"Sheldon" wrote in message
...
On Mar 13, 1:56?pm, "zzznot" wrote:
I thought I'd spread some decorative bark on
the ground of the flower beds and between
some bushes, where the adobe soil otherwise
gets cracked and bare. ?It's supposed to
hold down weeds and retain moisture. ?So,
is there any downside to using it? ?Or, is
it just good organic matter anyway?

Pine bark nuggets work well. They're typically available in three
sizes, small. medium. and large. I like to use a mix of large and
medium piled about six inches deep. They are heavy enough that the
wind won't blow them around and wood eating insects do not eat pine
bark. The only drawback is if you have poor drainage causing large
puddles, then they may float away... it's best to contain them with
some sort of edging regardless, same as with any mulch.

http://www.thelandscapeshop.com/Hort.../Pine_Bark.htm

----------

Tried that last year. Stuff definitely floats away if not dammed in some
fashion. Does slow down weeds and such. Aids in moisture retention.
However, breaks down much faster than cedar mulch.

A local landscaper recommends it (pine bark) vehemently as a mix with new
soil for grass. He says it cuts down the need for fertilizer and keeps the
soil drained. Am on 2nd year with one plot with soil immersed in pine bark,
the other not, same topsoil used. He also said for established lawns, just
throw the bark out in the yard liberally. Mow it with a mulching blade.
Mow it once a week until the bark is absorbed, then mow as needed for lawn
growth. Took 4 weeks here on an established area.

--
Dave

My vote in this primary was for the lesser
of many evils...

"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..
Bark mulch is made up of mostly suberin which is long chains of fatty
acids. No cellulose avail. to feed the soil micros. That's the down side.


Nonsense, for the real compostion of bark:
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn091.pdf

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding
us that we are not the boss.

Deadwood is neither forester, nor tree expert.

Jangchub wrote:

Deco Bark is not very beneficial in any way that I can
tell. �

Deco Bark accomplishes the primary functions of mulch very well, it
maintains moisture and supresses weeds.

It doesn't break down well.

For most applications folks place mulch in hopes it does not break
down quickly... why keep buying mulch when you don't have to... there
are far better methods for amending soil with organic matter; add
commercial humus directly or make ones own by composting to add.
Compost is NOT mulch, in fact using compost as mulch is the very worst
thing to do, laid on top of soil the humus portion dries out quickly,
compacts, and prevents the passage of moisture and air... humus is
only beneficial when worked into soil, not laid on top as mulch.
Compost is a blend of organic matter that is not yet fully decayed.
Once organic matter is fully composted/decayed it's called humus.

On Mar 14, 8:11�pm, Jangchub wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:20:24 -0700 (PDT), Sheldon
wrote:





Jangchub wrote:

Deco Bark is not very beneficial in any way that I can
tell. ?

Deco Bark accomplishes the primary functions of mulch very well, it
maintains moisture and supresses weeds.

It doesn't break down well.

For most applications folks place mulch in hopes it does not break
down quickly... why keep buying mulch when you don't have to... there
are far better methods for amending soil with organic matter; add
commercial humus directly or make ones own by composting to add.
Compost is NOT mulch, in fact using compost as mulch is the very worst
thing to do, laid on top of soil the humus portion dries out quickly,
compacts, and prevents the passage of moisture and air... humus is
only beneficial when worked into soil, not laid on top as mulch.
Compost is a blend of organic matter that is not yet fully decayed.
Once organic matter is fully composted/decayed it's called humus.

I guess you didn't read my entire post. �Oh well. �


I certainly did read your entire post, and with exquiste
comprehension, and your being patronizing now won't save you... you
don't know the difference between mulching and composting... they are
not necessarily mutually dependant. There are instances where one
does want mulch to decompose relatively quickly but when one speaks of
"Decorative" unless one possesses more dollars than brain cells mulch
should be chosen that decompoises relatively slowly. Oh, well.

On Mar 15, 11:35�am, Jangchub wrote:
On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 08:06:41 -0700 (PDT), Sheldon
wrote:





On Mar 14, 8:11?pm, Jangchub wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:20:24 -0700 (PDT), Sheldon
wrote:

Jangchub wrote:

Deco Bark is not very beneficial in any way that I can
tell. ?

Deco Bark accomplishes the primary functions of mulch very well, it
maintains moisture and supresses weeds.

It doesn't break down well.

For most applications folks place mulch in hopes it does not break
down quickly... why keep buying mulch when you don't have to... there
are far better methods for amending soil with organic matter; add
commercial humus directly or make ones own by composting to add.
Compost is NOT mulch, in fact using compost as mulch is the very worst
thing to do, laid on top of soil the humus portion dries out quickly,
compacts, and prevents the passage of moisture and air... humus is
only beneficial when worked into soil, not laid on top as mulch.
Compost is a blend of organic matter that is not yet fully decayed.
Once organic matter is fully composted/decayed it's called humus.

I guess you didn't read my entire post. ?Oh well. ?

I certainly did read your entire post, and with exquiste
comprehension, and your being patronizing now won't save you... you
don't know the difference between mulching and composting... they are
not necessarily mutually dependant. �There are instances where one
does want mulch to decompose relatively quickly but when one speaks of
"Decorative" unless one possesses more dollars than brain cells mulch
should be chosen that decompoises relatively slowly. �Oh, well.

In my professional life I was a greenhouse grower and attended SUNY
Farmingdale for horticulture. �

Oh, wow... I'm trembling in awe.

I know the diff. �Shredded mulch is
better in every way when compared to deco bark. �I am not in a contest
here with you. �I get mulch free at my local recycle center. �Most
towns have that in Texas. �I know things you don't. �Let's leave it
there.

So, you're a cheap *******... and here I thought you were just dumb,

Smelly shredded mixed tree limbs from utility workers clearing
easements is the very best possible material for introducing
pestulence into a garden. You're no horticulturist, and you
certainly never attended school at LI, Noo Yawk, or you'd never ever
mention TX in the same breath. Sakadawa is in Tibet... so nothing
about you is truthful, Jang.

In article
,
Sheldon wrote:

On Mar 15, 11:35?am, Jangchub wrote:
On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 08:06:41 -0700 (PDT), Sheldon
wrote:





On Mar 14, 8:11?pm, Jangchub wrote:
On Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:20:24 -0700 (PDT), Sheldon
wrote:

Jangchub wrote:

Deco Bark is not very beneficial in any way that I can
tell. ?

Deco Bark accomplishes the primary functions of mulch very well, it
maintains moisture and supresses weeds.

It doesn't break down well.

For most applications folks place mulch in hopes it does not break
down quickly... why keep buying mulch when you don't have to... there
are far better methods for amending soil with organic matter; add
commercial humus directly or make ones own by composting to add.
Compost is NOT mulch, in fact using compost as mulch is the very worst
thing to do, laid on top of soil the humus portion dries out quickly,
compacts, and prevents the passage of moisture and air... humus is
only beneficial when worked into soil, not laid on top as mulch.
Compost is a blend of organic matter that is not yet fully decayed.
Once organic matter is fully composted/decayed it's called humus.

I guess you didn't read my entire post. ?Oh well. ?

I certainly did read your entire post, and with exquiste
comprehension, and your being patronizing now won't save you... you
don't know the difference between mulching and composting... they are
not necessarily mutually dependant. ?There are instances where one
does want mulch to decompose relatively quickly but when one speaks of
"Decorative" unless one possesses more dollars than brain cells mulch
should be chosen that decompoises relatively slowly. ?Oh, well.

In my professional life I was a greenhouse grower and attended SUNY
Farmingdale for horticulture. ?

Oh, wow... I'm trembling in awe.

I know the diff. ?Shredded mulch is
better in every way when compared to deco bark. ?I am not in a contest
here with you. ?I get mulch free at my local recycle center. ?Most
towns have that in Texas. ?I know things you don't. ?Let's leave it
there.

So, you're a cheap *******... and here I thought you were just dumb,

Smelly shredded mixed tree limbs from utility workers clearing
easements is the very best possible material for introducing
pestulence into a garden. You're no horticulturist, and you
certainly never attended school at LI, Noo Yawk, or you'd never ever
mention TX in the same breath. Sakadawa is in Tibet... so nothing
about you is truthful, Jang.

Cool. Hold on a minute and let me get some popcorn. It's a rainy day
here too;-)
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

How about

Outer bark, phellem, is cork. cork is suberin which is log chains of fatty
acids. regardless what that website says. The carbon in phellem is not in
a form usable by the soil.

Suberin is a lipid that in the outer periderm of phellem waterproofs outer
bark. Suberin- impregnated phellem is called cork. The chains of carbon and
hydrogen in suberin are so varied that few enzymes from microorganisms are
able to cleave it for an energy source. This characteristic gives corks
their unique benefits for sealing bottles. Suberin is also in a layer in
absorbing roots called the Casparian strip. This layer is an effective
boundary essential in the absorption processes. Energy is required to
transport water and elements through the boundary into the tree. Suberin is
also a major compound in the barrier zone that forms after wounding. Outer
bark that contains suberin is often used for mulch, since bark mulch will
not be broken down by soil microorganisms because of the suberin. The bark
mulch has aesthetic value, but the bark is of little value for providing
energy-releasing compounds to soil microorganisms. Some trees store fats and
oils as their reserve energy source. The fats and oils are not soluble in
water. Many palms store oils. Waxes on leaves and fruits are also lipids.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.



"Don Staples" wrote in message
...
"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..
Bark mulch is made up of mostly suberin which is long chains of fatty
acids. No cellulose avail. to feed the soil micros. That's the down
side.


Nonsense, for the real compostion of bark:
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn091.pdf

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding
us that we are not the boss.

Deadwood is neither forester, nor tree expert.

In article ,
"symplastless" wrote:

Outer bark, phellem, is cork. Suberin- impregnated phellem is called cork. The chains of carbon and
hydrogen in suberin are so varied that few enzymes from microorganisms are
able to cleave it for an energy source. . . . . . . . . . . . . .The bark
mulch has aesthetic value, but the bark is of little value for providing
energy-releasing compounds to soil microorganisms.

As a result, it may cover the soil but it doesn't build the soil. How
much does decorative cork mulch cost? This is the advice of a tree
expert? Where is the benefit?
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..
How about

Outer bark, phellem, is cork. cork is suberin which is log chains of
fatty acids. regardless what that website says. The carbon in phellem is
not in a form usable by the soil.

Suberin is a lipid that in the outer periderm of phellem waterproofs outer
bark. Suberin- impregnated phellem is called cork. The chains of carbon
and hydrogen in suberin are so varied that few enzymes from microorganisms
are able to cleave it for an energy source. This characteristic gives
corks their unique benefits for sealing bottles. Suberin is also in a
layer in absorbing roots called the Casparian strip. This layer is an
effective boundary essential in the absorption processes. Energy is
required to transport water and elements through the boundary into the
tree. Suberin is also a major compound in the barrier zone that forms
after wounding. Outer bark that contains suberin is often used for mulch,
since bark mulch will not be broken down by soil microorganisms because of
the suberin. The bark mulch has aesthetic value, but the bark is of little
value for providing energy-releasing compounds to soil microorganisms.
Some trees store fats and oils as their reserve energy source. The fats
and oils are not soluble in water. Many palms store oils. Waxes on leaves
and fruits are also lipids.

"Regardless of what that website says". Ah, so real science, published by
real experts, is less than your load of crap?

You really need to get back on your meds.

Beware a fruitcake that claims to be a forester, and an expert, when he is
nothing more than a fraud.

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 10:00:32 -0700, Billy
wrote:

Cool. Hold on a minute and let me get some popcorn. It's a rainy day
here too;-)

I think it's called decorative bark!

J.

On Mar 16, 1:06�am, Billy wrote:
In article ,

�"symplastless" wrote:
Outer bark, phellem, is cork. Suberin- impregnated phellem is called cork. The chains of carbon and
hydrogen in suberin are so varied that few enzymes from microorganisms are
able to cleave it for an energy source. . . . . . . . . . . . . .The bark
mulch has aesthetic value, but the bark is of little value for providing
energy-releasing compounds to soil microorganisms.

As a result, it may cover the soil but it doesn't build the soil. How
much does decorative cork mulch cost? This is the advice of a tree
expert? Where is the benefit?

There is no benefit to cork mulch in the garden as it's too light
weight and will blow/float away. But building soil is NOT a requisite
of *decorative* mulch, in fact folks who spend the extra $$$s to
install decorative mulch want it to last, and last, and last. If you
want mulch that is also good for builidng soil use inexpensive organic
matter like straw, leaves, newspaper and cardboard, these items do the
job of retaining moisture, inhibiting weed growth, and decompose
rather quickly, but are not at all decorative. I use saved up
corrogated for my vegetable garden, just barely lasts the growing
season and then I till it in and begin again the next year. But for
my perennial beds I want something purtier so I use pine bark nuggets,
they're kinda costly considering I need about 200 bags and have to add
more than 25 bags each year, I have to go get them and then haul them
about too... I wish they didn't decay at all.

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:23:30 -0700 (PDT), Sheldon
wrote:

There is no benefit to cork mulch in the garden as it's too light
weight and will blow/float away. But building soil is NOT a requisite
of *decorative* mulch, in fact folks who spend the extra $$$s to
install decorative mulch want it to last, and last, and last. If you
want mulch that is also good for builidng soil use inexpensive organic
matter like straw, leaves, newspaper and cardboard, these items do the
job of retaining moisture, inhibiting weed growth, and decompose
rather quickly, but are not at all decorative. I use saved up
corrogated for my vegetable garden, just barely lasts the growing
season and then I till it in and begin again the next year. But for
my perennial beds I want something purtier so I use pine bark nuggets,
they're kinda costly considering I need about 200 bags and have to add
more than 25 bags each year, I have to go get them and then haul them
about too... I wish they didn't decay at all.

I'm just using about 6-8 bags in front, and maybe a couple more in
other spots. I just started asking about this to make sure it
wouldn't actually hurt the soil. So, say at the end of the year, the
stuff has degraded some (that hasn't washed or blown away), it should
be OK to just turn it into the soil when planting next year's
perennials and such, and then put some fresh on top?

Thanks.

J.

Sheldon wrote in

ps.com:

I use saved up corrogated for my vegetable garden, just
barely lasts the growing season and then I till it in and
begin again the next year.

oh, do you really, Shelly girl? *you* use corrogated
cardboard? *you*, who called *me* six kinds of stupid for
using corrogated cardboard on the pathways in my garden, use
*cardboard* in *your* garden?
huh, wonder where you ever got that idea from...

lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

enigma wrote:
Sheldon wrote

I use saved up corrogated for my vegetable garden, just
barely lasts the growing season and then I till it in and
begin again the next year. �

�oh, do you really, Shelly girl? *you* use corrogated
cardboard? *you*, who called *me* six kinds of stupid for
using corrogated cardboard on the pathways in my garden, use
*cardboard* in *your* garden?
�huh, wonder where you ever got that idea from...

When accusing someone of what they wrote you'd be more believeable had
you produced a link to the post so everyone can see in what
context... where you live it's apparent that one is not entitled to
see their accuser or evidence against them.

And you spelled stupid wrong... it's 's-m-a-r-m-y', one kind.

See, I very rarely call anyone 'stupid", had you said I called you an
idiot, a moron, an imbecile, then your accusation would have a ring of
truth.

In article
,
Sheldon wrote:

And you spelled stupid wrong...

Is this the same stoopid widdle Shelly that recommended drinking more
sodium from water softeners (except he didn't know water softeners
exchanged sodium for calcium) because he only spent three seconds
scanning an article in about.com to become an expert . . . NOT?
The same widdle Shelly who quotes a paragraph and ignores the following
paragraph the give the lie to his stoopid widdle assertion?

Lee spelled stupid correctly. But stoopid is really overly and
unnecessarily restrained. In the full essence it's meaning, stupid is
spelled S-H-E-L-L-Y. Don't fault Lee for not writing all the synonyms
for S-H-E-L-L-Y, that would be an open invitation for muscle cramps.

Can widdle Shelly say bye-bye now? And change that nappy.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/