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#31
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Lawn; Thinking of starting from scratch
paghat wrote: In article , Pam wrote: Dave Gower wrote: Some people have balanced informed views on gardening. Others are eco-fanatics who really care nothing about any living creatures, only about their egos and agendas. Balanced, perhaps - informed, not very. The suggestion to use peat moss as an organic fertilizer is indicative of a serious lack of information. The nutrient value of peat moss is nil. As my understanding of the process comes much more from reading gardening literature than by a deeper understanding of molecular science, I could well have some of it wrong. But I'm fairly certain that even an "inert" organic enrichment such as peat, by encouraging the healthful organisms that produce nitrogen, ARE in fact adequate "fertilizers" in organically balanced lawns, because the issue is not how well it functions as a fertilizer, but how well it functions encouraging microorganisms that produce nutrients of varioius kinds, bacterial release of nitrogen, symboitoc fungal release of other plant-accessible nutrients, & so on. I understand the point you are making and I think it is more a matter of semantics rather a difference of opinion. The term "fertilizer" is typically used to refer to an outside source of plant nutrient requirements - other than those found naturally occurring in the soil - and usually one which offers a ready supply of one of the big 3. As I understand your interpretation, peat, while it has virtually no remaining nitrogen content, would qualify as a fertilizer because it certainly makes the environment more hospitable to those organisms which generate nitrogen as a byproduct of their existence and thus provide this necessary plant nutrient. One can reasonably argue that all organic soil amendments can be looked at in this fashion - all offer some, typically very limited nutrient value. Their true value is in their ability to improve soil fertility and tilth by providing organic matter and thus hosting increased populations of soil organisms, increasing pore space and improving drainage. While peat may have no significant nutrient value - less than 1% nitrogen, no phosphorus and minimal potassium - the same can be said of composted hog, cow, poultry or steer manure. Christopher Starbuck was right on in his statement that peat is equally as good as steer manure for soil enrichment, but neither one does much in the way of providing supplemental nutrients, specially the nitrogen which most turf soils lack. Personally, I'd find peat less efficient than composted manure as an organic lawn topdressing because of its difficulty in rewetting once it has dried out, the slowness with which it further decomposes and its tendency to decrease soil pH, something which further defeats the purpose of growing a healthy lawn. Your commentary below I quite admired. -paghat the ratgirl Thank you. pam - gardengal |
#32
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Lawn; Thinking of starting from scratch
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:55:02 -0400, "Dave Gower"
wrote: "Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message .. . Any of you chemical advocates ever do more gardening than your own yard? If you read people's posts with any care you would not make such a fool out of yourself. I Deliberately recommended AGAINST chemical fertilizers (suggesting peat-moss instead) and AGAINST using weed or crabgrass killer on the new lawn next spring (suggesting generous use of grass seed instead). Some people have balanced informed views on gardening. Others are eco-fanatics who really care nothing about any living creatures, only about their egos and agendas. Why not go to a church or temple of your choice and find a real religion? I CAREFULLY READ THE MISINFORMATION IN YOUR POST! "Wouldn't hurt to hit the weeds with Roundup before you rototill. Wait a few hours after you spray before tilling." Advice totally contrary to the labeled use! Eco fanatic means not using poisons and advising people who do to carefully follow the labeled instruction? WTF planet are you on man! Balanced views about poisoning the soil for our grandchildren. Did you read what yor Canadian wheat board had to say about Roundup? Yes I have an agenda, sustainable gardens and nutritious food. |
#33
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Lawn; Thinking of starting from scratch
On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 11:12:11 -0400, "Dave Gower"
wrote: Read the instructions on the bottles. It explains it all. You should read the instructions on the whiskey bottle, it's addling your brain... chemical peddling idjit! http://www.monsanto.com/monsanto/us_...orig/label.pdf ANNUAL WEEDS • Apply to actively growing grass and broadleaf weeds. • Allow at least 3 days after treatment before tillage. PERENNIAL WEEDS Apply this product as follows to control or destroy most perennial weeds: NOTE: If weeds have been mowed or tilled, do not treat until plants have resumed active growth and have reached the recommended stages. Repeat treatments may be necessary to control weeds regenerating from underground parts or seed. Repeat treatments must be made prior to crop emergence. The addition of 1 to 2 percent dry ammonium sulfate by weight or 8.5 Canarygrass, reed / Timothy / Wheatgrass, western—Apply 2 to 3 quarts of this product per acre. For best results, apply to actively growing plants when most have reached the boot-to-head stage of growth. Allow 7 OR MORE DAYS after application before tillage. Bindweed, field—For control, apply 4 to 5 quarts of this product per acre west of the Mississippi River and 3 to 4 quarts east of the Mississippi River. Apply when the weeds are actively growing and are at or beyond full bloom. Do not treat when weed is under drought stress as good soil moisture is necessary for active growth. For best results, apply in late summer or fall. Fall treatments must be applied before a killing frost. Allow 7 or more days after application before tillage. Bermudagrass, water (knotgrass)—Apply 1.5 quarts of this product plus 0.5 to 1 percent nonionic surfactant by total spray volume in 5 to 10 gallons of water per acre. Apply when water bermudagrass is actively growing and 12 to 18 inches in length. Allow 7 or more days before tilling, flushing or flooding the field. Fall applications only—Apply 1 quart of this product plus 0.5 to 1 percent nonionic surfactant by total spray volume in 5 to 10 gallons of water per acre. Fallow fields should be tilled prior to application. Apply prior to frost on water bermudagrass that is actively growing and 12 to 18 inches in length. Allow 7 or more days before tillage. |
#34
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Lawn; Thinking of starting from scratch
On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 00:17:02 GMT, Pam wrote:
Your commentary below I quite admired. -paghat the ratgirl Thank you. pam - gardengal OK group hug.... :) (or would we be accused of being religious zealot greenies?) |
#35
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Lawn; Thinking of starting from scratch
Tom Jaszewski wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 00:17:02 GMT, Pam wrote: Your commentary below I quite admired. -paghat the ratgirl Thank you. pam - gardengal OK group hug.... :) (or would we be accused of being religious zealot greenies?) Get that tree out of the middle. -- GO #40 |
#36
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Lawn; Thinking of starting from scratch
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#37
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Lawn; Thinking of starting from scratch
"Dave Gower" wrote in message ...
"Bishop Don Magic Juan" insertnamehere.co.uk wrote ...Must wait at least seven days for Roundup to do its work. Tilling a few hours after application competely nullifies the purpose of Roundup. No. If that were the case then Roundup would be rendered ineffective if it rained or there was a heavy dew any time within a week after application. Any type of herbicide (selective or universal) requires a few hours to soak in. It then takes a week for the plant to die. This will happen whether the soil is turned over or not (except of course that turning the soil over increases the damage). Read the instructions on the bottles. It explains it all. It's true that Roundup works by absorption. However, if the soil is tilled within a few hours, the roundup will not be distributed throughout the plant. Tilling will chop off the sprayed parts of some of the weeds, leaving the lower part and root system unaffected. Waiting until the weeds are dead is the correct strategy. BTW, what is the big hurry anyway. Some of your other advice is wrong too, like telling him not to use crabgrass killer or weed killer next spring. That is just plain wrong. A lawn that is planted now should have pre-emergent crab grass preventer applied next spring and also spot weed control as needed. Neither of these products is harmful at that point and it's completely consistent with the label directions. Do you even know the difference between crabgrass killer and pre-emergent products? Failure to control crabgrass or weeds next spring is a prescription for disaster. |
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