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Cereus-validus 06-04-2004 08:24 PM

Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
 
Sorry to inform you fella but that's "Veld Lily" now.

I'm not surprised that you still are using the highly offensive racist name
for the plants.

Ignorance is no excuse. Those who still use the offensive name should be
informed not to and why. Its no different than using the "N word", Honkey.

(Honkey is a malaprop term used to denote a "white person". The term is
actually slang for Hungarian or more specifically used to describe a gypsy.
The joke is that gypsies tend to be swarthy and not light skinned at all.
Particularly humorous is that it was said by a "pimp" on the Chappell Show
that the term was made popular by a man named George Jefferson (a character
on a 70's TV show). That's an anachronism about a malaprop!!!)


"David Hill" wrote in message
...
Nice pic Wendy
Here in the UK kaffir lily is the name given to Schizostylis, see
http://www.floralimages.co.uk/pic1b4.htm

It seems as if you also call Clivia miniata kaffir lily in the US,see
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/...25/clivia.html

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk





David Hill 06-04-2004 08:41 PM

Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
 
"...........I'm not surprised that you still are using the highly offensive
racist name for the plants ..........."

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...with the names you use at
times????

Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you
still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct
brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit".
Short people are "Vertically challenged"
People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able."
And it goes on and on



--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk





Judy 06-04-2004 08:44 PM

Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
 


David Hill wrote:
"...........I'm not surprised that you still are using the highly offensive
racist name for the plants ..........."

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...with the names you use at
times????

Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you
still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct
brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit".
Short people are "Vertically challenged"
People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able."
And it goes on and on



And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes


Cereus-validus 06-04-2004 08:45 PM

Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
 
Sorry to inform you fella but that's "Veld Lily" now.

I'm not surprised that you still are using the highly offensive racist name
for the plants.

Ignorance is no excuse. Those who still use the offensive name should be
informed not to and why. Its no different than using the "N word", Honkey.

(Honkey is a malaprop term used to denote a "white person". The term is
actually slang for Hungarian or more specifically used to describe a gypsy.
The joke is that gypsies tend to be swarthy and not light skinned at all.
Particularly humorous is that it was said by a "pimp" on the Chappell Show
that the term was made popular by a man named George Jefferson (a character
on a 70's TV show). That's an anachronism about a malaprop!!!)


"David Hill" wrote in message
...
Nice pic Wendy
Here in the UK kaffir lily is the name given to Schizostylis, see
http://www.floralimages.co.uk/pic1b4.htm

It seems as if you also call Clivia miniata kaffir lily in the US,see
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/...25/clivia.html

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk





theoneflasehaddock 06-04-2004 08:45 PM

Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
 
Judy wrote in message ...
David Hill wrote:
"...........I'm not surprised that you still are using the highly offensive
racist name for the plants ..........."

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...with the names you use at
times????

Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you
still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct
brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit".
Short people are "Vertically challenged"
People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able."
And it goes on and on



And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes


How'd they get that name?

-
theoneflasehaddock

Darren Garrison 06-04-2004 08:48 PM

Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
 
On 3 Apr 2004 22:16:02 -0800, (theoneflasehaddock) wrote:

Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you
still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct
brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit".
Short people are "Vertically challenged"
People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able."
And it goes on and on



And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes


How'd they get that name?


I know this is an attempt at a troll, having cross-posted to all of these unrelated groups, but I'll
post this article I found anyway:

http://www.the-scientist.com/yr1991/...in_911125.html

The Scientist 5[23]:0, Nov. 25, 1991




Opinion

Racist Relics: An Ugly Blight On Our Botanical Nomenclature
By Melvin Hunter

Date: November 25, 1991

Racism is a disease afflicting every level of society. The symptoms are as obvious as a cross
burning or as subtle as a schoolteacher's subconsciously lowered expectations. Its presence casts an
ugly shadow across society--unfortunately, even into our flower gardens and the language that
scientists use to describe their inhabitants.

Sad to say, a number of racially offensive common plant names long ago slipped into the vernacular
of gardening, and some have found their way into horticulture's most important reference books.
Sadder still is the fact that several of these offensive names are still in common use. And most
amazing has been the reluctance of the horticultural establishment to confront the issue and remedy
it with appropriate revision of the offending nomenclature.

A prime example is the term ******head--painfully offensive, yet in use throughout the world as a
common plant name. In Australia, Edward Rotherham informs us in his book Flowers and Plants of New
South Wales and Southern Queensland (Wellington, A.H. and A.W. Reed, 1982), ******head is the common
name for Enneapogon nigricans, a stiff, black-green grass of the shrublands of New South Wales.
According to John Salmon, the author of New Zealand Flowers and Plants (Wellington, A.H. and A.W.
Reed, 1963), ******head reportedly is used as the common name for Carex secta, a swamp grass that
rises out of the water to form a mound. And Nicholas Polunim writes in Arctic to Eastern Siberia:
Circumpolar Arctic Flora (London, Oxford University Press, 1959) that ******head is used in the
Arctic to refer to Eriophorum vaginatur.

The names ******'s-hand cactus and ******finger cactus have been given by Margaret Martin and her
coauthors in the popular Cacti and Their Cultivation (New York, Charles Scribner's Sons, 1971) for
Opuntia clavarioides, a small cactus with bizarre, slender, cylindrical branches. Alfred Graf,
author of the widely used botanical guidebook Exotica (East Rutherford, N.J., Roehrs Co. Inc.,
1980), gives ******-wool as a common name for the New Zealand Wire Vine (Muehlenbeckia complexa),
apparently in reference to the basket plant's twining, wire-like purplish brown stems.

Occasionally one can still hear Brazil nuts (Bertholletia excelsa) referred to as ******-toes.
Meanwhile, horticulturist P.A. Munz's California Flora and California Desert Wildflowers (University
of California Press, Berkeley, 1970) lists ******head cactus as the accepted common name for
Echinocactus polycephalus, a small barrel cactus native to California's southern deserts.

Zambia floridana, a beautiful dwarf native American cycad, has been called a Coontie, a reference to
the tree's long, slender, green leaves. And in Australia, grass trees (Xanthorrhoe minor) are
sometimes referred to as Blackboys, apparently because their palm-like trunks, often burned black by
grass fires, remind some of Australian aborigines.

A religious or an ethnic reference in a compound vernacular name is bound to connote or imply the
existence of an inferior or socially unusual quality. Thus, common names such as Pope's Nose
(Proboscides jussieui), Jew Bush (Pedilanthus tithymaloides), and Jew's Mallow (Kerria japonic) have
derogatory religious and ethnic origins. Jew's Beard (Tacca chantrieri) is a reference to the
tropical plant's whisker-like inflorescence, which to some botanists seems to bear a resemblance to
the beards of Orthodox Jews. Other, more appropriate common names for this plant include the
Bat-flower and Cat's whiskers (with all due respect, of course, to bats and cats).

The name Coolie's Cap, which makes reference to the pill box-like hats worn by 19th-century Chinese
immigrants, is still sometimes used as the common name for Holmskioldia sanguina.

In his book Common Names of South African Plants (Pretoria, Department of Agriculture Technical
Services, 1966), Christo Smith points out the unfortunate frequency of use in compound vernacular
names of the term Hottentot (as in Hottentot's Head for Strangeria eriopus). Smith writes: "Kaffir
is not infrequently used in a derogatory sense to indicate some alleged inferiority..." He then goes
on to list 75 common South African plant names that use the term.

In an article in the Cactus and Succulent Journal (51[5]:238-41, 1979), author Bruce Hargreaves
wrote about Talinum caffrum, a succulent from Africa's Kalahari Desert, noting, "I apologize for
using a racist term;~ `caffer,' or `kaffir,' a term derived from the Arabic for unbeliever, is the
South African equivalent of `******'--but I didn't name this plant."

Hargreaves's dilemma stemmed from caffrum's being the scientific rather than popular botanical name;
that is, in his scientific writings he had no choice other than to use it. However, we certainly do
have a choice in our use of plant names.

How many subtropical gardeners in the United States realize the racially derogatory implications of
referring to Kaffir-lilies (Clivia minata or Schizostylis coccinea), Kaffirboom Coral Trees
(Erythina caffra), or Kaffir plums (Harpephyllum caffra)?

The origin of some derogatory or racist names that remain in the common botanical vernacular without
malicious intent--or so one prefers to think--are so obscure that they are used by people who would
never dream of using such obviously offensive common names like ******finger cactus or Coolie's Cap.

The widespread use of Digger pine for Pinus sabiniana is a good example. The tree grows on dry,
rocky slopes, below 4,500 feet, on hills bordering California's Central Valley and interior coastal
ranges. Sunset Books' widely used New Western Garden Book (Menlo Park, Calif., 1980) designates this
tree as a "marker plant"--a plant delineating an important Western climatic gardening zone.
(Sunset's Zone 7, "California's Digger Pine Belt," is a several-thousand-square-mile area with hot
summers and mild, but pronounced winters.)

When the gold-seeking Forty-Niners poured into California during the last century, they had little
respect for the native people they encountered. Secure in their belief of racial and religious
superiority, they mockingly called the Native Americans of the area "diggers" when they saw them
foraging for roots and bulbs. Pinus sabiniana's common name originated when the prospectors noted
the tree's value to California Indians.

Understandably, many Native Americans find the term digger offensive. A spokesman, who requests
anonymity, for the California State Native American Heritage Commission says, "The word `digger' is
very derogatory and insulting to California Indian people." A historical interpreter, who also
requests anonymity, for the California State Indian Museum in Sacramento agrees: "To call a
California Indian a `digger' means you are either ignorant or you are purposely trying to insult
him. It is a very derisive word." These observers concur in the opinion that the term digger is as
offensive to California's Native Americans as the term ****** is to African Americans.

Of course, terms like ******head and Digger pine should have been purged from botanical literature
long ago. However, botanical books and magazines containing these offensive common plant names are
currently widely available.

Surprisingly, there is a great reticence among botanical scientists to challenge the existence of
these racist relics in the garden. Before The Scientist agreed to publish this article, the idea had
been rejected by a half-dozen regional and national horticultural and garden magazines. The editor
of one scholarly West Coast journal, which represents a number of influential horticulture
societies, rejected the idea by responding, "I feel it would stress the sociological implications at
the expense of the botanical. Into an article [on plants] the origin and implication of the
vernacular name might fit with a sentence or two." A prominent California horticultural society also
shied away from a discussion of racially derogatory common plant names. The editor of the society's
journal commented: "The subject is inappropriate and appears to create a quarrel where there isn't
one at present . . . your charge of racism is a little dramatic, I feel."

On the bright side, some editors have taken an active role in eliminating racially offensive
cololoquial names for plants. James C. Hickman, editor of The Jepson Manual--a botanical reference
work soon to be published by the University of California Press--reports that, in the manual,
"Echinocactus will be called `clustered barrel cactus,' a simply descriptive name. Pinus sabiniana
will be called `gray pine' or `foothill pine.' " However, Hickman notes, "Because it is so widely
and innocently known as `digger pine,' we included a note asking people not to use that name because
of its pejorative origin. I think this is better than not mentioning the issue at all." Hickman
adds, "The other name I know of that will not be used is `wandering Jew,' for Tradescantia
fluminensis; it will be called spiderwort--which is possibly derogatory toward arachnids."

Additionally, Hickman notes, "The dilemma, of course, is that truly colloquial or truly common names
cannot be controlled, but are a matter of usage. I believe our challenge as authors and editors is a
long-term one of swaying usage toward less offense without leaving innocents high and dry."

Those who continue to use racially offensive plant names should be challenged. Elizabeth Knoll,
sponsoring editor for science and the history of science at the University of California Press,
says, "I will make it a point of telling the authors and the advisory board members--if they don't
have the sense to realize it already--that racist and derogatory terms are unacceptable." However,
she expresses her concern that "the very nomenclature of some sciences carry racial prejudices. My
guess is that other scholars could point out more examples--a depressing and important undertaking."

The problem of purging racist common names from gardening's vernacular is relatively simple compared
to the much more complex problem of expunging racially based scientific names, such as Erythina
caffra, Harpephyllum caffra, and Talinum caffrum.

The issue of derogatory proper botanical names is more troublesome. If scientists persist in using
them, and insist on their being published verbatim, writers and editors of botanical journals
should, at a minimum, footnote their own objections when clarity or expedience dictates the use of a
proper plant name that has been derived from a racially offensive term.

The use of a racial epithet as an accepted, published botanical common name perpetuates and
legitimizes bigotry, even if it does so unintentionally. Botanical editors, botanists, and gardeners
should know common names such as Kaffir-lily, Digger pine, and ******head cactus are racial slurs,
and they must play a forceful role in eliminating their use. To do less would leave the appearance
of condoning bigotry in botany.

The enlightened efforts of Knoll, Hickman, and others like them are laudable. Without their efforts,
young African American or Native American scholars, perhaps just developing an interest in botany,
will understandably be discouraged and disillusioned to find racist terms in botanical literature.

One can only imagine the damage that already has been done in this regard.

Melvin Hunter is an Atascadero, Calif.-based science writer specializing in botanical subjects.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Scientist 5[23]:0, Nov. 25, 1991


© Copyright 1991, The Scientist, Inc. All rights reserved.
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David Hill 06-04-2004 08:48 PM

Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
 
"...........I'm not surprised that you still are using the highly offensive
racist name for the plants ..........."

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...with the names you use at
times????

Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you
still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct
brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit".
Short people are "Vertically challenged"
People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able."
And it goes on and on



--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk





Delta Nine 06-04-2004 08:48 PM

Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
 
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Darren Garrison wrote:

On 3 Apr 2004 22:16:02 -0800,
(theoneflasehaddock) wrote:


Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you
still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct
brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit".
Short people are "Vertically challenged"
People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able."
And it goes on and on


The funny part is, most people who are part of the PC-protected groups have
no interest in their PC names. Most black people I know want to be called
black, not "African American" as that implies that they're not American
born. Most deaf people I know are deaf, not hearing impared (hearing
impaired implies difficulty hearing, not total lack of hearing ie deafness)
The African American one brings to mind the white South African born kid
who got in trouble for applying for some sort of "outstanding African
American student" award because he wasn't black. Even though he had better
claim to the title "African American" than any American born black kid. I
mean, shit, he was ****ing *born in Africa*

Political correctness was just as much of an attack on free speech as the
people who believe that saying bad things about Bush is tantamount to
treason. More so, actually, it's been building up for a longer time and
has had much more sway than the recent war on terror trend.

Remember the financial advisor in DC who had to resign for using the word
"niggardly" just because it sounds similar to "******" Nevermind the fact
that niggardly shares no origins with ******, and has a perfectly
acceptable use given the context. It means "stingy" or "miserly" and is
completely acceptable to use when talking about finances.

See, that's what political correctness is about: It doesn't matter if
you're right or not, it only matters if people are offended. Well guess
what? There's nothing in our laws that imply you have a right not to be
offended. In fact, with freedom of speech you're pretty much guaranteed to
be offended at some point in your life. People just need to get a thicker
skin about it, and not try to coerce others into not offending them.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: People are stupid.


And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes


How'd they get that name?



I know this is an attempt at a troll, having cross-posted to all of these unrelated groups, but I'll
post this article I found anyway:

http://www.the-scientist.com/yr1991/...in_911125.html

The Scientist 5[23]:0, Nov. 25, 1991

snip

--
--------------
Peace,
Delta Nine


Life is very difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier.
-Buddha

I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine.
- T.D. Shadow


Cereus-validus 06-04-2004 08:48 PM

Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
 
Xref: kermit rec.gardens:270484 soc.men:912126 alt.religion.wicca:725937 alt.drugs.pot:384370 alt.law-enforcement:682378

Ah yes, but it is the uneducated great unwashed that are the ones that are
quickly offended because they believe everyone is making fun of them anyway
and they will quickly riot if they believe they are being insulted.

They are the type of people who will drag Americans through the streets
without a second thought.

All through history it has been the great unwashed that have repeatedly
toppled great civilizations and set mankind back thousands of years by doing
so.


"Delta Nine" wrote in message
...
Darren Garrison wrote:

On 3 Apr 2004 22:16:02 -0800,

(theoneflasehaddock) wrote:


Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that

you
still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically

correct
brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit".
Short people are "Vertically challenged"
People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able."
And it goes on and on


The funny part is, most people who are part of the PC-protected groups

have
no interest in their PC names. Most black people I know want to be called
black, not "African American" as that implies that they're not American
born. Most deaf people I know are deaf, not hearing impared (hearing
impaired implies difficulty hearing, not total lack of hearing ie

deafness)
The African American one brings to mind the white South African born kid
who got in trouble for applying for some sort of "outstanding African
American student" award because he wasn't black. Even though he had

better
claim to the title "African American" than any American born black kid. I
mean, shit, he was ****ing *born in Africa*

Political correctness was just as much of an attack on free speech as the
people who believe that saying bad things about Bush is tantamount to
treason. More so, actually, it's been building up for a longer time and
has had much more sway than the recent war on terror trend.

Remember the financial advisor in DC who had to resign for using the word
"niggardly" just because it sounds similar to "******" Nevermind the fact
that niggardly shares no origins with ******, and has a perfectly
acceptable use given the context. It means "stingy" or "miserly" and is
completely acceptable to use when talking about finances.

See, that's what political correctness is about: It doesn't matter if
you're right or not, it only matters if people are offended. Well guess
what? There's nothing in our laws that imply you have a right not to be
offended. In fact, with freedom of speech you're pretty much guaranteed

to
be offended at some point in your life. People just need to get a thicker
skin about it, and not try to coerce others into not offending them.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: People are stupid.


And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes

How'd they get that name?



I know this is an attempt at a troll, having cross-posted to all of

these unrelated groups, but I'll
post this article I found anyway:

http://www.the-scientist.com/yr1991/...in_911125.html

The Scientist 5[23]:0, Nov. 25, 1991

snip

--
--------------
Peace,
Delta Nine


Life is very difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier.
-Buddha

I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine.
- T.D. Shadow




Judy 06-04-2004 08:48 PM

Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
 


David Hill wrote:
"...........I'm not surprised that you still are using the highly offensive
racist name for the plants ..........."

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...with the names you use at
times????

Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you
still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct
brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit".
Short people are "Vertically challenged"
People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able."
And it goes on and on



And Brazil nuts are still called ****** toes


Delta Nine 06-04-2004 08:48 PM

Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
 
Cereus-validus wrote:
Ah yes, but it is the uneducated great unwashed that are the ones that are
quickly offended because they believe everyone is making fun of them anyway
and they will quickly riot if they believe they are being insulted.

They are the type of people who will drag Americans through the streets
without a second thought.

All through history it has been the great unwashed that have repeatedly
toppled great civilizations and set mankind back thousands of years by doing
so.



I don't really think it's that so much as people who are professionally
offended. As in, people who act like they're offended because it gives
them power over others. They're usually shameless demagogues. Jesse
Jackson and Al Sharpton, I'm looking in your direction.

--
--------------
Peace,
Delta Nine


Life is very difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier.
-Buddha

I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine.
- T.D. Shadow


zxcvbob 06-04-2004 08:48 PM

Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
 
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I know this is an attempt at a troll, having cross-posted to all of these unrelated groups, but I'll
post this article I found anyway:

http://www.the-scientist.com/yr1991/...in_911125.html

The Scientist 5[23]:0, Nov. 25, 1991



I think that article is best summarized by its last sentence:
"One can only imagine the damage that already has been done in this regard."

The operative word being "imagine."

Best regards,
Bob

Zemedelec 06-04-2004 08:48 PM

Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
 
Probably few people outside kaffirdom know who kaffirs are--or were.
zemedelec

paghat 06-04-2004 08:48 PM

Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
 
In article , Delta Nine
wrote:

Darren Garrison wrote:

On 3 Apr 2004 22:16:02 -0800,

(theoneflasehaddock) wrote:


Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you
still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct
brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit".
Short people are "Vertically challenged"
People with a disability are not disabled they are "Differently able."
And it goes on and on


The funny part is, most people who are part of the PC-protected groups have
no interest in their PC names. Most black people I know want to be called
black, not "African American" as that implies that they're not American
born. Most deaf people I know are deaf, not hearing impared (hearing
impaired implies difficulty hearing, not total lack of hearing ie deafness)
The African American one brings to mind the white South African born kid
who got in trouble for applying for some sort of "outstanding African
American student" award because he wasn't black. Even though he had better
claim to the title "African American" than any American born black kid. I
mean, shit, he was ****ing *born in Africa*

Political correctness was just as much of an attack on free speech as the
people who believe that saying bad things about Bush is tantamount to
treason. More so, actually, it's been building up for a longer time and
has had much more sway than the recent war on terror trend.

Remember the financial advisor in DC who had to resign for using the word
"niggardly" just because it sounds similar to "******" Nevermind the fact
that niggardly shares no origins with ******, and has a perfectly
acceptable use given the context. It means "stingy" or "miserly" and is
completely acceptable to use when talking about finances.

See, that's what political correctness is about: It doesn't matter if
you're right or not, it only matters if people are offended. Well guess
what? There's nothing in our laws that imply you have a right not to be
offended. In fact, with freedom of speech you're pretty much guaranteed to
be offended at some point in your life. People just need to get a thicker
skin about it, and not try to coerce others into not offending them.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: People are stupid.


A lyric, not by Woody Guthrie:

"Let your voice be heard, even though you're stupid
You can have a word, like any other fool
You've got as big a right
As anyone who's bright
So let your voice be heard."

People who have the "people are stupid" philosophy of life tend to leave
out the most significant stupid person when tallying who are these people,
which of course would start with the individual with that philosophy. As
long as you're not REALLY saying "Everyone is stupid except me" then I
will agree with you, because the rant above is one of the stupidest I've
seen on UseNet this week, & that's really going some. Even though I
actually do embrace the philosophy that people are stupid, I wouldn't
exclude many people at all, certainly not you or myself. Cuz even on the
rare occasion when I'm the smartest person in a given gathering, that
still needn't be exactly smart.

You've mistaken politeness for political correctness, & you've ranted on
irrationally. If you approach all of life like this, I hope no one ever
gives you a bucket of phlegm, because you'll be mistaking it for
Budweiser. Now to me politeness is a personal choice, one I frequently do
not choose, but people who do choose it I'm not going to mistake for
******s who wish they could impose their differing standard on me.

That said, underlying your loony-tunes rant against your own straw dog
called "political correctness," it is at least true that it's a stupid
idea to insist a Kaffir Lily can't be called a Kaffir Lily because on a
completely different continent Kaffir is a hate-word spewed primarily from
the trashy mouths of a bunch of butt-ugly honky-eqivalent Afrikaaners. One
might avoid the word if one seriously desires to be excessively polite
even in contexts when only a putz would get offended, that's fine, but
that does make it laughable that Ceroid of all people should pretend it
mattered to him, since he's not one to suffer our fellow fools gently.
Frankly if I went into a nursery & asked if they had any Berg Lilies, they
wouldn't have a clue what the **** I was after, & when they figured out
what I really meant & corrected that to Kaffir, that'd just be a pushy
set-up to talk about what the word means on a different continent to a
specific class of racist whites -- whites so low in the class structure
that no self-respecting Bantu would condescend to reply to such physical &
mental dwarfs.

If not for the World Wide Web, to anyone who'd never been to South Africa,
Kaffir means "a pretty flower from somewhere in Africa," nothing more or
less.

The Arabic word actually means "rejector of Truth" or "believer in lies,"
i.e., unconverted to Islam, a believer in some other faith, or an Infidel.
So the biggest dumbest Kaffirs in Africa are those ugly-ass honky
Calvinists. Among Islamic peoples it is still used to mean a Christian, a
Hindu, an atheist, anyone who has had the opportunity to convert to the
"Truth" but has refused, & it has no racial meaning at all. In medieval
East Africa after long contact with Muslims, even tribal peoples borrowed
the word to mean "all tribal peoples," as there'd been no universal
trade-word for aboriginal peoples collectively.

The word was in use for CENTURIES before white south african racists began
to use it like the equivalent of American white trashoids' use of the word
******. Curiously, when modern fundamentalist Islamic nutcakes use the
word "Kaffir," they even today do NOT mean black folks, let alone African
aboriginal peoples; it still means "Infidel" & 99 times out of a 100 when
they use the word, it is to describe someone who is a white christian or a
non-Moslem in India. In India there used to be Kaffir clubs for white
Europeans living in India, the word being unknown as a racial epithet but
well known as a synonym for Heathen -- to be a member of the Suicide Club,
the Philistine Club, or a Kaffir Club was to be a person of bohemian
disposition out for a good time.

If Ice T says "******," when Lenny Bruce said "******," if Mark Mathabane
calls himself a "Kaffir boy," if I fill this paragraph with the words
"******" & "kaffir," that's totally different from someone waving a
Confederate flag, putting on a white hood, & saying let's go kill some
******s, or climbing out of their pig stye covered in pigshit & calling
for a new Fuzzy Wuzzy War to reinstate Apartheid.

So too a gardener who loves their kaffir lily is not the same as some
Dutch ****** descended from filth & filth to this day looking REAL hard
for an excuse to look down on ANYone lest they have to face their own
actual social reality.

Out of mere politeness & self-preservation, on any journey to South
Africa, one should not be asking about the Kaffir Lilies, but might want
to call them Berg Lilies or River Lilies or get all fancy-ass & call them
by their Bantu name khahlana, as it really would otherwise & indeed be
like saying ****** Toes while walking over to visit President Clinton in
his Harlem offices. But since the word neither inherently in its origin or
in its continuous multiple meanings has the racist context it has for the
most ugly-ass Calvinists in South Africa, the word is not necessarily
tainted for use elsewhere in other contexts.

If a Muslim calls me a Kaffir, I know he's a fool who hates Jews &
Christians & Hindus en masse; if a Dutch South African calls native
peoples Kaffirs, I know he's a fool who projects a justified self-hatred
on his betters; but if a gardener speaks of their Kaffirs, I assume they
love flowers. Really, to assume some South African visiting in North
America would be offended by the name Kaffir Lily is to make the horrible
& perhaps racist assumption that such people are so fabulously low-IQ as
to be unable to see there is no longer any context whatsoever for the word
to mean anything but a flower. The day may come when Kaffir Corn, Kaffir
Plum, & Kaffir Lily are no longer used names, but it must first become
common knowledge that the word can be hurtful in some distant place when
used by the sorts of white people most of us would not want in our houses
-- & how much better to rob the word of its power to hurt, instead of
spreading that power around the globe by "educating" people to its power.

I'm reminded that among some local Northwest tribal peoples, the word
"Ahu!" is a shout of praise, shouted from the audience to a speaker on
important topics. I attended a peace rally & as the Native American
medicine man spoke, friends in the audience shouted "Ahu!" periodically, &
afterword a Japanese Buddhist monk in his flowing robes & shaved head got
up to speak, but he was so tickled he couldn't speak for thirty seconds, &
then explained in his heavy accent that in his country, "Ahu!" means
"Stupid!"

So anyone who wishes to clean the word "Kaffir Lily" out of their personal
vocabulary because, hey, this is the world wide web, & it really is like
hanging out at least partly in South Africa -- then for that choice I say
"Ahu!", hooray!, how polite you are. But if someone just thinks it's a
vulgar word in every context & nobody should use it anywhere ever who
isn't a racist, then to them I also say "Ahu!", stupid!

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl:
http://www.paghat.com/

Janet Baraclough.. 06-04-2004 08:49 PM

Kaffir Lily is an offensive name
 
The message
from "David Hill" contains these
words:

Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you
still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct
brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit".


To help you avoid being offensive due to ignorance; the term kaffir
equates to "******", not "black".

Janet


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