If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be
considered "organic gardening"?

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:26:11 GMT, "David Bunch" opined:

If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be
considered "organic gardening"?


No. Why not use a natural form of nitrogen? Synthetic nitrogen is putrid.

Because when the soil needs more than what can be added as organic, you go with
the store bought stuff. Also, a little bit of info, nitrogen is not realy
organic at all, it's an eleament that can be found in lots of stuff, from plants
to multi-ton beams of Steel.

When I tested the Desert soil for my garden, the N level was so low as to be -0,
so I've had to use store bought stuff to build it up faster than I could have
done any other way. And it's not hurt my Iris & Canna one little bit.


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"animaux" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:26:11 GMT, "David Bunch" opined:

If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be
considered "organic gardening"?


No. Why not use a natural form of nitrogen? Synthetic nitrogen is putrid.


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If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be
considered "organic gardening"?

Don't you kind of answer your own question here? Organic Gardening is, by
definition, NOT using chemicals. (Using common vernacular here -- obviously
everything in the garden and such has a chemical nature.) If one uses
chemical fertilizers then that would pretty much immediately negate the
organic aspects. Granted, it might work wonders and all but finding a
natural means would be preferred of course.

Considering how easily algae takes hold of any body of water, I'd have to
wonder why anyone would feel the need to resort to chemicals to encourage
its growth. Hmmmm....

James

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:26:11 GMT, "David Bunch"
wrote:

If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be
considered "organic gardening"?



Depends on how you label "organic gardening." Personally, I define
it as the ability to rotate polarized light. If you want more algae
in the pond, allow more sunlight to it (cut overhanging branches or
remove a tree). I have lots of extra algae (and azola, and anacharis)
if you want to come get it.
;-)

According to a few websites, even adding 10-10-10 to a compost pile is
"organic gardening", since the fertilizer is not directly added to the
plants. I'm looking more for a technical definition rather than a
philosophical one.

As for algae, sunlight really isnt the limiting factor here. Its
phosphorus. Dump phosphorus into any lake, and a huge algae bloom will take
place. Thats why its not allowed to be used in detergent anymore.

Yours is a stupid question to begin with and you probably already know that.

Even though everyone has said don't do it, you probably will do whatever the
heck you want no matter what anybody says so why do you even bother asking?

The technical definition for you is TROLL!!!!

Now go and sod off.

There obviously is no limiting factor to your stupidity!!!


David Bunch wrote in message
news:noRQb.118659$nt4.490710@attbi_s51...
According to a few websites, even adding 10-10-10 to a compost pile is
"organic gardening", since the fertilizer is not directly added to the
plants. I'm looking more for a technical definition rather than a
philosophical one.

As for algae, sunlight really isnt the limiting factor here. Its
phosphorus. Dump phosphorus into any lake, and a huge algae bloom will
take
place. Thats why its not allowed to be used in detergent anymore.

Sir, you are quite insane. And this is a legitimate question. Do you
somehow think algae will become toxic if it suddenly recieves some of the
nutrients it needs to grow? I am only looking for a technical definition
from which to set my boundries.

"David Bunch" wrote in message
news:SWEQb.14741$U%5.95708@attbi_s03...
If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be
considered "organic gardening"?

The organic gardeners may say no, but if you use something like Chilean salt
peter, which is a natural product, dug out of the ground, it is OK
Frank

Frank Logullo wrote:
"David Bunch" wrote in message
news:SWEQb.14741$U%5.95708@attbi_s03...

If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be
considered "organic gardening"?


The organic gardeners may say no, but if you use something like Chilean salt
peter, which is a natural product, dug out of the ground, it is OK
Frank


Or straight urea, which is 100% organic.

"Organic" means many things to many people. For instance to a chemist
"organic" means the matter is attached to a carbon molecule.

If you were to follow the true definition of an "organic garden" you
would only use fertilizers of natural source (ie bloodmeal, bonemeal,
manures etc). If you were to use synthetic fertilizers (such as
10-10-10 or 20-20-20) you would not be "organic" gardening.

Dave

David Bunch wrote:

If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be
considered "organic gardening"?



The USDA has regulations on what can and cannot be called organic.
However, the regulations apply only to farms which have gross sales over
$5000. Since this excludes most gardeners, the word organic means
whatever you want it to, no more and no less.

As far as the USDA regulations are concerned, your compost with
prohibited materials added would not be considered organic. As I recall,
in order to be (sold as) organic compost, it has to reach a temperature
of 140 F for some specified period of time (which I've forgotten) and
has to be turned 5 times in 15 days.

What will the algae bloom do to the pond inhabitants? Sounds
inconsistent with the idea of organic gardening, which considers more
than just the garden.

In the desert, plants are not supposed to be growing unless they are fit for
that condition. Thus, not many lush spots in the desert. When you use
synthetic nitrogen, you kill what limited life is left in any soil. Organic
forms of nitrogen are indeed organic. I don't get your analysis of it being an
"eleament that can be found in lots of stuff..." Most plants are made of
nitrogen. Never mind.

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:50:43 -0800, "Starlord" opined:

Because when the soil needs more than what can be added as organic, you go with
the store bought stuff. Also, a little bit of info, nitrogen is not realy
organic at all, it's an eleament that can be found in lots of stuff, from plants
to multi-ton beams of Steel.

When I tested the Desert soil for my garden, the N level was so low as to be -0,
so I've had to use store bought stuff to build it up faster than I could have
done any other way. And it's not hurt my Iris & Canna one little bit.

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 15:36:51 GMT, "David Bunch" opined:

According to a few websites, even adding 10-10-10 to a compost pile is
"organic gardening", since the fertilizer is not directly added to the
plants. I'm looking more for a technical definition rather than a
philosophical one.

Point out the website. I gave you a technical answer. You didn't like it. So
you come back with your own answer and you already know what you are going to
use, so why ask?


As for algae, sunlight really isnt the limiting factor here. Its
phosphorus. Dump phosphorus into any lake, and a huge algae bloom will take
place. Thats why its not allowed to be used in detergent anymore.


Whatever you say.

David Bunch wrote:

If a person were to add chemical fertilizer to a pond to spur an algae
bloom, then to harvest the algae for use as compost, would that still be
considered "organic gardening"?



The USDA has regulations on what can and cannot be called organic.
However, the regulations apply only to farms which have gross sales over
$5000. Since this excludes most gardeners, the word organic means
whatever you want it to, no more and no less.

As far as the USDA regulations are concerned, your compost with
prohibited materials added would not be considered organic. As I recall,
in order to be (sold as) organic compost, it has to reach a temperature
of 140 F for some specified period of time (which I've forgotten) and
has to be turned 5 times in 15 days.

What will the algae bloom do to the pond inhabitants? Sounds
inconsistent with the idea of organic gardening, which considers more
than just the garden.