I don't have any studies at hand to back this up, and I'm too lazy to look
for them just now, but I believe that when you start messing around with the
Ph of the dog's urine, you run the risk of problems with their urinary tract
system (more prone to infection, etc.). If you wanted to try this, you
might want to do some research first.

Cheers,
Sue

--

Zone 6, Southcentral PA


"nigsprncs" wrote in message
om...
Tomato juice!! Someone told me to add tomato juice to the dogs food
daily and the acid in the juice would dilute the acid in the dog
urine. At first I thought they were crazy but it did work, the
following spring I started giving both dogs tomato juice daily and no
brown spots. I've been spot free for two years.

I hope this helps, it's also a lot cheaper than the other stuff you
buy.

Heather

I heard that the only thing tomato juice does is makes your dog more thirsty
(from all the salt),so they drink more water, and drinking all that extra
water makes the dogs urine more diluted, in turn causing less harm to the
grass.

To the OP, Search the archives (or post your question on)
rec.pets.dogs.misc
The subject has been hashed over on that group many times.

David, owner of 2 female & 1 male dogs, who cause minimum damage to my lawn
thanks to good healthy soil, annual dressings of compost, aeration, etc.


"SugarChile" wrote in message
...
I don't have any studies at hand to back this up, and I'm too lazy to look
for them just now, but I believe that when you start messing around with
the
Ph of the dog's urine, you run the risk of problems with their urinary
tract
system (more prone to infection, etc.). If you wanted to try this, you
might want to do some research first.

Cheers,
Sue

--

Zone 6, Southcentral PA


"nigsprncs" wrote in message
om...
Tomato juice!! Someone told me to add tomato juice to the dogs food
daily and the acid in the juice would dilute the acid in the dog
urine. At first I thought they were crazy but it did work, the
following spring I started giving both dogs tomato juice daily and no
brown spots. I've been spot free for two years.

I hope this helps, it's also a lot cheaper than the other stuff you
buy.

Heather

David, owner of 2 female & 1 male dogs, who cause minimum damage to my lawn
thanks to good healthy soil, annual dressings of compost, aeration, etc.

I've owned three female dogs (one at a time) over the last 40 years,
and have now owned a male for about six months.

Not one of these dogs ever caused spots on my lawn. They were all
neutered. Is it possible that might have been the reason?

I do have healthy soil--I haven't fertilized or watered my lawn, even
during our Pennsylvania droughts, for at least 20 years. I mow it 3"
high and let the clippings lie.

vince norris

vincent p. norris wrote in message . ..
David, owner of 2 female & 1 male dogs, who cause minimum damage to my lawn
thanks to good healthy soil, annual dressings of compost, aeration, etc.

I've owned three female dogs (one at a time) over the last 40 years,
and have now owned a male for about six months.

Not one of these dogs ever caused spots on my lawn. They were all
neutered. Is it possible that might have been the reason?


No. Any dog urine can burn lawns or shrubs; the presence or absence
of hormones makes no difference.


J. Del Col

tomato juice is acidic. few things will lower the pH of urine. cranberry juice and
meds, but not tomato juice. bacteria raise the pH leading to certain kinds of
bladder stones. Ingrid

"SugarChile" wrote:

I don't have any studies at hand to back this up, and I'm too lazy to look
for them just now, but I believe that when you start messing around with the
Ph of the dog's urine, you run the risk of problems with their urinary tract
system (more prone to infection, etc.). If you wanted to try this, you
might want to do some research first.

Cheers,
Sue



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

There are number of lawn diseases caused by fungus that results in
dispersed circular dead patches through a lawn. If a dog is present or
visiting from the neighbors' yards, dogs get blamed, but they are not the
cause.

Spots of turf death are very rarely ever the cause of dog urine but dogs
get blamed for it. People who owned dogs wouldn't even be able to have
lawns if there was justification for such blame. In theory, extremely
smelly amonia-ridden urine will kill grass. but Healthy animals do not
produce amonia in their urine. Amonia arises as a bacterial waste product.
If a dog has a bladder infection it produces more amonia. A healthy animal
should produce pretty much odorless urine & it will begin to break down
naturally into plant nutrients long before bacteria have a chance to build
up their own disreputable population. And if a lawn is routinely watered,
the urine is too dilute to sustain an unhealthy bacterial population.

A study Dr. A.W. Allard, a Colorado veterinarian, found that pH levels in
dog urine had no effect on lawns. For urine burns to occur required poor
over all lawn care to secure susceptibility, to prolong exposure from lack
of normal watering, & for the grass type to be uniquely susceptible even
under such poor conditions. Tests with CONCENTRATED dog urine found that
Fescue & Ryegrass made good use of it as a fertilizer, but bermuda grass &
kentucky bluegrass if exposed to CONCENTRATED dog urine would be
nitrogen-burned. Non-concentrated dog urine did not have this harmful
effect; Dr. Allard's study showed that dog urine in normal concentration
did not harm even sensitive grasses. But the insinuation if not the proof
in this study is that if a dog peed repeatedly in the same place over a
period of time, then the type of injury typically blamed on dog urine
might occur on especially sensitive grasses; this would be the exception,
not the rule, as the Allard study could only obtain the effect using the
urine in concentrations.

OVER cared for lawns may actually be stressed and unhealthy, setting up
turf for another exception: Occasinally the nitrogen content in dog urine
was able to burn a lawn that is already at risk due to excessive
applications of commercial fertilizers excessively high in nitrogen
content. (Dehydrated crystaline urea is almost half nitrogen & is a major
ingredient in commercial fertilizers of all sorts; to load that onto the
lawn, then have the dog load on some more fresh from the fountain so to
speak, is definitely overdoing it.) Healthy lawns are encouraged to
produce their own nitrogen assisted by beneficial microbes, but unhealthy
lawns are so chemicalized the microbe population is low, artificially
applied nitrogen application attempts to make up the difference at the
maximum edge of safe application, & for that pitiful lawn one more squire
ot liquid fertilizer (vis, dog urine) might well burn that spot. Rather
than get mad at the dog, the turf keeper should realize he's been doing
something very wrong. A healthier lawn would not only react to the urine
as a mild fertilizing agent not at all harmful, but the microbe population
would break down the nutrients long before harmful bacteria could turn it
to stinky amonia-pee.

The primary chemical component of fresh pee is urea. This is also a
component of blood and milk, & is in the diet of anyone who eats meat or
dairy products, so it is not in general harmful (perverts who drink pee
for thrills are not at any great risk of injuring themselves unless the
****er was sick or the pee left to "go bad"). You could safely drink your
own pee (or your seeing eye dog's pee) to get that last little way across
the desert & not hurt yourself so long as you drank it fresh.

Urea is manufactured by the body from amonia as a way to keep toxic amonia
from building up in the bloodsystem. When expelled from the body,
it begins break back down from bacteria, releasing amonia over time (it
takes two to four days for urea to break down into ammonia & carbon
dioxide if the urea becomes sufficiently concentrated for bacteria to
flourish suddenly). This break-down will not occur if the soil is
completely dry (& the urea dries out), or it is quite cold outside, or if
rainfall or watering is sufficent to dilute the urea so that it does not
invite that particular bacterial breakdown.

During a heatspell urea more quickly volatilizes into amonia, so if a dog
is peeing in the yard when summer weather is in the 90s, it CONCEIVABLY
could cause harm that would not be likely any other time of the year. The
same dog peeing all over the lawn in Autumn is actually aiding the lawn's
healthy growth, but peeing in one spot in hot weather on the more
sensitive bermuda grass that has already been over-fertilized, damage is
possible. In all ordinary conditions, though, some other cause for dead
spots in the turf will have to be considered.

The waste product of urea decay last only a few hours then have
evaporated, though traces of ammonia salts might still build up over time
if the same darned spot is peed on repeatedly. So the problem generally
has to be ongoing to have any effect, i.e., continuous use of the same
spot by dogs, continuous temperature conditions, continous failure to
water the area to dilute nitrogen & ammonia concentrations, resulting in
repeated brief exposures to the ammonia component of old urine.

There are probiotic products like "Dogonit" which purport to correct soil
pH by organic means & restore lawns in which salts of various kinds
including amonia salts from urea breakdown, excess nitrogen salts, or
salinity from road & sidewalk salting in winter, are corrected. The
advertising literature seems to pitch to the public's mistaken impression
that dog pee is in & of itself toxic thus the product is required, & that
is a bit of a lie, so I don't know if the products are even legit if they
have to lie about what they're even needed for. Probably they are legit,
but they are miss-describing how they work so as not to have to give a
longer lecture on the benefits vs risks of random urea applications
provided by animals or by Uncle Bubba peeing out the back window every
night. Even if it works I suspect a good dousing of the over-fertilized
spots with a garden hose would be better.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

Not one of these dogs ever caused spots on my lawn. They were all
neutered. Is it possible that might have been the reason?

No. Any dog urine can burn lawns or shrubs; the presence or absence
of hormones makes no difference.

J. Del Col

OK, but nevertheless, my dogs' urine did not. Do you have any idea
why?

(Not for my benefit, but for that of the folks who have the problem.)

vince norris

In article , wrote:

Not one of these dogs ever caused spots on my lawn. They were all
neutered. Is it possible that might have been the reason?

No. Any dog urine can burn lawns or shrubs;

Under healthful ordinary garden conditions, it cannot, as Dr. A.W.
Allard's study has shown. Nitrogen burn could be induced only by
concentrating dog urine before application, & even then it was taken in as
fertilizer by some grasses & was only harmful to grasses that were
sensitive to urea. As for shrubs, as the application of urea from
fertilizers or dogs' bladders does not douse a shrub top to bottom as can
happen to turf, even the slight possibility that you're concentrating the
urine before application to sensitive types of grass is not apt to harm
the shrubs.

But folklore never dies & every dead patch anyone ever sees in their yard
is going to be some madman's excuse to poison the neighbors' completely
innocent dogs.

When brown dead spots appear in lawns, it is almost always a fungus or
pathogen caused it. But people blame dogs because these patches are often
about as big & round as when a dog does it on linoleum (it would not be a
big round puddle on a lawn, but it's what peoples' imaginations envision
even on pourous ground).


J. Del Col

OK, but nevertheless, my dogs' urine did not. Do you have any idea
why?

Your observation is correct Vince, though as J. D. C. notes, it has
nothing to do with hormones; fact is, there's not enough nitrogen in
normal dog urine to burn grass; & even the potentially harmful amonia
release would require unusually filthy disease-ridden conditions to build
up sufficiently to kill lawns.

The "active" ingredient in urine that MIGHT but RARELY in CONCENTRATED
form burn particularly SENSITIVE types of grass is urea. This is also a
primary ingredient in fertilizers. Too much fertilizer can burn plants,
yes, but there's nothing magically extra-burny about urea in dog **** --
quite the opposite, it is so quickly diluted by normal watering it cannot
accumulate.

Dog urine has a POSITIVE fertilizing impact on grasses that are healthy &
which are not already over fertilized. OLD urine that smells especially
bad can also have harmful amonia, but fresh urine does not; & amonia
dissipates so rapidly, conditions for it to accumulate in the garden would
have to be especially unwholesome for more reasons than a dog's presence.

Certainly "Too much nitrogen" can burn plants (not generally causing round
brown patches as do pathogenic problems however). There is not enough
nitrogen in dog urine to burn plants; it either has to be artificially
concentrated to be harmful, or combined with over-fertilizing generally,
sending the amount of nitrogen over the upper limits of safety for the
grass. Even concentrated, most grasses would be unaffected, though
kentucky bluegrass & bermuda grass can be sensitive under these extreme
cases.

-paghat the ratgirl

(Not for my benefit, but for that of the folks who have the problem.)

vince norris

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

(paghat) wrote in message ...
In article , wrote:

Not one of these dogs ever caused spots on my lawn. They were all
neutered. Is it possible that might have been the reason?

No. Any dog urine can burn lawns or shrubs;

Under healthful ordinary garden conditions, it cannot, as Dr. A.W.
Allard's study has shown. Nitrogen burn could be induced only by
concentrating dog urine before application, & even then it was taken in as
fertilizer by some grasses & was only harmful to grasses that were
sensitive to urea. As for shrubs, as the application of urea from
fertilizers or dogs' bladders does not douse a shrub top to bottom as can
happen to turf, even the slight possibility that you're concentrating the
urine before application to sensitive types of grass is not apt to harm
the shrubs.

But folklore never dies & every dead patch anyone ever sees in their yard
is going to be some madman's excuse to poison the neighbors' completely
innocent dogs.


I repeat, any dog urine can burn lawns or shrubs. The notion that
some dog urine is better than other is nonsense. Any urine can
convert to ammonia,
not just bad smelling urine. Dump enough ammonia or other nitrogen in
one spot and it will burn.

My sister raises dogs for field and bench; she knows very well the
consequences of dog urine on lawns. Unlike brainless or
irresponsible dog owners, she doesn't let her mutts ruin other folks'
property.



J. Del Col

(paghat) wrote in
news
In article ,
wrote:

Not one of these dogs ever caused spots on my lawn. They were all
neutered. Is it possible that might have been the reason?

No. Any dog urine can burn lawns or shrubs;

Under healthful ordinary garden conditions, it cannot, as Dr. A.W.
Allard's study has shown. Nitrogen burn could be induced only by
concentrating dog urine before application, & even then it was taken
in as fertilizer by some grasses & was only harmful to grasses that
were sensitive to urea. As for shrubs, as the application of urea from
fertilizers or dogs' bladders does not douse a shrub top to bottom as
can happen to turf, even the slight possibility that you're
concentrating the urine before application to sensitive types of grass
is not apt to harm the shrubs.

But folklore never dies & every dead patch anyone ever sees in their
yard is going to be some madman's excuse to poison the neighbors'
completely innocent dogs.

When brown dead spots appear in lawns, it is almost always a fungus or
pathogen caused it. But people blame dogs because these patches are
often about as big & round as when a dog does it on linoleum (it would
not be a big round puddle on a lawn, but it's what peoples'
imaginations envision even on pourous ground).


J. Del Col

OK, but nevertheless, my dogs' urine did not. Do you have any idea
why?

Your observation is correct Vince, though as J. D. C. notes, it has
nothing to do with hormones; fact is, there's not enough nitrogen in
normal dog urine to burn grass; & even the potentially harmful amonia
release would require unusually filthy disease-ridden conditions to
build up sufficiently to kill lawns.

The "active" ingredient in urine that MIGHT but RARELY in CONCENTRATED
form burn particularly SENSITIVE types of grass is urea. This is also
a primary ingredient in fertilizers. Too much fertilizer can burn
plants, yes, but there's nothing magically extra-burny about urea in
dog **** -- quite the opposite, it is so quickly diluted by normal
watering it cannot accumulate.

Dog urine has a POSITIVE fertilizing impact on grasses that are
healthy & which are not already over fertilized. OLD urine that smells
especially bad can also have harmful amonia, but fresh urine does not;
& amonia dissipates so rapidly, conditions for it to accumulate in the
garden would have to be especially unwholesome for more reasons than a
dog's presence.

Certainly "Too much nitrogen" can burn plants (not generally causing
round brown patches as do pathogenic problems however). There is not
enough nitrogen in dog urine to burn plants; it either has to be
artificially concentrated to be harmful, or combined with
over-fertilizing generally, sending the amount of nitrogen over the
upper limits of safety for the grass. Even concentrated, most grasses
would be unaffected, though kentucky bluegrass & bermuda grass can be
sensitive under these extreme cases.

-paghat the ratgirl

Isn't it possible that the dog urine indirectly causes the lawn spots?
I mean the nitrogen by itself wouldn't be a problem, but combine it with
a bunch of fungi or pathogens lurking in the soil that go bonsai! with
the introduction of excess nitrogen and you've got yourself I nice little
"fido was here" sign.

- S

the amount of urine and how much rain is diluting the urine will determine if there
is going to be brown spots or not.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.