GardenBanter.co.uk - pee in the pile

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Even though this is the dumbest thread I've ever read in here I still have
to
ask this question...

Amazing some of the tangents we get off on here on rec.gardens, isn't it?
:)

If you pee on your compost pile on a regular basis won't the salt content
of
your urine inhibit the growth the the benificial bacterias?

Urine has been used for hundreds of years in this and other capacities. The
key is moderation -- if one urinates on the compost pile several times a day
repeatedly for several days then it will destroy the pile eventually. The
idea is to help get things rolling in the pile -- just as easily
accomplished by sprinkling some bloodmeal over your pile after adding a
substantial amount of material.

James

"JNJ" wrote in message ...
Semantics aside, we're saying the same thing -- this aspect of the
thread
is purely idiotic.

Not it's not, if you are healthy your OWN pee is NOT TOXIC IN ANY
WAY,SHAPE
OR FORM.

YOUR OWN.

A) The statement you quote above is in reference to the sidebar thread
suggesting that HIV can be transmitted via urinating into a compost pile.
That is pure foolishness -- the virus is not transmitted via the urine.

B) If you are healthy then it is still likely that there is a measure of
toxicity in the urine. Stating otherwise is simply not true, no matter how
much you wish it to be so.

C) As noted previously in this thread and elsewhere, the likelihood that the
contents of the urine that are not urea will have negative effects are
likely nil.

I still say the same as before though -- why bother? Compost piles do not
need urine; the only benefit is from nitrogen which is just as easily added
by simply throwing some bloodmeal on the pile.

James

I have to wonder how you all cope with manure, which contains lots and
lots of pee. Also, I have found predator urine to be the only
effective vole repellent in my garden. Would I be better off with vole
manure on my cabbages instead? Are voles so much healthier than me, or
the coyote that provides those expensive little urine bottles, or the
horses that provide me with manure?

I have to wonder how you all cope with manure, which contains lots and
lots of pee. Also, I have found predator urine to be the only
effective vole repellent in my garden. Would I be better off with vole
manure on my cabbages instead? Are voles so much healthier than me, or
the coyote that provides those expensive little urine bottles, or the
horses that provide me with manure?

In all likelihood, probably. When you start going into farm animals though
you once again start getting more and more chemicals though. Something else
worthy of noting here -- for folks that use chemicals in their garden this
whole discussion is really unimportant. In the end, the toxic aspects of
urine are unlikely to be of much concern.

Bear in mind though -- raw excreta (feces or urine) have their own
challenges in usability in the garden. But hey -- it's all good! :)

James

"JNJ" wrote in message ...
I have to wonder how you all cope with manure, which contains lots and
lots of pee. Also, I have found predator urine to be the only
effective vole repellent in my garden. Would I be better off with vole
manure on my cabbages instead? Are voles so much healthier than me, or
the coyote that provides those expensive little urine bottles, or the
horses that provide me with manure?

In all likelihood, probably. When you start going into farm animals though
you once again start getting more and more chemicals though. Something else
worthy of noting here -- for folks that use chemicals in their garden this
whole discussion is really unimportant. In the end, the toxic aspects of
urine are unlikely to be of much concern.

Yep. we all put manure from antibiotic-loaded farm animals. Nothing
happens. We get rodents, who carry deadly viruses, relieving them in
the garden. Birds flying overhead and hitting the lettuce. Nothing
happens. Then one guy pees in the garden, the anal retentive part of
the group is up in arms.

Yep. we all put manure from antibiotic-loaded farm animals. Nothing
happens. We get rodents, who carry deadly viruses, relieving them in
the garden. Birds flying overhead and hitting the lettuce. Nothing
happens. Then one guy pees in the garden, the anal retentive part of
the group is up in arms.

Shrug It makes for interesting conversation. :)

When my sister and I were little girls (maybe 35 and 40 pounds respectively),
my father would not allow us in the house during the day for part of one
summer, because we were not "fit" to use the toilet inside. He made us urinate
on the compost heap, which was mostly grass clippings. We had to go around in
a sequence. Our older sister was threatened with this punishment, but as my
father said, she was already too old and weighed too much. After about three
weeks, the grass clippings were spread around some of the tomato plants. We
wouldn't touch these particular tomatoes, not even to throw them.

If I recall correctly, our little brother was being toilet trained at the same
time and the potty was over the compost heap. We had to watch him while he sat
there.

It is my understanding, there was a safety problem with younger children using
the outhouse, with a real possibility that a narrow bottomed child would fall
in.

"JNJ" wrote in :

the garden. Birds flying overhead and hitting the lettuce. Nothing

"The salt and pepper in this salad sure tastes funny."

the question was
" As a kid you are brainwashed into thinking "pee pee nasty", "pee pee bad", it's
total nonsense if you are healthy."

I responded, it is a health hazard for people to defecated, urinate or even spit in
public places. Yes, most of the time the MIDSTREAM urine collected is sterile.
****ing in public is a male thing. Women dont down drop their pants and **** in
public. Some very crude friends of my brothers would brag about the alleys in
different cities in Europe they had take a **** in. It seems to be men want to think
their **** is pure, their shit doesnt stink.
We all like to think we are completely healthy. But all over the world there are
people carrying all kinds of diseases and many of them get on airplanes and fly to
other countries. SARS is a good example of that. It is the diseases we dont know
about that have the greatest potential for harm. And it is the disease that transmit
within a species, like from human to human that are the most potentially pathogenic.

http://www.islamset.com/hip/pork/Khalid_Albar.html here is an example of the
diseases transmitted by pigs. I am too busy to hunt down the list for humans, but it
is similarity long IIRC from my parasitology classes.

VIRAL DISEASES:
1. Influenza type (A)
2.Japanese encephalitis
3. Vesicular stomatitis
4. Foot and mouth disease
5. Swine Vesicular Disease
6. Encephalomyocarditis
7. Ross River Fever
8. Gastroenteritis in children

BACTERIAL DISEASES
1. Brucellosis
2. Salmonellosis
3. Leptospirosis
4. Listeriosis
5. Streptococcal infections
6. Clostridial infections
7. Anthrax (Malignant pustule)
8. Infections caused by Fusiformis necrophorum
9. Erysipeloid
10. Infections caused by Yersinia enterocolitis and Yersinia poeudotuberculosis
11. Tuberculosis
12. Swine dysentery
13. Melioidosis
14. Pasteurollosis
15. Mycoplasmosis

Now we got a problem in Wisconsin with wild deer having "mad cow disease". The route
of transmission of infection is not known. Captive deer were fed prion contaminated
feed, and those captive deer jumped the fence and spread it to the wild deer
population. But resent findings indicated prions are present in urine.
http://www.organicconsumers.org/madcow/early82101.cfm

What it really comes down to ... do you really want to eat that taco or eat the salad
fixings prepared by the guy who went to take a **** and doesnt think he needs to wash
his hands?
Ingrid

Merl Turkin wrote:
As a kid you are brainwashed into thinking
"pee pee nasty", "pee pee bad", it's total nonsense if you are
healthy.

"David Hare-Scott" wrote:
Ingrid you are mistaken. In most people most of the time urine is
sterile.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
you are right, it was only 403,000 people infected.
http://www.waterquality.crc.org.au/hsarch/HS8b.htm
in ice made from the contaminated water and tested using PCR both cattle genotypes
and human genotypes were found indicating both sources of feces contaminated the
drinking water.
Milwaukee got a problem with surface run off and the overflow of sewage into the lake
during torrential downpours in spring.

I agree, feces are worse. what is worse is the feces or urine of ones own species.
because most disease become adapted by selection to rapidly infect particular
species. they become more pathogenic .. this is especially true with viruses.

Simple proximity to human waste is apparently
not directly related to incidents of illness.

... this isnt true.
http://www.lhc.org.uk/members/pubs/factsht/62fact.htm
http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache...=en&ie= UTF-8
http://qsilver.queensu.ca/~mspadmin/...April/Risk.htm
http://www.afscme.org/health/riskyb07.htm
http://www.swpho.org.uk/waste/sewage.htm
just for a start
Ingrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

wrote:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
you are right, it was only 403,000 people infected.

They do not offer any supporting evidence for their guess that so many
people were affected.

The Milwaukee Water Works has two filtration plants: Linwood and Howard.
No problems were found with water from the Linwood plant which accounts
for more than two-thirds of the water production. While the system is
one, huge grid, due to water pressure, and other distribution issues,
there is only a small area where it is likely that the water is a mix of
water from each of the plants. In effect, only one third of the service
delivery area may have had infected water delivered. Essentially this
would have been the southern third of the district.

The southern third of the district did not include the downtown area,
and the employment generators on that side of town do not attract as
many "outsiders" than the employment generators on the unaffected side
of town. For 403,000 people to have been infected, everyone who drank
one drop of water on the south side, as well as some mystery people who
didn't have contact with that water would have needed to be infected.

Having lived in Milwaukee at the time it happened, I can tell you that
this was not the case. I drank water on that side of town during that
period of time, and I was not affected. My job took me to both sides of
town, and I knew a sampling of people who had contact with the water
from Howard, and people who didn't have contact with water from Howard.
Those that didn't have contact with water from Howard were not sick.
(Many of those that didn't get to the south side for anything thought
the whole thing was the imagination of the news media because they did
not even personally know anyone who was sick.) Of the south siders I
knew, about one in three were affected, most to only a minor degree.

Is my method of estimating scientific? No. But the folks guessing
403,000 people based on a telephone survey have reached an improbably
conclusion. They conclude that only one plant was passing infected
water, yet they come up with a number of infected people that exceeds
the probable number of people exposed. Their numbers don't add up.

Milwaukee got a problem with surface run off and the overflow of
sewage into the lake
during torrential downpours in spring.

That's one perspective. But you're not going to find very many
established population centers where there are not combined sanitary and
storm sewers. It was completely normal to build combined sewers well
into the middle of the last century, and few sewer treatment plants have
enough capacity and storage to avoid dumping during periods of peak
rainfall and/or snow melt. However few cities have the outflow from the
sewage treatment plants as close to an intake to the water system as
exists between the Jones Island sewage plant, and the Texas Avenue
intake (that feeds the Howard Ave. filtration plant). Normally this was
not even an issue, but in March of 1993 the circular currents in the
Milwaukee bay prevented a speedy dispersion of the polluted water.
(There also is a question about whether pollutants from other major
population centers on the lake managed to get to Milwaukee, and get
stuck in the currents as well.)

But to bring this back to the subject of urine, they make no conclusions
as to the source of the infection, and urine, be it human or other
animal, was never considered to be a suspected source of the infection.
Cryptosporidiosis is not a risk you take if you pee on your compost
pile. All the readers of this newsgroup could take a trip to Milwaukee
and pee off the end of Texas Ave., and it wouldn't cause a bit of
trouble for people drinking water from the Milwaukee Water Works.

To use the 1993 outbreak of cryptosporidiosis in Milwaukee to justify a
position that peeing on the compost pile is bad makes no sense at all.
Even less sense than an estimate of 403,000 people affected..

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
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http://www.holzemville.com/mall/adobestore.html

Warren wrote:

All the readers of this newsgroup could take a trip to Milwaukee
and pee off the end of Texas Ave., and it wouldn't cause a bit of
trouble for people drinking water from the Milwaukee Water Works.

Road trip!!!!

Best regards, ;-)
Bob