Dan L. wrote:
In article
,
gardengal wrote:

On Apr 7, 11:00?am, Billy wrote:
Gardengal,
my argument with you wasn't personal.
Ah, but YOU made it personal. Personal attacks and rudeness have no
value and very little place on a gardening forum. That you cannot
enter into a civilized discourse without them says a lot about you and
the confidence you have in your opinions.

It was with the facts.
Really. The facts according whom? What you did was take information
out of context and blow it up out of proportion to the specific
question. No one was disputing that soil organisms can have an
influence on soil pH but it is relatively minor in the grand scheme of
things. Other factors have a far greater influence. And they
typically react to existing conditions rather than creating their own.
The facts are that plants do not create soil chemistry or even alter
it to any significant degree - it is what it is independent of them.

Lord knows I've been on the dirty end of the stick enough time but each
time I learned from it (I think I have, anyway) and moved on. There are
many posters here asking for help, especially at this time of the year,
and your knowledge and experience can greatly benefit all of us.
Speaking for myself, I hope that you'll continue to post in the "wrecked
gardens".
I have no intention of being run off by the likes of you. I am
extremely secure in my education and my knowledge - I've been in the
horticultural industry for a long time - and I will offer advice and
suggestions to the best of my ability to those whom I think can
benefit from it.

Excellent, please stay. One does need mental callouses here and in life
general. Take and give what you want and ignore the rest. If some one
hands out a personal attack - just smile and move on. I, like many
others here have enjoyed a good slam at others also. Smile and Enjoy
Life. I have found this newsgroup has many well educated university
degreed individuals. A most useful newsgroup.

Enjoy Life ... Dan


Dan,

While I agree with you that there are still some very knowledgeable
people that post, there are MANY of us that post a lot less (or not at
all) because of all the "noise" here. Not only is all the off topic
stuff distracting the name calling (and worse) is good reason to abandon
these newsgroups. There are many moderated garden boards where the
people are civil (or else) and that is where a lot of us have gone.
--
Bill R. (Ohio Valley, U.S.A)

"You are never to old to play in the dirt"

To see pictures from my garden visit http://members.iglou.com/brosen

Digital Camera - Pentax *ist DL

Remove NO_WEEDS_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

Charlie wrote:
On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 11:06:26 -0400, Bill R
wrote:

Dan L. wrote:
In article
,
gardengal wrote:

On Apr 7, 11:00?am, Billy wrote:
Gardengal,
my argument with you wasn't personal.
Ah, but YOU made it personal. Personal attacks and rudeness have no
value and very little place on a gardening forum. That you cannot
enter into a civilized discourse without them says a lot about you and
the confidence you have in your opinions.

It was with the facts.
Really. The facts according whom? What you did was take information
out of context and blow it up out of proportion to the specific
question. No one was disputing that soil organisms can have an
influence on soil pH but it is relatively minor in the grand scheme of
things. Other factors have a far greater influence. And they
typically react to existing conditions rather than creating their own.
The facts are that plants do not create soil chemistry or even alter
it to any significant degree - it is what it is independent of them.

Lord knows I've been on the dirty end of the stick enough time but each
time I learned from it (I think I have, anyway) and moved on. There are
many posters here asking for help, especially at this time of the year,
and your knowledge and experience can greatly benefit all of us.
Speaking for myself, I hope that you'll continue to post in the "wrecked
gardens".
I have no intention of being run off by the likes of you. I am
extremely secure in my education and my knowledge - I've been in the
horticultural industry for a long time - and I will offer advice and
suggestions to the best of my ability to those whom I think can
benefit from it.
Excellent, please stay. One does need mental callouses here and in life
general. Take and give what you want and ignore the rest. If some one
hands out a personal attack - just smile and move on. I, like many
others here have enjoyed a good slam at others also. Smile and Enjoy
Life. I have found this newsgroup has many well educated university
degreed individuals. A most useful newsgroup.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

Dan,

While I agree with you that there are still some very knowledgeable
people that post, there are MANY of us that post a lot less (or not at
all) because of all the "noise" here. Not only is all the off topic
stuff distracting the name calling (and worse) is good reason to abandon
these newsgroups. There are many moderated garden boards where the
people are civil (or else) and that is where a lot of us have gone.

God, I'll bet you're a barrel of fun to spend a day with, Bill,
working in the garden.

Charlie

Charlie,

That is why I don't care for your posts. You don't know me from Adam
yet you are *so* judgmental about all my posts. As far as I'm concerned
you can ruin this newsgroup all you want with your WAY off topic posts
and your very strange politics. I'll take my gardening knowledge elsewhere.

You (and a few others) have managed to chase a lot of longtime posters
away and that is a shame but not the end of the world. There are many
garden boards that are still very useful and the *best* thing is that
they only allow GARDENING post (*NO* politics). This group was going
long before you started dragging it down and will go on long after you
(and I) are gone. It is just ashame that it has come to this.
--
Bill R. (Ohio Valley, U.S.A)

"You are never to old to play in the dirt"

To see pictures from my garden visit http://members.iglou.com/brosen

Digital Camera - Pentax *ist DL

Remove NO_WEEDS_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

Charlie wrote:
On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:53:40 -0400, Bill R
wrote:

Charlie wrote:
On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 11:06:26 -0400, Bill R
wrote:

Dan L. wrote:
In article
,
gardengal wrote:

On Apr 7, 11:00?am, Billy wrote:
Gardengal,
my argument with you wasn't personal.
Ah, but YOU made it personal. Personal attacks and rudeness have no
value and very little place on a gardening forum. That you cannot
enter into a civilized discourse without them says a lot about you and
the confidence you have in your opinions.

It was with the facts.
Really. The facts according whom? What you did was take information
out of context and blow it up out of proportion to the specific
question. No one was disputing that soil organisms can have an
influence on soil pH but it is relatively minor in the grand scheme of
things. Other factors have a far greater influence. And they
typically react to existing conditions rather than creating their own.
The facts are that plants do not create soil chemistry or even alter
it to any significant degree - it is what it is independent of them.

Lord knows I've been on the dirty end of the stick enough time but each
time I learned from it (I think I have, anyway) and moved on. There are
many posters here asking for help, especially at this time of the year,
and your knowledge and experience can greatly benefit all of us.
Speaking for myself, I hope that you'll continue to post in the "wrecked
gardens".
I have no intention of being run off by the likes of you. I am
extremely secure in my education and my knowledge - I've been in the
horticultural industry for a long time - and I will offer advice and
suggestions to the best of my ability to those whom I think can
benefit from it.
Excellent, please stay. One does need mental callouses here and in life
general. Take and give what you want and ignore the rest. If some one
hands out a personal attack - just smile and move on. I, like many
others here have enjoyed a good slam at others also. Smile and Enjoy
Life. I have found this newsgroup has many well educated university
degreed individuals. A most useful newsgroup.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

Dan,

While I agree with you that there are still some very knowledgeable
people that post, there are MANY of us that post a lot less (or not at
all) because of all the "noise" here. Not only is all the off topic
stuff distracting the name calling (and worse) is good reason to abandon
these newsgroups. There are many moderated garden boards where the
people are civil (or else) and that is where a lot of us have gone.
God, I'll bet you're a barrel of fun to spend a day with, Bill,
working in the garden.

Charlie
Charlie,

That is why I don't care for your posts. You don't know me from Adam
yet you are *so* judgmental about all my posts. As far as I'm concerned
you can ruin this newsgroup all you want with your WAY off topic posts
and your very strange politics. I'll take my gardening knowledge elsewhere.

You call it judment, I call it discernment.

What politics are strange? Those that differ from yours? Why don't
you take exception to each and every OT post that shows here that goes
against your system of thought?

I could not care less if you take your ideas and advocacy concerning
the continuation of the poisoning of my planet elsewhere. People need
to stand up against planet-rapers.

You (and a few others) have managed to chase a lot of longtime posters
away and that is a shame but not the end of the world.

And your, and others, advocacy of the chemical solution may have
accomplished the same thing with new lurkers and posters. It may have
started the slow poisoning of a child......the chemical solution *is*
the end of the world.

There are many
garden boards that are still very useful and the *best* thing is that
they only allow GARDENING post (*NO* politics). This group was going
long before you started dragging it down and will go on long after you
(and I) are gone. It is just ashame that it has come to this.

Diversity is a wonderful thing, and has kept this here old world
choogling along for a loooonnng time. The destruction of diversity,
in ideas, in society.... and *in the garden* is an evil thing, my
friend.


I should not bother to even reply to you but you do need to know one
fact. I, myself, am an organic gardener and ONE TIME I suggested the
use of fertilizer and since then you been on my case (so much for your
"so called" discernment). And, in my area (farm country), fertilizer is
used by EVERY farmer I know. You can complain about that all you want
and "go off the deep end" and say that farmers are destroying your
world. I know for a fact that my grandkids are much healthier BECAUSE
of farmers use of fertilizers and the better crops that they produce.
You may think that you are "saving the planet" but you are only fooling
yourself.

Don't bother to reply. I know I can't change your mind and you won't
change mine so don't waste your words on me.
--
Bill R. (Ohio Valley, U.S.A)

"You are never to old to play in the dirt"

To see pictures from my garden visit http://members.iglou.com/brosen

Digital Camera - Pentax *ist DL

Remove NO_WEEDS_ in e-mail address to reply by e-mail

Bill R wrote:

I know for a fact that my grandkids are much healthier BECAUSE
of farmers use of fertilizers and the better crops that they produce.

Some might dispute that. I'd rather get worked up over mega corporations
bent on dominating the world's seed, and therefore food, supply.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

In article ,
Gary Woods wrote:

Bill R wrote:

I know for a fact that my grandkids are much healthier BECAUSE
of farmers use of fertilizers and the better crops that they produce.

Some might dispute that. I'd rather get worked up over mega corporations
bent on dominating the world's seed, and therefore food, supply.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

They are essentially the same people. Chemferts kill the soil organisms
which leads to loss of top soil. Chemferts (nitrates) have infiltrated
the aquifers of the midwest and are poisonous to children. Chemfert
run-off pollutes our water ways and creates a 22126 square kilometre
(8543 mi?) region in the Gulf of Mexico called a dead zone around the
mouth of the Mississippi River.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...31/ST200807310
0349.html
Chemferts encourage huge monoculture planting of GM corn, GM soybean, GM
cotton in the same place, over and over, allowing organisms that attack
them to build-up in the soil, requiring more and more pesticides.
This is encouraged by Monsanto, that sells the seeds, and companies like
Cargill who process and fractionate the crops, and companies like
Phillip Morris (now Altria Group) who sell the cheap, nutrient deficient
food to the American public.

It's all cut from the same cloth Dan.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html