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Systemic pesticide for roses
I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses.
I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous. I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the results. Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so dangerous to humans and pets? Thanks, Freckles |
Systemic pesticide for roses
"Freckles" wrote
I grow all my roses in very large pots. Its a lot easier for me to fill up a pot with good potting soil than it is to dig a large hole and fill it back up. I have tried soap solutions on my roses and they might have gotten get rid of some aphids, but they have done partially nothing to reduce the white fly population. I bought a spray bottle of a pesticide spray, but after reading all the hazards and warnings I stored the bottle on a shelf in my garage. I would prefer to go organic, but that method just doesn't seem to be working. Roses are a magnet for insects... molds, smuts, all manner of nasties that want to do in your roses. Depending on the physical arrangement of your roses, if relatively close to each other, you may want to look into ordering some ladybug or preying mantis egg casings... although I think that is mostly a method to assuage your psyche that you're doing the right thing. These are the natural preditors of aphids, white flies, and other insects... I've tried it without much luck, I think they migrated to a neighbor's garden. But to be perfectly honest there is no sure fire organic insect control method... by the time many of the so-called organic methods have some effect your plants will be pretty much skeletonized... you'll get that good feeling that comes with thinking you're doing the right thing but you won't get any roses. Anytime you see a showcase rose garden you can bet your bippee they are using chemical insecticides... if used judiciously they don't cause any problems... choose the correct type and read and follow the directions... I think you can find excellent help at jacksonandperkins.com |
Systemic pesticide for roses
On 5/4/2009 10:08 PM, Freckles wrote:
I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses. I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous. I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the results. Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so dangerous to humans and pets? Thanks, Freckles I use Bayer's Rose & Flower Care, which combines fertilizer and systemic insecticide in a dry granular form. Although I feed my roses every month from March through October, I use this product only every-other month to get excellent results. In the alternating months, I feed my roses with ammonium sulfate. You might instead consider using Bayer's 12 Month Tree & Shrub Insect Control, which is a systemic applied as a soil drench. I used this very successfully to control leaf miners on citrus. It is considered non-toxic to vertebrates (humans, other mammals, birds, reptiles, fish, etc) and is thus safe on edibles. It controls such rose pests as aphid and white fly. I haven't tried this on my own roses. You might call your local agricultural extension to ask about using it. I will be calling my county's agricultural extension when I replace my peach tree to determine if it will control flat-headed bark borers since Lindane is no longer available. NOTE: 12 Month Tree & Shrub Insect Control can be quite expensive; it cost over $20 to give one treatment each to a dwarf lemon and a dwarf orange. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19) Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
Systemic pesticide for roses
In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote: Bayer's 12 Month Tree & Shrub Insect Control David, if you and you other pesticide freaks would just give the downside of the biocides that you recommend so easily, it would make it easier for the recipient of your information to determine if it is something that they want to do. Imidacloprid ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION Environmental Precautions This product is highly toxic to birds and aquatic invertebrates. Do not apply directly to water, to areas where surface water is present or to intertidal areas below the mean high water mark. Apply this product only as specified on the label. http://www.cdms.net/ldat/mp8F5001.pdf Why don't you learn about IPM so that you wouldn't have poison the environment to solve a pest problem, or is it just easier to throw poison-money at the problem, because you don't have the time to do it right? To put Integrated Pest Management and biocides in perspective, I'd suggest that you read "American Pests: The Losing War on Insects from Colonial Times to DDT" by James E. McWilliams http://www.amazon.com/American-Pests...l/dp/023113942 X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238975011&sr=1-1 Your library should have it. I'm still on your Christmas card list, aren't I? -- - Billy "For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html |
Systemic pesticide for roses
On Tue, 5 May 2009 00:08:50 -0500, "Freckles"
wrote: I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses. I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous. I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the results. Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so dangerous to humans and pets? Thanks, Freckles I've planted garlic around the roses with good success. Definitely kid and pet friendly. Kate |
Systemic pesticide for roses
In article ,
"brooklyn1" wrote: "Freckles" wrote I grow all my roses in very large pots. Its a lot easier for me to fill up a pot with good potting soil than it is to dig a large hole and fill it back up. I have tried soap solutions on my roses and they might have gotten get rid of some aphids, but they have done partially nothing to reduce the white fly population. I bought a spray bottle of a pesticide spray, but after reading all the hazards and warnings I stored the bottle on a shelf in my garage. I would prefer to go organic, but that method just doesn't seem to be working. Roses are a magnet for insects... molds, smuts, all manner of nasties that want to do in your roses. Depending on the physical arrangement of your roses, if relatively close to each other, you may want to look into ordering some ladybug or preying mantis egg casings... although I think that is mostly a method to assuage your psyche that you're doing the right thing. These are the natural preditors of aphids, white flies, and other insects... I've tried it without much luck, I think they migrated to a neighbor's garden. But to be perfectly honest there is no sure fire organic insect control method... by the time many of the so-called organic methods have some effect your plants will be pretty much skeletonized... you'll get that good feeling that comes with thinking you're doing the right thing but you won't get any roses. Anytime you see a showcase rose garden you can bet your bippee they are using chemical insecticides... if used judiciously they don't cause any problems... choose the correct type and read and follow the directions... I think you can find excellent help at jacksonandperkins.com Write down the names of the products then do a google search for them, add a comma MSDS(,MSDS) (Material Safety Data Sheet). Yes some of these biocides are highly effective at killing your pest, and any other insect inside the perimeter of exposure. In medicine, the injunction is, "First, do no harm", the same should hold true when treating the planet. True, your roses may not look like they just came out of Photoshop but is that so bad? We have grown roses organically for the last thirty years, and if I do say so myself, they very pretty to see. -- - Billy "For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html |
Systemic pesticide for roses
"Billy" wrote: "brooklyn1" wrote: "Freckles" wrote I grow all my roses in very large pots. Its a lot easier for me to fill up a pot with good potting soil than it is to dig a large hole and fill it back up. I have tried soap solutions on my roses and they might have gotten get rid of some aphids, but they have done partially nothing to reduce the white fly population. I bought a spray bottle of a pesticide spray, but after reading all the hazards and warnings I stored the bottle on a shelf in my garage. I would prefer to go organic, but that method just doesn't seem to be working. Roses are a magnet for insects... molds, smuts, all manner of nasties that want to do in your roses. Depending on the physical arrangement of your roses, if relatively close to each other, you may want to look into ordering some ladybug or preying mantis egg casings... although I think that is mostly a method to assuage your psyche that you're doing the right thing. These are the natural preditors of aphids, white flies, and other insects... I've tried it without much luck, I think they migrated to a neighbor's garden. But to be perfectly honest there is no sure fire organic insect control method... by the time many of the so-called organic methods have some effect your plants will be pretty much skeletonized... you'll get that good feeling that comes with thinking you're doing the right thing but you won't get any roses. Anytime you see a showcase rose garden you can bet your bippee they are using chemical insecticides... if used judiciously they don't cause any problems... choose the correct type and read and follow the directions... I think you can find excellent help at jacksonandperkins.com Write down the names of the products then do a google search for them, add a comma MSDS(,MSDS) (Material Safety Data Sheet). Yes some of these biocides are highly effective at killing your pest, and any other insect inside the perimeter of exposure. In medicine, the injunction is, "First, do no harm", the same should hold true when treating the planet. True, your roses may not look like they just came out of Photoshop but is that so bad? We have grown roses organically for the last thirty years, and if I do say so myself, they very pretty to see. Well, you do a good tell, now do a good show. Missouri |
Systemic pesticide for roses
"David E. Ross" wrote in message et... On 5/4/2009 10:08 PM, Freckles wrote: I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses. I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous. I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the results. Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so dangerous to humans and pets? Thanks, Freckles I use Bayer's Rose & Flower Care, which combines fertilizer and systemic insecticide in a dry granular form. Although I feed my roses every month from March through October, I use this product only every-other month to get excellent results. In the alternating months, I feed my roses with ammonium sulfate. You might instead consider using Bayer's 12 Month Tree & Shrub Insect Control, which is a systemic applied as a soil drench. I used this very successfully to control leaf miners on citrus. It is considered non-toxic to vertebrates (humans, other mammals, birds, reptiles, fish, etc) and is thus safe on edibles. It controls such rose pests as aphid and white fly. I haven't tried this on my own roses. You might call your local agricultural extension to ask about using it. I will be calling my county's agricultural extension when I replace my peach tree to determine if it will control flat-headed bark borers since Lindane is no longer available. NOTE: 12 Month Tree & Shrub Insect Control can be quite expensive; it cost over $20 to give one treatment each to a dwarf lemon and a dwarf orange. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19) Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary Thanks for the information. I just order some Bayer insect control plus fertilizer plant spikes which seem to be just what I want. I've been watching the organic vs. chemical debate for years. I have tried to go organic, but with very limited success. The plant stakes I've ordered seem safe enough and they are not too expensive. Much of the organic materials I've used were a lot more expensive than chemicals and in many cases I needed to use much more of them to get the same results I could have gotten with a few chemicals. If my grand dad had tried to go organic on our farm, we would have starved. Freckles |
Systemic pesticide for roses
On Tue, 5 May 2009 20:30:04 -0500, "Freckles"
wrote: "David E. Ross" wrote in message net... On 5/4/2009 10:08 PM, Freckles wrote: I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses. I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous. I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the results. Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so dangerous to humans and pets? Thanks, Freckles I use Bayer's Rose & Flower Care, which combines fertilizer and systemic insecticide in a dry granular form. Although I feed my roses every month from March through October, I use this product only every-other month to get excellent results. In the alternating months, I feed my roses with ammonium sulfate. You might instead consider using Bayer's 12 Month Tree & Shrub Insect Control, which is a systemic applied as a soil drench. I used this very successfully to control leaf miners on citrus. It is considered non-toxic to vertebrates (humans, other mammals, birds, reptiles, fish, etc) and is thus safe on edibles. It controls such rose pests as aphid and white fly. I haven't tried this on my own roses. You might call your local agricultural extension to ask about using it. I will be calling my county's agricultural extension when I replace my peach tree to determine if it will control flat-headed bark borers since Lindane is no longer available. NOTE: 12 Month Tree & Shrub Insect Control can be quite expensive; it cost over $20 to give one treatment each to a dwarf lemon and a dwarf orange. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19) Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary Thanks for the information. I just order some Bayer insect control plus fertilizer plant spikes which seem to be just what I want. I don't know anything about what you ordered, but I recently fed the roses an "organic" food that my dog couldn't resist eating. I'm thinking about re-applying, but I'll block off his access first. Kate |
Systemic pesticide for roses
On 5/5/2009 6:30 PM, Freckles wrote:
"David E. Ross" wrote in message et... On 5/4/2009 10:08 PM, Freckles wrote: I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses. I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous. I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the results. Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so dangerous to humans and pets? Thanks, Freckles I use Bayer's Rose & Flower Care, which combines fertilizer and systemic insecticide in a dry granular form. Although I feed my roses every month from March through October, I use this product only every-other month to get excellent results. In the alternating months, I feed my roses with ammonium sulfate. You might instead consider using Bayer's 12 Month Tree & Shrub Insect Control, which is a systemic applied as a soil drench. I used this very successfully to control leaf miners on citrus. It is considered non-toxic to vertebrates (humans, other mammals, birds, reptiles, fish, etc) and is thus safe on edibles. It controls such rose pests as aphid and white fly. I haven't tried this on my own roses. You might call your local agricultural extension to ask about using it. I will be calling my county's agricultural extension when I replace my peach tree to determine if it will control flat-headed bark borers since Lindane is no longer available. NOTE: 12 Month Tree & Shrub Insect Control can be quite expensive; it cost over $20 to give one treatment each to a dwarf lemon and a dwarf orange. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19) Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary Thanks for the information. I just order some Bayer insect control plus fertilizer plant spikes which seem to be just what I want. I've been watching the organic vs. chemical debate for years. I have tried to go organic, but with very limited success. The plant stakes I've ordered seem safe enough and they are not too expensive. Much of the organic materials I've used were a lot more expensive than chemicals and in many cases I needed to use much more of them to get the same results I could have gotten with a few chemicals. If my grand dad had tried to go organic on our farm, we would have starved. Freckles Too many people confuse "organic" with "natural". For my comments on this, see my http://www.rossde.com/garden/garden_organic.html. My own gardening practices involve a mix of organic methods and non-organic methods. I produce my own compost (actually, a leaf mold), which I add to my potting mix to inject the mix with the kinds of soil bacteria that are needed to convert nutrients into forms that plant roots can absorb. I use bone meal and blood meal in my potting mix for house plants. I generally wait for ladybugs to deal with aphids. (I don't have to buy and disperse them; they come naturally.) To combat brown snails (Helix aspersa, also known as Cantareus aspersus), I can't use poisonous snail bait because my tortoise would then eat the still toxic dead snails. Instead, I use carnivorous decollate snails (Rumina decollata), which eat the eggs and young of the brown snails. I also wrap copper wire around flower pots containing plants that are especially attractive to brown snails. On the other hand, I feed my roses, citrus, and other plants with chemical fertilizers. After pruning them, I spray my peach, roses, and grapes with a mix of dormant oil and copper sulfate. Newly planted flowering shrubs have super-phosphate dug into the soil below their root balls. Yes, I do use systemic insecticides on my roses and citrus and Roundup on thistles sprouting on my hill. As for my leaf mold, I accelerate its decomposition by adding urea (50-0-0) to the pile. Am I an environmental rogue? I don't think so. Birds and squirrels seem to enjoy my garden. Raccoons steal my grapes. Many, many bees constantly visit my flowers. And Cleopatra -- an endangered California desert tortoise (Gopherus agassizii) -- has happily grazed in my back yard since 1977. (Before you consider reporting me for having a contraband tortoise, Cleopatra is already registered with the California Department of Fish and Game; she is legal.) -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19) Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
Systemic pesticide for roses
On May 5, 1:08*am, "Freckles" wrote:
I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses. I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous. Systemic means it's taken up and circulated within the entire plant. Systemics are really only dangerous if you eat some part of the treated plant. I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the results.. Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so dangerous to humans and pets? For white flies or aphids, insecticidal soap (topical, not systemic) -- homebrew from Bronner's or dish soap works as well as more expensive commercial preps. Don't waste money on commercial soaps with neem, if my experience is any indication. For aphids, lady bugs do a great job and tend to stay put, unlike mantises. |
Systemic pesticide for roses
On Tue, 5 May 2009 00:08:50 -0500, "Freckles"
wrote: I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses. I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous. Anything misused can be dangerous. For example, water can be very dangerous. I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the results. Not all systemic products are sprayed. Spraying can be hazardous due to inhalation. Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so dangerous to humans and pets? There are Rose Food/Systemic products that are applied to the soil, scratched in and the pesticide is taken up by the roots. I use the Ortho product (Bayer makes one too) on my roses only. I am willing to try other remedies, that is, if there is one that I have not tried. Aphids are hard to control. Thanks, Freckles |
Systemic pesticide for roses
On Tue, 05 May 2009 13:09:31 -0400, Sheila
wrote: .... Doesn't Milorganite control deer too? I thought I heard that, if so that a double good. Don't believe it. I used Milorganite over one acre of land, and the deer kept coming. Human hair and Irish Spring don't work either. The things that might protect plants from deer are electric fence fifteen foot fence netting tall grass or wire mesh (chicken wire) on the ground pit bull a lot of deer stew Of course, there are different kinds of deer depending on your location. We have "mule deer" in east TN, they are large with large ears. |
Systemic pesticide for roses
"Sheila" wrote:
Well, we didn't like deer even before we moved here. What's not to like... deer are gentle creatures, they bother no one... I like having deer around. Besides, they supply free fertilizer. \ |
Systemic pesticide for roses
"Phisherman" wrote in message ... On Tue, 5 May 2009 00:08:50 -0500, "Freckles" wrote: I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses. I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous. Anything misused can be dangerous. For example, water can be very dangerous. I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the results. Not all systemic products are sprayed. Spraying can be hazardous due to inhalation. Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so dangerous to humans and pets? There are Rose Food/Systemic products that are applied to the soil, scratched in and the pesticide is taken up by the roots. I use the Ortho product (Bayer makes one too) on my roses only. I am willing to try other remedies, that is, if there is one that I have not tried. Aphids are hard to control. Thanks, Freckles I have ordered Bayer's systemic pesticide/food spikes. Supposedly one just shoves a spike into the ground next to the rose and it will kill pests and feed the plant for up to 2 months. Sprays of all kinds bother me. The thought of breathing any of them scares me. If the spikes work, I think that will be the easiest and safest way to take care of my roses. Freckles |
Systemic pesticide for roses
In article ,
Phisherman wrote: On Tue, 05 May 2009 13:09:31 -0400, Sheila wrote: ... Doesn't Milorganite control deer too? I thought I heard that, if so that a double good. Don't believe it. I used Milorganite over one acre of land, and the deer kept coming. Human hair and Irish Spring don't work either. The things that might protect plants from deer are electric fence fifteen foot fence netting tall grass or wire mesh (chicken wire) on the ground pit bull a lot of deer stew Of course, there are different kinds of deer depending on your location. We have "mule deer" in east TN, they are large with large ears. You didn't mention motion activated sprinklers. -- - Billy "For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html |
Systemic pesticide for roses
In article ,
Phisherman wrote: On Tue, 5 May 2009 00:08:50 -0500, "Freckles" wrote: I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses. I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous. Anything misused can be dangerous. For example, water can be very dangerous. I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the results. Not all systemic products are sprayed. Spraying can be hazardous due to inhalation. Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so dangerous to humans and pets? There are Rose Food/Systemic products that are applied to the soil, scratched in and the pesticide is taken up by the roots. I use the Ortho product (Bayer makes one too) on my roses only. I am willing to try other remedies, that is, if there is one that I have not tried. Aphids are hard to control. Thanks, Freckles Yes, enough soapy water could be dangerous, but that's not what we are talking about. Why don't you look up the MSDS on the products that you suggest and see what their environmental impact is? When the oil runs out, top soil will be the only thing between us and starvation. Try to save a bit of it. It's disappearing very quickly. -- - Billy "For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html |
Systemic pesticide for roses
In article
, Frank wrote: Systemic means it's taken up and circulated within the entire plant. Systemics are really only dangerous if you eat some part of the treated plant. ANd the environment Frank? How does it affect the environment Frank? What could the downside be? MSDS is your friend, just like google. -- - Billy "For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html |
Systemic pesticide for roses
In article ,
"Freckles" wrote: I use Bayer's Rose & Flower Care http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles...yphosate/disul foton-ext.html ACUTE TOXICITY Disulfoton is very highly toxic to all mammals by all routes of exposure. It is labeled with a DANGER signal word. Whether absorbed through the skin, ingested, or inhaled, early symptoms in humans may include blurred vision, fatigue, headache, dizziness, sweating, tearing, and salivation. Symptoms occurring at high doses include defecation, urination, fluid accumulation in the lungs, convulsions, or coma. Death can occur if high enough doses lead to stoppage of respiratory muscles and/or constriction of the windpipes. Ingestion of high doses can lead to rapid onset of effects on the stomach while symptoms resulting from skin exposure may be delayed for up to 12 hours. Complete recovery from acute poisoning takes at least one week, but complete restoration of the blood to normal enzyme (cholinestrase) levels may take up to three months (9). The oral LD50 ranges from 6.2 to 12.5 mg/kg in male rats and from 1.9 to 2.5 mg/kg in female rats (12, 10). Weanling male rats have an oral LD50 of 5.4 mg/kg (10, 5). The dermal LD50 is 3.6 mg/kg for female rats and 15.9 mg/kg for male rats (4, 10). The inhalation LC50 for one hour is 180 ppb for male rats, and 90 ug/L for female rats (3). CHRONIC TOXICITY Disulfoton is rapidly absorbed through the skin. This chemical inhibits cholinesterase, and, as a result, may affect the eyes, respiratory system, and central nervous system (9). Continual daily absorption may cause flu-like symptoms, loss of appetite, weakness, and uneasiness. While repeated exposure to disulfoton may inhibit the cholinesterase enzyme and thus interfere with the nervous system, 30-day human exposures have not resulted in significant enzyme inhibition (10). Workers chronically exposed to organo-phosphates, of which disulfoton is a member, have developed irritability, delayed reaction times, anxiety, slowness of thinking, and memory defects (9). Chronic exposure of workers may also lead to cataracts. Rats have survived daily doses of 0.5 mg/kg/day for 90 days. Some studies have shown that rats can acquire a tolerance for the chemical, so they are able to adjust to the lower cholinesterase levels resulting from chronic lower level exposures (8). Reproductive Effects In a long-term reproduction study, 98.5% pure disulfoton was fed at doses ranging from 0.05 to 0.5 mg/kg/day to both male and female albino rats. At the high dose, the number of animals per litter was reduced by 21% in the first and third generations and a 10 to 25% lower pregnancy rate was noted. Some third-generation litters whose parents were exposed to this dose, developed fatty deposits and swelling in their livers. Exposed adults and litters had a 60% to 70% inhibition of red blood cell cholinesterase (10). This suggests that long-term exposures to high doses of disulfoton may cause reproductive effects in humans. Teratogenic Effects In one study, pregnant rats were given disulfoton (98.2% pure) at doses ranging from 0.1 to 1.0 mg/kg/day through a stomach tube during the sensitive period of gestation. Cholinesterase activity was decreased. In the fetuses, no developmental defects were seen except at high doses, where incomplete bone development was noted (4, 10). In another study, rabbits were given disulfoton (97.3% pure) during the sensitive period. At the higher doses (1.5 and 2.0 mg/kg/day), the mothers experienced tremors, incoordination, and death, while fetal growth was not affected (10). These studies indicate that disulfoton is very unlikely to cause birth defects in humans. ECOLOGICAL EFFECTS Disulfoton-containing products are highly toxic to cold and warm fish, crab, shrimp, birds, and other wildlife (7, 8). The acute dietary LC50 for disulfoton in mallard ducks is 692 mg/kg, and 544 mg/kg in quail. The EPA has stated that use of disulfoton on certain crops may pose a risk to some aquatic and terrestrial endangered species (17). ------ You people don't have a clue as to what your doing and your mindlessness affects everyone. -- - Billy "For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html |
Systemic pesticide for roses
In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote: Did I mention southern Californians passion for posing and a complete disconnect with reality? How's the Nobel Prize coming along David? On 5/5/2009 6:30 PM, Freckles wrote: "David E. Ross" wrote in message et... On 5/4/2009 10:08 PM, Freckles wrote: I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses. I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous. I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the results. Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so dangerous to humans and pets? Thanks, Freckles I use Bayer's Rose & Flower Care, which combines fertilizer and systemic insecticide in a dry granular form. Although I feed my roses every month from March through October, I use this product only every-other month to get excellent results. In the alternating months, I feed my roses with ammonium sulfate. You might instead consider using Bayer's 12 Month Tree & Shrub Insect Control, which is a systemic applied as a soil drench. I used this very successfully to control leaf miners on citrus. It is considered non-toxic to vertebrates (humans, other mammals, birds, reptiles, fish, etc) and is thus safe on edibles. It controls such rose pests as aphid and white fly. I haven't tried this on my own roses. You might call your local agricultural extension to ask about using it. I will be calling my county's agricultural extension when I replace my peach tree to determine if it will control flat-headed bark borers since Lindane is no longer available. NOTE: 12 Month Tree & Shrub Insect Control can be quite expensive; it cost over $20 to give one treatment each to a dwarf lemon and a dwarf orange. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19) Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary Thanks for the information. I just order some Bayer insect control plus fertilizer plant spikes which seem to be just what I want. I've been watching the organic vs. chemical debate for years. I have tried to go organic, but with very limited success. The plant stakes I've ordered seem safe enough and they are not too expensive. Much of the organic materials I've used were a lot more expensive than chemicals and in many cases I needed to use much more of them to get the same results I could have gotten with a few chemicals. If my grand dad had tried to go organic on our farm, we would have starved. Freckles Too many people confuse "organic" with "natural". For my comments on this, see my http://www.rossde.com/garden/garden_organic.html. My own gardening practices involve a mix of organic methods and non-organic methods. I produce my own compost (actually, a leaf mold), which I add to my potting mix to inject the mix with the kinds of soil bacteria that are needed to convert nutrients into forms that plant roots can absorb. I use bone meal and blood meal in my potting mix for house plants. I generally wait for ladybugs to deal with aphids. (I don't have to buy and disperse them; they come naturally.) To combat brown snails (Helix aspersa, also known as Cantareus aspersus), I can't use poisonous snail bait because my tortoise would then eat the still toxic dead snails. Instead, I use carnivorous decollate snails (Rumina decollata), which eat the eggs and young of the brown snails. I also wrap copper wire around flower pots containing plants that are especially attractive to brown snails. On the other hand, I feed my roses, citrus, and other plants with chemical fertilizers. After pruning them, I spray my peach, roses, and grapes with a mix of dormant oil and copper sulfate. Newly planted flowering shrubs have super-phosphate dug into the soil below their root balls. Yes, I do use systemic insecticides on my roses and citrus and Roundup on thistles sprouting on my hill. As for my leaf mold, I accelerate its decomposition by adding urea (50-0-0) to the pile. Am I an environmental rogue? I don't think so. Birds and squirrels seem to enjoy my garden. Raccoons steal my grapes. Many, many bees constantly visit my flowers. And Cleopatra -- an endangered California desert tortoise (Gopherus agassizii) -- has happily grazed in my back yard since 1977. (Before you consider reporting me for having a contraband tortoise, Cleopatra is already registered with the California Department of Fish and Game; she is legal.) -- - Billy "For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html |
Systemic pesticide for roses
In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote: No, toxics are not the answer to all questions about why bad things happen. You can't blame insecticides for every bad thing. You're right. People kill people. -- - Billy "For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html |
Systemic pesticide for roses
On Tue, 5 May 2009 20:30:04 -0500, "Freckles"
wrote: I just order some Bayer insect control plus fertilizer plant spikes which seem to be just what I want. It should work, follow directions. Roses can require heavy maintenance so I have only three Don Juan climbers, planted in 1994. Perhaps keeping my roses toxic have kept the deer from eating them sigh. |
Systemic pesticide for roses
|
Systemic pesticide for roses
Charlie wrote in message ... On Tue, 5 May 2009 20:30:04 -0500, "Freckles" wrote: I just order some Bayer insect control plus fertilizer plant spikes which seem to be just what I want. Bayer.....patoooie and effem. Baby and bee killing bastids. I worked for those effers for four years in the late seventies and early eighties, (and am still ashamed to admit to being a Magic Christian during that period) and they dealt death. Worse now. I've been watching the organic vs. chemical debate for years. I have tried to go organic, but with very limited success. Then your processes and understanding were/are flawed. The plant stakes I've ordered seem safe enough and they are not too expensive. Much of the organic materials I've used were a lot more expensive than chemicals and in many cases I needed to use much more of them to get the same results I could have gotten with a few chemicals. Less more, less more....."Better Things for Better Living...Through Chemistry." DuPont (and dow and monsatano and on and on) You don't just substitute organic "stuff" for deadly stuff to achieve health and balance. Your understanding of soil health and organic is lacking. If my grand dad had tried to go organic on our farm, we would have starved. FKN bullshit. You don't understand organic and/or soil health. How old are you? When was your grand-dad "farming"? Educate yourself. Make a commitment to planetary health and view your prcesses in that light. I'm fkn sick of excuses like, I grow stuff that shouldn't be grown here, so I gotta use poison, or it's too much work and expense to grow safe and healthy food. Gawd, the list goes on and on and on......ad nauseum. What the hell is wrong with all you chemical-head ignoramuses? Charlie Another ignorant fanatic heard from! If it were not for those dangerous chemicals, as you like to call them, there would be even more millions of people starving. than there are now. Most, if not all, of the medicines used to combat illnesses and ailments are dangerous, but we still take them. I guess you refrain from taking such medicines because of their harm to the environment. Ha Maybe you think organic farmers can supply enough food to feed the world. How ignorant! Besides, this is a gardening newsgroup, not an organic only group. If you don't like what you read here, go elsewhere and stick your head in the sand there. In other words get lost asshole! |
Systemic pesticide for roses
brooklyn1 wrote:
"Sheila" wrote: Well, we didn't like deer even before we moved here. What's not to like... deer are gentle creatures, they bother no one... I like having deer around. Besides, they supply free fertilizer. \ They may supply free fertilizer, but you won't have anything to fertilize. -- Sheila http://swdalton.com |
Systemic pesticide for roses
Phisherman wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2009 13:09:31 -0400, Sheila wrote: ... Doesn't Milorganite control deer too? I thought I heard that, if so that a double good. Don't believe it. I used Milorganite over one acre of land, and the deer kept coming. Human hair and Irish Spring don't work either. The things that might protect plants from deer are electric fence fifteen foot fence netting tall grass or wire mesh (chicken wire) on the ground pit bull a lot of deer stew Of course, there are different kinds of deer depending on your location. We have "mule deer" in east TN, they are large with large ears. A 5 wire electric fence finally fixed the problem. -- Sheila http://swdalton.com |
Systemic pesticide for roses
On 5/6/2009 6:54 PM, Billy wrote:
In article , "Freckles" wrote: I use Bayer's Rose & Flower Care http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles...yphosate/disul foton-ext.html ACUTE TOXICITY Disulfoton is very highly toxic to all mammals by all routes of exposure. It is labeled with a DANGER signal word. Whether absorbed through the skin, ingested, or inhaled, early symptoms in humans may include blurred vision, fatigue, headache, dizziness, sweating, tearing, and salivation. Symptoms occurring at high doses include defecation, urination, fluid accumulation in the lungs, convulsions, or coma. Death can occur if high enough doses lead to stoppage of respiratory muscles and/or constriction of the windpipes. Ingestion of high doses can lead to rapid onset of effects on the stomach while symptoms resulting from skin exposure may be delayed for up to 12 hours. Complete recovery from acute poisoning takes at least one week, but complete restoration of the blood to normal enzyme (cholinestrase) levels may take up to three months (9). The oral LD50 ranges from 6.2 to 12.5 mg/kg in male rats and from 1.9 to 2.5 mg/kg in female rats (12, 10). Weanling male rats have an oral LD50 of 5.4 mg/kg (10, 5). The dermal LD50 is 3.6 mg/kg for female rats and 15.9 mg/kg for male rats (4, 10). The inhalation LC50 for one hour is 180 ppb for male rats, and 90 ug/L for female rats (3). CHRONIC TOXICITY Disulfoton is rapidly absorbed through the skin. This chemical inhibits cholinesterase, and, as a result, may affect the eyes, respiratory system, and central nervous system (9). Continual daily absorption may cause flu-like symptoms, loss of appetite, weakness, and uneasiness. While repeated exposure to disulfoton may inhibit the cholinesterase enzyme and thus interfere with the nervous system, 30-day human exposures have not resulted in significant enzyme inhibition (10). Workers chronically exposed to organo-phosphates, of which disulfoton is a member, have developed irritability, delayed reaction times, anxiety, slowness of thinking, and memory defects (9). Chronic exposure of workers may also lead to cataracts. Rats have survived daily doses of 0.5 mg/kg/day for 90 days. Some studies have shown that rats can acquire a tolerance for the chemical, so they are able to adjust to the lower cholinesterase levels resulting from chronic lower level exposures (8). Reproductive Effects In a long-term reproduction study, 98.5% pure disulfoton was fed at doses ranging from 0.05 to 0.5 mg/kg/day to both male and female albino rats. At the high dose, the number of animals per litter was reduced by 21% in the first and third generations and a 10 to 25% lower pregnancy rate was noted. Some third-generation litters whose parents were exposed to this dose, developed fatty deposits and swelling in their livers. Exposed adults and litters had a 60% to 70% inhibition of red blood cell cholinesterase (10). This suggests that long-term exposures to high doses of disulfoton may cause reproductive effects in humans. Teratogenic Effects In one study, pregnant rats were given disulfoton (98.2% pure) at doses ranging from 0.1 to 1.0 mg/kg/day through a stomach tube during the sensitive period of gestation. Cholinesterase activity was decreased. In the fetuses, no developmental defects were seen except at high doses, where incomplete bone development was noted (4, 10). In another study, rabbits were given disulfoton (97.3% pure) during the sensitive period. At the higher doses (1.5 and 2.0 mg/kg/day), the mothers experienced tremors, incoordination, and death, while fetal growth was not affected (10). These studies indicate that disulfoton is very unlikely to cause birth defects in humans. ECOLOGICAL EFFECTS Disulfoton-containing products are highly toxic to cold and warm fish, crab, shrimp, birds, and other wildlife (7, 8). The acute dietary LC50 for disulfoton in mallard ducks is 692 mg/kg, and 544 mg/kg in quail. The EPA has stated that use of disulfoton on certain crops may pose a risk to some aquatic and terrestrial endangered species (17). ------ You people don't have a clue as to what your doing and your mindlessness affects everyone. You don't have a clue as to what others are doing. When I use Bayer's Rose & Flower Care, I dig it into the soil. No, I'm not concerned at all about its effect on ground water. Because of NATURAL minerals, the ground water in my area is toxic and unfit even for irrigation, let alone unfit for human or animal ingestion. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19) Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
Systemic pesticide for roses
Charlie wrote in message ... On Wed, 6 May 2009 20:19:34 -0500, "Freckles" wrote: "Phisherman" wrote in message . .. On Tue, 5 May 2009 00:08:50 -0500, "Freckles" wrote: I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses. I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous. Anything misused can be dangerous. For example, water can be very dangerous. I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the results. Not all systemic products are sprayed. Spraying can be hazardous due to inhalation. Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so dangerous to humans and pets? There are Rose Food/Systemic products that are applied to the soil, scratched in and the pesticide is taken up by the roots. I use the Ortho product (Bayer makes one too) on my roses only. I am willing to try other remedies, that is, if there is one that I have not tried. Aphids are hard to control. Thanks, Freckles I have ordered Bayer's systemic pesticide/food spikes. Thanks for supporting a company that is poisoning my grandchildren and the pollinators and a lot of other living things. Supposedly one just shoves a spike into the ground next to the rose and it will kill pests and feed the plant for up to 2 months. Sprays of all kinds bother me. The thought of breathing any of them scares me. For Eff's sake......putting them in the water supply doesn't scare you? If the spikes work, I think that will be the easiest and safest way to take care of my roses. Educate yourself, and/or quit trying to grow stuff that perhaps shouldn't be grown. Damn. If you think you have a problen with Bayer and their products complain to your congressmen and Senators. |
Systemic pesticide for roses
On 5/6/2009 6:19 PM, Freckles wrote:
I have ordered Bayer's systemic pesticide/food spikes. Supposedly one just shoves a spike into the ground next to the rose and it will kill pests and feed the plant for up to 2 months. Sprays of all kinds bother me. The thought of breathing any of them scares me. If the spikes work, I think that will be the easiest and safest way to take care of my roses. Freckles I use Bayer's granular Rose & Flower Care so that I can spread it over much of each plant's root zone. I dig it in so that passing birds won't think it's gravel for their digestion. When you use spikes, be sure to focus your watering in an area around each spike. Don't over-water. While roses like a lot of water, they don't like a soggy soil. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19) Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
Systemic pesticide for roses
"see Organization header" (see Organization header)" wrote in message et... On 5/6/2009 6:19 PM, Freckles wrote: I have ordered Bayer's systemic pesticide/food spikes. Supposedly one just shoves a spike into the ground next to the rose and it will kill pests and feed the plant for up to 2 months. Sprays of all kinds bother me. The thought of breathing any of them scares me. If the spikes work, I think that will be the easiest and safest way to take care of my roses. Freckles I use Bayer's granular Rose & Flower Care so that I can spread it over much of each plant's root zone. I dig it in so that passing birds won't think it's gravel for their digestion. When you use spikes, be sure to focus your watering in an area around each spike. Don't over-water. While roses like a lot of water, they don't like a soggy soil. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19) Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary About 25 years ago I lived in Culver City, California. I had a rose garden with about a dozen T roses. They grew beautifully and I never had to use any pesticides or anything else except for an occasional dose of fertilizer. Texas is a different story. |
Systemic pesticide for roses
Charlie wrote in message ... On Wed, 6 May 2009 22:28:23 -0500, "Freckles" wrote: Charlie wrote in message . .. On Wed, 6 May 2009 20:19:34 -0500, "Freckles" wrote: "Phisherman" wrote in message m... On Tue, 5 May 2009 00:08:50 -0500, "Freckles" wrote: I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses. I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous. Anything misused can be dangerous. For example, water can be very dangerous. I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the results. Not all systemic products are sprayed. Spraying can be hazardous due to inhalation. Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so dangerous to humans and pets? There are Rose Food/Systemic products that are applied to the soil, scratched in and the pesticide is taken up by the roots. I use the Ortho product (Bayer makes one too) on my roses only. I am willing to try other remedies, that is, if there is one that I have not tried. Aphids are hard to control. Thanks, Freckles I have ordered Bayer's systemic pesticide/food spikes. Thanks for supporting a company that is poisoning my grandchildren and the pollinators and a lot of other living things. Supposedly one just shoves a spike into the ground next to the rose and it will kill pests and feed the plant for up to 2 months. Sprays of all kinds bother me. The thought of breathing any of them scares me. For Eff's sake......putting them in the water supply doesn't scare you? If the spikes work, I think that will be the easiest and safest way to take care of my roses. Educate yourself, and/or quit trying to grow stuff that perhaps shouldn't be grown. Damn. If you think you have a problen with Bayer and their products complain to your congressmen and Senators. Nah, I don't *think* I have a problem with Bayer and their products, I *do* have a problem with them. Been complaining to representatives for years and you see where we are. Listen kid, you need to educate yourself about the political and economic wonders of the U$ and the world, as well as several other subjects. You know anything about the history of Bayer, their products, their financial and political ties, yada yada? I doubt it. Hmmm...now that you mention it, should I start writing my congresscritters about the condition of education and independent thinking in the U$? Now, get off the damned Usenet and go resume your studies, kid. Charlie Thanks for calling me kid, but since I'm 71 I don't think the shoe fits. I also have an extensive education including academics and personal experiences. I wonder how much better off we would all be if fanatics like your self would quit disrupting scientist and let them conduct humane experiments on animals. Perhaps they could find cures for many horrible diseases and even find products that could replace some of the "dangerous" chemicals you seem so concerned about. But a fanatic is a fanatic no matter their cause. |
Systemic pesticide for roses
Charlie wrote in message ... On Wed, 6 May 2009 23:29:40 -0500, "Freckles" wrote: Charlie wrote in message . .. On Wed, 6 May 2009 22:28:23 -0500, "Freckles" wrote: Charlie wrote in message m... On Wed, 6 May 2009 20:19:34 -0500, "Freckles" wrote: "Phisherman" wrote in message news:a99405lomiq2gqep6ei6jua9qtupqqntos@4ax. com... On Tue, 5 May 2009 00:08:50 -0500, "Freckles" wrote: I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses. I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous. Anything misused can be dangerous. For example, water can be very dangerous. I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the results. Not all systemic products are sprayed. Spraying can be hazardous due to inhalation. Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so dangerous to humans and pets? There are Rose Food/Systemic products that are applied to the soil, scratched in and the pesticide is taken up by the roots. I use the Ortho product (Bayer makes one too) on my roses only. I am willing to try other remedies, that is, if there is one that I have not tried. Aphids are hard to control. Thanks, Freckles I have ordered Bayer's systemic pesticide/food spikes. Thanks for supporting a company that is poisoning my grandchildren and the pollinators and a lot of other living things. Supposedly one just shoves a spike into the ground next to the rose and it will kill pests and feed the plant for up to 2 months. Sprays of all kinds bother me. The thought of breathing any of them scares me. For Eff's sake......putting them in the water supply doesn't scare you? If the spikes work, I think that will be the easiest and safest way to take care of my roses. Educate yourself, and/or quit trying to grow stuff that perhaps shouldn't be grown. Damn. If you think you have a problen with Bayer and their products complain to your congressmen and Senators. Nah, I don't *think* I have a problem with Bayer and their products, I *do* have a problem with them. Been complaining to representatives for years and you see where we are. Listen kid, you need to educate yourself about the political and economic wonders of the U$ and the world, as well as several other subjects. You know anything about the history of Bayer, their products, their financial and political ties, yada yada? I doubt it. Hmmm...now that you mention it, should I start writing my congresscritters about the condition of education and independent thinking in the U$? Now, get off the damned Usenet and go resume your studies, kid. Charlie Thanks for calling me kid, but since I'm 71 I don't think the shoe fits. I also have an extensive education including academics and personal experiences. Uh, yeah....ok, if you say so. I guess I wasn't able to glean that from your, uh, responses. I wonder how much better off we would all be if fanatics like your self would quit disrupting scientist and let them conduct humane experiments on animals. Perhaps they could find cures for many horrible diseases and even find products that could replace some of the "dangerous" chemicals you seem so concerned about. Thank you for providing this key to understanding more about from whence you cometh. I'm even less impressed now. Was I trying to impress you? Why? You are an ignorant twit. But a fanatic is a fanatic no matter their cause. See previous response for qualifiers for fanatic....uncritical, unreasoning...... Charlie |
Systemic pesticide for roses
On 5/6/2009 10:03 PM, Charlie wrote:
On Wed, 06 May 2009 18:58:36 -0700, Billy wrote: In article , "David E. Ross" wrote: No, toxics are not the answer to all questions about why bad things happen. You can't blame insecticides for every bad thing. You're right. People kill people. Ignorance kills people. And greed. He is concerned about *his* tortoise, doesn't want to poison it with toxins, but has no concerns about systemically poisoning children via the groundwater, etc. Typical. All about me and mine, who gives a shit about them. Feh! Charlie As I already wrote, NATURAL minerals have made the ground water in this area naturally toxic. It is unfit for irrigating crops, let alone drinking by humans or animals. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19) Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
Systemic pesticide for roses
"Freckles" wrote
"Jangchub" wrote Left in tact. Now for another moronic story. **** that puta who gave her Sevin. Do you think the chemicals used to fight cancer are safe? Why are you asking someone who thinks *intact* is two words, knows to spell ******, thinks others are *moronic*, and can't properly construct a sentence? |
Systemic pesticide for roses
"brooklyn1" wrote in message ... "Freckles" wrote "Jangchub" wrote Left in tact. Now for another moronic story. **** that puta who gave her Sevin. Do you think the chemicals used to fight cancer are safe? Why are you asking someone who thinks *intact* is two words, knows to spell ******, thinks others are *moronic*, and can't properly construct a sentence? That was a mistake, wasn't it? |
Systemic pesticide for roses
"Sheila" wrote
brooklyn1 wrote: "Sheila" wrote: Well, we didn't like deer even before we moved here. What's not to like... deer are gentle creatures, they bother no one... I like having deer around. Besides, they supply free fertilizer. They may supply free fertilizer, but you won't have anything to fertilize. I only wish they'd eat more and faster, I'd have less to mow. And this is about as organic as it gets: http://i44.tinypic.com/2w3ukqd.jpg I don't know... nothing to fertilize... looks mighty green to me: http://i43.tinypic.com/w1a1x3.jpg And I can plant whatever I want and do, just not what the critters like where they can get to it... do you leave big bowls of M&Ms out where your obese kids can get to it, jugs of booze where your alkie hubby can get to it, would you leave tonight's burgers out where your dog can get to it... of course not, and only an idiot would plant deer's favorite greenery within their easy access. And if you don't like the deer you should have stayed in your inner city tenement appartment, the muggers wouldn't bother your potted fern. |
Systemic pesticide for roses
brooklyn1 wrote:
"Sheila" wrote brooklyn1 wrote: "Sheila" wrote: Well, we didn't like deer even before we moved here. What's not to like... deer are gentle creatures, they bother no one... I like having deer around. Besides, they supply free fertilizer. They may supply free fertilizer, but you won't have anything to fertilize. I only wish they'd eat more and faster, I'd have less to mow. And this is about as organic as it gets: http://i44.tinypic.com/2w3ukqd.jpg I don't know... nothing to fertilize... looks mighty green to me: http://i43.tinypic.com/w1a1x3.jpg And I can plant whatever I want and do, just not what the critters like where they can get to it... do you leave big bowls of M&Ms out where your obese kids can get to it, jugs of booze where your alkie hubby can get to it, would you leave tonight's burgers out where your dog can get to it... of course not, and only an idiot would plant deer's favorite greenery within their easy access. And if you don't like the deer you should have stayed in your inner city tenement appartment, the muggers wouldn't bother your potted fern. Sorry, I never lived in an inner city tenement apartment, did you? It looks to me like you have to have fences around what you plant too, at least we don't have to fence our new trees. -- Sheila http://swdalton.com |
Systemic pesticide for roses
"Sheila" wrote: at least we don't have to fence our new trees. Depends on the tree and its size... fruit trees, whether ornamental or not, are at greater risk... but after like five years the saplings grow tall enough that the fences can be removed. I don't mind the fences, if it's something I want to grow and don't want eaten by critters then I fence... there'd be no way for me to have a vegetable garden otherwise. And still there are the birds, so I also net. I'm not into conservatory gardening. |
Systemic pesticide for roses
On 5/7/2009 6:54 AM, Charlie wrote:
On Wed, 06 May 2009 22:28:04 -0700, see Organization header (see Organization header)" wrote: On 5/6/2009 10:03 PM, Charlie wrote: On Wed, 06 May 2009 18:58:36 -0700, Billy wrote: In article , "David E. Ross" wrote: No, toxics are not the answer to all questions about why bad things happen. You can't blame insecticides for every bad thing. You're right. People kill people. Ignorance kills people. And greed. He is concerned about *his* tortoise, doesn't want to poison it with toxins, but has no concerns about systemically poisoning children via the groundwater, etc. Typical. All about me and mine, who gives a shit about them. Feh! Charlie As I already wrote, NATURAL minerals have made the ground water in this area naturally toxic. It is unfit for irrigating crops, let alone drinking by humans or animals. Which minerals are causing the toxicity and is their source naturally occuring or a result of man's activity? Mostly NATURAL sufites and sulfates. (How many times do I have to say that they occur naturally?) There are also nodules of phosphate that explode spontaneously. When schools were built in my community, the grading contractor had to dig down about 5 ft and haul away the native soil. Then, he had to bring in soil from elsewhere to fill the holes. It was considered unsafe to build a school on the native soil. During a drought about 20 years ago, it was suggested to augment our water supply (imported from northern California) with well water. Even mixing only 1 part well water with 9 parts imported water would yield a witch's brew that could not be used for drinking. Not all toxics in our environment are the result of human activity. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19) Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
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