apple trees from seed
 

wrote:
brooklyn1 writes:

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:12:03 -0700, "DEM" wrote:

how in the heck did Johnny Appleseed do it?

Donna
in WA
Legend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Appleseed

From same article:

Some even make the claim that the Rambo was "Johnny Appleseed's favorite
variety", ignoring that he had religious objections to grafting and
preferred wild apples to all named varieties. It appears most nurseries
are calling the tree the "Johnny Appleseed" variety, rather than a
Rambo. Unlike the mid-summer Rambo, the Johnny Appleseed variety ripens
in September and is a baking/applesauce variety similar to an Albemarle
Pippen.

So it appears, Johnny Appleseed did plant seeds, and was content to live
with the results.



You weren't supposed to notice that.

Bob

apple trees from seed
 

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:25:16 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

wrote:
brooklyn1 writes:

On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:12:03 -0700, "DEM" wrote:

how in the heck did Johnny Appleseed do it?

Donna
in WA
Legend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Appleseed

From same article:

Some even make the claim that the Rambo was "Johnny Appleseed's favorite
variety", ignoring that he had religious objections to grafting and
preferred wild apples to all named varieties. It appears most nurseries
are calling the tree the "Johnny Appleseed" variety, rather than a
Rambo. Unlike the mid-summer Rambo, the Johnny Appleseed variety ripens
in September and is a baking/applesauce variety similar to an Albemarle
Pippen.

So it appears, Johnny Appleseed did plant seeds, and was content to live
with the results.


The results are what's subjective.

You weren't supposed to notice that.



Now you're being silly... also mentions how all JA trees are now from
grafts. Fact is that from other net sources much about JA is myth...
and fact is that way back then (when horticulture was barely hocus
pocus) apples were not eaten out of hand, they were used to make
booze... any crappy fruit can be used to make booze.... the grape wine
folks pay big bucks for is made from grapes unsuitable to be eaten out
of hand.

http://americanhistory.suite101.com/...hnny_appleseed

apple trees from seed
 

DEM wrote:
how in the heck did Johnny Appleseed do it?

Donna
in WA

Johnny Appleseed gathered much of his seeds from
Cider Press locations. Yes, he planted many of
these seeds.

However, the pioneers and farmers who used these
apple trees did not grow them for eating out of
hand. Almost all of them were turned into cider,
which disguises a lot of problems, or they were
used to feed the animals.

Sherwin

apple trees from seed
 

"sherwin dubren" wrote in message

Johnny Appleseed gathered much of his seeds from
Cider Press locations. Yes, he planted many of
these seeds.

However, the pioneers and farmers who used these
apple trees did not grow them for eating out of
hand. Almost all of them were turned into cider,
which disguises a lot of problems, or they were
used to feed the animals.

If you know that, then you might also know that cider varieties are not the
same as eating apples.

The impact of this on seedling apples down through the years because of
cider apple varieties will be..........???? (NB: this is a rhetorical
question)

Each time this subject comes up, you insist that seedling apples will not be
worth eating.

Each time this subject comes up I similarly insist that the apples from
seedling I access are quite edibvle and sometimes really superb eating.

Localised conditions can impact on progeny.

apple trees from seed
 

brooklyn1 wrote in
:

any crappy fruit can be used to make
booze....

WRONG! crappy fruit makes crappy booze. but you love your Boone's
Farm & wouldn't know good cider if it bit you in the ass
lee

apple trees from seed
 

sherwin dubren wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:
sherwin dubren wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:


There are two reasons why you might not get a tree that you like.

One is that if the original was grafted (and the seedling obviously
isn't) the different root stock may change the nature of the tree
and its hardiness, although it shouldn't have much direct effect
on the fruit. The second is that when grown from seed there is a
degree of genetic variation due to random recombination of genes
from the parents, this is more marked if the pollinator is another
variety.

I would add that the odds of getting a decent apple from a planted
seed are almost too small to make it worthwhile. I have seen
figures of one in ten thousand will work.


That's interesting can you recall where you saw that?

David

I have seen it in several places.

Here is one I can remember in which they say the following:

There are some 18,000 apple trees in the U of M's breeding orchards.
The university has one of the three largest apple breeding programs in
the country.

For every 10,000 trees, he may only get one producing apples good
enough for release.

The reference is as follows:


http://wcco.com/findingminnesota/u.a...ectflash=false

Notably, they are talking about apples good enough for release, but
I think this is an indication of the low success rate in growing
decent apples from seed. However, these guys are experts and are
picking out the best candidates to get even these meager results.

Sherwin

Thanks

David

apple trees from seed
 

FarmI wrote:
"sherwin dubren" wrote in message

Johnny Appleseed gathered much of his seeds from
Cider Press locations. Yes, he planted many of
these seeds.

However, the pioneers and farmers who used these
apple trees did not grow them for eating out of
hand. Almost all of them were turned into cider,
which disguises a lot of problems, or they were
used to feed the animals.

If you know that, then you might also know that cider varieties are not the
same as eating apples.

There are no hard fast rules about certain apples being better for
cider. Some are specifically designated as cider apples and for the
most part, they are not better for much else.


The impact of this on seedling apples down through the years because of
cider apple varieties will be..........???? (NB: this is a rhetorical
question)

Each time this subject comes up, you insist that seedling apples will not be
worth eating.

Each time this subject comes up I similarly insist that the apples from
seedling I access are quite edibvle and sometimes really superb eating.

You obviously have different taste buds that most people. Quit
encouraging people to grow apples from seeds. It wastes their time
and is a big dissappointment after years of effort in raising them.

By the way, which varieties have you planted from seed that you think
came out ok?


Sherwin

Localised conditions can impact on progeny.

apple trees from seed
 

DEM wrote:
"Karen" wrote in message
...
On Sep 16, 6:08 pm, "DEM" wrote:
My semi-dwarf apple trees were bought by a local nursery as were my
semi-dwarf cherries trees. I'm hoping to have some fruit next year on
both.

The seeds I planted and actually grew (not a natural green thumber)
were all from decades old trees....at least 50 years old or older.
They just don't make em like this any more and I'm old enough :( to
know that....so since they're growing anyway, I'll just wait and see
what happens.

Who knows....maybe nothing. But it's worth the try.

Maybe you should market those seeds, or seedlings?

Karen

Not a bad idea. Was in touch with a company that
wanted a branch from an old 75+ year King apple
tree. Oh how I loved those apples as a child.

I just made cider from a neighbor's apples that I think were Kings. I used to
have a tree of kings, which fell over a few years ago. This cider is REALLY
good.

There are a few kings in the Piper orchard in Carkeek park in NW Seattle.

apple trees from seed
 

enigma wrote:
brooklyn1 wrote in
:

any crappy fruit can be used to make
booze....

WRONG! crappy fruit makes crappy booze. but you love your Boone's
Farm & wouldn't know good cider if it bit you in the ass
lee

My understanding is that for making hard cider, the best apples are not the same
as the apples people like to eat. Crabapples, for instance are a positive
addition to a batch.

apple trees from seed
 

On Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:34:02 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

enigma wrote:
brooklyn1 wrote in
:

any crappy fruit can be used to make
booze....

WRONG! crappy fruit makes crappy booze. but you love your Boone's
Farm & wouldn't know good cider if it bit you in the ass
lee

My understanding is that for making hard cider, the best apples are not the same
as the apples people like to eat. Crabapples, for instance are a positive
addition to a batch.


When I said booze I literally meant booze... any apples, the worst
eating apples are great for making jack... doesn't even need to be all
apples, add some currants for color... I once blew up a heavy duty 5
gallon stainless steel vacuum bottle making apple jack from dehy
apples and raisins (forgot to crack the vent).

apple trees from seed
 

"sherwin dubren" wrote in message
FarmI wrote:
"sherwin dubren" wrote in message

Johnny Appleseed gathered much of his seeds from
Cider Press locations. Yes, he planted many of
these seeds.

However, the pioneers and farmers who used these
apple trees did not grow them for eating out of
hand. Almost all of them were turned into cider,
which disguises a lot of problems, or they were
used to feed the animals.

If you know that, then you might also know that cider varieties are not
the same as eating apples.

There are no hard fast rules about certain apples being better for
cider. Some are specifically designated as cider apples and for the
most part, they are not better for much else.


The impact of this on seedling apples down through the years because of
cider apple varieties will be..........???? (NB: this is a rhetorical
question)

Each time this subject comes up, you insist that seedling apples will not
be worth eating.

Each time this subject comes up I similarly insist that the apples from
seedling I access are quite edibvle and sometimes really superb eating.

You obviously have different taste buds that most people.

No, we don't. We aren't the only ones who source the fruit from those
seedling trees I've mentioned.

Quit
encouraging people to grow apples from seeds. It wastes their time
and is a big dissappointment after years of effort in raising them.

Quit insisting that apples grown from seeds are all worthless.

By the way, which varieties have you planted from seed that you think
came out ok?

Read for comprehension. I 'access' seedling grown apple trees.

apple trees from seed
 

On Sep 28, 2:49*pm, brooklyn1 wrote:
When I said booze I literally meant booze... any apples, the worst
eating apples are great for making jack... doesn't even need to be all
apples, add some currants for color... I once blew up a heavy duty 5
gallon stainless steel vacuum bottle making apple jack from dehy
apples and raisins (forgot to crack the vent).

You have a still, do you?

Karen

apple trees from seed
 

On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:12:39 -0700 (PDT), against all advice,
something compelled Karen , to say:

On Sep 28, 2:49*pm, brooklyn1 wrote:
When I said booze I literally meant booze... any apples, the worst
eating apples are great for making jack... doesn't even need to be all
apples, add some currants for color... I once blew up a heavy duty 5
gallon stainless steel vacuum bottle making apple jack from dehy
apples and raisins (forgot to crack the vent).

You have a still, do you?


You don't jack cider with a still. You use a freezer.




--

Don't worry about people stealing an idea. If it's original, you will
have to ram it down their throats.
- Howard Aiken

apple trees from seed
 

Karen wrote in
.
com:

On Sep 28, 2:49*pm, brooklyn1 wrote:
When I said booze I literally meant booze... any apples, the
worst eating apples are great for making jack... doesn't even
need to be all apples, add some currants for color... I once
blew up a heavy duty 5 gallon stainless steel vacuum bottle
making apple jack from dehy apples and raisins (forgot to crack
the vent).

You have a still, do you?

don't know why you'd think that. that's not how to make jack.
distilled cider would be, um, apple vodka.
lee

apple trees from seed
 

In article ,
enigma wrote:

Karen wrote in
.
com:

On Sep 28, 2:49*pm, brooklyn1 wrote:
When I said booze I literally meant booze... any apples, the
worst eating apples are great for making jack... doesn't even
need to be all apples, add some currants for color... I once
blew up a heavy duty 5 gallon stainless steel vacuum bottle
making apple jack from dehy apples and raisins (forgot to crack
the vent).

You have a still, do you?

don't know why you'd think that. that's not how to make jack.
distilled cider would be, um, apple vodka.
lee

I'm sure you know better, Lee. Fruit brandies are very popular in
Europe, e.g. Apple (Calvados), Cherry (Kirsch), Grape (Cognac), Plums
(Slivovitz), Pears (Poire William) u.s.w.
--
³When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist.²
-Archbishop Helder Camara

http://tinyurl.com/o63ruj
http://countercurrents.org/roberts020709.htm