In my search on compost bins, I found retail sites for red worms. Are these
worms really better than earth worms? I am in zone 4, will the survive our
winters?

I appreciate any advice on these worms.

D~

On Sun, 23 May 2004, Annaid wrote:

In my search on compost bins, I found retail sites for red worms. Are these
worms really better than earth worms? I am in zone 4, will the survive our
winters?

I appreciate any advice on these worms.

D~

While I'm not an expert and I am a new person here I have been doing a lot
of reading about this lately. From what I have read, (no pun...) the
reason red worms are "better" is because they will eat material that
regular earthworms won't. Redworms will eat almost any organic material.
You can give them kitchen waste, shredded paper, manure, etc. The
earthworms in your yard basically eat dirt.

I bought some red worms from a "live bait" vending machine. $2.00 for
maybe 10 little worms. Not the best buy, but it's a start. I have them
in a big coffee can now with some shredded newspaper (bedding) and blender
compost. I'm not sure they like it yet, so I haven't added anything yet.
I would like to get a real worm bin at some point.

Just wanted to share this information while it was fresh in my mind
because I've been reading about it so much. Read on the net
anything you can find about vermicomposting (and the google archives
here).

What I'd like somebody to tell me about is if "regular" earthworms still
have a place in vermicomposting. Is there any reason to have both? I
imagine as long as there is suitable material they can still thrive. I am
trying to be frugal and I would really like to not have to buy more worms
right now!

On Sun, 23 May 2004, Annaid wrote:

In my search on compost bins, I found retail sites for red worms. Are these
worms really better than earth worms? I am in zone 4, will the survive our
winters?

I appreciate any advice on these worms.

D~

Forgot to answer your question about winters. Mostly because I didn't
have an answer, but this person had some things to say:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...363431621.html

The comment "Those that hung around are definitely the tough ones" makes
me think about an interesting aspect to vermicomposting that I was
thinking about before... The worms that will survive are the ones best
suited to the conditions you give them, so if you allow them to breed over
the years they would more or less adapt, I think... Maybe I am being
too optomistic thinking about breeding a secret race of superworms.

"Annaid" wrote in message
...
In my search on compost bins, I found retail sites for red worms. Are
these
worms really better than earth worms? I am in zone 4, will the survive
our
winters?

I appreciate any advice on these worms.

D~


Here's a link to the worm forum:
http://www.wormdigest.org/forum/index.cgi?#24886

The main difference between earthworms and redworms are that earthwoms live
in the ground and won't survive in a bin. Red worms won't survive in
freezing weather, or extremely hot weather. I keep mine in the garage, to
keep from freezing and also to keep the earwigs out in summer. Many people
keep a small bin under the kitchen sink. If you keep it covered with wet
newpaper strips, it doesn't smell, and it can be very convieniant in the
kitchen.

The essential difference between the 2 species of worms is that common
earthworms will not increase in numbers very fast. Start with 10 worms and
next year you may have 10 worms, whereas red worms increase in numbers
rapidly to the limit of their food. In my experience, and contrary to
another poster, earth worms eat anything, whereas the red worms are fussy
and won't eat tough things like tomato skins unless they are starving. I
gave up my worm bin about 5 years ago and last year there were still a few
red worms at the bottom of the compost heap. Some survived in the garden
soil in a spot where I worked in a lot of compost for 3 years, and I live
in zone 3.

"Annaid" wrote in message
...
In my search on compost bins, I found retail sites for red worms. Are
these
worms really better than earth worms? I am in zone 4, will the survive
our
winters?

I appreciate any advice on these worms.

D~

On Wed, 26 May 2004, Andrew Ostrander wrote:

The essential difference between the 2 species of worms is that common
earthworms will not increase in numbers very fast. Start with 10 worms and
next year you may have 10 worms, whereas red worms increase in numbers
rapidly to the limit of their food. In my experience, and contrary to
another poster, earth worms eat anything, whereas the red worms are fussy
and won't eat tough things like tomato skins unless they are starving. I
gave up my worm bin about 5 years ago and last year there were still a few
red worms at the bottom of the compost heap. Some survived in the garden
soil in a spot where I worked in a lot of compost for 3 years, and I live
in zone 3.

Wow, that just seems plain odd. I haven't as much experience to back it
up, but everything I've read says exactly the opposite about earthworms
vs. red worms in regards to what they will eat. All the worm bin places
sell red worms. I did try putting some earthworms in kitchen (blender)
compost and they all died within a day or two. That was before I read
about having bedding and such for them to live in. I actually kinda felt
bad too.

In article , David Kotschessa
wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 2004, Andrew Ostrander wrote:

The essential difference between the 2 species of worms is that common
earthworms will not increase in numbers very fast. Start with 10 worms and
next year you may have 10 worms, whereas red worms increase in numbers
rapidly to the limit of their food. In my experience, and contrary to
another poster, earth worms eat anything, whereas the red worms are fussy
and won't eat tough things like tomato skins unless they are starving. I
gave up my worm bin about 5 years ago and last year there were still a few
red worms at the bottom of the compost heap. Some survived in the garden
soil in a spot where I worked in a lot of compost for 3 years, and I live
in zone 3.

Wow, that just seems plain odd. I haven't as much experience to back it
up, but everything I've read says exactly the opposite about earthworms
vs. red worms in regards to what they will eat. All the worm bin places
sell red worms. I did try putting some earthworms in kitchen (blender)
compost and they all died within a day or two. That was before I read
about having bedding and such for them to live in. I actually kinda felt
bad too.

Yes, red worms eat even crap & can live directly in crap, like under
rabbit hutches, & can be quite unwholesome, exuding a yellow toxin (more
of the toxin if living in manure than if living in table scraps), so that
if you fed them to pond or aquarium fish or salamanders, could kill your
pets. They'll also live in swamps & sometimes seem semi-aquatic; I've
turned bog mud over & found the redworms very thick & squirmy like in some
sort of horror movie. Most of these conditions would kill regular
earthworms & nightcrawlers, which are superior for aeriating the garden
overall & enriching topsoil in situ, & even superior for ordinary garden
compost as they take care of decaying plant matter very well, but not so
good for rotting heaps of kitchen leavings or fresh manure.

Introduced red worms sometimes displace earthworms from gardens. Their
competitive edge is unfortunate, since their toxicity is potentially
harmful to birds & wildlife that rely on worms for a major part of their
diet. When they migrate to gardens, however, their toxic level drops
because they're not living in garbage & poo anymore, but they always smell
bad & animals don't like them as much. If I ever use them they'll be in a
tightly closed bin because I do not want them escaping to the garden. I
feed my pet salamanders & newts earthworms right from the garden, & don't
want to end up sorting tasty healthful worms from toxic worms. But my
grampa's rabbitry used them right in the ground under the wire cages, &
though the redworms tended to like life in the shit & urine, they did
unfortunately also take over some of the nearby gardens.

If you let a nice garden earthworm slime your fingers, your fingers smell
like good garden soil. But if you let those redworms slime your fingers,
your fingers smell like the nasty toxins.

Common earthworms & nightcrawlers & tiny whiteworms all reproduce rapidly
however. They just don't do so in filth & garbage. Little whiteworms are
good at reducing autumn leaves to leafmold, & for a very SMALL worm bin,
they are excellent. I raised them to feed salamander tadpoles, & any
kitchen leftovers I dropped on top of their little bin was quickly gobbled
down. They're so small though they wouldn't be great for producing lots of
castings to spread in the garden, maybe for a few indoor pots.
Nightcrawlers make the most castings plus you have ready fish bait, unlike
with redworms that smell bad even to trout.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

On Wed, 26 May 2004, paghat wrote:

In article , David Kotschessa
wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 2004, Andrew Ostrander wrote:

The essential difference between the 2 species of worms is that common
earthworms will not increase in numbers very fast. Start with 10 worms and
next year you may have 10 worms, whereas red worms increase in numbers
rapidly to the limit of their food. In my experience, and contrary to
another poster, earth worms eat anything, whereas the red worms are fussy
and won't eat tough things like tomato skins unless they are starving. I
gave up my worm bin about 5 years ago and last year there were still a few
red worms at the bottom of the compost heap. Some survived in the garden
soil in a spot where I worked in a lot of compost for 3 years, and I live
in zone 3.

Wow, that just seems plain odd. I haven't as much experience to back it
up, but everything I've read says exactly the opposite about earthworms
vs. red worms in regards to what they will eat. All the worm bin places
sell red worms. I did try putting some earthworms in kitchen (blender)
compost and they all died within a day or two. That was before I read
about having bedding and such for them to live in. I actually kinda felt
bad too.

Yes, red worms eat even crap & can live directly in crap, like under
rabbit hutches, & can be quite unwholesome, exuding a yellow toxin (more
of the toxin if living in manure than if living in table scraps), so that
if you fed them to pond or aquarium fish or salamanders, could kill your
pets. They'll also live in swamps & sometimes seem semi-aquatic; I've
turned bog mud over & found the redworms very thick & squirmy like in some
sort of horror movie. Most of these conditions would kill regular
earthworms & nightcrawlers, which are superior for aeriating the garden
overall & enriching topsoil in situ, & even superior for ordinary garden
compost as they take care of decaying plant matter very well, but not so
good for rotting heaps of kitchen leavings or fresh manure.

Introduced red worms sometimes displace earthworms from gardens. Their
competitive edge is unfortunate, since their toxicity is potentially
harmful to birds & wildlife that rely on worms for a major part of their
diet. When they migrate to gardens, however, their toxic level drops
because they're not living in garbage & poo anymore, but they always smell
bad & animals don't like them as much. If I ever use them they'll be in a
tightly closed bin because I do not want them escaping to the garden. I
feed my pet salamanders & newts earthworms right from the garden, & don't
want to end up sorting tasty healthful worms from toxic worms. But my
grampa's rabbitry used them right in the ground under the wire cages, &
though the redworms tended to like life in the shit & urine, they did
unfortunately also take over some of the nearby gardens.

If you let a nice garden earthworm slime your fingers, your fingers smell
like good garden soil. But if you let those redworms slime your fingers,
your fingers smell like the nasty toxins.

Common earthworms & nightcrawlers & tiny whiteworms all reproduce rapidly
however. They just don't do so in filth & garbage. Little whiteworms are
good at reducing autumn leaves to leafmold, & for a very SMALL worm bin,
they are excellent. I raised them to feed salamander tadpoles, & any
kitchen leftovers I dropped on top of their little bin was quickly gobbled
down. They're so small though they wouldn't be great for producing lots of
castings to spread in the garden, maybe for a few indoor pots.
Nightcrawlers make the most castings plus you have ready fish bait, unlike
with redworms that smell bad even to trout.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com


Well now I guess I am thoroughly confused!

Well, I had some red worms...never smell at all...Here they are called
Californian red worms....

--
Paulo
"David Kotschessa" wrote in message
...



On Wed, 26 May 2004, paghat wrote:

In article , David Kotschessa
wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 2004, Andrew Ostrander wrote:

The essential difference between the 2 species of worms is that
common
earthworms will not increase in numbers very fast. Start with 10
worms and
next year you may have 10 worms, whereas red worms increase in
numbers
rapidly to the limit of their food. In my experience, and contrary
to
another poster, earth worms eat anything, whereas the red worms are
fussy
and won't eat tough things like tomato skins unless they are
starving. I
gave up my worm bin about 5 years ago and last year there were still
a few
red worms at the bottom of the compost heap. Some survived in the
garden
soil in a spot where I worked in a lot of compost for 3 years, and
I live
in zone 3.

Wow, that just seems plain odd. I haven't as much experience to back
it
up, but everything I've read says exactly the opposite about
earthworms
vs. red worms in regards to what they will eat. All the worm bin
places
sell red worms. I did try putting some earthworms in kitchen
(blender)
compost and they all died within a day or two. That was before I read
about having bedding and such for them to live in. I actually kinda
felt
bad too.

Yes, red worms eat even crap & can live directly in crap, like under
rabbit hutches, & can be quite unwholesome, exuding a yellow toxin (more
of the toxin if living in manure than if living in table scraps), so
that
if you fed them to pond or aquarium fish or salamanders, could kill your
pets. They'll also live in swamps & sometimes seem semi-aquatic; I've
turned bog mud over & found the redworms very thick & squirmy like in
some
sort of horror movie. Most of these conditions would kill regular
earthworms & nightcrawlers, which are superior for aeriating the garden
overall & enriching topsoil in situ, & even superior for ordinary garden
compost as they take care of decaying plant matter very well, but not so
good for rotting heaps of kitchen leavings or fresh manure.

Introduced red worms sometimes displace earthworms from gardens. Their
competitive edge is unfortunate, since their toxicity is potentially
harmful to birds & wildlife that rely on worms for a major part of their
diet. When they migrate to gardens, however, their toxic level drops
because they're not living in garbage & poo anymore, but they always
smell
bad & animals don't like them as much. If I ever use them they'll be in
a
tightly closed bin because I do not want them escaping to the garden. I
feed my pet salamanders & newts earthworms right from the garden, &
don't
want to end up sorting tasty healthful worms from toxic worms. But my
grampa's rabbitry used them right in the ground under the wire cages, &
though the redworms tended to like life in the shit & urine, they did
unfortunately also take over some of the nearby gardens.

If you let a nice garden earthworm slime your fingers, your fingers
smell
like good garden soil. But if you let those redworms slime your fingers,
your fingers smell like the nasty toxins.

Common earthworms & nightcrawlers & tiny whiteworms all reproduce
rapidly
however. They just don't do so in filth & garbage. Little whiteworms are
good at reducing autumn leaves to leafmold, & for a very SMALL worm bin,
they are excellent. I raised them to feed salamander tadpoles, & any
kitchen leftovers I dropped on top of their little bin was quickly
gobbled
down. They're so small though they wouldn't be great for producing lots
of
castings to spread in the garden, maybe for a few indoor pots.
Nightcrawlers make the most castings plus you have ready fish bait,
unlike
with redworms that smell bad even to trout.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com


Well now I guess I am thoroughly confused!