"Wildbilly" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Lelandite" wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Lelandite wrote:
" I have a very large garden, that needs tidying up. its basically a
base.
with bit of rubble.

Im not sure if i should rotavate it or throw top soil on.

Any one any ideas?

Fiona




--
fi0n4


Til it up good! mix in some air, nutrients, fertilizer, and enough
bags of a good topsoil to cover the whole area at least a couple of
inches. Your work will be worth the effort if you put the time in now.

Donna
in WA zone 8/9

I don't see that there is enough information to suggest that. There are
situations which fit the description where that would be a waste of effort.

David

She states she has a "base". I'd still go for the works. My gardens have
always liked the little extra's I give them....both flower and veggie. You
should see my bosenberries right now....can't wait until summer.

Donna
in WA

I just ask that you look at 3 web sites.

(1)
http://www.plantea.com/no-tilling.htm
You may want to look at Lowenfels book:
"Teaming with Microbes"
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb...l/dp/088192777
5/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266037779&sr=1-1
and probably available at your local library.

the link did not work.


(2)
http://www.mdvaden.com/double_digging.shtml
The first, and last, dig isn't necessary, but it speeds things up
dramatically. (see below)

My "soil" is sand. A neighbor dug down 8 feet to put in his
septic tank....still 100 % sand. I used a mini tiller for both my
flower and veggie gardens: 1st to turn over the soil and to get it
loosen to the depth I needed (then was the time to pull out any
rocks/rubbage/garbage prior owners threw out). Then I
supplimented with bags of chicken manure with a topping of loam.
True, tiller's are not always necessary but why not use one
instead of one's back? And I'm wondering just when God may
call back this land I'm living on. The rubbage also contained
clams shells.

(3)
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organ.../Lasagna-Garde
ning.aspx

actually kinda of wishywashy on the subject and I expect more then that from
MotherEarthNews. But I'm sure the author of the article was still paid the
same even if it had been a substantial reading. I've found that their magazine
has gone done in substance, value and inspiration since the 70's.

One thing I did do last Fall: I asked my neighbor if I could rake up all his
huge maple leaves. After he got up off the ground from the shook, he told
me I could rake all I wanted. Dumped literally loads of the dead leaves on
my flower garden. Then asked another neighbor down the road if she could
spare a couple wheel barrels of road apples. Heck, she loaded the barrels
up and delivered she was so happy to find a local place to dump.

The road apples went on top of the leaves. From the flowers I see just now
waking up, they're happy. The garden still needs work but that will come at a
later date. I have about 200 little flower seedlings just waiting for it to
warm
up past the danger zone of frost.

Donna
in WA


"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...ting_activists
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines

In article ,
"Lelandite" wrote:

"Wildbilly" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Lelandite" wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Lelandite wrote:
" I have a very large garden, that needs tidying up. its basically a
base.
with bit of rubble.

Im not sure if i should rotavate it or throw top soil on.

Any one any ideas?

Fiona




--
fi0n4


Til it up good! mix in some air, nutrients, fertilizer, and enough
bags of a good topsoil to cover the whole area at least a couple of
inches. Your work will be worth the effort if you put the time in now.

Donna
in WA zone 8/9

I don't see that there is enough information to suggest that. There are
situations which fit the description where that would be a waste of
effort.

David

She states she has a "base". I'd still go for the works. My gardens have
always liked the little extra's I give them....both flower and veggie.
You
should see my bosenberries right now....can't wait until summer.

Donna
in WA

I just ask that you look at 3 web sites.

(1)
http://www.plantea.com/no-tilling.htm
You may want to look at Lowenfels book:
"Teaming with Microbes"
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb...l/dp/088192777
5/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266037779&sr=1-1
and probably available at your local library.

the link did not work.

That's odd. I don't know which link that you are referring to, but I
just pasted both of them in, and they both work fine for me. Sometimes
computers smell fear, and they won't cooperate.

Check with your local library, where you can peruse the book.


(2)
http://www.mdvaden.com/double_digging.shtml
The first, and last, dig isn't necessary, but it speeds things up
dramatically. (see below)

My "soil" is sand. A neighbor dug down 8 feet to put in his
septic tank....still 100 % sand. I used a mini tiller for both my
flower and veggie gardens: 1st to turn over the soil and to get it
loosen to the depth I needed (then was the time to pull out any
rocks/rubbage/garbage prior owners threw out). Then I
supplimented with bags of chicken manure with a topping of loam.
True, tiller's are not always necessary but why not use one
instead of one's back? And I'm wondering just when God may
call back this land I'm living on. The rubbage also contained
clams shells.
This is the information, as David noted, that was missing from your OP.
Since you have sandy soil, you may want to add some clay to it (to slow
the leakage and bind nutrients) along with organic matter. If you are
near the ocean, get some seaweed too.

(3)
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organ.../Lasagna-Garde
ning.aspx

actually kinda of wishywashy on the subject and I expect more then that from
MotherEarthNews. But I'm sure the author of the article was still paid the
same even if it had been a substantial reading. I've found that their
magazine
has gone done in substance, value and inspiration since the 70's.
Fascinating. If the site is a problem just google, lasagna gardening.
I hope you can manage that.

One thing I did do last Fall: I asked my neighbor if I could rake up all his
huge maple leaves. After he got up off the ground from the shook, he told
me I could rake all I wanted. Dumped literally loads of the dead leaves on
my flower garden. Then asked another neighbor down the road if she could
spare a couple wheel barrels of road apples. Heck, she loaded the barrels
up and delivered she was so happy to find a local place to dump.

The road apples went on top of the leaves.
With an initial application of newspapers or cardboard to block the
weeds, an annual application of manure and leaves, as you are already
doing, and maintaining the mulch in your garden at 2 or 3 inches, you
are lasagna (no dig) gardening, just as they said at that horrible
website.

I've been gardening like this for the last 4 years, because it is easier
on an old man than digging or using power equipment. YMMV

From the flowers I see just now
waking up, they're happy. The garden still needs work but that will come at
a
later date. I have about 200 little flower seedlings just waiting for it to
warm
up past the danger zone of frost.

Donna
in WA


"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...rresting_activ
ists
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...ting_activists
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines

reference http://organicgreenfingers.com/quest...anic-gardening

What about 16 foot gardening. When we are done we will have a 4X4 foot
raised bed.

Soil:

If you live in a new house the your grass is probably planted into a
thin layer of poor topsoil over a thicker layer builders rubble like
mine was. If you have good soil then you can count yourself lucky and
plans straight into the soil, having first removed the grass. This
answer is for those with the bad soil! If you have bad soil then it
makes sense to make a raised bed. It helps with drainage and allows
you to bring in some good soil without trying to improve the whole
garden.

The materials:

Around where I live the builders suppliers and diy shops sell pressure
treated 8X2 inch boards in 8 foot lengths. Check that the treatment is
not harmful before buying and then buy two. Also grab a length of
pressure treated 2X2, some galvanised 4 inch nails and some steel 4
inch screws. You will also need some compost for this job. Get as much
as you can up to about 10 cubic feet (300 litres). See if you can
source rotten farm manure, spent mushroom compost, council compost. If
you have no alternative You will have to buy some bags at the garden
center. Buy soil enhancer and compost, about half and half. Either way
if you have very heavy soil prone to waterlogging then add a couple of
bags of horticultural grit or sand.
If they want to charge for delivery just ask if they can drop it off
when they are passing they will probably deliver this lot for free,
especially if you are not in a hurry for delivery. .

A site for the bed:

Now choose the position for the bed. It should be in sunlight for most
of the day. Try to have it near a water source. You might want to hide
it away at the back of the garden or show it off right at your back
window.

The frame or raised bed:

Measure carefully and cut the two 2X8 boards in half making sure the
cut is square. You can normally use the back of your saw to do this
marking. Cut the 2x2 board into 8 pieces about a foot long by making
angled cuts. You will be driving these into the ground so hence the
angle! Lay out the boards on their narrow edges to make a square frame
overlapping the end of each piece over the next. Nail together by
nailing into the ends. This frame is about 4 X 4 feet. Move the frame
to it’s position and leave it there for a day or two. Review the
siting carefully and invite other interested parties to do so also. It
will be harder to move quite soon.

Put the frame in place “permanently”:

Take the pieces of 2X2 which we are using like pegs and drive into the
ground inside the corners of the frame. Leave a few inches sticking
out and then drive two screws through each one into the frame. Drive
one screw into one piece of the frame and then one at 90 degrees from
into the other. Do this from the inside. You can use one “peg” in the
middle of each side also for extra strength.

Digging:

Now the next bit is optional but I recommend it. Start by skimming off
a thin layer of sod the width of the spade across your square and then
dig up about down to the depth of the spade and move this away
temporarily. Start the next trench by skimming off the next line of
sod and turn upside down in the first trench. Cut each sod into
quarters with the spade. Put about 5 inches of compost or so on top of
the upside down sod in the trench . Now dig the next trench down to a
spade’s depth and dump into the first trench on top of the compost.
Use a fork to break the soil up and mix slightly with the compost.
Continue until you get to the end and use the stuff you took away at
the start to fill in the last trench. You should have some compost
left! If you’re not digging you can just pour the compost into the
frame but this isn’t ideal.

Sheet mulch:

As a sheet mulch put a layer of old cardboard boxes flattened out
carefully on top of the soil/compost in the frame. You can use
newspaper and to help it stay down you can put down a piece and then
wet it. About a layer of half a newspaper is enough. Put an inch or
two of compost over the sheet mulch. The sheet mulch will keep down
weeds and rot away in about a year.

Planting:

If you can get a bed like this ready in the autumn or winter and leave
until spring then you will be ready for planting but I think that
might be another question or three!

well, if I'm doing everything right without the benefits of reading
your recommendations, what's there to complain about? I'm a
long long time get-my-hands-dirty gardener. At least 50 years
of sowing & reaping and sharing my goods.

I'm an old woman but the new (small scale) machines are so
much fun to use. I'd hate to think something new would stop
me from trying it! That day hasn't arrived yet.

Yours in bountiful yeild,

Donna
in WA


"Wildbilly" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Lelandite" wrote:

"Wildbilly" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Lelandite" wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Lelandite wrote:
" I have a very large garden, that needs tidying up. its basically a
base.
with bit of rubble.

Im not sure if i should rotavate it or throw top soil on.

Any one any ideas?

Fiona




--
fi0n4


Til it up good! mix in some air, nutrients, fertilizer, and enough
bags of a good topsoil to cover the whole area at least a couple of
inches. Your work will be worth the effort if you put the time in now.

Donna
in WA zone 8/9

I don't see that there is enough information to suggest that. There are
situations which fit the description where that would be a waste of
effort.

David

She states she has a "base". I'd still go for the works. My gardens have
always liked the little extra's I give them....both flower and veggie.
You
should see my bosenberries right now....can't wait until summer.

Donna
in WA

I just ask that you look at 3 web sites.

(1)
http://www.plantea.com/no-tilling.htm
You may want to look at Lowenfels book:
"Teaming with Microbes"
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb...l/dp/088192777
5/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266037779&sr=1-1
and probably available at your local library.

the link did not work.

That's odd. I don't know which link that you are referring to, but I
just pasted both of them in, and they both work fine for me. Sometimes
computers smell fear, and they won't cooperate.

Check with your local library, where you can peruse the book.


(2)
http://www.mdvaden.com/double_digging.shtml
The first, and last, dig isn't necessary, but it speeds things up
dramatically. (see below)

My "soil" is sand. A neighbor dug down 8 feet to put in his
septic tank....still 100 % sand. I used a mini tiller for both my
flower and veggie gardens: 1st to turn over the soil and to get it
loosen to the depth I needed (then was the time to pull out any
rocks/rubbage/garbage prior owners threw out). Then I
supplimented with bags of chicken manure with a topping of loam.
True, tiller's are not always necessary but why not use one
instead of one's back? And I'm wondering just when God may
call back this land I'm living on. The rubbage also contained
clams shells.
This is the information, as David noted, that was missing from your OP.
Since you have sandy soil, you may want to add some clay to it (to slow
the leakage and bind nutrients) along with organic matter. If you are
near the ocean, get some seaweed too.

(3)
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organ.../Lasagna-Garde
ning.aspx

actually kinda of wishywashy on the subject and I expect more then that from
MotherEarthNews. But I'm sure the author of the article was still paid the
same even if it had been a substantial reading. I've found that their
magazine
has gone done in substance, value and inspiration since the 70's.
Fascinating. If the site is a problem just google, lasagna gardening.
I hope you can manage that.

One thing I did do last Fall: I asked my neighbor if I could rake up all his
huge maple leaves. After he got up off the ground from the shook, he told
me I could rake all I wanted. Dumped literally loads of the dead leaves on
my flower garden. Then asked another neighbor down the road if she could
spare a couple wheel barrels of road apples. Heck, she loaded the barrels
up and delivered she was so happy to find a local place to dump.

The road apples went on top of the leaves.
With an initial application of newspapers or cardboard to block the
weeds, an annual application of manure and leaves, as you are already
doing, and maintaining the mulch in your garden at 2 or 3 inches, you
are lasagna (no dig) gardening, just as they said at that horrible
website.

I've been gardening like this for the last 4 years, because it is easier
on an old man than digging or using power equipment. YMMV

From the flowers I see just now
waking up, they're happy. The garden still needs work but that will come at
a
later date. I have about 200 little flower seedlings just waiting for it to
warm
up past the danger zone of frost.

Donna
in WA


"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...rresting_activ
ists
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...ting_activists
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines

Obviously, with the decades and decades of contending with the rain,
wind, and sun that you have gardened through, there is nothing that I ,
a nouveau arrivé, can tell you about gardening. You just go out and get
the biggest, meanest exhaust belching machine that tickles your fancy,
and pay no attention to those who yell "terrorist" at you for using
petroleum, which is the basis for our "Eternal Wars" (for profit).

No, I was referring to fi0n4, the OP. I seem to have jumped the tracks
when you responded to my post to fi0n4, but it is all sorted out now. If
you have any further questions, I suggest that you direct them one of
our humble contributors, "Gunney", who lives in your neck of the woods.
I'm sure you two will hit it off smashingly. Nice to have met you,
good-bye.
---

Fi, (may I call you fi?) I suggest that you look at the articles that I
mentioned.
(1)
http://www.plantea.com/no-tilling.htm
You may want to look at Lowenfels book:
"Teaming with Microbes"
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb...l/dp/088192777
5/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266037779&sr=1-1
and probably available at your local library.

(2)
http://www.mdvaden.com/double_digging.shtml
The first, and last, dig isn't necessary, but it speeds things up
dramatically. (see below)

(3)
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organ...1/Lasagna-Gard
ening.aspx

(4) One last tweak for your garden is charcoal. Not briquettes, that may
contain coal dust and/or accelerants, but black shards of real wood left
over from a wood stove or barbecue (like the wood chips added for that
smokey flavor). Scatter it liberally onto your soil. Not only will it
improve the fertility of your garden, but it is also a way to sequester
carbon to keep it out of the atmosphere, where as CO2, it adds to
"Global Warming".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta

Other references:

http://organicgardening.about.com/od...en/a/lasagnaga
rden.htm

http://ourgardengang.tripod.com/lasagna_gardening.htm

http://www.redbluffdailynews.com/news/ci_14372729

or check your local library for

Lasagna Gardening: A New Layering System for Bountiful Gardens: No
Digging, No Tilling, No Weeding, No Kidding!
~ Patricia Lanza (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Lasagna-Garden...Gardens/dp/087
5969623/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266166594&sr=1-1

Lasagna Gardening for Small Spaces: A Layering System for Big Results in
Small Gardens and Containers (Rodale Organic Gardening Book) by Patricia
Lanza
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...tripbooks&fiel
d-keywords=lasagna+gardening&x=0&y=0

How to Grow More Vegetables and Fruits (and Fruits, Nuts, Berries,
Grains, and Other Crops) Than You Ever Thought Possible on Less Land
Than You Can Imagine by John Jeavons
http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=12661665...rs=1000&keywor
ds=lasagna%20gardening&rh=n%3A%211000%2Ci%3Astripb ooks%2Ck%3Alasagna%20ga
rdening&page=2

------

Using 2 and 3 year old seeds (I'm cheap, that's why) I've germinated
this years tomatoes, and peas. Probably be another 10 days before there
is any sign (if any) of the peppers. If the peppers don't work out, I
have fresh seed. I'm using a 2 ft., 2 bulb, T5, and a 4 ft., 4 bulb, T5,
and a cheap 3 setting heating pad. In the past I had to rotate out my
freshly germinated seedling to make way for the next batch. This year I
hope to have nursery sized plants to put out in early May. I'll put out
clear plastic mulch on one side of the row and leave the other side open
to a living mulch (red clover). At least, that's the plan, hoo-rah.


In article ,
"Lelandite" wrote:

well, if I'm doing everything right without the benefits of reading
your recommendations, what's there to complain about? I'm a
long long time get-my-hands-dirty gardener. At least 50 years
of sowing & reaping and sharing my goods.

I'm an old woman but the new (small scale) machines are so
much fun to use. I'd hate to think something new would stop
me from trying it! That day hasn't arrived yet.

Yours in bountiful yeild,

Donna
in WA


"Wildbilly" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Lelandite" wrote:

"Wildbilly" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Lelandite" wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Lelandite wrote:
" I have a very large garden, that needs tidying up. its basically
a
base.
with bit of rubble.

Im not sure if i should rotavate it or throw top soil on.

Any one any ideas?

Fiona




--
fi0n4


Til it up good! mix in some air, nutrients, fertilizer, and enough
bags of a good topsoil to cover the whole area at least a couple of
inches. Your work will be worth the effort if you put the time in
now.

Donna
in WA zone 8/9

I don't see that there is enough information to suggest that. There
are
situations which fit the description where that would be a waste of
effort.

David

She states she has a "base". I'd still go for the works. My gardens
have
always liked the little extra's I give them....both flower and veggie.
You
should see my bosenberries right now....can't wait until summer.

Donna
in WA

I just ask that you look at 3 web sites.

(1)
http://www.plantea.com/no-tilling.htm
You may want to look at Lowenfels book:
"Teaming with Microbes"
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb...l/dp/088192777
5/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266037779&sr=1-1
and probably available at your local library.

the link did not work.

That's odd. I don't know which link that you are referring to, but I
just pasted both of them in, and they both work fine for me. Sometimes
computers smell fear, and they won't cooperate.

Check with your local library, where you can peruse the book.


(2)
http://www.mdvaden.com/double_digging.shtml
The first, and last, dig isn't necessary, but it speeds things up
dramatically. (see below)

My "soil" is sand. A neighbor dug down 8 feet to put in his
septic tank....still 100 % sand. I used a mini tiller for both my
flower and veggie gardens: 1st to turn over the soil and to get it
loosen to the depth I needed (then was the time to pull out any
rocks/rubbage/garbage prior owners threw out). Then I
supplimented with bags of chicken manure with a topping of loam.
True, tiller's are not always necessary but why not use one
instead of one's back? And I'm wondering just when God may
call back this land I'm living on. The rubbage also contained
clams shells.
This is the information, as David noted, that was missing from your OP.
Since you have sandy soil, you may want to add some clay to it (to slow
the leakage and bind nutrients) along with organic matter. If you are
near the ocean, get some seaweed too.

(3)
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organ.../Lasagna-Garde
ning.aspx

actually kinda of wishywashy on the subject and I expect more then that
from
MotherEarthNews. But I'm sure the author of the article was still paid
the
same even if it had been a substantial reading. I've found that their
magazine
has gone done in substance, value and inspiration since the 70's.
Fascinating. If the site is a problem just google, lasagna gardening.
I hope you can manage that.

One thing I did do last Fall: I asked my neighbor if I could rake up all
his
huge maple leaves. After he got up off the ground from the shook, he told
me I could rake all I wanted. Dumped literally loads of the dead leaves
on
my flower garden. Then asked another neighbor down the road if she could
spare a couple wheel barrels of road apples. Heck, she loaded the barrels
up and delivered she was so happy to find a local place to dump.

The road apples went on top of the leaves.
With an initial application of newspapers or cardboard to block the
weeds, an annual application of manure and leaves, as you are already
doing, and maintaining the mulch in your garden at 2 or 3 inches, you
are lasagna (no dig) gardening, just as they said at that horrible
website.

I've been gardening like this for the last 4 years, because it is easier
on an old man than digging or using power equipment. YMMV

From the flowers I see just now
waking up, they're happy. The garden still needs work but that will come
at
a
later date. I have about 200 little flower seedlings just waiting for it
to
warm
up past the danger zone of frost.

Donna
in WA


"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...l_arresting_ac
tiv
ists
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...rresting_activ
ists
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...ting_activists
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines

LOL, sorry but I use old fashion tools! Mainly my hands holding a
shovel or rake. My neighbors are all kind folks who mow their
lawns, too. My mower mulches which helps to green my lawn green
and fertilized naturally. Besides my lawn mover, I will confess to
owning a small weedeater. God gave people brains to make these
things to help us get off our behind and get outside. I'm rreeaaally
grateful for the brains God gave the Ford family.

Don't know why this had to turn to such a waste of time. I only
reponded to a question with my POV.

Donna
in WA


"Wildbilly" wrote in message
...
Obviously, with the decades and decades of contending with the rain,
wind, and sun that you have gardened through, there is nothing that I ,
a nouveau arrivé, can tell you about gardening. You just go out and get
the biggest, meanest exhaust belching machine that tickles your fancy,
and pay no attention to those who yell "terrorist" at you for using
petroleum, which is the basis for our "Eternal Wars" (for profit).

No, I was referring to fi0n4, the OP. I seem to have jumped the tracks
when you responded to my post to fi0n4, but it is all sorted out now. If
you have any further questions, I suggest that you direct them one of
our humble contributors, "Gunney", who lives in your neck of the woods.
I'm sure you two will hit it off smashingly. Nice to have met you,
good-bye.
---

Fi, (may I call you fi?) I suggest that you look at the articles that I
mentioned.
(1)
http://www.plantea.com/no-tilling.htm
You may want to look at Lowenfels book:
"Teaming with Microbes"
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb...l/dp/088192777
5/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266037779&sr=1-1
and probably available at your local library.

(2)
http://www.mdvaden.com/double_digging.shtml
The first, and last, dig isn't necessary, but it speeds things up
dramatically. (see below)

(3)
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organ...1/Lasagna-Gard
ening.aspx

(4) One last tweak for your garden is charcoal. Not briquettes, that may
contain coal dust and/or accelerants, but black shards of real wood left
over from a wood stove or barbecue (like the wood chips added for that
smokey flavor). Scatter it liberally onto your soil. Not only will it
improve the fertility of your garden, but it is also a way to sequester
carbon to keep it out of the atmosphere, where as CO2, it adds to
"Global Warming".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta

Other references:

http://organicgardening.about.com/od...en/a/lasagnaga
rden.htm

http://ourgardengang.tripod.com/lasagna_gardening.htm

http://www.redbluffdailynews.com/news/ci_14372729

or check your local library for

Lasagna Gardening: A New Layering System for Bountiful Gardens: No
Digging, No Tilling, No Weeding, No Kidding!
~ Patricia Lanza (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Lasagna-Garden...Gardens/dp/087
5969623/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266166594&sr=1-1

Lasagna Gardening for Small Spaces: A Layering System for Big Results in
Small Gardens and Containers (Rodale Organic Gardening Book) by Patricia
Lanza
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...tripbooks&fiel
d-keywords=lasagna+gardening&x=0&y=0

How to Grow More Vegetables and Fruits (and Fruits, Nuts, Berries,
Grains, and Other Crops) Than You Ever Thought Possible on Less Land
Than You Can Imagine by John Jeavons
http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=12661665...rs=1000&keywor
ds=lasagna%20gardening&rh=n%3A%211000%2Ci%3Astripb ooks%2Ck%3Alasagna%20ga
rdening&page=2

------

Using 2 and 3 year old seeds (I'm cheap, that's why) I've germinated
this years tomatoes, and peas. Probably be another 10 days before there
is any sign (if any) of the peppers. If the peppers don't work out, I
have fresh seed. I'm using a 2 ft., 2 bulb, T5, and a 4 ft., 4 bulb, T5,
and a cheap 3 setting heating pad. In the past I had to rotate out my
freshly germinated seedling to make way for the next batch. This year I
hope to have nursery sized plants to put out in early May. I'll put out
clear plastic mulch on one side of the row and leave the other side open
to a living mulch (red clover). At least, that's the plan, hoo-rah.


In article ,
"Lelandite" wrote:

well, if I'm doing everything right without the benefits of reading
your recommendations, what's there to complain about? I'm a
long long time get-my-hands-dirty gardener. At least 50 years
of sowing & reaping and sharing my goods.

I'm an old woman but the new (small scale) machines are so
much fun to use. I'd hate to think something new would stop
me from trying it! That day hasn't arrived yet.

Yours in bountiful yeild,

Donna
in WA


"Wildbilly" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Lelandite" wrote:

"Wildbilly" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Lelandite" wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Lelandite wrote:
" I have a very large garden, that needs tidying up. its basically
a
base.
with bit of rubble.

Im not sure if i should rotavate it or throw top soil on.

Any one any ideas?

Fiona




--
fi0n4


Til it up good! mix in some air, nutrients, fertilizer, and enough
bags of a good topsoil to cover the whole area at least a couple of
inches. Your work will be worth the effort if you put the time in
now.

Donna
in WA zone 8/9

I don't see that there is enough information to suggest that. There
are
situations which fit the description where that would be a waste of
effort.

David

She states she has a "base". I'd still go for the works. My gardens
have
always liked the little extra's I give them....both flower and veggie.
You
should see my bosenberries right now....can't wait until summer.

Donna
in WA

I just ask that you look at 3 web sites.

(1)
http://www.plantea.com/no-tilling.htm
You may want to look at Lowenfels book:
"Teaming with Microbes"
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb...l/dp/088192777
5/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266037779&sr=1-1
and probably available at your local library.

the link did not work.

That's odd. I don't know which link that you are referring to, but I
just pasted both of them in, and they both work fine for me. Sometimes
computers smell fear, and they won't cooperate.

Check with your local library, where you can peruse the book.


(2)
http://www.mdvaden.com/double_digging.shtml
The first, and last, dig isn't necessary, but it speeds things up
dramatically. (see below)

My "soil" is sand. A neighbor dug down 8 feet to put in his
septic tank....still 100 % sand. I used a mini tiller for both my
flower and veggie gardens: 1st to turn over the soil and to get it
loosen to the depth I needed (then was the time to pull out any
rocks/rubbage/garbage prior owners threw out). Then I
supplimented with bags of chicken manure with a topping of loam.
True, tiller's are not always necessary but why not use one
instead of one's back? And I'm wondering just when God may
call back this land I'm living on. The rubbage also contained
clams shells.
This is the information, as David noted, that was missing from your OP.
Since you have sandy soil, you may want to add some clay to it (to slow
the leakage and bind nutrients) along with organic matter. If you are
near the ocean, get some seaweed too.

(3)
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organ.../Lasagna-Garde
ning.aspx

actually kinda of wishywashy on the subject and I expect more then that
from
MotherEarthNews. But I'm sure the author of the article was still paid
the
same even if it had been a substantial reading. I've found that their
magazine
has gone done in substance, value and inspiration since the 70's.
Fascinating. If the site is a problem just google, lasagna gardening.
I hope you can manage that.

One thing I did do last Fall: I asked my neighbor if I could rake up all
his
huge maple leaves. After he got up off the ground from the shook, he told
me I could rake all I wanted. Dumped literally loads of the dead leaves
on
my flower garden. Then asked another neighbor down the road if she could
spare a couple wheel barrels of road apples. Heck, she loaded the barrels
up and delivered she was so happy to find a local place to dump.

The road apples went on top of the leaves.
With an initial application of newspapers or cardboard to block the
weeds, an annual application of manure and leaves, as you are already
doing, and maintaining the mulch in your garden at 2 or 3 inches, you
are lasagna (no dig) gardening, just as they said at that horrible
website.

I've been gardening like this for the last 4 years, because it is easier
on an old man than digging or using power equipment. YMMV

From the flowers I see just now
waking up, they're happy. The garden still needs work but that will come
at
a
later date. I have about 200 little flower seedlings just waiting for it
to
warm
up past the danger zone of frost.

Donna
in WA


"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...l_arresting_ac
tiv
ists
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...rresting_activ
ists
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...ting_activists
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines