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Is this still organic gardening?
If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be considered "organic gardening"? |
Is this still organic gardening?
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:26:11 GMT, "David Bunch" opined:
If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be considered "organic gardening"? No. Why not use a natural form of nitrogen? Synthetic nitrogen is putrid. |
Is this still organic gardening?
Because when the soil needs more than what can be added as organic, you go with
the store bought stuff. Also, a little bit of info, nitrogen is not realy organic at all, it's an eleament that can be found in lots of stuff, from plants to multi-ton beams of Steel. When I tested the Desert soil for my garden, the N level was so low as to be -0, so I've had to use store bought stuff to build it up faster than I could have done any other way. And it's not hurt my Iris & Canna one little bit. -- "In this universe the night was falling,the shadows were lengthening towards an east that would not know another dawn. But elsewhere the stars were still young and the light of morning lingered: and along the path he once had followed, man would one day go again." Arthur C. Clarke, The City & The Stars SIAR www.starlords.org Freelance Writers Shop http://www.freelancewrittersshop.netfirms.com Telescope Buyers FAQ http://home.inreach.com/starlord Ad World http://adworld.netfirms.com "animaux" wrote in message ... On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:26:11 GMT, "David Bunch" opined: If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be considered "organic gardening"? No. Why not use a natural form of nitrogen? Synthetic nitrogen is putrid. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.563 / Virus Database: 355 - Release Date: 1/17/04 |
Is this still organic gardening?
If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be considered "organic gardening"? Don't you kind of answer your own question here? Organic Gardening is, by definition, NOT using chemicals. (Using common vernacular here -- obviously everything in the garden and such has a chemical nature.) If one uses chemical fertilizers then that would pretty much immediately negate the organic aspects. Granted, it might work wonders and all but finding a natural means would be preferred of course. Considering how easily algae takes hold of any body of water, I'd have to wonder why anyone would feel the need to resort to chemicals to encourage its growth. Hmmmm.... James |
Is this still organic gardening?
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:26:11 GMT, "David Bunch"
wrote: If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be considered "organic gardening"? Depends on how you label "organic gardening." Personally, I define it as the ability to rotate polarized light. If you want more algae in the pond, allow more sunlight to it (cut overhanging branches or remove a tree). I have lots of extra algae (and azola, and anacharis) if you want to come get it. ;-) |
Is this still organic gardening?
According to a few websites, even adding 10-10-10 to a compost pile is
"organic gardening", since the fertilizer is not directly added to the plants. I'm looking more for a technical definition rather than a philosophical one. As for algae, sunlight really isnt the limiting factor here. Its phosphorus. Dump phosphorus into any lake, and a huge algae bloom will take place. Thats why its not allowed to be used in detergent anymore. |
Is this still organic gardening?
Yours is a stupid question to begin with and you probably already know that.
Even though everyone has said don't do it, you probably will do whatever the heck you want no matter what anybody says so why do you even bother asking? The technical definition for you is TROLL!!!! Now go and sod off. There obviously is no limiting factor to your stupidity!!! David Bunch wrote in message news:noRQb.118659$nt4.490710@attbi_s51... According to a few websites, even adding 10-10-10 to a compost pile is "organic gardening", since the fertilizer is not directly added to the plants. I'm looking more for a technical definition rather than a philosophical one. As for algae, sunlight really isnt the limiting factor here. Its phosphorus. Dump phosphorus into any lake, and a huge algae bloom will take place. Thats why its not allowed to be used in detergent anymore. |
Is this still organic gardening?
Sir, you are quite insane. And this is a legitimate question. Do you
somehow think algae will become toxic if it suddenly recieves some of the nutrients it needs to grow? I am only looking for a technical definition from which to set my boundries. |
Is this still organic gardening?
"David Bunch" wrote in message news:SWEQb.14741$U%5.95708@attbi_s03... If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be considered "organic gardening"? The organic gardeners may say no, but if you use something like Chilean salt peter, which is a natural product, dug out of the ground, it is OK ;) Frank |
Is this still organic gardening?
Frank Logullo wrote: "David Bunch" wrote in message news:SWEQb.14741$U%5.95708@attbi_s03... If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be considered "organic gardening"? The organic gardeners may say no, but if you use something like Chilean salt peter, which is a natural product, dug out of the ground, it is OK ;) Frank Or straight urea, which is 100% organic. |
Is this still organic gardening?
"Organic" means many things to many people. For instance to a chemist
"organic" means the matter is attached to a carbon molecule. If you were to follow the true definition of an "organic garden" you would only use fertilizers of natural source (ie bloodmeal, bonemeal, manures etc). If you were to use synthetic fertilizers (such as 10-10-10 or 20-20-20) you would not be "organic" gardening. Dave |
Is this still organic gardening?
David Bunch wrote:
If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be considered "organic gardening"? The USDA has regulations on what can and cannot be called organic. However, the regulations apply only to farms which have gross sales over $5000. Since this excludes most gardeners, the word organic means whatever you want it to, no more and no less. As far as the USDA regulations are concerned, your compost with prohibited materials added would not be considered organic. As I recall, in order to be (sold as) organic compost, it has to reach a temperature of 140 F for some specified period of time (which I've forgotten) and has to be turned 5 times in 15 days. What will the algae bloom do to the pond inhabitants? Sounds inconsistent with the idea of organic gardening, which considers more than just the garden. |
Is this still organic gardening?
In the desert, plants are not supposed to be growing unless they are fit for
that condition. Thus, not many lush spots in the desert. When you use synthetic nitrogen, you kill what limited life is left in any soil. Organic forms of nitrogen are indeed organic. I don't get your analysis of it being an "eleament that can be found in lots of stuff..." Most plants are made of nitrogen. Never mind. On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:50:43 -0800, "Starlord" opined: Because when the soil needs more than what can be added as organic, you go with the store bought stuff. Also, a little bit of info, nitrogen is not realy organic at all, it's an eleament that can be found in lots of stuff, from plants to multi-ton beams of Steel. When I tested the Desert soil for my garden, the N level was so low as to be -0, so I've had to use store bought stuff to build it up faster than I could have done any other way. And it's not hurt my Iris & Canna one little bit. |
Is this still organic gardening?
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:36:51 GMT, "David Bunch" opined:
According to a few websites, even adding 10-10-10 to a compost pile is "organic gardening", since the fertilizer is not directly added to the plants. I'm looking more for a technical definition rather than a philosophical one. Point out the website. I gave you a technical answer. You didn't like it. So you come back with your own answer and you already know what you are going to use, so why ask? As for algae, sunlight really isnt the limiting factor here. Its phosphorus. Dump phosphorus into any lake, and a huge algae bloom will take place. Thats why its not allowed to be used in detergent anymore. Whatever you say. |
Is this still organic gardening?
David Bunch wrote:
If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be considered "organic gardening"? The USDA has regulations on what can and cannot be called organic. However, the regulations apply only to farms which have gross sales over $5000. Since this excludes most gardeners, the word organic means whatever you want it to, no more and no less. As far as the USDA regulations are concerned, your compost with prohibited materials added would not be considered organic. As I recall, in order to be (sold as) organic compost, it has to reach a temperature of 140 F for some specified period of time (which I've forgotten) and has to be turned 5 times in 15 days. What will the algae bloom do to the pond inhabitants? Sounds inconsistent with the idea of organic gardening, which considers more than just the garden. |
Is this still organic gardening?
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:39:59 GMT, "David Bunch" opined:
Sir, you are quite insane. And this is a legitimate question. Do you somehow think algae will become toxic if it suddenly recieves some of the nutrients it needs to grow? I am only looking for a technical definition from which to set my boundries. You got that answer. Do whatever you want. |
Is this still organic gardening?
In the desert, plants are not supposed to be growing unless they are fit for
that condition. Thus, not many lush spots in the desert. When you use synthetic nitrogen, you kill what limited life is left in any soil. Organic forms of nitrogen are indeed organic. I don't get your analysis of it being an "eleament that can be found in lots of stuff..." Most plants are made of nitrogen. Never mind. On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:50:43 -0800, "Starlord" opined: Because when the soil needs more than what can be added as organic, you go with the store bought stuff. Also, a little bit of info, nitrogen is not realy organic at all, it's an eleament that can be found in lots of stuff, from plants to multi-ton beams of Steel. When I tested the Desert soil for my garden, the N level was so low as to be -0, so I've had to use store bought stuff to build it up faster than I could have done any other way. And it's not hurt my Iris & Canna one little bit. |
Is this still organic gardening?
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:36:51 GMT, "David Bunch" opined:
According to a few websites, even adding 10-10-10 to a compost pile is "organic gardening", since the fertilizer is not directly added to the plants. I'm looking more for a technical definition rather than a philosophical one. Point out the website. I gave you a technical answer. You didn't like it. So you come back with your own answer and you already know what you are going to use, so why ask? As for algae, sunlight really isnt the limiting factor here. Its phosphorus. Dump phosphorus into any lake, and a huge algae bloom will take place. Thats why its not allowed to be used in detergent anymore. Whatever you say. |
Is this still organic gardening?
David Bunch wrote:
If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be considered "organic gardening"? The USDA has regulations on what can and cannot be called organic. However, the regulations apply only to farms which have gross sales over $5000. Since this excludes most gardeners, the word organic means whatever you want it to, no more and no less. As far as the USDA regulations are concerned, your compost with prohibited materials added would not be considered organic. As I recall, in order to be (sold as) organic compost, it has to reach a temperature of 140 F for some specified period of time (which I've forgotten) and has to be turned 5 times in 15 days. What will the algae bloom do to the pond inhabitants? Sounds inconsistent with the idea of organic gardening, which considers more than just the garden. |
Is this still organic gardening?
In the desert, plants are not supposed to be growing unless they are fit for
that condition. Thus, not many lush spots in the desert. When you use synthetic nitrogen, you kill what limited life is left in any soil. Organic forms of nitrogen are indeed organic. I don't get your analysis of it being an "eleament that can be found in lots of stuff..." Most plants are made of nitrogen. Never mind. On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:50:43 -0800, "Starlord" opined: Because when the soil needs more than what can be added as organic, you go with the store bought stuff. Also, a little bit of info, nitrogen is not realy organic at all, it's an eleament that can be found in lots of stuff, from plants to multi-ton beams of Steel. When I tested the Desert soil for my garden, the N level was so low as to be -0, so I've had to use store bought stuff to build it up faster than I could have done any other way. And it's not hurt my Iris & Canna one little bit. |
Is this still organic gardening?
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:39:59 GMT, "David Bunch" opined:
Sir, you are quite insane. And this is a legitimate question. Do you somehow think algae will become toxic if it suddenly recieves some of the nutrients it needs to grow? I am only looking for a technical definition from which to set my boundries. You got that answer. Do whatever you want. |
Is this still organic gardening?
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:36:51 GMT, "David Bunch" opined:
According to a few websites, even adding 10-10-10 to a compost pile is "organic gardening", since the fertilizer is not directly added to the plants. I'm looking more for a technical definition rather than a philosophical one. Point out the website. I gave you a technical answer. You didn't like it. So you come back with your own answer and you already know what you are going to use, so why ask? As for algae, sunlight really isnt the limiting factor here. Its phosphorus. Dump phosphorus into any lake, and a huge algae bloom will take place. Thats why its not allowed to be used in detergent anymore. Whatever you say. |
Is this still organic gardening?
David Bunch wrote:
If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be considered "organic gardening"? It all depends on who defines the word "organic". See my http://www.rossde.com/garden/garden_organic.html. -- David E. Ross http://www.rossde.com/ I use Mozilla as my Web browser because I want a browser that complies with Web standards. See http://www.mozilla.org/. |
Is this still organic gardening?
"Judith Steinberg" wrote in message ... Frank Logullo wrote: "David Bunch" wrote in message news:SWEQb.14741$U%5.95708@attbi_s03... If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be considered "organic gardening"? The organic gardeners may say no, but if you use something like Chilean salt peter, which is a natural product, dug out of the ground, it is OK ;) Frank Or straight urea, which is 100% organic. Most urea is synthetic. To assure you get organic urea, you should put horseshit in the pond ;) Frank BTW I'm an organic chemist. That does not mean I learned chemistry without pesticides. |
Is this still organic gardening?
"Judith Steinberg" wrote in message ... Frank Logullo wrote: "David Bunch" wrote in message news:SWEQb.14741$U%5.95708@attbi_s03... If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be considered "organic gardening"? The organic gardeners may say no, but if you use something like Chilean salt peter, which is a natural product, dug out of the ground, it is OK ;) Frank Or straight urea, which is 100% organic. Most urea is synthetic. To assure you get organic urea, you should put horseshit in the pond ;) Frank BTW I'm an organic chemist. That does not mean I learned chemistry without pesticides. |
Is this still organic gardening?
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:26:11 +0000, David Bunch wrote:
If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be considered "organic gardening"? Does it really matter? By the time everything's been composted, you are talking molecules. Why pick nits? |
Is this still organic gardening?
"Judith Steinberg" wrote in message ... Frank Logullo wrote: "David Bunch" wrote in message news:SWEQb.14741$U%5.95708@attbi_s03... If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be considered "organic gardening"? The organic gardeners may say no, but if you use something like Chilean salt peter, which is a natural product, dug out of the ground, it is OK ;) Frank Or straight urea, which is 100% organic. Most urea is synthetic. To assure you get organic urea, you should put horseshit in the pond ;) Frank BTW I'm an organic chemist. That does not mean I learned chemistry without pesticides. |
Is this still organic gardening?
"Frank Logullo" writes:
Most urea is synthetic. To assure you get organic urea, you should put horseshit in the pond ;) does the horse have to have only fed on grain/hay grown organically? ;) -- be safe. flip Verso l'esterno! Verso l'esterno! Deamons di ignoranza. Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+") |
Is this still organic gardening?
David Bunch is most definitely a lunatic troll wasting everyone's time.
His question has been answered many times over but nothing sinks into that thick skull of his. He has gone way beyond beating the subject to death. The subject has been beaten way beyond puree by now. It doesn't matter what you say, whether you agree or disagree with his loony notions, the idiot just wants to bitch and argue over nothing. Screw the troll. Let him **** in his own pool. What he really needs is a girlfriend (or maybe in his case, a boyfriend?) When it comes down to it, I doubt if even a dog would stick around for long listening to that whining jerk baby with his dirty diaper all in a bunch. animaux wrote in message ... On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:39:59 GMT, "David Bunch" opined: Sir, you are quite insane. And this is a legitimate question. Do you somehow think algae will become toxic if it suddenly recieves some of the nutrients it needs to grow? I am only looking for a technical definition from which to set my boundries. You got that answer. Do whatever you want. |
Is this still organic gardening?
"David Bunch" wrote in message news:SWEQb.14741$U%5.95708@attbi_s03... If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be considered "organic gardening"? If that is your intent, why not add an organic (rather than chemical) fertilizer to spur the bloom? Seems to me you'd have to have a pretty large pond with a pretty significant bloom to generate much in the way of compostables.......... |
Is this still organic gardening?
He picks nits because he's a lousy flea ridden stinky crackpot troll that
gets off on talking stupid!!!! None of you should bother taking his crazy proposal seriously in the first place because its obviously all flaming bull shit. How long would it take bunch wad to compost into molecules? Not soon enough? WiGard wrote in message ... On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:26:11 +0000, David Bunch wrote: If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be considered "organic gardening"? Does it really matter? By the time everything's been composted, you are talking molecules. Why pick nits? |
Is this still organic gardening?
Steve, I find most people do this. They ask a question and if they don't like
the answer will go and ask it of ten more people till they find the one they like. I have a lot of experience with people who do this. They are everywhere! V On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:22:30 GMT, "Cereoid-UR12-" opined: David Bunch is most definitely a lunatic troll wasting everyone's time. His question has been answered many times over but nothing sinks into that thick skull of his. He has gone way beyond beating the subject to death. The subject has been beaten way beyond puree by now. It doesn't matter what you say, whether you agree or disagree with his loony notions, the idiot just wants to bitch and argue over nothing. Screw the troll. Let him **** in his own pool. What he really needs is a girlfriend (or maybe in his case, a boyfriend?) When it comes down to it, I doubt if even a dog would stick around for long listening to that whining jerk baby with his dirty diaper all in a bunch. animaux wrote in message .. . On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:39:59 GMT, "David Bunch" opined: Sir, you are quite insane. And this is a legitimate question. Do you somehow think algae will become toxic if it suddenly recieves some of the nutrients it needs to grow? I am only looking for a technical definition from which to set my boundries. You got that answer. Do whatever you want. |
Is this still organic gardening?
Hi Dwight
I believe you are referring to "certified organic". I agree using algae bloom seems to be contrary to the idea of "organic gardening" Dave |
Is this still organic gardening?
"Philip Lewis" wrote in message . edu... "Frank Logullo" writes: Most urea is synthetic. To assure you get organic urea, you should put horseshit in the pond ;) does the horse have to have only fed on grain/hay grown organically? ;) Of course! And, make sure the stable has not sprayed it for flies as toxic pesticide residue remains ;( Frank |
Is this still organic gardening?
I do believe we may even have some of those pathological types running the
country at the present. It truly is time for a change before one of them feels they are justified to drop the bomb!!! Bunch wad, the eco-terrorist wannabe, is small potatoes in comparison. There is no way he can justify rationalizing polluting the environment as organic gardening. He makes as much sense as that senile genius Reagan blaming the hole in the ozone layer on cow farts. animaux wrote in message ... Steve, I find most people do this. They ask a question and if they don't like the answer will go and ask it of ten more people till they find the one they like. I have a lot of experience with people who do this. They are everywhere! V On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 22:22:30 GMT, "Cereoid-UR12-" opined: David Bunch is most definitely a lunatic troll wasting everyone's time. His question has been answered many times over but nothing sinks into that thick skull of his. He has gone way beyond beating the subject to death. The subject has been beaten way beyond puree by now. It doesn't matter what you say, whether you agree or disagree with his loony notions, the idiot just wants to bitch and argue over nothing. Screw the troll. Let him **** in his own pool. What he really needs is a girlfriend (or maybe in his case, a boyfriend?) When it comes down to it, I doubt if even a dog would stick around for long listening to that whining jerk baby with his dirty diaper all in a bunch. animaux wrote in message .. . On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:39:59 GMT, "David Bunch" opined: Sir, you are quite insane. And this is a legitimate question. Do you somehow think algae will become toxic if it suddenly recieves some of the nutrients it needs to grow? I am only looking for a technical definition from which to set my boundries. You got that answer. Do whatever you want. |
Is this still organic gardening?
"Cereoid-UR12-" wrote in message ...
I do believe we may even have some of those pathological types running the country at the present. Sort of on topic...yet very not on topic... There is a rumor that Bush eats only organic? I'm still not sure how to interpert that fact. ~b |
Is this still organic gardening?
|
Is this still organic gardening?
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 23:26:22 GMT, "Cereoid-UR12-"
opined: I do believe we may even have some of those pathological types running the country at the present. Oh you got that right. I'm an ABB type, myself. Shit, I'd vote for Al Sharpton for president before I'd want to see B in there again. It truly is time for a change before one of them feels they are justified to drop the bomb!!! Or look for oil on the moon. Bunch wad, the eco-terrorist wannabe, is small potatoes in comparison. Compared to Rummy, anyone is Bo Peep. There is no way he can justify rationalizing polluting the environment as organic gardening. Oh yes he can! That's the thing. My question is, why ask the question when the person already knows what they're going to do? He makes as much sense as that senile genius Reagan blaming the hole in the ozone layer on cow farts. Yeah, that was a good one. v |
Is this still organic gardening?
|
Is this still organic gardening?
On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 23:26:22 GMT, "Cereoid-UR12-"
opined: I do believe we may even have some of those pathological types running the country at the present. Oh you got that right. I'm an ABB type, myself. Shit, I'd vote for Al Sharpton for president before I'd want to see B in there again. It truly is time for a change before one of them feels they are justified to drop the bomb!!! Or look for oil on the moon. Bunch wad, the eco-terrorist wannabe, is small potatoes in comparison. Compared to Rummy, anyone is Bo Peep. There is no way he can justify rationalizing polluting the environment as organic gardening. Oh yes he can! That's the thing. My question is, why ask the question when the person already knows what they're going to do? He makes as much sense as that senile genius Reagan blaming the hole in the ozone layer on cow farts. Yeah, that was a good one. v |
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