"naziecologist" ??

Who are you supposed to be? The Rush Limbaugh of gardening?

Lady Bird Johnson would have bitch slapped you to the ground!!!!


JanuszB wrote in message
om...
I repeat: people are more destructive and invasive than any plant.

I think you are right. Purple Loosestrife exist on this continent for
200 years and only recently naziecologist ( America for American
plants !!!, native is better and more beautiful !!!) started noticing
its invasivenness and want to spent millions of dollars to eradicate
that "underplant". Comparing how many wetlands were lost through
farming irigation and new housing developments it would be wiser to
spend this money buying land and turning it into nature preserves than
killing plants that live here for two centuries. Nature evolution with
or without help of human will not be stopped and some plants will be
outcompeted and we can only pray that will be replaced by something
that can compete with pollution of air and water. If we must eradicate
some invasive plants let start with grass as killing hundred thousands
of acres of lawns will make our waters less contaminated from excess
chemicals and bees or butterflies will have a lot more colorful weeds
to feed on we can survive with a meadows dandelions, clover and
biological diversity will be improved maybe more than by
eradicating purple loosestrife;-))) Caring for nature do not have to
mean restoring precolonial biological diversity.

Janusz

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 20:48:41 GMT, "Some One"
wrote:

Don't forget that bees were introduced in North America from Europe!
They aren't native either!


"For more than a century, the most popular pollinators among North
American farmers have been domesticated descendants of imported
European honeybees, said Thorp. He estimated that 3,500 to 4,000
species of non-domesticated bees that are native to North America can
also pollinate crops—when they can survive on or near croplands. "

Stick to computers Steve!

I never said they were bad... I was just making a point.

Just because a foreign species is imported, doesn't make it bad.

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 20:48:41 GMT, "Some One"
wrote:

Don't forget that bees were introduced in North America from
Europe!
They aren't native either!


"For more than a century, the most popular pollinators among North
American farmers have been domesticated descendants of imported
European honeybees, said Thorp. He estimated that 3,500 to 4,000
species of non-domesticated bees that are native to North America
can
also pollinate crops-when they can survive on or near croplands. "

Stick to computers Steve!

BTW...

I live in Calgary. You live in Vegas.

I deal with PC's (on the side). You peddle palm trees.

What's with all the personal stuff anyhow?

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 20:48:41 GMT, "Some One"
wrote:

Don't forget that bees were introduced in North America from
Europe!
They aren't native either!


"For more than a century, the most popular pollinators among North
American farmers have been domesticated descendants of imported
European honeybees, said Thorp. He estimated that 3,500 to 4,000
species of non-domesticated bees that are native to North America
can
also pollinate crops-when they can survive on or near croplands. "

Stick to computers Steve!

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:56:36 GMT, "Some One"
wrote:

I never said they were bad... I was just making a point.

Just because a foreign species is imported, doesn't make it bad.

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 20:48:41 GMT, "Some One"
wrote:

Don't forget that bees were introduced in North America from
Europe!
They aren't native either!


"For more than a century, the most popular pollinators among North
American farmers have been domesticated descendants of imported
European honeybees, said Thorp. He estimated that 3,500 to 4,000
species of non-domesticated bees that are native to North America
can
also pollinate crops-when they can survive on or near croplands. "

Stick to computers Steve!

Yo can't even read your own post!

"Don't forget that bees were introduced in North America from
Europe!"

No where did you qualify your inane comment. Is wwwwwwwrong to
dificult a phrase?

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:00:14 GMT, "Some One"
wrote:

BTW...

I live in Calgary. You live in Vegas.

Every summer I'd rather be in Calgary.

I deal with PC's (on the side). You peddle palm trees.

I don't peddle Palm trees I manage large populations in exterior and
interior settings and I deal with PC's on the side as well.
(oh oh common ground?)
BTW they are all AMD and I'll NEVER use Intel....

What's with all the personal stuff anyhow?

You made a stand on a subject you know little if anything about. Some
of us here have LOTS of experience maintaining plants, interior and
exterior, with least toxic approaches.
You might look at alternatives and have healthier plants and with less
lwork. Unless of course you think your collecton looks good.

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:56:36 GMT, "Some One"
wrote:

I never said they were bad... I was just making a point.

Just because a foreign species is imported, doesn't make it bad.

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 20:48:41 GMT, "Some One"

wrote:

Don't forget that bees were introduced in North America from
Europe!
They aren't native either!


"For more than a century, the most popular pollinators among
North
American farmers have been domesticated descendants of imported
European honeybees, said Thorp. He estimated that 3,500 to 4,000
species of non-domesticated bees that are native to North America
can
also pollinate crops-when they can survive on or near croplands.
"

Stick to computers Steve!

Yo can't even read your own post!

"Don't forget that bees were introduced in North America from
Europe!"

No where did you qualify your inane comment. Is wwwwwwwrong to
dificult a phrase?

My point was...

Purple loostrife (sp?) is a foreign species and it's considered bad.
Bees are also foreign and they're considered good.

....give it time, maybe the purple loostrife will be welcomed. Maybe
not.

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:00:14 GMT, "Some One"
wrote:

BTW...

I live in Calgary. You live in Vegas.

Every summer I'd rather be in Calgary.

I'd kill to be in Nevada in the winter... or all year round for that
matter! Green cards aren't the easiest things to get though.

I deal with PC's (on the side). You peddle palm trees.

I don't peddle Palm trees I manage large populations in exterior and
interior settings and I deal with PC's on the side as well.

Well... I didn't dig too far into your website. Just noticed the "Date
Palm Experts" on the first page.

(oh oh common ground?)

Seems like everyone is dabbling in PC's these days. Too bad it's so
hard to actually make a decent living at it. Makes for a good tax
writeoff though. I get enough business from friends to keep up with
the trends.

BTW they are all AMD and I'll NEVER use Intel....

All my machines are AMD as well. I used to say "Never Intel", but
AMD's shifty rating system has me wondering. I'm also not impressed
with the amount of heat pumped out of their processors, considering
they won't put a heat spreader on their cores.

What's with all the personal stuff anyhow?

You made a stand on a subject you know little if anything about.
Some
of us here have LOTS of experience maintaining plants, interior and
exterior, with least toxic approaches.
You might look at alternatives and have healthier plants and with
less
lwork. Unless of course you think your collecton looks good.

You're right... I don't know anything about gardening. Telling me that
I'm doing something wrong isn't helpful. Telling me how to do it right
is helpful. When I have a problem I usually hit Google. I'll also post
to the groups with my questions.

Also, finding CRAPPY chemicals around here is bad enough. Trying to
find something that works AND is organic is worse (excepting homebrew
stuff, of course). Expecting folks to look for stuff they've never
heard of isn't exactly reasonable either.

....anyhow, this has gone on WAY to long, and I don't want to argue. If
you're ever in Calgary, drop a note and I'll buy you a coffee!

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:34:43 GMT, "Some One"
wrote:

...anyhow, this has gone on WAY to long, and I don't want to argue. If
you're ever in Calgary, drop a note and I'll buy you a coffee!

BTW imagine what the pricing of Intel would be without AMD. I too have
been frustrated but continue to support alternatives....

You're right, I'll buy the coffee in Las Vegas!

"JanuszB" wrote in message
om...

snip
If we must eradicate
some invasive plants let start with grass as killing hundred thousands
of acres of lawns will make our waters less contaminated from excess
chemicals and bees or butterflies will have a lot more colorful weeds
to feed on we can survive with a meadows dandelions, clover and
biological diversity will be improved maybe more than by
eradicating purple loosestrife;-))) Caring for nature do not have to
mean restoring precolonial biological diversity.


GREAT POINT! [are lawns "native"????] As I recall, they were also
"introduced" as well.

Mary Ellen

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 10:00:59 -0400, "Mary Ellen & Chris Magoc"
wrote:

"JanuszB" wrote in message
. com...

snip
If we must eradicate
some invasive plants let start with grass as killing hundred thousands
of acres of lawns will make our waters less contaminated from excess
chemicals and bees or butterflies will have a lot more colorful weeds
to feed on we can survive with a meadows dandelions, clover and
biological diversity will be improved maybe more than by
eradicating purple loosestrife;-))) Caring for nature do not have to
mean restoring precolonial biological diversity.


GREAT POINT! [are lawns "native"????] As I recall, they were also
"introduced" as well.

Mary Ellen



I do my level best to minimize the amount of turfgrass area in my
yard. Instead I plant mostly naturalized areas with local plants. The
increase in wildlife, both absolute numbers and diversity of species,
afterwards is astounding. And if the wild violets in my lawn bother
someone, tough noogies. My non native plants for the most part are in
pots or planters, the exceptions being roses which are hardly
invasive.

Dave
Dave Fouchey, WA4EMR
http://photos.yahoo.com/davefouchey
Southeastern Lower Michigan
42° 35' 20'' N,
82° 58' 37'' W
GMT Offset: -5
Time Zone: Eastern

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 10:00:59 -0400, "Mary Ellen & Chris Magoc"
wrote:

"JanuszB" wrote in message
. com...

snip
If we must eradicate
some invasive plants let start with grass as killing hundred thousands
of acres of lawns will make our waters less contaminated from excess
chemicals and bees or butterflies will have a lot more colorful weeds
to feed on we can survive with a meadows dandelions, clover and
biological diversity will be improved maybe more than by
eradicating purple loosestrife;-))) Caring for nature do not have to
mean restoring precolonial biological diversity.


GREAT POINT! [are lawns "native"????] As I recall, they were also
"introduced" as well.

As I understand it (and this may well be myth). grass lawns were first
established in Europe to demonstrate the property owner was wealthy
enough to keep land out of productive agricultural use. Of course,
this is also true of flower gardens and other formal plantings. Lawns
are like neckties for men. No earthly use, but a sign of
respectability. :-) With recent droughts, it has become more
noticable that maintaining lawn grass uses a *lot* of water. While
there may be native grasses of some areas (Bermuda?) that are
low-growing, no maintenance groundcovers, my mental picture of native
'grassy plains' is one with knee-to-armpit high dryish vegetation --
rather unsuitable for suburban landscape. And a fire hazard.

Providing "habitat" for native wildlife is lovely when the wildlife is
birds and butterflies; less so when surburban plantings encourage
snakes (which I happen to like in *small* doses), raccoons, skunks,
squirrels, rabbits, rats, etc., etc.

That is, these issues rarely can be reduced to good/bad, Us vs. Them
absolutes.

.... and the minute somebody isnt pampering the grass it is history. it is not
competitive. It is like worrying about orchids escaping into the wild up here in the
frozen tundra. Ingrid

GREAT POINT! [are lawns "native"????] As I recall, they were also
"introduced" as well.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

But what can you plant that won't get more than 5 or 6 inches tall,
withstands foot traffic, doesn't invade everything around it, and
looks reasonably respectable?

.... especially here in very dry Zone 3a (Calgary, AB, Canada)

wrote in message
...
... and the minute somebody isnt pampering the grass it is history.
it is not
competitive. It is like worrying about orchids escaping into the
wild up here in the
frozen tundra. Ingrid

GREAT POINT! [are lawns "native"????] As I recall, they were
also
"introduced" as well.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

The only native turfgrass, or grass which can be considered native turfgrass is
Buffalo Grass. They have dwarf varieties which never need mowing. If I had a
lot of sun out front, I would strip off the St. Augustine and plant buffalo sod
all over. I have it growing in the back yard prairie garden.


On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 12:44:59 GMT, opined:

... and the minute somebody isnt pampering the grass it is history. it is not
competitive. It is like worrying about orchids escaping into the wild up here in the
frozen tundra. Ingrid

GREAT POINT! [are lawns "native"????] As I recall, they were also
"introduced" as well.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.