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Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
OK, global climate change is a fact. I don't want to get into whether
it is caused by humans or not, so I will ignore any replies that argue that. My gardening question is this: all the best scenarios say weather will become more extreme and more variable. Variable extreme weather is death to the home gardener. Any suggestions on this? Chris |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
In article
, Chris wrote: OK, global climate change is a fact. I don't want to get into whether it is caused by humans or not, so I will ignore any replies that argue that. My gardening question is this: all the best scenarios say weather will become more extreme and more variable. Variable extreme weather is death to the home gardener. Any suggestions on this? Chris For the last 4 decades, as I read it, there have been no global cold records, however there are a number of global record highs. The rain is going to move North, and the greatest temperature change will be at the higher latitudes. Water shortages may begin in 9 years. I don't mean to alarm anyone, but exponential growth is impressive. One becomes 2, becomes 4, which becomes 8, to 16, and so on and so forth, usw. Now, if you had a pond that filled exponentially in 13 days, at how many days would half a pond be? For example, if just the ice around Greenland melted, it would raise the sea level 6'. Out of 150 original glaciers in Glacier National Park, 29 remain. Do you know who your Congressional representatives are? What are they doing about Global Warming, over population, and the disappearing water, which without "modern crops" can't be grown. A whole lot of countries including China, India, and the U.S.A. are running out of water quickly, like in California where farmers can make more money selling water than they can farming. Contact your Congresspersons, and maybe stake your claim to the first Arctic Ocean resort. -- - Billy Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria of the American political landscape. America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash. It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks and the portfolios of the uber-rich. http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore /michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/ |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
On 5/29/11 8:44 PM, Chris wrote:
OK, global climate change is a fact. I don't want to get into whether it is caused by humans or not, so I will ignore any replies that argue that. My gardening question is this: all the best scenarios say weather will become more extreme and more variable. Variable extreme weather is death to the home gardener. Any suggestions on this? Chris In 10 years, I will be 80. I hope to putter, but I strongly doubt whether I will climb my hill to tend my grape vines. Even today, when I reach the top of the hill, I have to take a few minutes to catch my breath. The hill is more steep than the county's current grading codes allow; I can stand on the top and inspect the roof of my two-story house. In 10 years, I am unlikely to still be pruning my peach tree or mock orange (Pittosporum tobira) bushes. I don't know if I will be able to drag my 75-foot hose around the yard. That does NOT mean I am unconcerned about climate change. I am very concerned because I have grandchildren, and I want them to have grandchildren. -- David E. Ross Climate: California Mediterranean Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19) Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
"Chris" wrote in message
... OK, global climate change is a fact. I don't want to get into whether it is caused by humans or not, so I will ignore any replies that argue that. My gardening question is this: all the best scenarios say weather will become more extreme and more variable. Variable extreme weather is death to the home gardener. Any suggestions on this? ????? Garden as one would do in an area of extremes of course. |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
Chris wrote:
OK, global climate change is a fact. I don't want to get into whether it is caused by humans or not, so I will ignore any replies that argue that. My gardening question is this: all the best scenarios say weather will become more extreme and more variable. Variable extreme weather is death to the home gardener. Any suggestions on this? Chris More and more companies are growing produce inside green houses where the environment is controlled. Here in Michigan, many stores get their produce from Canada where tomatoes and lettuces are grown year round indoors. If the Earths environment gets real bad due to global warming, it will not be the end of human life. Nature itself will be destroyed, but humans and selected animals may continue in a controlled indoor environment. Like living on another planet like Mars or Eaarth. Growing foods indoors on a personal scale is also a growing industry. Since Michigan passed the Medical Weed law, there are now many many hydroponic and gardening stores on every street corner. In those stores are all kinds of grow lights, large pots and fertilizers for growing just about everything. For others not so fortunate to have the money or land, the average person can consume a product called "Soylent Green". -- Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan) |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
Chris writes:
OK, global climate change is a fact. I don't want to get into whether it is caused by humans or not, so I will ignore any replies that argue that. My gardening question is this: all the best scenarios say weather will become more extreme and more variable. Variable extreme weather is death to the home gardener. Any suggestions on this? Seems to me, they garden in Alaska and at the Equator. Aren't those both examples of extreme weather? Maybe you have some other kind of extreme in mind? The tornados ripping through the middle of the US affect a very small percentage of the total land surface. Anyway, what's with the doom and gloom. Here in the northern hemisphere it's spring and phrases like "death to the home gardener" seem so inappropriate. A robin has built it's nest on top of the box that was installed for FIOS on my house. I'm enjoying peeking out the door watching the robin sit patiently on it's eggs. It's nest is on the FIOS box and right under the electric meter. 2 days ago we had about 15 minutes of the heaviest rain I've seen in a while. The winds must have hit about 45MPH. I was a bit concerned about the robin so I peeked out the door and saw that the house and the electric meter protected the bird nicely. It looked like it was enjoying the weather. Points a 1. Adopt a positive attitude. 2. Life (and gardens) will find a way. -- Dan Espen |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
On May 30, 1:05*am, Billy wrote:
In article , *Chris wrote: OK, global climate change is a fact. I don't want to get into whether it is caused by humans or not, so I will ignore any replies that argue that. My gardening question is this: all the best scenarios say weather will become more extreme and more variable. Variable extreme weather is death to the home gardener. Any suggestions on this? Chris For the last 4 decades, as I read it, there have been no global cold records, however there are a number of global record highs. The rain is going to move North, and the greatest temperature change will be at the higher latitudes. Water shortages may begin in 9 years. I don't mean to alarm anyone, but exponential growth is impressive. One becomes 2, becomes 4, which becomes 8, to 16, and so on and so forth, usw. Now, if you had a pond that filled exponentially in 13 days, at how many days would half a pond be? For example, if just the ice around Greenland melted, it would raise the sea level 6'. Out of 150 original glaciers in Glacier National Park, 29 remain. Do you know who your Congressional representatives are? What are they doing about Global Warming, over population, and the disappearing water, which without "modern crops" can't be grown. A whole lot of countries including China, India, and the U.S.A. are running out of water quickly, like in California where farmers can make more money selling water than they can farming. Contact your Congresspersons, and maybe stake your claim to the first Arctic Ocean resort. -- - Billy Not to mention the impending disaster when the aquifers in western North America are pumped dry. They're taking about 6 more inches out than are replenished, annually. If you think the price of bread or flour is high now, wait until that water crunch hits. Chris Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria of the American political landscape. America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash. It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks and the portfolios of the uber-rich. http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2011/mar/10/michael-mo... |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
On May 30, 1:39*am, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message ... OK, global climate change is a fact. I don't want to get into whether it is caused by humans or not, so I will ignore any replies that argue that. My gardening question is this: all the best scenarios say weather will become more extreme and more variable. Variable extreme weather is death to the home gardener. Any suggestions on this? ????? *Garden as one would do in an area of extremes of course. Extreme is one thing. When you toss in "variable" it becomes another whole problem. Chris |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
On May 30, 10:08*am, wrote:
Chris writes: OK, global climate change is a fact. I don't want to get into whether it is caused by humans or not, so I will ignore any replies that argue that. My gardening question is this: all the best scenarios say weather will become more extreme and more variable. Variable extreme weather is death to the home gardener. Any suggestions on this? Seems to me, they garden in Alaska and at the Equator. Aren't those both examples of extreme weather? Of course they are. Extreme weather by itself is not a problem. Extreme weather that has become variable IS a problem. Maybe you have some other kind of extreme in mind? Nope. Extremes of temperature and rainfall are exactly what I had in mind. The tornados ripping through the middle of the US affect a very small percentage of the total land surface. Yup. I didn't mention those. Anyway, what's with the doom and gloom. *Here in the northern hemisphere it's spring and phrases like "death to the home gardener" seem so inappropriate. A robin has built it's nest on top of the box that was installed for FIOS on my house. *I'm enjoying peeking out the door watching the robin sit patiently on it's eggs. *It's nest is on the FIOS box and right under the electric meter. *2 days ago we had about 15 minutes of the heaviest rain I've seen in a while. *The winds must have hit about 45MPH. *I was a bit concerned about the robin so I peeked out the door and saw that the house and the electric meter protected the bird nicely. It looked like it was enjoying the weather. The only reason you HAVE a robin near your house is because Rachel Carson rang the doom and gloom bell and showed that pesticide use would be, say, "death to the Spring birdwatcher". (My words, not hers.) Now, I am no Rachel Carson. But people like James Hansen and Carl Safina walk in her shoes (read "Song for a Blue Ocean"). Points a 1. Adopt a positive attitude. I HAVE a positive attitude. That's why I am trying to do a little part to save the planet for my kid. 2. Life (and gardens) will find a way. Sure they will. My question was, what way? But if we can at least ameliorate an impending disaster, isn't that better? Chris -- Dan Espen |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
Ten years? In ten years several posters here will be dead, you
imbecile! |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
On May 30, 2:50*pm, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
Ten years? *In ten years several posters here will be dead, you imbecile! Thank you for that cogent, reasoned, detailed, and appropriate response. Chris |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
Chris wrote:
OK, global climate change is a fact. I don't want to get into whether it is caused by humans or not, so I will ignore any replies that argue that. My gardening question is this: all the best scenarios say weather will become more extreme and more variable. Variable extreme weather is death to the home gardener. Any suggestions on this? always have plan B, C and D through Z. is there some specific variance you are worried about? songbird |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
Nad R wrote:
.... If the Earths environment gets real bad due to global warming, it will not be the end of human life. Nature itself will be destroyed, but humans and selected animals may continue in a controlled indoor environment. Like living on another planet like Mars or Eaarth. nature itself will be fine. individual species might go extinct, but it is likely that many others will continue along just unperturbed. others will thrive in the new ecological niches created. i would have enjoyed living on the moon and having to learn how to grow things in a closed system smaller than the earth. with the system i've got going for worms it would be fun to take it up a notch. :) so far efforts at large scale closed systems have not been very successful so i think it wise to keep the research going. are you aware of any other long term closed systems like the biospheres? i'm not. last i looked all similar systems still need a large source of raw materials and have to have a large space to disperse waste products. that alone warns us of the perils of overpopulation and we are bound and determined to ignore it... songbird |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
ImbecileChris wrote:
Brooklyn1 wrote: Ten years? *In ten years several posters here will be dead, you imbecile! Thank you for that cogent, reasoned, detailed, and appropriate response. You forgot 'accurate', IMBECILE! LOL-LOL |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
wrote:
1. Adopt a positive attitude. 2. Life (and gardens) will find a way. I disagree with your two points on life. #1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book. Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". A person with a negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend some extra time and get it right. #2 Life does not always find away. The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are always putting profit over health and environment. -- Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan) |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
In article
, Chris wrote: On May 30, 1:05*am, Billy wrote: In article , *Chris wrote: OK, global climate change is a fact. I don't want to get into whether it is caused by humans or not, so I will ignore any replies that argue that. My gardening question is this: all the best scenarios say weather will become more extreme and more variable. Variable extreme weather is death to the home gardener. Any suggestions on this? Chris For the last 4 decades, as I read it, there have been no global cold records, however there are a number of global record highs. The rain is going to move North, and the greatest temperature change will be at the higher latitudes. Water shortages may begin in 9 years. I don't mean to alarm anyone, but exponential growth is impressive. One becomes 2, becomes 4, which becomes 8, to 16, and so on and so forth, usw. Now, if you had a pond that filled exponentially in 13 days, at how many days would half a pond be? For example, if just the ice around Greenland melted, it would raise the sea level 6'. Out of 150 original glaciers in Glacier National Park, 29 remain. Do you know who your Congressional representatives are? What are they doing about Global Warming, over population, and the disappearing water, which without "modern crops" can't be grown. A whole lot of countries including China, India, and the U.S.A. are running out of water quickly, like in California where farmers can make more money selling water than they can farming. Contact your Congresspersons, and maybe stake your claim to the first Arctic Ocean resort. -- - Billy Not to mention the impending disaster when the aquifers in western North America are pumped dry. They're taking about 6 more inches out than are replenished, annually. If you think the price of bread or flour is high now, wait until that water crunch hits. Chris The Ogalla Aquifer in Nebraska and Kansas seems OK, but it is running dry in Texas and New Mexico. Aquifers in Yemen, India, northern China, Afghanistan, Mexico, and Pakistan are being pumped faster than they can recharge. There is fossil water aquifers in Saudi Arabia, which are close to running dry. One fifth of the American grain, 3/5 Indian grain, and 4/5 of China's grain comes from irrigation. India and China account for 40% of the worlds population. These 3 countries account for 50% of the world's annual grain harvest. Half the world's population live in countries with falling aquifers. Forty percent of the world's grain comes from irrigated land, and 70% of the worlds fresh water is used for irrigation. Add to this diminished snow falls, as on the Sierras in California that is diverted to farming in the Central Valley, and vanishing glaciers in Bolivia and India, and a scary problem presents itself. IIRC in 1970 there was 130 days of excess food for everyone on the planet. Today there is 40 days of excess food. A 3 foot rise in the oceans would sharply reduce the amount of rice grown in Bangladesh, and the Mekong Delta. Vietnam exports rice to 20 countries. When temperatures rise during the growing season, grain yields fall. Crop ecologists use a rule of thumb that for each 1-degree-Celsius rise in temperature above the optimum during the growing season, you can expect a 10% decline in grain yields. Photosynthesis plateaus at 95 degrees Fahrenheit, declines to 104 degrees F, and then stops. My latest reading material is: "World on the Edge: How to Prevent Environmental and Economic Collapse" by Lester Russell Brown http://www.amazon.com/World-Edge-Env...llapse/dp/0393 339491/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1306790530&sr=1-1 (Available at a library near you [while they are still open]) -- - Billy Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria of the American political landscape. America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash. It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks and the portfolios of the uber-rich. http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore /michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/ |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
Nad R writes:
wrote: 1. Adopt a positive attitude. 2. Life (and gardens) will find a way. I disagree with your two points on life. #1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book. Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". A person with a negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend some extra time and get it right. #2 Life does not always find away. The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are always putting profit over health and environment. Being afraid and expecting the worst is no way to go through life. Somehow, with my basically positive attitude I manage to minimize my impact on the environment and leave the world a little better than I found it. The earth has a lot of problems, but in my short life I've seen Blue Claws return to the Hudson. My neighborhood (NJ) is crawling with deer, I see foxes, wild turkeys, bears. There was a coyote in Manhattan a while back. -- Dan Espen |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
wrote:
Nad R writes: wrote: 1. Adopt a positive attitude. 2. Life (and gardens) will find a way. I disagree with your two points on life. #1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book. Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". A person with a negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend some extra time and get it right. #2 Life does not always find away. The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are always putting profit over health and environment. Being afraid and expecting the worst is no way to go through life. Somehow, with my basically positive attitude I manage to minimize my impact on the environment and leave the world a little better than I found it. The earth has a lot of problems, but in my short life I've seen Blue Claws return to the Hudson. My neighborhood (NJ) is crawling with deer, I see foxes, wild turkeys, bears. There was a coyote in Manhattan a while back. I am not afraid at all... I just do not trust others to make good decisions. I will try and protect myself from others overly optimistic views. I too try to minimize my impact on the earth and others, but it is not easy by any means. I see deer overpopulation as a negative impact on the environment. I too have foxes and turkeys in my neighborhood also. Frogs seem to be disappearing and I do not see as many good bugs like praying mantis and stick bugs. -- Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan) |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
|
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
On Mon, 30 May 2011 14:50:53 -0400, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
Ten years? In ten years several posters here will be dead, you imbecile! Probably. But does that mean we should do nothing? Does it mean we should hold a party for them now? Are you trying to say something in your pointlessly insulting way or just to be pointlessly insulting without saying anything? David |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
On Mon, 30 May 2011 20:35:12 +0000 (UTC), Nad R
wrote: wrote: 1. Adopt a positive attitude. 2. Life (and gardens) will find a way. I disagree with your two points on life. #1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book. Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". You are so gloomy, I bet your glass is always less than half empty and you would be shocked if it got half full. A person with a negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend some extra time and get it right. This is where your sour view disables you. This is a non sequitur. There is no incompatibility between a positive attitude and using foresight, planning and risk assessment. There is incompatibility between a negative attitude and harnessing your maximum energy to take the necessary action that your planning tells you is required. #2 Life does not always find away. Short of a planet-cracking bolide life will endure, even then some microbes might make it to start all over again. The challenge in front of us is to find a way to endure that will minimise death and pain. The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are always putting profit over health and environment. That is true but it points to the solution: humans must fix what they carelessly put at risk. Hiding away and saying "oh woe is us" will not get it done. David |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
On May 30, 4:24*pm, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
ImbecileChris wrote: Brooklyn1 wrote: Ten years? *In ten years several posters here will be dead, you imbecile! Thank you for that cogent, reasoned, detailed, and appropriate response. You forgot 'accurate', IMBECILE! LOL-LOL Please remember to take the blue pill in the morning and the pink pill in the evening. NOT the other way around. Chris |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
On May 30, 5:37*pm, wrote:
Nad R writes: wrote: 1. Adopt a positive attitude. 2. Life (and gardens) will find a way. I disagree with your two points on life. #1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book. Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". A person with a negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend some extra time and get it right. #2 Life does not always find away. The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are always putting profit over health and environment. Being afraid and expecting the worst is no way to go through life. Somehow, with my basically positive attitude I manage to minimize my impact on the environment and leave the world a little better than I found it. The earth has a lot of problems, but in my short life I've seen Blue Claws return to the Hudson. *My neighborhood (NJ) is crawling with deer, I see foxes, wild turkeys, bears. *There was a coyote in Manhattan a while back. -- Dan Espen You see deer because of bad land management practices and the elimination of predators. Wild turkeys have been introduced to many areas. Black bears are extremely versatile animals. When you see them in human-inhabited areas, it means they do not have sufficient wild area for them to establish a territory. Ditto, coyotes. Chris |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
David Hare-Scott writes:
On Mon, 30 May 2011 10:08:59 -0400, wrote: Chris writes: 2. Life (and gardens) will find a way. Ever heard the curse "may you live in interesting times"? I love that saying. When things really start going down the drain, you still find solace. "At least it's interesting". :) -- Dan Espen |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
David Hare-Scott wrote:
On Mon, 30 May 2011 20:35:12 +0000 (UTC), Nad R wrote: wrote: 1. Adopt a positive attitude. 2. Life (and gardens) will find a way. I disagree with your two points on life. #1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book. Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". You are so gloomy, I bet your glass is always less than half empty and you would be shocked if it got half full. Not only is the glass ( Earth ) is half empty with good ideas it is polluted and leaking also. I say stop humans from breeding like rats... But others believe this is a negative view, I say it is positive view. A person with a negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend some extra time and get it right. This is where your sour view disables you. This is a non sequitur. There is no incompatibility between a positive attitude and using foresight, planning and risk assessment. There is incompatibility between a negative attitude and harnessing your maximum energy to take the necessary action that your planning tells you is required. How does this disable one? I disagree with your presuppositions on incompatibility and foresight. I see a lot of people with positive attitudes taking the primrose path to solving problems. Many just get plain lucky. If It fails, we will fix it and fix it and fix it... As things keep getting worse and worse. #2 Life does not always find away. Short of a planet-cracking bolide life will endure, even then some microbes might make it to start all over again. The challenge in front of us is to find a way to endure that will minimise death and pain. Now who is thinking negatively! Minimize death and pain? Not improving life and longevity? Hmmmmm...... The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are always putting profit over health and environment. That is true but it points to the solution: humans must fix what they carelessly put at risk. Hiding away and saying "oh woe is us" will not get it done. Cool, you keep on fixing those nuclear power plants in Australia. Me I say get rid of them. But those with positive attitudes say "We can fix it". Yea right. -- Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan) |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
Chris wrote:
On May 30, 5:37 pm, wrote: Nad R writes: wrote: 1. Adopt a positive attitude. 2. Life (and gardens) will find a way. I disagree with your two points on life. #1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book. Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". A person with a negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend some extra time and get it right. #2 Life does not always find away. The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are always putting profit over health and environment. Being afraid and expecting the worst is no way to go through life. Somehow, with my basically positive attitude I manage to minimize my impact on the environment and leave the world a little better than I found it. The earth has a lot of problems, but in my short life I've seen Blue Claws return to the Hudson. My neighborhood (NJ) is crawling with deer, I see foxes, wild turkeys, bears. There was a coyote in Manhattan a while back. -- Dan Espen You see deer because of bad land management practices and the elimination of predators. Wild turkeys have been introduced to many areas. Black bears are extremely versatile animals. When you see them in human-inhabited areas, it means they do not have sufficient wild area for them to establish a territory. Ditto, coyotes. Chris Yep, that is how I see it. He sees this as Positive Thinking attribute.... see the good! Positive thinkers are short sighted. -- Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan) |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
wrote:
David Hare-Scott writes: On Mon, 30 May 2011 10:08:59 -0400, wrote: Chris writes: 2. Life (and gardens) will find a way. Ever heard the curse "may you live in interesting times"? I love that saying. When things really start going down the drain, you still find solace. "At least it's interesting". :) I suppose you also like the saying "Suffering Builds Character" also.... NOT! -- Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan) |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
Chris writes:
On May 30, 5:37Â*pm, wrote: Nad R writes: wrote: 1. Adopt a positive attitude. 2. Life (and gardens) will find a way. I disagree with your two points on life. #1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book. Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". A person with a negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend some extra time and get it right. #2 Life does not always find away. The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are always putting profit over health and environment. Being afraid and expecting the worst is no way to go through life. Somehow, with my basically positive attitude I manage to minimize my impact on the environment and leave the world a little better than I found it. The earth has a lot of problems, but in my short life I've seen Blue Claws return to the Hudson. Â*My neighborhood (NJ) is crawling with deer, I see foxes, wild turkeys, bears. Â*There was a coyote in Manhattan a while back. -- Dan Espen You see deer because of bad land management practices and the elimination of predators. I hate the deer. But the land is healthy enough to support a load of them and we aren't hunting them to extinction. Wild turkeys have been introduced to many areas. Not here. They're back because there are ecosystems that can support them. And we aren't hunting them to extinction. Black bears are extremely versatile animals. When you see them in human-inhabited areas, it means they do not have sufficient wild area for them to establish a territory. No, they're doing so well in the wild areas that they overflow into human inhabited areas. And we aren't hunting them to extinction. Ditto, coyotes. -- Dan Espen |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
wrote:
Chris writes: On May 30, 5:37 pm, wrote: Nad R writes: wrote: 1. Adopt a positive attitude. 2. Life (and gardens) will find a way. I disagree with your two points on life. #1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book. Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". A person with a negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend some extra time and get it right. #2 Life does not always find away. The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are always putting profit over health and environment. Being afraid and expecting the worst is no way to go through life. Somehow, with my basically positive attitude I manage to minimize my impact on the environment and leave the world a little better than I found it. The earth has a lot of problems, but in my short life I've seen Blue Claws return to the Hudson. My neighborhood (NJ) is crawling with deer, I see foxes, wild turkeys, bears. There was a coyote in Manhattan a while back. -- Dan Espen You see deer because of bad land management practices and the elimination of predators. I hate the deer. But the land is healthy enough to support a load of them and we aren't hunting them to extinction. NO, they are breading because it illegal to shoot the does in numbers, a bad management policy. I have had two deer hits with my truck that has cost me and the insurance company lots of money.The only predator they have are humans... I say bring back the panthers and wolves in your back yard to bring nature back in balance. Also deer are not native to America. Wild turkeys have been introduced to many areas. Not here. They're back because there are ecosystems that can support them. And we aren't hunting them to extinction. They breed turkeys and pheasants here in Michigan also. They DNR also breeds fish for the great lakes. Without breeding it is estimated the great would have no fish in just five years or less. Black bears are extremely versatile animals. When you see them in human-inhabited areas, it means they do not have sufficient wild area for them to establish a territory. No, they're doing so well in the wild areas that they overflow into human inhabited areas. And we aren't hunting them to extinction. Ditto, coyotes. Black bears are not doing well here also. Those Asians want big bucks for bear's liver as an aphrodisiac. So the poaching is devastating them. Please enlighten me with more positive views... Pathetic... -- Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan) |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
On Tue, 31 May 2011 02:09:20 +0000 (UTC), Nad R
wrote: David Hare-Scott wrote: On Mon, 30 May 2011 20:35:12 +0000 (UTC), Nad R wrote: wrote: 1. Adopt a positive attitude. 2. Life (and gardens) will find a way. I disagree with your two points on life. #1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book. Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". You are so gloomy, I bet your glass is always less than half empty and you would be shocked if it got half full. Not only is the glass ( Earth ) is half empty with good ideas it is polluted and leaking also. I say stop humans from breeding like rats... But others believe this is a negative view, I say it is positive view. Many environmental problems will be solved or at least ameliorated if we can limit population growth. Short of the Chinese solution that isn't going to happen quickly. A person with a negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend some extra time and get it right. This is where your sour view disables you. This is a non sequitur. There is no incompatibility between a positive attitude and using foresight, planning and risk assessment. There is incompatibility between a negative attitude and harnessing your maximum energy to take the necessary action that your planning tells you is required. How does this disable one? Because you cannot get people to do something they believe is impossible and you cannot get them to work their hardest if they don't see a positive outcome at some time now or in the future. Positive feelings don't allow you to do things that are physically impossible but they a degree of faith allows you to get towards doing your best. This is the basis of sport psychology, any kind of leadership and one of the better aspects of religion. It is a question of motivating people, you cannot motivate people well if they feel hopeless. I disagree with your presuppositions on incompatibility and foresight. I see a lot of people with positive attitudes taking the primrose path to solving problems. Many just get plain lucky. If It fails, we will fix it and fix it and fix it... As things keep getting worse and worse. You need rationality to make good decisions and optimism to act. #2 Life does not always find away. Short of a planet-cracking bolide life will endure, even then some microbes might make it to start all over again. The challenge in front of us is to find a way to endure that will minimise death and pain. Now who is thinking negatively! Minimize death and pain? Not improving life and longevity? Hmmmmm...... This is playing with words. I never said there are no unfortunate or undesirable things happening in the world. My optimism is that we can do something about them. This doesn't mean the future is rosy (it isn't) it means a partial solution is better than none. The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are always putting profit over health and environment. That is true but it points to the solution: humans must fix what they carelessly put at risk. Hiding away and saying "oh woe is us" will not get it done. Cool, you keep on fixing those nuclear power plants in Australia. Me I say get rid of them. But those with positive attitudes say "We can fix it". Yea right. We don't have any nuclear power plants. The attitude you refer to is optimism without rationality, I never suggested that, please don't put words in my mouth. If the way you defend it says anything I don't think your dour world view is of a very rational origin. Anyway I don't want to get too personal so let's not go any further in that direction. D |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
"Brooklyn1" Gravesend1 wrote in message
... Ten years? In ten years several posters here will be dead, you imbecile! LOL. Fair point. |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
"Nad R" wrote in message
If the Earths environment gets real bad due to global warming, it will not be the end of human life. Nature itself will be destroyed, but humans and selected animals may continue in a controlled indoor environment. Like living on another planet like Mars or Eaarth. How do you see this as being a possibility where nature itself has been destroyed? |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
"Nad R" wrote in message
... David Hare-Scott wrote: On Mon, 30 May 2011 20:35:12 +0000 (UTC), Nad R wrote: wrote: 1. Adopt a positive attitude. 2. Life (and gardens) will find a way. I disagree with your two points on life. #1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book. Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". You are so gloomy, I bet your glass is always less than half empty and you would be shocked if it got half full. Not only is the glass ( Earth ) is half empty with good ideas it is polluted and leaking also. I say stop humans from breeding like rats... But others believe this is a negative view, I say it is positive view. A person with a negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend some extra time and get it right. This is where your sour view disables you. This is a non sequitur. There is no incompatibility between a positive attitude and using foresight, planning and risk assessment. There is incompatibility between a negative attitude and harnessing your maximum energy to take the necessary action that your planning tells you is required. How does this disable one? I disagree with your presuppositions on incompatibility and foresight. I see a lot of people with positive attitudes taking the primrose path to solving problems. Many just get plain lucky. If It fails, we will fix it and fix it and fix it... As things keep getting worse and worse. #2 Life does not always find away. Short of a planet-cracking bolide life will endure, even then some microbes might make it to start all over again. The challenge in front of us is to find a way to endure that will minimise death and pain. Now who is thinking negatively! Minimize death and pain? Not improving life and longevity? Hmmmmm...... The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are always putting profit over health and environment. That is true but it points to the solution: humans must fix what they carelessly put at risk. Hiding away and saying "oh woe is us" will not get it done. Cool, you keep on fixing those nuclear power plants in Australia. We only have one and it's tiny and not used for powere generation - something to do with nuclear medicine IIRC. Me I say get rid of them. But those with positive attitudes say "We can fix it". Yea right. Unfortunately I don't think that 'they' are even saying that much. I think that those who should be saying 'we can fix it', either don't know there is a problem, or are ignoring it because anything needing fixing is (they think) beyond the next election. |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
Because you cannot get people to do something they believe is impossible and you cannot get them to work their hardest if they don't see a positive outcome at some time now or in the future. Positive feelings don't allow you to do things that are physically impossible but they a degree of faith allows you to get towards doing your best. This is the basis of sport psychology, any kind of leadership and one of the better aspects of religion. It is a question of motivating people, you cannot motivate people well if they feel hopeless. That sort of 'leadership' approach has always given me a case of the squits. I never watch team sports because of all that jolly hockey sticks coaching stuff which makes me want to gag. Such an approach doesn't allow for more than one mode of motivation and I believe that individuals can be motivated by many and varied techniques/approaches. Give me a rationale rather than that warm and fuzzy fluff stuff. |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
In article
, Chris wrote: On May 30, 4:24*pm, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote: ImbecileChris wrote: Brooklyn1 wrote: Ten years? *In ten years several posters here will be dead, you imbecile! Thank you for that cogent, reasoned, detailed, and appropriate response. You forgot 'accurate', IMBECILE! LOL-LOL Please remember to take the blue pill in the morning and the pink pill in the evening. NOT the other way around. Chris And now a few sane words. -- - Billy Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria of the American political landscape. America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash. It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks and the portfolios of the uber-rich. http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore /michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/ |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
On Tue, 31 May 2011 15:24:14 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote: "David Hare-Scott" wrote in message Because you cannot get people to do something they believe is impossible and you cannot get them to work their hardest if they don't see a positive outcome at some time now or in the future. Positive feelings don't allow you to do things that are physically impossible but they a degree of faith allows you to get towards doing your best. This is the basis of sport psychology, any kind of leadership and one of the better aspects of religion. It is a question of motivating people, you cannot motivate people well if they feel hopeless. That sort of 'leadership' approach has always given me a case of the squits. I never watch team sports because of all that jolly hockey sticks coaching stuff which makes me want to gag. Such an approach doesn't allow for more than one mode of motivation and I believe that individuals can be motivated by many and varied techniques/approaches. Give me a rationale rather than that warm and fuzzy fluff stuff. I am no team sport fan and the rah rah stuff is no good to me personally but it does work on most people, especially groups of males. Likewise a leader is no use to me unless I have a rational reason for going where they are going but that ought to be part of the package anyway by my definition of good leader. Forget about my examples, let's go back to the original topic. How are you going to get humanity to change their energy, transport and food systems? The approach of rational persuasion based on evidence has been a conspicuous failure so far. Why? It has been successfully countered by an irrational denial campaign. Bullshit baffles brains. Or at least has done this far. Fear will jog people out of their apathy and get things moving. Once you have done that what will motivate them to accept the transitional hardships? Hope for the future. If they feel hopeless they will not act as effectively, it will take longer and the consequences will be harsher. David |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Nad R" wrote in message If the Earths environment gets real bad due to global warming, it will not be the end of human life. Nature itself will be destroyed, but humans and selected animals may continue in a controlled indoor environment. Like living on another planet like Mars or Eaarth. How do you see this as being a possibility where nature itself has been destroyed? I believe the human race can go on without nature. Food stuff probably can be completely manufactured from basic elements. Quality of life may not be there, but humans could continue. It may be true that I watch to much science fiction also. Way too much... :) -- Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan) |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message Because you cannot get people to do something they believe is impossible and you cannot get them to work their hardest if they don't see a positive outcome at some time now or in the future. Positive feelings don't allow you to do things that are physically impossible but they a degree of faith allows you to get towards doing your best. This is the basis of sport psychology, any kind of leadership and one of the better aspects of religion. It is a question of motivating people, you cannot motivate people well if they feel hopeless. That sort of 'leadership' approach has always given me a case of the squits. I never watch team sports because of all that jolly hockey sticks coaching stuff which makes me want to gag. Such an approach doesn't allow for more than one mode of motivation and I believe that individuals can be motivated by many and varied techniques/approaches. Give me a rationale rather than that warm and fuzzy fluff stuff. I agree with that FarmI. I hate team sports and never watch them. I prefer to watch individuals sports, if i actually ever watch sport of any kind, like running or biking. I was going to comment on that also. The key word here is "Religion". People who believe are those of a "team" like mind. Very difficult to change those mind sets. -- Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan) |
Will you be gardening 10 years from now?
David Hare-Scott wrote:
If the way you defend it says anything I don't think your dour world view is of a very rational origin. Anyway I don't want to get too personal so let's not go any further in that direction. The old saying "Who said that the human race was rational" actually the correct word was "logical" from star trek. Yes, religion does play into an optimist view point. A god would not let this happen. One more reason I see no hope for the human race. As an atheist, I know it is an impossible task to change people's view point on many things. Perhaps if you view that only an optimist can change peoples view point then maybe I will agree on that. I will let it end here. You can have the last word if you wish. -- Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan) |
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