I'm thinking this could be ideal for growing over a pergola and training
along over the top of an adjacent fence with a gate in it at the side of the
building where some people have gained access to the garden and tried to
break in. The idea is to have a climbing rose along with other security
measures- since I have the pergola I might as well have a climbing rose on
that and train it where it is needed to make it unpleasant for potential
burglars.

MAC is a colour I like for this situation (v pale pink- I don't want anythng
too conspicuous), apparently has the right qualities as it grows high and
wide enough for two to cover the area in question, and it can put up with
less sun than many roses. For this location and purpose it seems ideal.
However it was descibed in a book as not very thorny. Its the thorns that I'm
planting it for! I would be good to know how thorny or un-thorny it is. If it
has half as many thorns as a "fairly thorny" climbing rose, that would
probably still make it a very uncomfortable experience to come apon it
sudddenly in the dark while you're looking for ways of breaking into people's
houses. I don't need it to be *covered* with thorns, just to have them every
so often. It could be fine, I just don't know.

Suggestions for any other climbers would be great if anyone has any. It needs
to be vigourous, grow about 4m high and 3m wide or more, have thorns, not
mind less than 4 hours sun per day, have some scent (the more the better),
preferably be a repeat flowerer and be a quiet colour- ie no reds or oranges;
white, pale pink etc would be fine. Oh and an easy to grow disease-resistant
plant would be handy too!

Any ideas, please let me know.




--
VX (remove alcohol for email)

On 16/12/05 10:37 pm, in article
, "VX"
wrote:

snip
Suggestions for any other climbers would be great if anyone has any. It needs
to be vigourous, grow about 4m high and 3m wide or more, have thorns, not
mind less than 4 hours sun per day, have some scent (the more the better),
preferably be a repeat flowerer and be a quiet colour- ie no reds or oranges;
white, pale pink etc would be fine. Oh and an easy to grow disease-resistant
plant would be handy too!

We grow Mde Isaac Pereire here, on a trellis. It's a bright pink (which
isn't in your job description) and is the most highly scented rose I've ever
encountered, a true knock out. It's not repeat flowering but it is very
thorny. But contacting e.g. David Austin or Peter Beale roses for advice
would be a good idea for you, I think. As to disease resistant, I'm no
rose expert but I understand that Portland roses are supposed to be best for
that and I believe Beale deals with that issue.

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

In article m,
VX wrote:
I'm thinking this could be ideal for growing over a pergola and training
along over the top of an adjacent fence with a gate in it at the side of the
building where some people have gained access to the garden and tried to
break in. The idea is to have a climbing rose along with other security
measures- since I have the pergola I might as well have a climbing rose on
that and train it where it is needed to make it unpleasant for potential
burglars.

Sorry. Forget it. I grow it, precisely because it isn't very thorny.
A nice rose, but not much of a burglar deterrent.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"VX" wrote in message
s.com...
I'm thinking this could be ideal for growing over a pergola and training
along over the top of an adjacent fence with a gate in it at the side of
the
building where some people have gained access to the garden and tried to
break in. The idea is to have a climbing rose along with other security
measures- since I have the pergola I might as well have a climbing rose on
that and train it where it is needed to make it unpleasant for potential
burglars.

MAC is a colour I like for this situation (v pale pink- I don't want
anythng
too conspicuous), apparently has the right qualities as it grows high and
wide enough for two to cover the area in question, and it can put up with
less sun than many roses. For this location and purpose it seems ideal.
However it was descibed in a book as not very thorny. Its the thorns that
I'm
planting it for! I would be good to know how thorny or un-thorny it is. If
it
has half as many thorns as a "fairly thorny" climbing rose, that would
probably still make it a very uncomfortable experience to come apon it
sudddenly in the dark while you're looking for ways of breaking into
people's
houses. I don't need it to be *covered* with thorns, just to have them
every
so often. It could be fine, I just don't know.

Suggestions for any other climbers would be great if anyone has any. It
needs
to be vigourous, grow about 4m high and 3m wide or more, have thorns, not
mind less than 4 hours sun per day, have some scent (the more the better),
preferably be a repeat flowerer and be a quiet colour- ie no reds or
oranges;
white, pale pink etc would be fine. Oh and an easy to grow
disease-resistant
plant would be handy too!

Any ideas, please let me know.


VX (remove alcohol for email)

Try Rosa 'Alberic Barbier' instead, although not at the top of the list
thorns wise its a lot thornier than Madam Alfred Carrier which as Nick has
said is almost completely thornless.
If you can get it 'La Perle' is also a good choice, both these I would
describe as cream white and are of wichuriana rambler descent, if you want a
hint of pink I would go for Adelaide d' Orleans which is a sempervirens type
rambler with flowers like giant cherry blossom. all are easy and trouble
free and nearly evergreen.
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

VX wrote:
MAC is a colour I like for this situation (v pale pink- I don't want anythng
too conspicuous),

MAC for me is white with the odd hint of pink. It is very flexible and
easily trained. It also grows like the clappers. It is not very thorny,
so it terms of vicous personnel deterent you may wish to consider
another rose or something in addition to MAC.

HTH

Sarah

In article ,
Sarah Dale wrote:
VX wrote:
MAC is a colour I like for this situation (v pale pink- I don't want anythng
too conspicuous),

MAC for me is white with the odd hint of pink. It is very flexible and
easily trained. It also grows like the clappers. It is not very thorny,
so it terms of vicous personnel deterent you may wish to consider
another rose or something in addition to MAC.

That is my experience, too.

Actually, I had an idea. Himalayan Giant blackberries have the right
size and properties, so it isn't just roses that could be used. In
fact a combination of them and the above rose would probably work.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"VX" wrote in message
s.com...
I'm thinking this could be ideal for growing over a pergola and training
along over the top of an adjacent fence with a gate in it at the side of
the
building where some people have gained access to the garden and tried to
break in. The idea is to have a climbing rose along with other security
measures- since I have the pergola I might as well have a climbing rose on
that and train it where it is needed to make it unpleasant for potential
burglars.

MAC is a colour I like for this situation (v pale pink- I don't want
anythng
too conspicuous), apparently has the right qualities as it grows high and
wide enough for two to cover the area in question, and it can put up with
less sun than many roses. For this location and purpose it seems ideal.
However it was descibed in a book as not very thorny. Its the thorns that
I'm
planting it for! I would be good to know how thorny or un-thorny it is. If
it
has half as many thorns as a "fairly thorny" climbing rose, that would
probably still make it a very uncomfortable experience to come apon it
sudddenly in the dark while you're looking for ways of breaking into
people's
houses. I don't need it to be *covered* with thorns, just to have them
every
so often. It could be fine, I just don't know.

Suggestions for any other climbers would be great if anyone has any. It
needs
to be vigourous, grow about 4m high and 3m wide or more, have thorns, not
mind less than 4 hours sun per day, have some scent (the more the better),
preferably be a repeat flowerer and be a quiet colour- ie no reds or
oranges;
white, pale pink etc would be fine. Oh and an easy to grow
disease-resistant
plant would be handy too!

Any ideas, please let me know.
I like masquerade. It has big thorns and lots of them. Mine is grown north
facing, it never gets diseases but sadly is all the colours you don't want.
I think you may have to compromise somewhere.
Get a nice pink thornless rose and a rottweiler perhaps?

"VX" wrote in message
s.com...
I'm thinking this could be ideal for growing over a pergola and training
along over the top of an adjacent fence with a gate in it at the side of
the
building where some people have gained access to the garden and tried to
break in. The idea is to have a climbing rose along with other security
measures- since I have the pergola I might as well have a climbing rose on
that and train it where it is needed to make it unpleasant for potential
burglars.

MAC is a colour I like for this situation (v pale pink- I don't want
anythng
too conspicuous), apparently has the right qualities as it grows high and
wide enough for two to cover the area in question, and it can put up with
less sun than many roses. For this location and purpose it seems ideal.
However it was descibed in a book as not very thorny. Its the thorns that
I'm
planting it for! I would be good to know how thorny or un-thorny it is. If
it
has half as many thorns as a "fairly thorny" climbing rose, that would
probably still make it a very uncomfortable experience to come apon it
sudddenly in the dark while you're looking for ways of breaking into
people's
houses. I don't need it to be *covered* with thorns, just to have them
every
so often. It could be fine, I just don't know.

Suggestions for any other climbers would be great if anyone has any. It
needs
to be vigourous, grow about 4m high and 3m wide or more, have thorns, not
mind less than 4 hours sun per day, have some scent (the more the better),
preferably be a repeat flowerer and be a quiet colour- ie no reds or
oranges;
white, pale pink etc would be fine. Oh and an easy to grow
disease-resistant
plant would be handy too!

Any ideas, please let me know.

You have my sympathies. At a previous house I had a similar problems which
were solved by using razor wire through which we grew a variety of climbers.
This link may help a bit
http://www.cleveland.police.uk/crime...den/plants.htm
--
VX (remove alcohol for email)

On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 8:52:20 +0000, Charlie Pridham wrote
(in message ):

Try Rosa 'Alberic Barbier' instead, although not at the top of the list
thorns wise its a lot thornier than Madam Alfred Carrier which as Nick has
said is almost completely thornless.
If you can get it 'La Perle' is also a good choice, both these I would
describe as cream white and are of wichuriana rambler descent, if you want a
hint of pink I would go for Adelaide d' Orleans which is a sempervirens type
rambler with flowers like giant cherry blossom. all are easy and trouble
free and nearly evergreen.


AB looks quite good. Is it a rambler insofar as needing to be cut back to
almost nothing and regrowing each year? There is a problem - the pergola I
have was put in an odd position for privacy purposes- one long side is a mere
18" away from the neighbours fence! Consequently pruning and related
activities will be a bit of an issue with such limited access. Add to that my
partial disability and I have a reason AFAICS to go for a climber rather than
a rambler. At least with a climber I think pruning is limited to trimming and
thinning out or whatever as needed- I don't have to worry about re-threading
the whole thing through the trellis every year, which I beleive I'd be doing
with a rambler. If I'm mistaken about this though, do please tell me!

Looking at what else is available, I think Gloire de Dijon seems like it
could be a good option. I'm assuming it is reasonably thorny, but have seen
no references to that anywhere I've looked. Is anyone familiar with this one?




--
VX (remove alcohol for email)

"VX" wrote in message
s.com...
On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 8:52:20 +0000, Charlie Pridham wrote
(in message ):

Try Rosa 'Alberic Barbier' instead, although not at the top of the list
thorns wise its a lot thornier than Madam Alfred Carrier which as Nick
has
said is almost completely thornless.
If you can get it 'La Perle' is also a good choice, both these I would
describe as cream white and are of wichuriana rambler descent, if you
want a
hint of pink I would go for Adelaide d' Orleans which is a sempervirens
type
rambler with flowers like giant cherry blossom. all are easy and trouble
free and nearly evergreen.


AB looks quite good. Is it a rambler insofar as needing to be cut back to
almost nothing and regrowing each year? There is a problem - the pergola I
have was put in an odd position for privacy purposes- one long side is a
mere
18" away from the neighbours fence! Consequently pruning and related
activities will be a bit of an issue with such limited access. Add to that
my
partial disability and I have a reason AFAICS to go for a climber rather
than
a rambler. At least with a climber I think pruning is limited to trimming
and
thinning out or whatever as needed- I don't have to worry about
re-threading
the whole thing through the trellis every year, which I beleive I'd be
doing
with a rambler. If I'm mistaken about this though, do please tell me!

Looking at what else is available, I think Gloire de Dijon seems like it
could be a good option. I'm assuming it is reasonably thorny, but have
seen
no references to that anywhere I've looked. Is anyone familiar with this
one?

--
VX (remove alcohol for email)

I don't know if I am right to do so but I just remove a couple of the oldest
stems each year by cutting them into short lengths then allowing their new
replacements to grow in. I find the ramblers more flexible and easier to
grow here, Cornwall is not good rose country!
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

VX wrote:
AB looks quite good. Is it a rambler insofar as needing to be cut back to
almost nothing and regrowing each year? There is a problem - the pergola I
have was put in an odd position for privacy purposes- one long side is a mere
18" away from the neighbours fence! Consequently pruning and related
activities will be a bit of an issue with such limited access. Add to that my
partial disability and I have a reason AFAICS to go for a climber rather than
a rambler. At least with a climber I think pruning is limited to trimming and
thinning out or whatever as needed- I don't have to worry about re-threading
the whole thing through the trellis every year, which I beleive I'd be doing
with a rambler. If I'm mistaken about this though, do please tell me!

AKAIK rambler pruning is simply limited to pruning out what you want to
prune out, and the same as pruning a climber. With something like MMe
Alfred Carriere, I used to prune out a couple of the oldest, thickest
stems every year just to reduce the overall mass of rose because it was
outgrowing its alloted space.

Sarah

On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 8:49:02 +0000, Charlie Pridham wrote
(in message ):

I don't know if I am right to do so but I just remove a couple of the oldest
stems each year by cutting them into short lengths then allowing their new
replacements to grow in. I find the ramblers more flexible and easier to
grow here, Cornwall is not good rose country!


I'd really like to understand this- can I ask what it is about ramblers that
seems more flexible (and easier to grow)? If I can get my head round this I
could be on to something (like knowing what I'm doing and even maybe making a
good choice....)

--
VX (remove alcohol for email)

In article m,
VX writes:
| On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 8:49:02 +0000, Charlie Pridham wrote
| (in message ):
|
| I don't know if I am right to do so but I just remove a couple of the oldest
| stems each year by cutting them into short lengths then allowing their new
| replacements to grow in. I find the ramblers more flexible and easier to
| grow here, Cornwall is not good rose country!
|
| I'd really like to understand this- can I ask what it is about ramblers that
| seems more flexible (and easier to grow)? If I can get my head round this I
| could be on to something (like knowing what I'm doing and even maybe making a
| good choice....)

Ramblers are typically very vigorous species and varieties and
so may be easier to grow in marginal conditions. The division
into climbers, ramblers and shrub roses is pretty arbitrary.
None are true climbers - the closest roses come is ones that
grow up through bushes and are prevented from falling back by
their thorns, and many roses will do that if grown in other
shrubs and make a bush if grown in the open.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 13:04:49 +0000, Nick Maclaren wrote
(in message ):

I'd really like to understand this- can I ask what it is about ramblers
that
seems more flexible (and easier to grow)? If I can get my head round this
I
could be on to something (like knowing what I'm doing and even maybe
making a
good choice....)

Ramblers are typically very vigorous species and varieties and
so may be easier to grow in marginal conditions. The division
into climbers, ramblers and shrub roses is pretty arbitrary.
None are true climbers - the closest roses come is ones that
grow up through bushes and are prevented from falling back by
their thorns, and many roses will do that if grown in other
shrubs and make a bush if grown in the open.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Thanks. Ok, I get it now. I was thinking that what I knew some decades ago
when I was doing stuff in my parents garden was still current knowledge! It
isn't. One of my books seems to be saying that we know a lot better nowadays
and cutting ramblers down to nearly nothing could even kill them. So I just
ordered a couple of Alberic Barbier. It sounds very good- I especially like
the references to A.B. having "been seen growing quite happily in unsuitable
conditions".

--
VX (remove alcohol for email)

In article m,
VX writes:
|
| Thanks. Ok, I get it now. I was thinking that what I knew some decades ago
| when I was doing stuff in my parents garden was still current knowledge! It
| isn't. One of my books seems to be saying that we know a lot better nowadays
| and cutting ramblers down to nearly nothing could even kill them. So I just
| ordered a couple of Alberic Barbier. It sounds very good- I especially like
| the references to A.B. having "been seen growing quite happily in unsuitable
| conditions".

There are no absolutes and never were - except this one!

A general rule is that cutting a very young shrub or one with only
very old stems back too hard can kill it. Some shrubs (like Akebia
quinata, many Chaenomeles and definitely Clematis alpina) sucker
readily and their stems are relatively short lived. You can shear
those back to the ground. Most others should be treated more gently
until you see how they respond, and some will never regrow well
from very old wood.

I don't think that many (if any) decorative roses are of the
suckering sort, though some rose rootstocks are :-( Some roses
can be cut back very hard; others aren't so keen.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.