I'm landscaping a circle in a suburban cul-de-sac.... The circle is
30 feet in diameter, and gets full sun. Surrounded by plenty of
decideous trees such as Sweet Gum and Hickory Locust on adjoining
properties, but the circle stands out in the sun. My thoughts are
to place a smallish tree in the center of the circle....

Location is in Maryland, right between Baltimore and Washington,
D.C.. we are officially in a zone 7a but because of the urban city
heat, the USDA has also described this area as being zone 8.

Kinda crazy weather.... can be 110 degrees in the summer months and
drop down to -20 degrees below zero during the winter. We've just
had 4 years of drought, yet this year, it's rained so much my
backyard turned into a swamp. I planted carmellia's last year,
and the temperature promptly dropped to 20 degrees below zero,
followed by a very wet spring.... about an inch of standing water
on top of the ground. Last year the ground cracked from the heat and
drought. So it needs to be a sturdy tree.

What tree's would be evergreen, grow about 30' high with
a 20' spread, forming a canopy. I was considering a
magnolia.. but am open to suggestions.

Are any of the magnolia family evergreen and somewhat smallish???
Are they quick growers??


Thanking you in advance !!!

Your suggestions and recommendations are greatly appreciated.

Are any of the magnolia family evergreen and somewhat smallish???
Are they quick growers??


The Southern or Bull Bay Magnolia is evergreen and gigantic, though a
little looking around and luck will nab you a smaller variety.

Magnolia grandiflora 'Little Gem' is a dwarf form of the Southern Magnolia
that will reach 20' or so over time. Another dwarf form is 'Teddy Bear', but
I don't have any experience with it. Dirr states that Teddy Bear is 'Dense,
compact, upright-pyramidal form, wavy leaves.' Although it can be
'semi-deciduous' in our Zone depending upon the winter, the Sweetbay
Magnolias have a lot to offer such a space. They are usually multistemmed
and 'shrubby' in growth but you can prune it to tree form pretty easily.
'Moonglow' is a strong pyramidal tree form that won't really need special
pruning.

Less ornamental but still a fine tree is the conifer Cryptomeria japonica.
The leaf texture and rugged bark are magnificent. Variety 'Yoshino' will get
to 30' at maturity.

Dave
Fairfax, VA



Peter wrote in message ...

I'm landscaping a circle in a suburban cul-de-sac.... The circle is
30 feet in diameter, and gets full sun. Surrounded by plenty of
decideous trees such as Sweet Gum and Hickory Locust on adjoining
properties, but the circle stands out in the sun. My thoughts are
to place a smallish tree in the center of the circle....

Location is in Maryland, right between Baltimore and Washington,
D.C.. we are officially in a zone 7a but because of the urban city
heat, the USDA has also described this area as being zone 8.

Kinda crazy weather.... can be 110 degrees in the summer months and
drop down to -20 degrees below zero during the winter. We've just
had 4 years of drought, yet this year, it's rained so much my
backyard turned into a swamp. I planted carmellia's last year,
and the temperature promptly dropped to 20 degrees below zero,
followed by a very wet spring.... about an inch of standing water
on top of the ground. Last year the ground cracked from the heat and
drought. So it needs to be a sturdy tree.

What tree's would be evergreen, grow about 30' high with
a 20' spread, forming a canopy. I was considering a
magnolia.. but am open to suggestions.

Are any of the magnolia family evergreen and somewhat smallish???
Are they quick growers??


Thanking you in advance !!!

Your suggestions and recommendations are greatly appreciated.

Are any of the magnolia family evergreen and somewhat smallish???
Are they quick growers??


The Southern or Bull Bay Magnolia is evergreen and gigantic, though a
little looking around and luck will nab you a smaller variety.

Magnolia grandiflora 'Little Gem' is a dwarf form of the Southern Magnolia
that will reach 20' or so over time. Another dwarf form is 'Teddy Bear', but
I don't have any experience with it. Dirr states that Teddy Bear is 'Dense,
compact, upright-pyramidal form, wavy leaves.' Although it can be
'semi-deciduous' in our Zone depending upon the winter, the Sweetbay
Magnolias have a lot to offer such a space. They are usually multistemmed
and 'shrubby' in growth but you can prune it to tree form pretty easily.
'Moonglow' is a strong pyramidal tree form that won't really need special
pruning.

Less ornamental but still a fine tree is the conifer Cryptomeria japonica.
The leaf texture and rugged bark are magnificent. Variety 'Yoshino' will get
to 30' at maturity.

Dave
Fairfax, VA



Peter wrote in message ...

I'm landscaping a circle in a suburban cul-de-sac.... The circle is
30 feet in diameter, and gets full sun. Surrounded by plenty of
decideous trees such as Sweet Gum and Hickory Locust on adjoining
properties, but the circle stands out in the sun. My thoughts are
to place a smallish tree in the center of the circle....

Location is in Maryland, right between Baltimore and Washington,
D.C.. we are officially in a zone 7a but because of the urban city
heat, the USDA has also described this area as being zone 8.

Kinda crazy weather.... can be 110 degrees in the summer months and
drop down to -20 degrees below zero during the winter. We've just
had 4 years of drought, yet this year, it's rained so much my
backyard turned into a swamp. I planted carmellia's last year,
and the temperature promptly dropped to 20 degrees below zero,
followed by a very wet spring.... about an inch of standing water
on top of the ground. Last year the ground cracked from the heat and
drought. So it needs to be a sturdy tree.

What tree's would be evergreen, grow about 30' high with
a 20' spread, forming a canopy. I was considering a
magnolia.. but am open to suggestions.

Are any of the magnolia family evergreen and somewhat smallish???
Are they quick growers??


Thanking you in advance !!!

Your suggestions and recommendations are greatly appreciated.

In article , Peter wrote:

What tree's would be evergreen, grow about 30' high with
a 20' spread, forming a canopy. I was considering a
magnolia.. but am open to suggestions.


Oh, yeah, I missed that about a canopy. Are you sure it's a Magnolia
you're looking for? Evergreen Magnolias have a pyramidal form like an
enormous holly, they're not a canopy tree in the sense that an oak or
maple would be. Again, if you do get a Magnolia, make sure that it's not
one 100' high with a 50' spread.

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:53:43 -0500, dementia13 wrote:

In article , Peter wrote:

What tree's would be evergreen, grow about 30' high with
a 20' spread, forming a canopy. I was considering a
magnolia.. but am open to suggestions.


Oh, yeah, I missed that about a canopy. Are you sure it's a Magnolia
you're looking for? Evergreen Magnolias have a pyramidal form like an
enormous holly, they're not a canopy tree in the sense that an oak or
maple would be. Again, if you do get a Magnolia, make sure that it's not
one 100' high with a 50' spread.

The canopy would be a nice touch but, what I picture would be a tree
form that provides shade underneath, versus something like a blue
spruce which has a nice shape from top to bottom. Want to use the
tree form to provide a center focus for smaller shrubs and flowers.

I've always been impressed by the magnolia's in Washington, D.C.
and think it would be fun to raise one..(or two...or many ....)

Thanks !!!

In article , Peter wrote:

What tree's would be evergreen, grow about 30' high with
a 20' spread, forming a canopy. I was considering a
magnolia.. but am open to suggestions.


Oh, yeah, I missed that about a canopy. Are you sure it's a Magnolia
you're looking for? Evergreen Magnolias have a pyramidal form like an
enormous holly, they're not a canopy tree in the sense that an oak or
maple would be. Again, if you do get a Magnolia, make sure that it's not
one 100' high with a 50' spread.

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:53:43 -0500, dementia13 wrote:

In article , Peter wrote:

What tree's would be evergreen, grow about 30' high with
a 20' spread, forming a canopy. I was considering a
magnolia.. but am open to suggestions.


Oh, yeah, I missed that about a canopy. Are you sure it's a Magnolia
you're looking for? Evergreen Magnolias have a pyramidal form like an
enormous holly, they're not a canopy tree in the sense that an oak or
maple would be. Again, if you do get a Magnolia, make sure that it's not
one 100' high with a 50' spread.

The canopy would be a nice touch but, what I picture would be a tree
form that provides shade underneath, versus something like a blue
spruce which has a nice shape from top to bottom. Want to use the
tree form to provide a center focus for smaller shrubs and flowers.

I've always been impressed by the magnolia's in Washington, D.C.
and think it would be fun to raise one..(or two...or many ....)

Thanks !!!

I love evergreen magnolias too, after a 12 year stint in north Florida - so
much so that I'm raising a relatively hardy cultivar (Edith Bogue) in the
far north clime of the inland Northwest. However, the normal growth pattern
of the large forms of magnolia have the lowest branches sweeping down to the
ground, and a relatively rounded top. The lower branches CAN be pruned off,
but I'm not sure that the effect can always be guaranteed to be graceful.
The smaller forms are almost all pyramidal in shape, and while the flowers
are prettily displayed on them, I don't think they have the majesty or the
grace of the taller varieties.
Peter wrote in message ...
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 22:53:43 -0500, dementia13 wrote:

In article , Peter wrote:

What tree's would be evergreen, grow about 30' high with
a 20' spread, forming a canopy. I was considering a
magnolia.. but am open to suggestions.


Oh, yeah, I missed that about a canopy. Are you sure it's a Magnolia
you're looking for? Evergreen Magnolias have a pyramidal form like an
enormous holly, they're not a canopy tree in the sense that an oak or
maple would be. Again, if you do get a Magnolia, make sure that it's not
one 100' high with a 50' spread.

The canopy would be a nice touch but, what I picture would be a tree
form that provides shade underneath, versus something like a blue
spruce which has a nice shape from top to bottom. Want to use the
tree form to provide a center focus for smaller shrubs and flowers.

I've always been impressed by the magnolia's in Washington, D.C.
and think it would be fun to raise one..(or two...or many ....)

Thanks !!!

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:27:10 -0400, Peter wrote:


Location is in Maryland, right between Baltimore and Washington,
D.C.. we are officially in a zone 7a but because of the urban city
heat, the USDA has also described this area as being zone 8.

Kinda crazy weather.... can be 110 degrees in the summer months and
drop down to -20 degrees below zero during the winter.

I don't think so. What you probably mean is that it gets as low as 20F
in winter; that is, 12 degrees below freezing. USDA zone 8's 'bottom'
temperatures are 10-20F; zone 7's are 0-10F. The all-time record low
temperature for DC is around -5F.

What tree's would be evergreen, grow about 30' high with
a 20' spread, forming a canopy. I was considering a
magnolia.. but am open to suggestions.

Are any of the magnolia family evergreen and somewhat smallish???
Are they quick growers??

A brief Google shows many varieties of Magnolia that might suit your
purposes. Magnolias produce deep shade, so that would influence your
choise of 'underplantings.'

This site has several detailed descriptions, 'though I wouldn't think
it were comprehensive.

http://www.sleepyhollownursery.com/descriptions/mo.htm

Thanks for the info and links....

Your're correct about the temperature.... instead of -20 it was
-10 BELOW zero actual temperature including wind chill factor.
(Columbia is about 20 miles north of D.C.)

That was this past January / February 2003.... I remember getting
a lot of calls warning me about the freeze and spending a few hours
freezing my buns off trying to cover plants that had not been mulched
for the winter. This included a dozen or so newly planted protected
carmellia's hardy to 20 degrees. Darned that night was cold.

Matter of fact, the next few days were also frigid.
The carmellia's didn't survive, pulled them up, put them in
storage and some are beginning to get leaves again.

I did get a chance to look at some magnolia's.... for some strange
reason I thought they were canopied tree's....(wonder where that idea
came from).

Still open to some suggestions about small canopied evergreen tree's.
The plan for the center circle includes two park benchs that we'd
like to shade...
(all we need is a concrete checkers board to complete the image !!)

Thanks again for the help...already found a few magnolia's for the
backyard !!!



On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:24:33 GMT, Frogleg wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:27:10 -0400, Peter wrote:


Location is in Maryland, right between Baltimore and Washington,
D.C.. we are officially in a zone 7a but because of the urban city
heat, the USDA has also described this area as being zone 8.

Kinda crazy weather.... can be 110 degrees in the summer months and
drop down to -20 degrees below zero during the winter.

I don't think so. What you probably mean is that it gets as low as 20F
in winter; that is, 12 degrees below freezing. USDA zone 8's 'bottom'
temperatures are 10-20F; zone 7's are 0-10F. The all-time record low
temperature for DC is around -5F.

What tree's would be evergreen, grow about 30' high with
a 20' spread, forming a canopy. I was considering a
magnolia.. but am open to suggestions.

Are any of the magnolia family evergreen and somewhat smallish???
Are they quick growers??

A brief Google shows many varieties of Magnolia that might suit your
purposes. Magnolias produce deep shade, so that would influence your
choise of 'underplantings.'

This site has several detailed descriptions, 'though I wouldn't think
it were comprehensive.

http://www.sleepyhollownursery.com/descriptions/mo.htm

Although it will eventually exceed your desired dimensions, a Quercus
virginiana (Live Oak) might be nice... a great visual anchor and definetely
an evergreen canopied tree.

Dave

Peter wrote in message ...
Thanks for the info and links....

Your're correct about the temperature.... instead of -20 it was
-10 BELOW zero actual temperature including wind chill factor.
(Columbia is about 20 miles north of D.C.)

That was this past January / February 2003.... I remember getting
a lot of calls warning me about the freeze and spending a few hours
freezing my buns off trying to cover plants that had not been mulched
for the winter. This included a dozen or so newly planted protected
carmellia's hardy to 20 degrees. Darned that night was cold.

Matter of fact, the next few days were also frigid.
The carmellia's didn't survive, pulled them up, put them in
storage and some are beginning to get leaves again.

I did get a chance to look at some magnolia's.... for some strange
reason I thought they were canopied tree's....(wonder where that idea
came from).

Still open to some suggestions about small canopied evergreen tree's.
The plan for the center circle includes two park benchs that we'd
like to shade...
(all we need is a concrete checkers board to complete the image !!)

Thanks again for the help...already found a few magnolia's for the
backyard !!!



On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:24:33 GMT, Frogleg wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:27:10 -0400, Peter wrote:


Location is in Maryland, right between Baltimore and Washington,
D.C.. we are officially in a zone 7a but because of the urban city
heat, the USDA has also described this area as being zone 8.

Kinda crazy weather.... can be 110 degrees in the summer months and
drop down to -20 degrees below zero during the winter.

I don't think so. What you probably mean is that it gets as low as 20F
in winter; that is, 12 degrees below freezing. USDA zone 8's 'bottom'
temperatures are 10-20F; zone 7's are 0-10F. The all-time record low
temperature for DC is around -5F.

What tree's would be evergreen, grow about 30' high with
a 20' spread, forming a canopy. I was considering a
magnolia.. but am open to suggestions.

Are any of the magnolia family evergreen and somewhat smallish???
Are they quick growers??

A brief Google shows many varieties of Magnolia that might suit your
purposes. Magnolias produce deep shade, so that would influence your
choise of 'underplantings.'

This site has several detailed descriptions, 'though I wouldn't think
it were comprehensive.

http://www.sleepyhollownursery.com/descriptions/mo.htm

A good idea.... looks like it would be great for sheltering a
house.... but the size is a little extreme 50' -75' tall with
equal spread. The entire cul-de-sac would be full, not
to mention the root system would probably disrupt the entire
neighborhood water, sewage and electrical system.

By which time I will have moved on to another experience....
as one gets older, the tree's have to learn to grow more quickly.

Do they make these in miniature size ???


On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 15:52:48 GMT, "David J Bockman"
wrote:

Although it will eventually exceed your desired dimensions, a Quercus
virginiana (Live Oak) might be nice... a great visual anchor and definetely
an evergreen canopied tree.

Dave

Peter wrote in message ...
Thanks for the info and links....

Your're correct about the temperature.... instead of -20 it was
-10 BELOW zero actual temperature including wind chill factor.
(Columbia is about 20 miles north of D.C.)

That was this past January / February 2003.... I remember getting
a lot of calls warning me about the freeze and spending a few hours
freezing my buns off trying to cover plants that had not been mulched
for the winter. This included a dozen or so newly planted protected
carmellia's hardy to 20 degrees. Darned that night was cold.

Matter of fact, the next few days were also frigid.
The carmellia's didn't survive, pulled them up, put them in
storage and some are beginning to get leaves again.

I did get a chance to look at some magnolia's.... for some strange
reason I thought they were canopied tree's....(wonder where that idea
came from).

Still open to some suggestions about small canopied evergreen tree's.
The plan for the center circle includes two park benchs that we'd
like to shade...
(all we need is a concrete checkers board to complete the image !!)

Thanks again for the help...already found a few magnolia's for the
backyard !!!



On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:24:33 GMT, Frogleg wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:27:10 -0400, Peter wrote:


Location is in Maryland, right between Baltimore and Washington,
D.C.. we are officially in a zone 7a but because of the urban city
heat, the USDA has also described this area as being zone 8.

Kinda crazy weather.... can be 110 degrees in the summer months and
drop down to -20 degrees below zero during the winter.

I don't think so. What you probably mean is that it gets as low as 20F
in winter; that is, 12 degrees below freezing. USDA zone 8's 'bottom'
temperatures are 10-20F; zone 7's are 0-10F. The all-time record low
temperature for DC is around -5F.

What tree's would be evergreen, grow about 30' high with
a 20' spread, forming a canopy. I was considering a
magnolia.. but am open to suggestions.

Are any of the magnolia family evergreen and somewhat smallish???
Are they quick growers??

A brief Google shows many varieties of Magnolia that might suit your
purposes. Magnolias produce deep shade, so that would influence your
choise of 'underplantings.'

This site has several detailed descriptions, 'though I wouldn't think
it were comprehensive.

http://www.sleepyhollownursery.com/descriptions/mo.htm

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:47:17 -0400, Peter wrote:

Thanks for the info and links....

Your're correct about the temperature.... instead of -20 it was
-10 BELOW zero actual temperature including wind chill factor.
(Columbia is about 20 miles north of D.C.)

That was this past January / February 2003.... I remember getting
a lot of calls warning me about the freeze and spending a few hours
freezing my buns off trying to cover plants that had not been mulched
for the winter. This included a dozen or so newly planted protected
carmellia's hardy to 20 degrees. Darned that night was cold.

Matter of fact, the next few days were also frigid.
The carmellia's didn't survive, pulled them up, put them in
storage and some are beginning to get leaves again.

I did get a chance to look at some magnolia's.... for some strange
reason I thought they were canopied tree's....(wonder where that idea
came from).

Still open to some suggestions about small canopied evergreen tree's.
The plan for the center circle includes two park benchs that we'd
like to shade...
(all we need is a concrete checkers board to complete the image !!)

Thanks again for the help...already found a few magnolia's for the
backyard !!!

You can't imagine how much research I've been doing on
DC/Columbia/Baltimore weather. And even so, failed to read your
inclusion of "wind chill." I *did* find that apparently the all-time
record low *somewhere* in MD was -32 in like 1913 -- NOAA stats aren't
exactly in a neat, comprehensive database.

Sorry about the camellias. My giant bush (N. side of house) suffered
considerably in 2 consecutive hard winters (SE VA -- south of you)
some years ago, but came back and is once more threatening to shade
2nd story windows. Prune, prune, prune.

I'm not good with suggestions for trees. Magnolias seem pretty
fast-growing to me, but then time passes more and more quickly these
days. If you want to provide shade for your benches, it may be a good
choice. My Neighborhood Association has just planted 'decorative'
benches at Bayside overlooks -- no trees. There are about 20 minutes
each spring and fall when such an open location is humanly bearable,
but they *are* awfully pretty. :-)