OK I have gotten a lot of responses, and no I am not trying to kill
the planet--I just want to grow some veggies!

I live in Missouri, and have a lot of crab grass, thistle, and poison
ivy, etc. The garden patch has been extremely difficult to control
the weeds in the past couple of years.

I have tried mulching, almost 4" in deep across the whole area--does
little if anything to stop weeds.
I have tried black plastic, which seems to stop or slow down the
weeds--but makes everything else that much harder to grow.
I have sprayed repeatedly with RoundUP and everything else they sell
at Lowe's, and actually the only one that worked at all was a no name
brand that did kill the weeds for up to 2 weeks. But they came back.
I have tried burning the whole area, looks ugly for a couple of
months---but weeds came back.
I have crawled around on my hnds and knees pulling all of them out and
removing the roots and all. Still they came back.


Gardening should not have to be this difficult. Com'on folks tell the
secret potion I need to fix things so I can have a good garden this
summer.

This is my first time on this forum, i love gardening and have not done so outside uk but i suggest you find a positive in your situation, focus on what is growing that you are having success with, if you are doing really well with vegies or have huge sunflowers why not grow more of the same, give the weeds a bit of competition. Weeds can only spread where they have the space to do so. After it has rained the weeds can usually be lifted out more easily.

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:06:32 -0800 (PST), chen
wrote:

OK I have gotten a lot of responses, and no I am not trying to kill
the planet--I just want to grow some veggies!

I live in Missouri, and have a lot of crab grass, thistle, and poison
ivy, etc. The garden patch has been extremely difficult to control
the weeds in the past couple of years.

I have tried mulching, almost 4" in deep across the whole area--does
little if anything to stop weeds.
I have tried black plastic, which seems to stop or slow down the
weeds--but makes everything else that much harder to grow.
I have sprayed repeatedly with RoundUP and everything else they sell
at Lowe's, and actually the only one that worked at all was a no name
brand that did kill the weeds for up to 2 weeks. But they came back.
I have tried burning the whole area, looks ugly for a couple of
months---but weeds came back.
I have crawled around on my hnds and knees pulling all of them out and
removing the roots and all. Still they came back.


Gardening should not have to be this difficult. Com'on folks tell the
secret potion I need to fix things so I can have a good garden this
summer.


Spacing the plants closer will reduce some weeds. Planting in rows
makes it easier to hoe the entire 20x20 garden in less than 10
minutes. I may have to hoe every 4-5 weeks. My strawberries require
hand weeding, maybe 5 minutes for a 15-foot row. You may need to
identify the weeds to understand control measures. I have used a
propane torch on weeds gone out of control. Avoid herbicides, at
least in your food garden. Weeding is probably not one of those
favorite gardening tasks, but a well-kept garden requires it.

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:37:31 -0500, Phisherman
wrote:

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:06:32 -0800 (PST), chen
wrote:

OK I have gotten a lot of responses, and no I am not trying to kill
the planet--I just want to grow some veggies!

I live in Missouri, and have a lot of crab grass, thistle, and poison
ivy, etc. The garden patch has been extremely difficult to control
the weeds in the past couple of years.

I have tried mulching, almost 4" in deep across the whole area--does
little if anything to stop weeds.
I have tried black plastic, which seems to stop or slow down the
weeds--but makes everything else that much harder to grow.
I have sprayed repeatedly with RoundUP and everything else they sell
at Lowe's, and actually the only one that worked at all was a no name
brand that did kill the weeds for up to 2 weeks. But they came back.
I have tried burning the whole area, looks ugly for a couple of
months---but weeds came back.
I have crawled around on my hnds and knees pulling all of them out and
removing the roots and all. Still they came back.


Gardening should not have to be this difficult. Com'on folks tell the
secret potion I need to fix things so I can have a good garden this
summer.


Spacing the plants closer will reduce some weeds. Planting in rows
makes it easier to hoe the entire 20x20 garden in less than 10
minutes. I may have to hoe every 4-5 weeks. My strawberries require
hand weeding, maybe 5 minutes for a 15-foot row. You may need to
identify the weeds to understand control measures. I have used a
propane torch on weeds gone out of control. Avoid herbicides, at
least in your food garden. Weeding is probably not one of those
favorite gardening tasks, but a well-kept garden requires it.


You should already know it is not a good idea to burn poison ivy or
poison oak. For those you will need RoundUp, perhaps a second and
third application for established plants.

In article
,
chen wrote:

OK I have gotten a lot of responses, and no I am not trying to kill
the planet--I just want to grow some veggies!

I live in Missouri, and have a lot of crab grass, thistle, and poison
ivy, etc. The garden patch has been extremely difficult to control
the weeds in the past couple of years.

I have tried mulching, almost 4" in deep across the whole area--does
little if anything to stop weeds.
I have tried black plastic, which seems to stop or slow down the
weeds--but makes everything else that much harder to grow.
I have sprayed repeatedly with RoundUP and everything else they sell
at Lowe's, and actually the only one that worked at all was a no name
brand that did kill the weeds for up to 2 weeks. But they came back.
I have tried burning the whole area, looks ugly for a couple of
months---but weeds came back.
I have crawled around on my hnds and knees pulling all of them out and
removing the roots and all. Still they came back.


Gardening should not have to be this difficult. Com'on folks tell the
secret potion I need to fix things so I can have a good garden this
summer.

Get a Japanese gardening knife and a hula hoe and a warren hoe. Start
with a very small garden and expand when you have got the small the way
you want it.

http://www.vsb.cape.com/~nature/greencenter/newalchemy.html
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/search.aspx?SearchTerm=hoe
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/c-568-collinear-hoes.aspx

Bill

P.S. The one secret it to cultivate before the weeds emerge.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:06:32 -0800 (PST), chen
wrote:

OK I have gotten a lot of responses, and no I am not trying to kill
the planet--I just want to grow some veggies!

I live in Missouri, and have a lot of crab grass, thistle, and poison
ivy, etc. The garden patch has been extremely difficult to control
the weeds in the past couple of years.

I have tried mulching, almost 4" in deep across the whole area--does
little if anything to stop weeds.
I have tried black plastic, which seems to stop or slow down the
weeds--but makes everything else that much harder to grow.
I have sprayed repeatedly with RoundUP and everything else they sell
at Lowe's, and actually the only one that worked at all was a no name
brand that did kill the weeds for up to 2 weeks. But they came back.
I have tried burning the whole area, looks ugly for a couple of
months---but weeds came back.
I have crawled around on my hnds and knees pulling all of them out and
removing the roots and all. Still they came back.


Gardening should not have to be this difficult. Com'on folks tell the
secret potion I need to fix things so I can have a good garden this
summer.

JMO, but I'd say you need to be at peace with the weeds. What you
fight, you invite or some other such platitude.

Weeding is a constant in gardening. You don't do it once or twice and
that's it for the season. It's a daily/weekly/however often you want
to do it thing. It's getting on your hands and knees weeding,
visiting, tending - being aware of what is growing.

mulching is good - cover crops - I grew red clover amidst the tomatoes
one year to give the weeds less space to grow.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:06:32 -0800 (PST), chen
wrote:

OK I have gotten a lot of responses, and no I am not trying to kill
the planet--I just want to grow some veggies!

I live in Missouri, and have a lot of crab grass, thistle, and poison
ivy, etc. The garden patch has been extremely difficult to control
the weeds in the past couple of years.

I have tried mulching, almost 4" in deep across the whole area--does
little if anything to stop weeds.
I have tried black plastic, which seems to stop or slow down the
weeds--but makes everything else that much harder to grow.
I have sprayed repeatedly with RoundUP and everything else they sell
at Lowe's, and actually the only one that worked at all was a no name
brand that did kill the weeds for up to 2 weeks. But they came back.
I have tried burning the whole area, looks ugly for a couple of
months---but weeds came back.
I have crawled around on my hnds and knees pulling all of them out and
removing the roots and all. Still they came back.


Gardening should not have to be this difficult. Com'on folks tell the
secret potion I need to fix things so I can have a good garden this
summer.

JMO, but I'd say you need to be at peace with the weeds. What you
fight, you invite or some other such platitude.

Weeding is a constant in gardening. You don't do it once or twice and
that's it for the season. It's a daily/weekly/however often you want
to do it thing. It's getting on your hands and knees weeding,
visiting, tending - being aware of what is growing.

mulching is good - cover crops - I grew red clover amidst the tomatoes
one year to give the weeds less space to grow.

Wise words in your response Kate. Your response made me think of that old
saying: 'The best fertiliser is the footsteps of the gardener'.

Not all weeds are bad chen. Look at them and wonder why they grow, and why
they grow where they do. Thistles for example grow where soil needs to be
repaired. They are what I call 'deep miners' as they (at least the ones I
know, but yours could be a different species) put down deep tap roots and if
you pull them up you will find worms snugged in close to the tap root. they
must be giving something to the worms and I suspect that it is mineral found
at a much deeper level than earth worms like to go and pulled up into the
body of the plant by the deep root.

Creeping grasses are a total bitch though and the only way I have found to
get rid of them is to paint them with a concentrate of glyphosate using a
paint brush. I dont' spray it and I keep a very close eye on the spot to
make sure that if any more emerges, I repaint it as it comes up. I've found
that it has taken 3 applications of neat glyphosate to get rid of it.

I don't know what poison ivy is as we don't have it in this country.

Some general advice I would give is to start very small and to prepare a
small space well and to learn to manage that first before going the whole
hog. To make sure there is always some fallow period and to always remove
weeds before they seed in those beds.

Thread lead me to.

http://www.southernexposure.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?

Which lead to a reasonable priced book on weeds which I recommend.
Library may be able to get it. "Weeds and what they tell."

http://www.southernexposure.com/Merc...een=PROD&Produ
ct_Code=91123&Category_Code=BOOK

Which lead to

http://www.southernexposure.com/Merc...een=CTGY&Categ
ory_Code=RTOM



Which lead to a source for Marglobe tomatoes.

Thanks

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

"Bill who putters" wrote in message
...

Thread lead me to.

http://www.southernexposure.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?

(snip)
You set me off having a hunt too. I knew that sorrel was an indictor of
acidity but not dandelions.

I found a few interesting sites:
http://www.littlefarmresearch.com/weeds.ivnu

http://ridgetownhorticulturalsociety...amsay-6185945/

http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm.../WeedsToC.html

Seems like there is lots of info out there to be found.

In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Bill who putters" wrote in message
news:b2fore ...

Thread lead me to.

http://www.southernexposure.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?

(snip)
You set me off having a hunt too. I knew that sorrel was an indictor of
acidity but not dandelions.

I found a few interesting sites:
http://www.littlefarmresearch.com/weeds.ivnu

http://ridgetownhorticulturalsociety...-indicators-of
-soil-conditions-stuart-b-hill-jennifer-ramsay-6185945/

http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm.../WeedsToC.html

Seems like there is lots of info out there to be found.

Thanks Farml for posting your urls of value ! I'll check them out.

I do not know what is more difficult. Being a new gardener and not
know what to search for or being an experienced gardener and think you
know. Sort of scares me how in a way not knowing is proven daily.

Still the Andromeda plant broken by the snow continues to show bloom.
Pollinators love this plant.

http://www.shadegarden.net/japanese-pieris-japanese-andromeda/

Albert E said soon us we say we know we stop thinking about it.

Bill who bought Moonflower, Mexican Sunflower and a very red Morning
Glory for the hummers an hour ago.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Bill who putters" wrote in message
...

Thread lead me to.

http://www.southernexposure.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?

(snip)
You set me off having a hunt too. I knew that sorrel was an indictor of
acidity but not dandelions.

I found a few interesting sites:
http://www.littlefarmresearch.com/weeds.ivnu

http://ridgetownhorticulturalsociety...-indicators-of
-soil-conditions-stuart-b-hill-jennifer-ramsay-6185945/

http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm.../WeedsToC.html

Seems like there is lots of info out there to be found.

I have Weeds Guardians of the soil A paper back 1974. God I got some
good stuff buried about.

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:11:56 +1100, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:06:32 -0800 (PST), chen
wrote:

OK I have gotten a lot of responses, and no I am not trying to kill
the planet--I just want to grow some veggies!

I live in Missouri, and have a lot of crab grass, thistle, and poison
ivy, etc. The garden patch has been extremely difficult to control
the weeds in the past couple of years.

I have tried mulching, almost 4" in deep across the whole area--does
little if anything to stop weeds.
I have tried black plastic, which seems to stop or slow down the
weeds--but makes everything else that much harder to grow.
I have sprayed repeatedly with RoundUP and everything else they sell
at Lowe's, and actually the only one that worked at all was a no name
brand that did kill the weeds for up to 2 weeks. But they came back.
I have tried burning the whole area, looks ugly for a couple of
months---but weeds came back.
I have crawled around on my hnds and knees pulling all of them out and
removing the roots and all. Still they came back.


Gardening should not have to be this difficult. Com'on folks tell the
secret potion I need to fix things so I can have a good garden this
summer.

JMO, but I'd say you need to be at peace with the weeds. What you
fight, you invite or some other such platitude.

Weeding is a constant in gardening. You don't do it once or twice and
that's it for the season. It's a daily/weekly/however often you want
to do it thing. It's getting on your hands and knees weeding,
visiting, tending - being aware of what is growing.

mulching is good - cover crops - I grew red clover amidst the tomatoes
one year to give the weeds less space to grow.

Wise words in your response Kate. Your response made me think of that old
saying: 'The best fertiliser is the footsteps of the gardener'.

Thanks, Farm1. I like your old saying - I haven't heard it before but
certainly true.

Not all weeds are bad chen. Look at them and wonder why they grow, and why
they grow where they do. Thistles for example grow where soil needs to be
repaired. They are what I call 'deep miners' as they (at least the ones I
know, but yours could be a different species) put down deep tap roots and if
you pull them up you will find worms snugged in close to the tap root. they
must be giving something to the worms and I suspect that it is mineral found
at a much deeper level than earth worms like to go and pulled up into the
body of the plant by the deep root.

Creeping grasses are a total bitch though and the only way I have found to
get rid of them is to paint them with a concentrate of glyphosate using a
paint brush. I dont' spray it and I keep a very close eye on the spot to
make sure that if any more emerges, I repaint it as it comes up. I've found
that it has taken 3 applications of neat glyphosate to get rid of it.

I don't know what poison ivy is as we don't have it in this country.

Some general advice I would give is to start very small and to prepare a
small space well and to learn to manage that first before going the whole
hog. To make sure there is always some fallow period and to always remove
weeds before they seed in those beds.

In article ,
wrote:

I grew red clover amidst the tomatoes
one year to give the weeds less space to grow.

So what happened? Why didn't you repeat with the red clover?
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100119/...ting_activists
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/19/headlines

On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:02:08 -0800, Wildbilly
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

I grew red clover amidst the tomatoes
one year to give the weeds less space to grow.

So what happened? Why didn't you repeat with the red clover?

I was growing large scale - close to 200 tomato plants. I planted the
red clover too late to be really effective but it was awfully cute
coming up en masse.

Now that I'm small scale again, I still plant with red clover, but
more because I want the red clover. I use it to control hot flashes
and night sweats, in a brandy tincture.

On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:06:32 -0800 (PST), chen
wrote:

OK I have gotten a lot of responses, and no I am not trying to kill
the planet--I just want to grow some veggies!

I live in Missouri, and have a lot of crab grass, thistle, and poison
ivy, etc. The garden patch has been extremely difficult to control
the weeds in the past couple of years.

I have tried mulching, almost 4" in deep across the whole area--does
little if anything to stop weeds.
I have tried black plastic, which seems to stop or slow down the
weeds--but makes everything else that much harder to grow.
I have sprayed repeatedly with RoundUP and everything else they sell
at Lowe's, and actually the only one that worked at all was a no name
brand that did kill the weeds for up to 2 weeks. But they came back.
I have tried burning the whole area, looks ugly for a couple of
months---but weeds came back.
I have crawled around on my hnds and knees pulling all of them out and
removing the roots and all. Still they came back.


Gardening should not have to be this difficult. Com'on folks tell the
secret potion I need to fix things so I can have a good garden this
summer.

Get a Mantis tiller. And you really can't garden without a
contractors wheelbarrow! Ahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .