Cereiod,

Graft chimeras are not true somatic hybrids. Graft chimeras retain
characteristics of the individual plants involved. This retention of
characteristics leads to unusual chimeras such as "bizarre" Orange which bears
fruit that is half orange half citron.

--beeky

Cereoid-UR12- wrote:

Not necessarily true, beeky.

"Graft hybrids" are chimeras with combinations of tissue from scion and
stock originated from grafts.

Do a google search and you will find several examples of "graft hybrids".

"Graft hybrids" are named as cultivars.

wrote in message
...
Peter,

Grafting is a method of propagation. Nothing new is produced by
grafting.
In fact, the reason grafting is useful as a method of propagation is that
all
plant parts involved in the graft retain their original characteristics.

-beeky

Peter Jason wrote:

Thank you for the replies. I am searching the US patent office plant
database for new species but most are "cultivars" which are produced by
grafting. In short I am looking for a case where grafting procedures
produce new species without viral interaction. I take it, then, that if
a
cultivar can be cross bred with anything, and then produce Mendalian
breeding charateristics, we have a brand-new species?

wrote in message
...
species in animals means those individuals that can breed and produce
fertile
offspring, but plants means can produce viable seed when pollinated by
another of
same species.
cultivar is an unusual mutation AKA sport. For example, hosta are all
one
species,
but you will see hosta that are blue, hosta that are splashed with
white
or yellow.
these are cultivars and reproduced usually by division. in orchids
this
is even more
important cause the cultivar is registered and cloned to make
thousands of
identical
plants. Ingrid




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

We were not talking exclusively about somatic hybrids.

The topic was cultivars and their origins.
Cultivars can be of many different origins and not all are genetic in
nature.

Try to pay attention and stay on topic.


wrote in message
...
Cereiod,

Graft chimeras are not true somatic hybrids. Graft chimeras retain
characteristics of the individual plants involved. This retention of
characteristics leads to unusual chimeras such as "bizarre" Orange which
bears
fruit that is half orange half citron.

--beeky

Cereoid-UR12- wrote:

Not necessarily true, beeky.

"Graft hybrids" are chimeras with combinations of tissue from scion and
stock originated from grafts.

Do a google search and you will find several examples of "graft
hybrids".

"Graft hybrids" are named as cultivars.

wrote in message
...
Peter,

Grafting is a method of propagation. Nothing new is produced by
grafting.
In fact, the reason grafting is useful as a method of propagation is
that
all
plant parts involved in the graft retain their original
characteristics.

-beeky

Peter Jason wrote:

Thank you for the replies. I am searching the US patent office plant
database for new species but most are "cultivars" which are produced
by
grafting. In short I am looking for a case where grafting
procedures
produce new species without viral interaction. I take it, then,
that if
a
cultivar can be cross bred with anything, and then produce Mendalian
breeding charateristics, we have a brand-new species?

wrote in message
...
species in animals means those individuals that can breed and
produce
fertile
offspring, but plants means can produce viable seed when
pollinated by
another of
same species.
cultivar is an unusual mutation AKA sport. For example, hosta are
all
one
species,
but you will see hosta that are blue, hosta that are splashed with
white
or yellow.
these are cultivars and reproduced usually by division. in
orchids
this
is even more
important cause the cultivar is registered and cloned to make
thousands of
identical
plants. Ingrid




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

An obsolete and incorrect definition in a book by a long dead author does
not carry much weight. As usual, Hermine, you are misinformed and completely
out-of-date.

Cultivars are of horticultural or agricultural importance (not botanical or
taxonomic) because the code governing the naming of cultivars is completely
separate from the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature and the rules
are not the same.

http://www.ishs.org/sci/icraname.htm

http://www.bgbm.org/iapt/nomenclatur...h3Sec6a028.htm


hermine stover wrote in message
...
Liberty Hyde Baily says:
"CULTIVAR: a variety or race that has originated and persisten under
cultivation, not necessarily refereable to a botanical species, and
which is of botanical or taxonomic importance."

the word is made up. CULTI-(vate) VAR (iety)

hermine

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 01:38:16 GMT, hermine stover
wrote:

Liberty Hyde Baily says:
"CULTIVAR: a variety or race that has originated and persisten under
cultivation, not necessarily refereable to a botanical species, and
which is of botanical or taxonomic importance."

the word is made up. CULTI-(vate) VAR (iety)

hermine


WTF Hermine you cry harassment when Steven pokes at you and then you
p[oke back.

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 19:52:57 -0800, Tom Jaszewski
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 01:38:16 GMT, hermine stover
wrote:

Liberty Hyde Baily says:
"CULTIVAR: a variety or race that has originated and persisten under
cultivation, not necessarily refereable to a botanical species, and
which is of botanical or taxonomic importance."

the word is made up. CULTI-(vate) VAR (iety)

hermine


WTF Hermine you cry harassment when Steven pokes at you and then you
p[oke back.
PSALM 140

To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.

DELIVER me, O LORD, from the evil man: preserve me from the violent
man;

2 Which imagine mischiefs in their heart; continually are they
gathered together for war.

3 They have sharpened their tongues like a serpent; adders' poison is
under their lips. Selah.

4 Keep me, O LORD, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from the
violent man; who have purposed to overthrow my goings.

5 The proud have hid a snare for me, and cords; they have spread a net
by the wayside; they have set gins for me. Selah.

6 I said unto the LORD, Thou art my God: hear the voice of my
supplications, O LORD.

7 O GOD the Lord, the strength of my salvation, thou hast covered my
head in the day of battle.

8 Grant not, O LORD, the desires of the wicked: further not his wicked
device; lest they exalt themselves. Selah.

9 As for the head of those that compass me about, let the mischief of
their own lips cover them.

10 Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire;
into deep pits, that they rise not up again.

11 Let not an evil speaker be established in the earth: evil shall
hunt the violent man to overthrow him.

12 I know that the LORD will maintain the cause of the afflicted, and
the right of the poor.

13 Surely the righteous shall give thanks unto thy name: the upright
shall dwell in thy presence.

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 07:44:02 GMT, hermine stover
opined:

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 19:52:57 -0800, Tom Jaszewski
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 01:38:16 GMT, hermine stover
wrote:

Liberty Hyde Baily says:
"CULTIVAR: a variety or race that has originated and persisten under
cultivation, not necessarily refereable to a botanical species, and
which is of botanical or taxonomic importance."

the word is made up. CULTI-(vate) VAR (iety)

hermine


WTF Hermine you cry harassment when Steven pokes at you and then you
p[oke back.
PSALM 140

To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.

DELIVER me, O LORD, from the evil man: preserve me from the violent
man;

2 Which imagine mischiefs in their heart; continually are they
gathered together for war.

3 They have sharpened their tongues like a serpent; adders' poison is
under their lips. Selah.

4 Keep me, O LORD, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from the
violent man; who have purposed to overthrow my goings.

5 The proud have hid a snare for me, and cords; they have spread a net
by the wayside; they have set gins for me. Selah.

6 I said unto the LORD, Thou art my God: hear the voice of my
supplications, O LORD.

7 O GOD the Lord, the strength of my salvation, thou hast covered my
head in the day of battle.

8 Grant not, O LORD, the desires of the wicked: further not his wicked
device; lest they exalt themselves. Selah.

9 As for the head of those that compass me about, let the mischief of
their own lips cover them.

10 Let burning coals fall upon them: let them be cast into the fire;
into deep pits, that they rise not up again.

11 Let not an evil speaker be established in the earth: evil shall
hunt the violent man to overthrow him.

12 I know that the LORD will maintain the cause of the afflicted, and
the right of the poor.

13 Surely the righteous shall give thanks unto thy name: the upright
shall dwell in thy presence.

Or, you could just site Buddha and have right speech. Two words. Who is the
judge of righteousness? Does inherent existence determine the object? Does
inherent existence require an object? Is phenomena a thing, or inherent in and
of itself, through it's intangible existence?

Great now you are going to feign religious fervor!


"hermine stover" wrote in message
...
To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.

DELIVER me, O LORD, from the evil man: preserve me from the violent
man;