In article ,
"Dan L." wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

In article
,
Frank wrote:

On Jul 8, 3:16*pm, Billy wrote:
In article ,

*Frank wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DII7v8yeRjs

Never learned how to document a response have you, Frank?

Matter of fact, I doubt you even watched the video, that you base
your
opinion on. You have opinions on reports that you don't read, too. If
it
wasn't for divine revelation, you wouldn't know anything, would you,
Frank?

Hey, Frank, a heat wave from Boston to Baghdad to Beijing is setting
record-breaking temperatures in cities across the world.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/8/gwynne_dyer_on_climate_wars_the
You only risk losing your ignorance, Frank ;O)

While "The Worst President Ever" was denying global warming, his
military was making contingency plans for it. That must be a real
kick
in the head for a recalcitrant denier, like yourself, Frank.

Lucky that you don't look at opposing opinions, otherwise you might
have
to think once in a while ;O)

This is even "on topic" because it has to do with weather affecting
crops.

Oh, yeah, Kucinich rocks.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito
Mussolini.http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2...://www.democra
cy
no
w.
org/2010/6/28/naomi_klein_the_real_crime_scene

I saw the video, Kuchinch has rocks in his head. Sure 90% of what he
says makes sense but the other 10% is nutty.
Do you want someone like that in charge?

90% reasonably sane. I'd go with that.

http://undpress.nd.edu/book/P01022

Hell I'd go with 60% but I'd also like real human interfacing.
Fumbles and all.

Sure wouldn't want that doctor though.

There is an article in "Organic Gardening" aug/sept 2010 issue page 16.
The article is called "Were not in zone 6 Anymore". Its about the USDA
is updating a more precise version of the plant hardiness zone map. The
article never uses the phrase "Global Warming", it uses the phase
"Climate Change". I find it interesting, they talk about increased CO2's
and it's environmental impact.

Is it politics for the word phrase change or is "Climate Change" more
accurate than global warming?

I prefer "Global Warming"! It has a tone of warning and danger.
"Climate Change" seems nonchalant, not worry.

This is just PR opiate to keep the masses from freakin' out. Oh, not a
big problem. We'll have it back together in 9 months. Yeah, sure, right.
The fishing industry is screwed for who knows how long (as seafood
restaurants around the country fold). Tourism is dead on the Gulf coast
for a few years, but the oil and the tar will come back with every large
storm. Only thing that is still rockin' and a rollin' is oil. All
Houston, all the time. Definitely not to everyone's taste.

This region was just starting to revive from Katrina. I wonder how many
more will say "enough" and leave.

Well the heat have seems to be over with (In the mid 90's for two weeks
and no rain, mid 80's next week with rain) in Michigan as the rain is
now coming down cooling things off and filling my once empty rain
barrels. My pepper plants were taking a hit with droopy leaves, tomatoes
look great and just took off.

I should have grown okra. Perfect weather for it!
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

Besides some drip irrigation well timed for the garden. Refreshed
the bird bath and turned off most electric this soon. about 103 and
dew point 62 F.

Don't feel neglected, this is a global heat wave. Half of "Democracy
Now" today, is on climate warming and what will happen (people die),

Nah. It's 11C and drizzling rain here all week. No global heat wave.
Therefore AGW is just a myth. Just those pinko socialists trying for world
domination. Pah!

David

Dan L. wrote:
There is an article in "Organic Gardening" aug/sept 2010 issue page
16. The article is called "Were not in zone 6 Anymore". Its about the
USDA is updating a more precise version of the plant hardiness zone
map. The article never uses the phrase "Global Warming", it uses the
phase "Climate Change". I find it interesting, they talk about
increased CO2's and it's environmental impact.

Is it politics for the word phrase change or is "Climate Change" more
accurate than global warming?

It is less misleading because saying the globe will get warmer is much too
simplistic. Change in temperature (mostly up) is only one kind of predicted
change. Other kinds of effects are increase or decrease in rainfall and
change in weather patterns, for example fewer but more intense storms.


I prefer "Global Warming"! It has a tone of warning and danger.
"Climate Change" seems nonchalant, not worry.


According to some it should be named Pinko Plot.

David

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

Besides some drip irrigation well timed for the garden. Refreshed
the bird bath and turned off most electric this soon. about 103 and
dew point 62 F.

Don't feel neglected, this is a global heat wave. Half of "Democracy
Now" today, is on climate warming and what will happen (people die),

Nah. It's 11C and drizzling rain here all week. No global heat wave.
Therefore AGW is just a myth. Just those pinko socialists trying for world
domination. Pah!

David



Good read.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...07/08/AR201007
0804271.html

Pinko Bill

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
What use one more wake up call?

In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

Besides some drip irrigation well timed for the garden. Refreshed
the bird bath and turned off most electric this soon. about 103 and
dew point 62 F.

Don't feel neglected, this is a global heat wave. Half of "Democracy
Now" today, is on climate warming and what will happen (people die),

Nah. It's 11C and drizzling rain here all week. No global heat wave.
Therefore AGW is just a myth. Just those pinko socialists trying for world
domination. Pah!

David



Good read.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...07/08/AR201007
0804271.html

Pinko Bill

The Post article was posted today, just in time.
Eugine Robinson must be reading this newsgroup

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

Besides some drip irrigation well timed for the garden. Refreshed
the bird bath and turned off most electric this soon. about 103 and
dew point 62 F.

Don't feel neglected, this is a global heat wave. Half of "Democracy
Now" today, is on climate warming and what will happen (people die),

Nah. It's 11C and drizzling rain here all week. No global heat wave.
Therefore AGW is just a myth. Just those pinko socialists trying for world
domination. Pah!

David

Some of my favorite things are pink.

Moreover, aren't you going to be shocked in 3 months, to find that the
world has gotten warmer. Maybe all the way up to 20C.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene

its the end of the world as we as we know it

4:05 REM eponymous Blues MPEG audio file 1988

Worth a listen nor more.

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
What use one more wake up call?

In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

its the end of the world as we as we know it

4:05 REM eponymous Blues MPEG audio file 1988

Worth a listen nor more.

I have the song. Question is do you "feel fine" about it
If the world changes politically "I will feel fine"

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

Besides some drip irrigation well timed for the garden. Refreshed
the bird bath and turned off most electric this soon. about 103 and
dew point 62 F.

Don't feel neglected, this is a global heat wave. Half of "Democracy
Now" today, is on climate warming and what will happen (people die),

Nah. It's 11C and drizzling rain here all week. No global heat wave.
Therefore AGW is just a myth. Just those pinko socialists trying for world
domination. Pah!

David

Of the two economic systems Capitalism and Socialism, Socialism will be
the survivor. What if in the future, ten percent of the worlds
population can provide for 100 percent of all goods and services through
free trade and automation, What kind of economic system will one have
where 90 percent of the population has no job? The good times are over
with.

The world is becoming more productive each and every year. Capitalism is
a dying economic system. I am not saying the future will be a good
future. Rationing on all levels will occur. Distribution of wealth is
the only answer. Like it or not.

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

In article ,
"Dan L." wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

Besides some drip irrigation well timed for the garden. Refreshed
the bird bath and turned off most electric this soon. about 103 and
dew point 62 F.

Don't feel neglected, this is a global heat wave. Half of "Democracy
Now" today, is on climate warming and what will happen (people die),


Snip: (David being cute)

Of the two economic systems Capitalism and Socialism, Socialism will be
the survivor.
A tad OFF TOPIC, but from where I stand, there are no capitalist, but
there may be Socialism in Bolivia.

What we've had is kleptocratic authority pretending to be capitalists in
one place, and socialists (communists) in another. Americans, Russians,
Chinese, everybody has consulted with Milton Friedman on how to put the
best face on greed, and maintaining the elite class. All the power
brokers want neo-liberalism, because you don't have to think for it to
operate. The markets correct themselves. Even Schwarzenegger can
understand the beauty of no need to regulate, the markets correct
themselves. Which we found out, isn't true.

In the "Commodities Futures Modernization Act", which in the 11th hour
was inserted into an omnibus spending bill by then Senator Phil Gramm in
2000, the trading of mortagage credit default swaps was suddenly legal
again. They were not legal since 1934 since the passing of the
Glass-Steagal Act.

After Gramm's little sleight of hand, the investment banks could
suddenly sell "insurance" against a mortgage default. That's not a
problem, but they were allowed to do so WITHOUT COLLATERAL. They didn't
have to show that they had assets in reserve to back up the mortage
defaults in the event that they did fail.

It was almost like a license to print money. The higher ups in those
companies made huge bonuses by selling the credit default swaps in a
positive housing market because none of the loans were defaulting. It
was pure profit. The problem came when the housing market declined, the
policies came due and there were no assets to back up the policies. The
banks were so big that the financial system would grind to a halt if
they failed, so the government was forced to step in and bail them out.
In the meantime, the people who sold those deriviatives got to keep
their bonuses.

The system is incentivized in such a way that it's bound to happen again
if it's not regulated.

When the markets aren't regulated, it's the invisible hand of the elite
that drives shares up, or down.

Dust off that old Michael Douglas DVD "Wallstreet", and see again, how
the game is played.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/28/opinion/28wed1.html

And now there is no money to bail out the victims, i.e. the taxpayers.
Productivity has gone up since 1987, income hasn't for the worker.
Bush gave the rich tax breaks.
There are more billionaires than ever before.
And now they cut support to the disabled, old, and the sick.
Libraries are cutting back.
The Post Office wants to cut back.
The parks of Detroit are closed.
There are potholes in the street.

And it costs Toronto $2 billion to have the rich come and plan for a
week? Two billion dollars of taxpayer dollars? Who calls the shots?

We all know where the money went. But our congesspeople won't let us tax
the one class that has benefitted from the last quarter century
neo-liberal greed.

I just hope we can make as much noise as the Greeks are doing.

What if in the future, ten percent of the worlds
population can provide for 100 percent of all goods and services through
free trade and automation, What kind of economic system will one have
where 90 percent of the population has no job? The good times are over
with.

The world is becoming more productive each and every year. Capitalism is
a dying economic system. I am not saying the future will be a good
future. Rationing on all levels will occur. Distribution of wealth is
the only answer. Like it or not.
--
- Billy
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/7/2/maude
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
"Dan L." wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

Besides some drip irrigation well timed for the garden. Refreshed
the bird bath and turned off most electric this soon. about 103 and
dew point 62 F.

Don't feel neglected, this is a global heat wave. Half of "Democracy
Now" today, is on climate warming and what will happen (people die),


Snip: (David being cute)

Of the two economic systems Capitalism and Socialism, Socialism will be
the survivor.
A tad OFF TOPIC, but from where I stand, there are no capitalist, but
there may be Socialism in Bolivia.

What we've had is kleptocratic authority pretending to be capitalists in
one place, and socialists (communists) in another. Americans, Russians,
Chinese, everybody has consulted with Milton Friedman on how to put the
best face on greed, and maintaining the elite class. All the power
brokers want neo-liberalism, because you don't have to think for it to
operate. The markets correct themselves. Even Schwarzenegger can
understand the beauty of no need to regulate, the markets correct
themselves. Which we found out, isn't true.

In the "Commodities Futures Modernization Act", which in the 11th hour
was inserted into an omnibus spending bill by then Senator Phil Gramm in
2000, the trading of mortagage credit default swaps was suddenly legal
again. They were not legal since 1934 since the passing of the
Glass-Steagal Act.

After Gramm's little sleight of hand, the investment banks could
suddenly sell "insurance" against a mortgage default. That's not a
problem, but they were allowed to do so WITHOUT COLLATERAL. They didn't
have to show that they had assets in reserve to back up the mortage
defaults in the event that they did fail.

It was almost like a license to print money. The higher ups in those
companies made huge bonuses by selling the credit default swaps in a
positive housing market because none of the loans were defaulting. It
was pure profit. The problem came when the housing market declined, the
policies came due and there were no assets to back up the policies. The
banks were so big that the financial system would grind to a halt if
they failed, so the government was forced to step in and bail them out.
In the meantime, the people who sold those deriviatives got to keep
their bonuses.

The system is incentivized in such a way that it's bound to happen again
if it's not regulated.

When the markets aren't regulated, it's the invisible hand of the elite
that drives shares up, or down.

Dust off that old Michael Douglas DVD "Wallstreet", and see again, how
the game is played.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/28/opinion/28wed1.html

And now there is no money to bail out the victims, i.e. the taxpayers.
Productivity has gone up since 1987, income hasn't for the worker.
Bush gave the rich tax breaks.
There are more billionaires than ever before.
And now they cut support to the disabled, old, and the sick.
Libraries are cutting back.
The Post Office wants to cut back.
The parks of Detroit are closed.
There are potholes in the street.

And it costs Toronto $2 billion to have the rich come and plan for a
week? Two billion dollars of taxpayer dollars? Who calls the shots?

We all know where the money went. But our congesspeople won't let us tax
the one class that has benefitted from the last quarter century
neo-liberal greed.

I just hope we can make as much noise as the Greeks are doing.

What if in the future, ten percent of the worlds
population can provide for 100 percent of all goods and services through
free trade and automation, What kind of economic system will one have
where 90 percent of the population has no job? The good times are over
with.

The world is becoming more productive each and every year. Capitalism is
a dying economic system. I am not saying the future will be a good
future. Rationing on all levels will occur. Distribution of wealth is
the only answer. Like it or not.

Is that a pink tie you are wearing ? I had one 50 years ago and I'd
love to find it again. Pinko!

Dan L and " I feel fine" sort of misses the irony issue. 22 years ago
some folks thought slash and burn ( Carbon freeing) was not good and
gave us a heads up. Warnings can only go so far as most seem to need to
feel the heat before they withdraw the hand. Trouble is like the frog
in cold water he will not jump out with the boil.
Most now look at long term as next week, some Dec 25 but longer that is
not their problem. Gross assumption.
Gardeners however have too look at the longer picture and sometimes
they may look much further. Why? I don't know but love of life may be
in the top 5 modus operants.

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden
What use one more wake up call?

Billy wrote:
In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

Besides some drip irrigation well timed for the garden.
Refreshed the bird bath and turned off most electric this soon.
about 103 and dew point 62 F.

Don't feel neglected, this is a global heat wave. Half of "Democracy
Now" today, is on climate warming and what will happen (people die),

Nah. It's 11C and drizzling rain here all week. No global heat
wave. Therefore AGW is just a myth. Just those pinko socialists
trying for world domination. Pah!

David

Some of my favorite things are pink.

Moreover, aren't you going to be shocked in 3 months, to find that the
world has gotten warmer. Maybe all the way up to 20C.

Don't be so dismissive. There are far too many people who believe the
global pinko conspiracy is the explanation for the scientific consensus and
there are vested interests pushing it as much as possible. It doesn't have
to make sense it just has to agree with prejudice and the imagined view of
the world. And there is plenty of that.

David

Dan L. wrote:
In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

Besides some drip irrigation well timed for the garden.
Refreshed the bird bath and turned off most electric this soon.
about 103 and dew point 62 F.

Don't feel neglected, this is a global heat wave. Half of
"Democracy Now" today, is on climate warming and what will happen
(people die),

Nah. It's 11C and drizzling rain here all week. No global heat
wave. Therefore AGW is just a myth. Just those pinko socialists
trying for world domination. Pah!

David

Of the two economic systems Capitalism and Socialism, Socialism will
be the survivor. What if in the future, ten percent of the worlds
population can provide for 100 percent of all goods and services
through free trade and automation, What kind of economic system will
one have where 90 percent of the population has no job? The good
times are over with.

The world is becoming more productive each and every year. Capitalism
is a dying economic system. I am not saying the future will be a good
future. Rationing on all levels will occur. Distribution of wealth is
the only answer. Like it or not.

I am not sure what the replacement system will be but laissez faire
capitalism isn't going to be the winner. The simple reason is that nobody
knows how to make it run without constant growth. The resources of the
world are limited and so growth WILL come to an end. The question is, will
we be vaguely in control and managing the situation or will it be a crash
landing?

David

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Dan L. wrote:
In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

Besides some drip irrigation well timed for the garden.
Refreshed the bird bath and turned off most electric this soon.
about 103 and dew point 62 F.

Don't feel neglected, this is a global heat wave. Half of
"Democracy Now" today, is on climate warming and what will happen
(people die),

Nah. It's 11C and drizzling rain here all week. No global heat
wave. Therefore AGW is just a myth. Just those pinko socialists
trying for world domination. Pah!

David

Of the two economic systems Capitalism and Socialism, Socialism will
be the survivor. What if in the future, ten percent of the worlds
population can provide for 100 percent of all goods and services
through free trade and automation, What kind of economic system will
one have where 90 percent of the population has no job? The good
times are over with.

The world is becoming more productive each and every year. Capitalism
is a dying economic system. I am not saying the future will be a good
future. Rationing on all levels will occur. Distribution of wealth is
the only answer. Like it or not.

I am not sure what the replacement system will be but laissez faire
capitalism isn't going to be the winner. The simple reason is that nobody
knows how to make it run without constant growth. The resources of the
world are limited and so growth WILL come to an end. The question is, will
we be vaguely in control and managing the situation or will it be a crash
landing?

David

The near future economic system could be: ANARCHISM

--
Enjoy Life... Dan

Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.

"Dan L." writes:

I am not sure that the term "fossil fuel" is correct anymore. It was
once thought that oil came from fossils and limited. The earth itself,
deep underground makes the oil from a chemical process. Oil may be
unlimited, one just has to go deep, very deep.

The theory you are proposing is called "Abiogenic petroleum origin":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

The way you characterize this theory:

"It was once thought that oil came from fossils and limited."

is outright wrong.

Just about everyone believes that oil has a biogenic origin.

I've looked into this more than once and I'd say this "abiogenic"
stuff is nothing more than wishful thinking.

That is why they now call
it "Carbon Fuels" not "Fossil Fuels". However, oil in every stage of
production is toxic. It is best to get away from carbon fuels.

That's wrong too. "They" still call oil a fossil fuel.