://www.wqa.org/sitelogic.cfm?ID=431

Maybe, but softened water sure tastes like crap. Of course, this
statement
is based only on my experience in about 15 homes, two of which just
had
softeners installed by professionals.

Well, then you can only discuss those two homes with softeners... I've
no idea how those other thirteen homes fit into this discussion about
water softeners since those have none... perhaps you thought by
injecting larger numbers, regardless how meaningless, you'd appear
more of an expert, NOT! Actually has just exactly the opposite
effect, proves that you know nothing.

As an aside most water softeners installed are of an inferiour quality
and/or installed incorrectly. People who contract with the usual
national brand water service companies typically get ripped off. You
are much better off having your water softening system installed by an
independant, the honest ones will refuse to service by contract,
instead they will contact you once each year to set up a service
call... anyone who guarantees your well water quality is as much a con
artist as a medical professional who guarantees your health, both are
charlatans.


They all taste like crap in the same way.

As far as "independent" vs the word I used, "professional", I now need
you
to tell me who installed the softeners in the two aforementioned homes.

Softeners does not purify the water, therefore drinkable.

You never saw me say that, so I assume you were replying to someone else.
Might be time to back up your reader's message files, and do some
maintenance. It seems to be threading the messages incorrectly.

On Sep 17, 9:20?am, wrote:
correct, softeners do not purify the water. I just paid for the
required once every 5 year well water quality test done, mostly for
bacteria. Any hint of E.coli and the well must be bleached. E.coli
is an indication that animal waste is seeping down into the well. the
well is ONLY used outdoors for watering, but it cannot be contaminated
anyway.
we have an iron filter BEFORE the softening unit ... and this is for
city water which is also from deep wells. In addition, this house has
an RO unit for drinking water to lower the amount of Na+ ions.

evidently softening is prohibited in some areas due to the impact on
the ecosystem of such sodium laced discharge. Ingrid

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 19:21:17 -0400, "Dan L."



Softeners does not purify the water, therefore drinkable. I believe they
remove some minerals like iron and manganese, but does not remove all
forms of minerals or other stuff like biologicals. For Drinkable well
water most need a filtration or steam distillation system.

I do not know if soften water is better or worse for plants.
Soften water might be better than a very high hard line for plants.-

When bacteria is present just shocking a well with chlorine is not
good enough, UV (Ultra Violet) treatment is also necessary (and
testing should be conducted often, at least once a year, more often if
small children, the aged and any with immune dificiency are present).
Also the hot water heater needs periodic cleaning and shocking, the
tepid water at the bottom of the tank along with all the sediment that
accumulates creates the perfect environment for bacteria to
flourish... the unit needs to be turned off and the tank needs to be
shocked and flushed several times. If there are any old fashioned
expansion tanks those require service too but really the system needs
to be modernized, anytime there is stagnant water a problem will
arise.

I've lived with well water most of my life, only a few times for short
duration did I have city water. With well water a little common sense
goes a long way, and well water is not free, dollars need to be spent
on proper maintenence... bleach is cheap, UV lamps are expensive....
bleach is very temporary, UV is constant. I use both... I wouldn't
live with well water that wasn't UV treated. All the air in my house
is UV treated too.

thankew, thankew, thankew.... yes, I am a microbiologist, I just ended
up in the Physics dept, and the course I teach has a heavy use of
computers... LOL. Ingrid

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 18:17:05 -0400, "Dan L."
wrote:

I like smart people, ingrid is smart
I can learn from Ingrid ....

Thanks for backing me up and adding common sense to this world.
My chemistry and gardening knowledge is weak, that is why I scan
this newsgroup. Mathematics, Physics and computer sciences are my
strengths. However, I am becoming more interested in plant biology.

Enjoy Life .... Dan