I save coffee grounds from OP (along with my tea leaves) for roses and
other decorative plants. He says banana peels are also good for
roses.

Trying to save myself misdirected effort, what is NG opinion:

Need to scratch in and water coffee grounds? Or bury? Or just leave
on surface?

When apply -- in rose's annual cycle.

Need to cut up or grind up banana peels? Same q. as above.

Same q, when apply.

TIA for opinion(s)

HB

In article
,
Higgs Boson wrote:

I save coffee grounds from OP (along with my tea leaves) for roses and
other decorative plants. He says banana peels are also good for
roses.

Trying to save myself misdirected effort, what is NG opinion:

Need to scratch in and water coffee grounds? Or bury? Or just leave
on surface?

Yes, Hypatia , glad to help.
You can use as mulch. The only reason to bury it would be to jump-start
very bad soil for a garden. Usually, you will bury nitrogen sources,
because the proteins breakdown releasing ammonia, which is a gas that
will dissolve into water.

When apply -- in rose's annual cycle.
Ideally, just before it pushes in the spring, when it will need the
nutrients the most. But they aren't like nitrogen, that will encourage
plants to waste energy pushing green foliage while they should be
resting. Or do your's bloom all year round in Santa Monica?

Need to cut up or grind up banana peels? Same q. as above.
Only if your in a rush.

Same q, when apply.
Anytime. Their nutrients aren't going anywhere, unless aided by a
squirrel, or a bird.

TIA for opinion(s)
Nichts zu danken.

HB

--
E Pluribus Unum

Know where your money is tonight?
It's making the lives of Wall Street Bankers more comfortable.

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

On Jul 6, 10:46*am, Billy wrote:
In article
,
*Higgs Boson wrote:

I save coffee grounds from OP (along with my tea leaves) for roses and
other decorative plants. *He says banana peels are also good for
roses.

Trying to save myself misdirected effort, what is NG opinion:

Need to scratch in and water coffee grounds? *Or bury? *Or just leave
on surface?

Yes, Hypatia , glad to help.
You can use as mulch. The only reason to bury it would be to jump-start
very bad soil for a garden. Usually, you will bury nitrogen sources,
because the proteins breakdown releasing ammonia, which is a gas that
will dissolve into water.

When apply -- in rose's annual cycle.

Ideally, just before it pushes in the spring, when it will need the
nutrients the most. But they aren't like nitrogen, that will encourage
plants to waste energy pushing green foliage while they should be
resting. Or do yours bloom all year round in Santa Monica?

***They might if left on their own, but would soon become disorderly.
We prune here in "winter". I key the job to my birthday in late
January.

Need to cut up or grind up banana peels? *Same q. as above.

Only if you''re in a rush.

Same q, when apply.

Anytime. Their nutrients aren't going anywhere, unless aided by a
squirrel, or a bird.


TIA for opinion(s)
Nicht zu danken.

[...]

Thanks

HB

On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 22:46:45 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson wrote:
I save coffee grounds from OP (along with my tea leaves) for roses and
other decorative plants. He says banana peels are also good for
roses.

Trying to save myself misdirected effort, what is NG opinion:

Need to scratch in and water coffee grounds? Or bury? Or just leave
on surface?

Toss 'em in the compost heap; add compost whenever you've got some and
it's the growing season.

Coffee grounds are fairly acidic... if you've got an acid soil, and are heavy
with the coffee grounds, you may actually push the pH too low for your plants.
Moderation in all things, except maybe compost. g

Roses are happiest with a pH of about 6.0 to 6.5.

Kay

In article ,
Kay Lancaster wrote:

On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 22:46:45 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:
I save coffee grounds from OP (along with my tea leaves) for roses and
other decorative plants. He says banana peels are also good for
roses.

Trying to save myself misdirected effort, what is NG opinion:

Need to scratch in and water coffee grounds? Or bury? Or just leave
on surface?

Toss 'em in the compost heap; add compost whenever you've got some and
it's the growing season.

Coffee grounds are fairly acidic... if you've got an acid soil, and are heavy
with the coffee grounds, you may actually push the pH too low for your
plants.
Moderation in all things, except maybe compost. g

Roses are happiest with a pH of about 6.0 to 6.5.

Kay

Sensei,
I have lost young annual plants (squash) after mulching them with coffee
grounds, but I have a web site that says that coffee grounds aren't
acidic, at least not significantly (6.5 and 6.8).
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080707171641.htm
Caveat:
http://groundtoground.org/tag/coffee-grounds-ph/

This site says that coffee grounds are about 2% nitrogen, but that seems
too low to burn plants.

In any event, don't perennial plants (such as roses) prefer soil on the
(fungal) acidic side, and vegetables (annuals) prefer basic (bacterial)
soils?

That said, wouldn't it be as beneficial to mulch perennials with the
grounds and bananas, and to top with straw to avoid decorative, esthetic
problems?

--
E Pluribus Unum

Know where your money is tonight?
It's making the lives of Wall Street Bankers more comfortable.

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

On Jul 7, 2:42*am, Kay Lancaster wrote:
On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 22:46:45 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson wrote:
I save coffee grounds from OP (along with my tea leaves) for roses and
other decorative plants. *He says banana peels are also good for
roses.

Trying to save myself misdirected effort, what is NG opinion:

Need to scratch in and water coffee grounds? *Or bury? *Or just leave
on surface?

Toss 'em in the compost heap; add compost whenever you've got some and
it's the growing season.

***I confess that when the City started accepting food waste to grind
up with their quarterly compost giveaway, I sold my not-very-good
composter, So sue me!

Coffee grounds are fairly acidic... if you've got an acid soil, and are heavy
with the coffee grounds, you may actually push the pH too low for your plants.
Moderation in all things, except maybe compost. g

Roses are happiest with a pH of about 6.0 to 6.5.

Kay

****Our soil here is alkaline -- California adobe. But my garden
soil has been modified over the (many) decades by previous owner and
moi, so I think it might be pretty well balanced. One of these days
I''ll get around to testing it g So I don't think coffee grounds
would create an acidic imbalance.

======What I ask is whether I have to scratch in or bury the coffee
grounds (and banana peels) or if it's enuff just to strew at the
outside root zone & water in.

Thoughts?

HB

On Jul 7, 9:47*am, Billy wrote:
In article ,
*Kay Lancaster wrote:









On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 22:46:45 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:
I save coffee grounds from OP (along with my tea leaves) for roses and
other decorative plants. *He says banana peels are also good for
roses.

Trying to save myself misdirected effort, what is NG opinion:

Need to scratch in and water coffee grounds? *Or bury? *Or just leave
on surface?

Toss 'em in the compost heap; add compost whenever you've got some and
it's the growing season.

Coffee grounds are fairly acidic... if you've got an acid soil, and are heavy
with the coffee grounds, you may actually push the pH too low for your
plants.
Moderation in all things, except maybe compost. g

Roses are happiest with a pH of about 6.0 to 6.5.

Kay

Sensei,
I have lost young annual plants (squash) after mulching them with coffee
grounds, but I have a web site that says that coffee grounds aren't
acidic, at least not significantly (6.5 and 6.8).
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080707171641.htm
Caveat:
http://groundtoground.org/tag/coffee-grounds-ph/

This site says that coffee grounds are about 2% nitrogen, but that seems
too low to burn plants.

In any event, don't perennial plants (such as roses) prefer soil on the
(fungal) acidic side, and vegetables (annuals) prefer basic (bacterial)
soils?

That said, wouldn't it be as beneficial to mulch perennials with the
grounds and bananas, and to top with straw to avoid decorative, esthetic
problems?

--
[...]

Perhaps, but I don't want to bother finding a straw source & dealing
with possible imported seeds.

Would small size ground cover mulch do as well? I buy bags & bags of
it and use along my rose paths as well as other decorative planting
areas to conserve water and discourage weeds (hah!).

HB

On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 09:47:46 -0700, Billy wrote:
In article ,
Kay Lancaster wrote:

On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 22:46:45 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:
I save coffee grounds from OP (along with my tea leaves) for roses and
other decorative plants. He says banana peels are also good for
roses.

Trying to save myself misdirected effort, what is NG opinion:

Need to scratch in and water coffee grounds? Or bury? Or just leave
on surface?

Toss 'em in the compost heap; add compost whenever you've got some and
it's the growing season.

Coffee grounds are fairly acidic... if you've got an acid soil, and are heavy
with the coffee grounds, you may actually push the pH too low for your
plants.
Moderation in all things, except maybe compost. g

Roses are happiest with a pH of about 6.0 to 6.5.

Kay

Sensei,
I have lost young annual plants (squash) after mulching them with coffee
grounds, but I have a web site that says that coffee grounds aren't
acidic, at least not significantly (6.5 and 6.8).
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080707171641.htm
Caveat:
http://groundtoground.org/tag/coffee-grounds-ph/


Most likely caffeine, which is a germination and growth inhibitor.


This site says that coffee grounds are about 2% nitrogen, but that seems
too low to burn plants.

That's pretty light, especially when it's not in free form.



In any event, don't perennial plants (such as roses) prefer soil on the
(fungal) acidic side, and vegetables (annuals) prefer basic (bacterial)
soils?

Nope.

http://www.garden-planting-tips.com/pH-soil-test.html

Have never heard of referring to soils as "fungal" or "bacterial" either.
But I don't read much of the popular garden literature.

http://www.extension.org/pages/13064...h-modification shows you some of
the effects of pH on soil nutrient "availability".

Kay




That said, wouldn't it be as beneficial to mulch perennials with the
grounds and bananas, and to top with straw to avoid decorative, esthetic
problems?

On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 14:31:27 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson wrote:
Toss 'em in the compost heap; add compost whenever you've got some and
it's the growing season.

***I confess that when the City started accepting food waste to grind
up with their quarterly compost giveaway, I sold my not-very-good
composter, So sue me!

Composter??? g As fancy as I've ever gotten with compost is four pallets
wired together to make an E -- shovel the pile from one side to another to turn
it. But as long as the city is willing to give you compost, I'd probably
be happy to take it. Though it's sometimes infested with pesticide residues
that can be pretty devastating. One of my buddies from grad school
was the one who initially spotted herbicide damage from compost given to the
community gardens in Pullman: http://www.jgpress.com/BCArticles/2001/070125.html

I've also done a lot of in-situ composting over the years... drag your bootheel
into the soil to make a trench, drop in whatever you've got, and kick a little
soil over it. Next year, the rows go where the trenches were. Lazy gardening
at its finest, though you don't want to dispose of diseased or seed-bearing
materials that way.


Coffee grounds are fairly acidic... if you've got an acid soil, and are heavy
with the coffee grounds, you may actually push the pH too low for your plants.
Moderation in all things, except maybe compost. g

Roses are happiest with a pH of about 6.0 to 6.5.

Kay

****Our soil here is alkaline -- California adobe. But my garden
soil has been modified over the (many) decades by previous owner and
moi, so I think it might be pretty well balanced. One of these days
I''ll get around to testing it g So I don't think coffee grounds
would create an acidic imbalance.

You've got a huge amount of alkaline reserves in your soil, so you may
be just fine pouring on the coffee grounds. Up here in the land of
no soil calcium to speak of, we'd be in trouble. Particularly if
I started dragging home coffee grounds from the local espresso stands that
are all over the place. g

I'd be interested to know how the native soil pH and your garden soil pH
compare now. It's really difficult to push a soil very far from its
native pH and have it hold at the new pH.

======What I ask is whether I have to scratch in or bury the coffee
grounds (and banana peels) or if it's enuff just to strew at the
outside root zone & water in.

Thoughts?

I think you can do what pleases you. While I don't like the smell of
coffee, I don't find the sight of it or decomposing banana peels
abhorrent. Some people do. That's the only real reason to bury, imho,
unless you're doing something strange like the volcano mulching that was
common around here a few years ago.

Higgs Boson wrote:

What I ask is whether I have to scratch in or bury the coffee
grounds (and banana peels) or if it's enuff just to strew at the
outside root zone & water in.

As with all organic matter coffee grounds need to be composted prior
to adding to the soil. Most books on composting explain not to
compost banana skins, like corn cobs/husks they won't compost for many
years, and then they add very little. Placing uncomposted garbage on
or in your garden soil will only attract vermin and harbor all manner
of plant diseases. If you are looking for a compost shortcut/work
around other than obtaining already composted material there is none.

Higgs Boson wrote:

Would small size ground cover mulch do as well? I buy bags & bags of
it and use along my rose paths as well as other decorative planting
areas to conserve water and discourage weeds (hah!).

Mulch and compost are very different, they're actually opposites,
mulch deters plant growth and compost encourages plant growth. Most
organic commercial mulch (like shredded barks) will over several years
eventually break down but adds very little by way of nutrients to
soil... and when mixed into the soil will cause all kinds of problems,
mostly because when smothered with soil it won't break down so will
harbor diseases. One year my neighbor shredded mountains of fallen
leaves and tilled them into his vegetable garden without composting
them first, his garden suffered terribly by an onslought of insects in
all their various stages and all kinds of diseases and molds, not to
mention the burrowing varmits that subsist on the insects and alos
devour the plant roots. You have a choice, gardening or landfill,
that's it.

In article ,
Kay Lancaster wrote:

On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 09:47:46 -0700, Billy wrote:
In article ,
Kay Lancaster wrote:

On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 22:46:45 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:
I save coffee grounds from OP (along with my tea leaves) for roses and
other decorative plants. He says banana peels are also good for
roses.

Trying to save myself misdirected effort, what is NG opinion:

Need to scratch in and water coffee grounds? Or bury? Or just leave
on surface?

Toss 'em in the compost heap; add compost whenever you've got some and
it's the growing season.

Coffee grounds are fairly acidic... if you've got an acid soil, and are
heavy
with the coffee grounds, you may actually push the pH too low for your
plants.
Moderation in all things, except maybe compost. g

Roses are happiest with a pH of about 6.0 to 6.5.

Kay

Sensei,
I have lost young annual plants (squash) after mulching them with coffee
grounds, but I have a web site that says that coffee grounds aren't
acidic, at least not significantly (6.5 and 6.8).
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080707171641.htm
Caveat:
http://groundtoground.org/tag/coffee-grounds-ph/


Most likely caffeine, which is a germination and growth inhibitor.


This site says that coffee grounds are about 2% nitrogen, but that seems
too low to burn plants.

That's pretty light, especially when it's not in free form.



In any event, don't perennial plants (such as roses) prefer soil on the
(fungal) acidic side, and vegetables (annuals) prefer basic (bacterial)
soils?

Nope.

http://www.garden-planting-tips.com/pH-soil-test.html

Have never heard of referring to soils as "fungal" or "bacterial" either.
But I don't read much of the popular garden literature.

http://www.extension.org/pages/13064...h-modification shows you some of
the effects of pH on soil nutrient "availability".

Kay




That said, wouldn't it be as beneficial to mulch perennials with the
grounds and bananas, and to top with straw to avoid decorative, esthetic
problems?


Thanks for the feed back.

--
E Pluribus Unum

Know where your money is tonight?
It's making the lives of Wall Street Bankers more comfortable.

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

In article
,
Higgs Boson wrote:

On Jul 7, 9:47*am, Billy wrote:
In article ,
*Kay Lancaster wrote:









On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 22:46:45 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson

wrote:
I save coffee grounds from OP (along with my tea leaves) for roses and
other decorative plants. *He says banana peels are also good for
roses.

Trying to save myself misdirected effort, what is NG opinion:

Need to scratch in and water coffee grounds? *Or bury? *Or just leave
on surface?

Toss 'em in the compost heap; add compost whenever you've got some and
it's the growing season.

Coffee grounds are fairly acidic... if you've got an acid soil, and are
heavy
with the coffee grounds, you may actually push the pH too low for your
plants.
Moderation in all things, except maybe compost. g

Roses are happiest with a pH of about 6.0 to 6.5.

Kay

Sensei,
I have lost young annual plants (squash) after mulching them with coffee
grounds, but I have a web site that says that coffee grounds aren't
acidic, at least not significantly (6.5 and 6.8).
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080707171641.htm
Caveat:
http://groundtoground.org/tag/coffee-grounds-ph/

This site says that coffee grounds are about 2% nitrogen, but that seems
too low to burn plants.

In any event, don't perennial plants (such as roses) prefer soil on the
(fungal) acidic side, and vegetables (annuals) prefer basic (bacterial)
soils?

That said, wouldn't it be as beneficial to mulch perennials with the
grounds and bananas, and to top with straw to avoid decorative, esthetic
problems?

--
[...]

Perhaps, but I don't want to bother finding a straw source & dealing
with possible imported seeds.

Would small size ground cover mulch do as well? I buy bags & bags of
it and use along my rose paths as well as other decorative planting
areas to conserve water and discourage weeds (hah!).

HB

Oak leaves would do as well. I like to use alfalfa (lucern to our
anti-podians).

--
E Pluribus Unum

Know where your money is tonight?
It's making the lives of Wall Street Bankers more comfortable.

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

In article ,
Kay Lancaster wrote:

On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 14:31:27 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:
Toss 'em in the compost heap; add compost whenever you've got some and
it's the growing season.

***I confess that when the City started accepting food waste to grind
up with their quarterly compost giveaway, I sold my not-very-good
composter, So sue me!

Composter??? g As fancy as I've ever gotten with compost is four pallets
wired together to make an E -- shovel the pile from one side to another to
turn
it. But as long as the city is willing to give you compost, I'd probably
be happy to take it. Though it's sometimes infested with pesticide residues
that can be pretty devastating. One of my buddies from grad school
was the one who initially spotted herbicide damage from compost given to the
community gardens in Pullman:
http://www.jgpress.com/BCArticles/2001/070125.html

I've also done a lot of in-situ composting over the years... drag your
bootheel
into the soil to make a trench, drop in whatever you've got, and kick a
little
soil over it. Next year, the rows go where the trenches were. Lazy
gardening
at its finest, though you don't want to dispose of diseased or seed-bearing
materials that way.


Coffee grounds are fairly acidic... if you've got an acid soil, and are
heavy
with the coffee grounds, you may actually push the pH too low for your
plants.
Moderation in all things, except maybe compost. g

Roses are happiest with a pH of about 6.0 to 6.5.

Kay

****Our soil here is alkaline -- California adobe. But my garden
soil has been modified over the (many) decades by previous owner and
moi, so I think it might be pretty well balanced. One of these days
I''ll get around to testing it g So I don't think coffee grounds
would create an acidic imbalance.

You've got a huge amount of alkaline reserves in your soil, so you may
be just fine pouring on the coffee grounds. Up here in the land of
no soil calcium to speak of, we'd be in trouble. Particularly if
I started dragging home coffee grounds from the local espresso stands that
are all over the place. g

I'd be interested to know how the native soil pH and your garden soil pH
compare now. It's really difficult to push a soil very far from its
native pH and have it hold at the new pH.

======What I ask is whether I have to scratch in or bury the coffee
grounds (and banana peels) or if it's enuff just to strew at the
outside root zone & water in.

Thoughts?

I think you can do what pleases you. While I don't like the smell of
coffee, I don't find the sight of it or decomposing banana peels
abhorrent. Some people do. That's the only real reason to bury, imho,
unless you're doing something strange like the volcano mulching that was
common around here a few years ago.

The region is semi-arid. I remember patches of alkali between
Westminster, and Seal Beach when I was a child. Yet, alfalfa, and lima
beans were common crops.

--
E Pluribus Unum

Know where your money is tonight?
It's making the lives of Wall Street Bankers more comfortable.

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

On Jul 7, 7:32*pm, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote:

Would small size ground cover mulch do as well? *I buy bags & bags of
it and use along my rose paths as well as other decorative planting
areas to conserve water and discourage weeds (hah!).

Mulch and compost are very different, they're actually opposites,
mulch deters plant growth and compost encourages plant growth. *Most
organic commercial mulch (like shredded barks) will over several years
eventually break down but adds very little by way of nutrients to
soil... and when mixed into the soil will cause all kinds of problems,
mostly because when smothered with soil it won't break down so will
harbor diseases. *One year my neighbor shredded mountains of fallen
leaves and tilled them into his vegetable garden without composting
them first, his garden suffered terribly by an onslought of insects in
all their various stages and all kinds of diseases and molds, not to
mention the burrowing varmits that subsist on the insects and alos
devour the plant roots. *You have a choice, gardening or landfill,
that's it.

Yes, I grok.

I use the mulch to cut down on watering; water is very expensive
here. This is the "land of little rain" -- meaning just that. The
rainy season (in theory) could run from Nov to March, but in practice,
there are few rainy seasons worth a damn. Soil would get dry &
parched if not protected. Mulch also supposed to cut down on weeds
(rueful chuckle).

The compost, whether my former home-made, or now the City's compost,
is used for plant and soil health.

So I don't see how one excludes the other. Compost gets lightly dug
into the soil, and is always used, BTW, in my transplant mix. Mulch
protects the surface, and also has an aesthetic function.