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Old 25-08-2004, 08:56 PM
Alan Sung
 
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Default Tree damaged by car accident - Insurance problems

This past winter a large SUV crashed into a Norway Maple in front of my
house out near the road. The tree has a 7" caliper, 21" circumference and is
about 35-40 feet high. A chunk of the bark about 18" high and about 1/3 of
the circumference was knocked off down to the bare wood.

The driver was very cordial and said that their insurance would pay for the
damage. I had a certified horticulturalist from Weston Nurseries come and
look at the tree and write a letter giving an estimate. It says "This tree
will continue to live for several more years, however, with each year this
tree will leaf out less and less, resulting in rotting branches and internal
rot of the exposed hard wood due to the extensive cambium layer scar. No
remedial action can save this tree."

The numbers we
Tree: $5,000
Delivery w/crane truck: $275
Tree and stump removal: $600
Installation w/3 laborers and compost soil: $600

After sending this information off to Commerce Insurance, they came back and
said "We'll give you $500 because we do not think the tree needs to be
replaced and that's all that the damaged bark is worth. We sent an adjuster
to look at the tree and it looks just fine."

I am looking to get a second opinion from another certified horticulturalist
who is familiar with tree values and associated costs. Does anyone have any
recommendations or the best way to proceed?

Thanks,
-al sung
Hopkinton, MA



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Old 25-08-2004, 09:21 PM
Doug Kanter
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Is Commerce your company, or the driver's?

"Alan Sung" wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s52...
This past winter a large SUV crashed into a Norway Maple in front of my
house out near the road. The tree has a 7" caliper, 21" circumference and

is
about 35-40 feet high. A chunk of the bark about 18" high and about 1/3 of
the circumference was knocked off down to the bare wood.

The driver was very cordial and said that their insurance would pay for

the
damage. I had a certified horticulturalist from Weston Nurseries come and
look at the tree and write a letter giving an estimate. It says "This tree
will continue to live for several more years, however, with each year this
tree will leaf out less and less, resulting in rotting branches and

internal
rot of the exposed hard wood due to the extensive cambium layer scar. No
remedial action can save this tree."

The numbers we
Tree: $5,000
Delivery w/crane truck: $275
Tree and stump removal: $600
Installation w/3 laborers and compost soil: $600

After sending this information off to Commerce Insurance, they came back

and
said "We'll give you $500 because we do not think the tree needs to be
replaced and that's all that the damaged bark is worth. We sent an

adjuster
to look at the tree and it looks just fine."

I am looking to get a second opinion from another certified

horticulturalist
who is familiar with tree values and associated costs. Does anyone have

any
recommendations or the best way to proceed?

Thanks,
-al sung
Hopkinton, MA




  #3   Report Post  
Old 25-08-2004, 09:40 PM
paghat
 
Posts: n/a
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In article [email protected]_s52, "Alan Sung" wrote:

This past winter a large SUV crashed into a Norway Maple in front of my
house out near the road. The tree has a 7" caliper, 21" circumference and is
about 35-40 feet high. A chunk of the bark about 18" high and about 1/3 of
the circumference was knocked off down to the bare wood.

The driver was very cordial and said that their insurance would pay for the
damage. I had a certified horticulturalist from Weston Nurseries come and
look at the tree and write a letter giving an estimate. It says "This tree
will continue to live for several more years, however, with each year this
tree will leaf out less and less, resulting in rotting branches and internal
rot of the exposed hard wood due to the extensive cambium layer scar. No
remedial action can save this tree."

The numbers we
Tree: $5,000
Delivery w/crane truck: $275
Tree and stump removal: $600
Installation w/3 laborers and compost soil: $600

After sending this information off to Commerce Insurance, they came back and
said "We'll give you $500 because we do not think the tree needs to be
replaced and that's all that the damaged bark is worth. We sent an adjuster
to look at the tree and it looks just fine."

I am looking to get a second opinion from another certified horticulturalist
who is familiar with tree values and associated costs. Does anyone have any
recommendations or the best way to proceed?

Thanks,
-al sung
Hopkinton, MA


I think the arborist gave you a very sound diagnosis, & the insurance
company is doing what insurance companies always attempt to do, evade
payment.

Your next letter to them should be from your attorney, with added costs of
a second aborist's diagnosis, plus attorney fees.

But bare in mind that moving a full grown tree to a new location is not
the most certain way of getting a healthy tree. Unless it comes with a
three-year guarantee (you'll be lucky to get a one-year guarantee, from
tree movers who know it'll last that long at least so they're safe
offering that limited promise) the chances of it slowly wasting away are
very good for an uprooted & transported adult tree. A much younger tree
will settle in much more certainly.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com
  #4   Report Post  
Old 25-08-2004, 09:51 PM
zxcvbob
 
Posts: n/a
Default

paghat wrote:
In article [email protected]_s52, "Alan Sung" wrote:


This past winter a large SUV crashed into a Norway Maple in front of my
house out near the road. The tree has a 7" caliper, 21" circumference and is
about 35-40 feet high. A chunk of the bark about 18" high and about 1/3 of
the circumference was knocked off down to the bare wood.

The driver was very cordial and said that their insurance would pay for the
damage. I had a certified horticulturalist from Weston Nurseries come and
look at the tree and write a letter giving an estimate. It says "This tree
will continue to live for several more years, however, with each year this
tree will leaf out less and less, resulting in rotting branches and internal
rot of the exposed hard wood due to the extensive cambium layer scar. No
remedial action can save this tree."

The numbers we
Tree: $5,000
Delivery w/crane truck: $275
Tree and stump removal: $600
Installation w/3 laborers and compost soil: $600

After sending this information off to Commerce Insurance, they came back and
said "We'll give you $500 because we do not think the tree needs to be
replaced and that's all that the damaged bark is worth. We sent an adjuster
to look at the tree and it looks just fine."

I am looking to get a second opinion from another certified horticulturalist
who is familiar with tree values and associated costs. Does anyone have any
recommendations or the best way to proceed?

Thanks,
-al sung
Hopkinton, MA



I think the arborist gave you a very sound diagnosis, & the insurance
company is doing what insurance companies always attempt to do, evade
payment.

Your next letter to them should be from your attorney, with added costs of
a second aborist's diagnosis, plus attorney fees.

But bare in mind that moving a full grown tree to a new location is not
the most certain way of getting a healthy tree. Unless it comes with a
three-year guarantee (you'll be lucky to get a one-year guarantee, from
tree movers who know it'll last that long at least so they're safe
offering that limited promise) the chances of it slowly wasting away are
very good for an uprooted & transported adult tree. A much younger tree
will settle in much more certainly.

-paghat the ratgirl



It might be better to file a claim against your homeowner's policy and
let your insurance company sue the other insurance co. At least talk to
your insurance agent about how to collect from the other deadbeat
insurance company. (it gets interesting if they are the same company)

BTW, around here, Norway Maple is considered an invasive exotic species.

Best regards,
Bob
  #5   Report Post  
Old 25-08-2004, 10:45 PM
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
paghat wrote:
In article [email protected]_s52, "Alan Sung"

wrote:


This past winter a large SUV crashed into a Norway Maple in front of my
house out near the road. The tree has a 7" caliper, 21" circumference

and is
about 35-40 feet high. A chunk of the bark about 18" high and about 1/3

of
the circumference was knocked off down to the bare wood.

The driver was very cordial and said that their insurance would pay for

the
damage. I had a certified horticulturalist from Weston Nurseries come

and
look at the tree and write a letter giving an estimate. It says "This

tree
will continue to live for several more years, however, with each year

this
tree will leaf out less and less, resulting in rotting branches and

internal
rot of the exposed hard wood due to the extensive cambium layer scar. No
remedial action can save this tree."

The numbers we
Tree: $5,000
Delivery w/crane truck: $275
Tree and stump removal: $600
Installation w/3 laborers and compost soil: $600

After sending this information off to Commerce Insurance, they came back

and
said "We'll give you $500 because we do not think the tree needs to be
replaced and that's all that the damaged bark is worth. We sent an

adjuster
to look at the tree and it looks just fine."

I am looking to get a second opinion from another certified

horticulturalist
who is familiar with tree values and associated costs. Does anyone have

any
recommendations or the best way to proceed?

Thanks,
-al sung
Hopkinton, MA



I think the arborist gave you a very sound diagnosis, & the insurance
company is doing what insurance companies always attempt to do, evade
payment.

Your next letter to them should be from your attorney, with added costs

of
a second aborist's diagnosis, plus attorney fees.

But bare in mind that moving a full grown tree to a new location is not
the most certain way of getting a healthy tree. Unless it comes with a
three-year guarantee (you'll be lucky to get a one-year guarantee, from
tree movers who know it'll last that long at least so they're safe
offering that limited promise) the chances of it slowly wasting away are
very good for an uprooted & transported adult tree. A much younger tree
will settle in much more certainly.

-paghat the ratgirl



It might be better to file a claim against your homeowner's policy and
let your insurance company sue the other insurance co. At least talk to
your insurance agent about how to collect from the other deadbeat
insurance company. (it gets interesting if they are the same company)

BTW, around here, Norway Maple is considered an invasive exotic species.


One thing to consider about filing a claim with your insurance company is
that it could end-up getting you dropped, particularly if you have filed
other claims in the last few years. Insurance companies have been
scrambling to cut cost recently with the loss of investment income coupled
with underwriting losses from large-scale disasters. In Ohio, insurers have
been reviewing their files and dropping anyone with more than two claims in
three to five years. I know of two people who were dropped this year even
though they had only filed two small claims that were related to damage
beyond their control. Another person received an advisory letter. In
addition, I learned recently that people are checking the number of claims
that a home seller has filed as part of their home search to make sure that
they can get insurance and that the premiums will be affordable. Filing a
claim may make it harder to sell your home if that is a possibility. Life
never gets more simple.




  #6   Report Post  
Old 25-08-2004, 10:47 PM
Ann
 
Posts: n/a
Default

zxcvbob expounded:

It might be better to file a claim against your homeowner's policy and
let your insurance company sue the other insurance co. At least talk to
your insurance agent about how to collect from the other deadbeat
insurance company. (it gets interesting if they are the same company)


Bad idea. Insurance claims on your own policy can lead to
cancellation.

Commerce is responsive to lawyer threats. Paghat had several good
suggestions, I'd take her advise
..
BTW, around here, Norway Maple is considered an invasive exotic species.


Unfortunately they're still sold by the nursery industry.
--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************
  #7   Report Post  
Old 25-08-2004, 11:52 PM
GardŮ@GardŮ.info
 
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Default

"Vox Humana" in
:

One thing to consider about filing a claim with your insurance company
is that it could end-up getting you dropped, particularly if you have
filed other claims in the last few years


i wonder what line of business insurance companies are planning to shift
toward?
  #8   Report Post  
Old 25-08-2004, 11:53 PM
GardŮ@GardŮ.info
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ann in news:[email protected]
4ax.com:

Commerce is responsive to lawyer threats.


true, they pass laws that restrict usage of courts for only business
catfights.

Paghat had several good
suggestions, I'd take her advise


  #9   Report Post  
Old 25-08-2004, 11:58 PM
 
Posts: n/a
Default

sounds good but never, ever, never make a claim against homeowners insurance unless
your house is totaled. they cancel policies and black list people faster than car
insurance companies. Ingrid

zxcvbob wrote:
It might be better to file a claim against your homeowner's policy and
let your insurance company sue the other insurance co. At least talk to
your insurance agent about how to collect from the other deadbeat
insurance company. (it gets interesting if they are the same company)

BTW, around here, Norway Maple is considered an invasive exotic species.

Best regards,
Bob




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  #10   Report Post  
Old 26-08-2004, 12:10 AM
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default


" wrote in message
...
"Vox Humana" in
:

One thing to consider about filing a claim with your insurance company
is that it could end-up getting you dropped, particularly if you have
filed other claims in the last few years


i wonder what line of business insurance companies are planning to shift
toward?


The business of taking your policy money for twenty years and then dropping
you when you file a claim because the siding blew off your house and then
six months later your roof was damaged by lighting.




  #11   Report Post  
Old 26-08-2004, 01:07 AM
Travis
 
Posts: n/a
Default

zxcvbob wrote:


BTW, around here, Norway Maple is considered an invasive exotic species.

Best regards,
Bob


Unless you say where here is your statement is worthless.


--
Travis in Shoreline Washington
  #12   Report Post  
Old 26-08-2004, 01:41 AM
Frank Logullo
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Alan Sung" wrote in message
news:[email protected]_s52...
This past winter a large SUV crashed into a Norway Maple in front of my
house out near the road. The tree has a 7" caliper, 21" circumference and

is
about 35-40 feet high. A chunk of the bark about 18" high and about 1/3 of
the circumference was knocked off down to the bare wood.

The driver was very cordial and said that their insurance would pay for

the
damage. I had a certified horticulturalist from Weston Nurseries come and
look at the tree and write a letter giving an estimate. It says "This tree
will continue to live for several more years, however, with each year this
tree will leaf out less and less, resulting in rotting branches and

internal
rot of the exposed hard wood due to the extensive cambium layer scar. No
remedial action can save this tree."

The numbers we
Tree: $5,000
Delivery w/crane truck: $275
Tree and stump removal: $600
Installation w/3 laborers and compost soil: $600

After sending this information off to Commerce Insurance, they came back

and
said "We'll give you $500 because we do not think the tree needs to be
replaced and that's all that the damaged bark is worth. We sent an

adjuster
to look at the tree and it looks just fine."

I am looking to get a second opinion from another certified

horticulturalist
who is familiar with tree values and associated costs. Does anyone have

any
recommendations or the best way to proceed?

You could get the 2nd opinion but I suggest you also look into the limit in
small claims court in your area. You can usually sue there without needing
a lawyer.
Frank


  #13   Report Post  
Old 26-08-2004, 01:44 AM
Murph
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Alan Sung" wrote
This past winter a large SUV crashed into a Norway Maple in front of my
house out near the road. The tree has a 7" caliper, 21" circumference and

is
about 35-40 feet high. A chunk of the bark about 18" high and about 1/3 of
the circumference was knocked off down to the bare wood.

The driver was very cordial and said that their insurance would pay for

the
damage. I had a certified horticulturalist from Weston Nurseries come and
look at the tree and write a letter giving an estimate. It says "This tree
will continue to live for several more years, however, with each year this
tree will leaf out less and less, resulting in rotting branches and

internal
rot of the exposed hard wood due to the extensive cambium layer scar. No
remedial action can save this tree."

The numbers we
Tree: $5,000
Delivery w/crane truck: $275
Tree and stump removal: $600
Installation w/3 laborers and compost soil: $600

After sending this information off to Commerce Insurance, they came back

and
said "We'll give you $500 because we do not think the tree needs to be
replaced and that's all that the damaged bark is worth. We sent an

adjuster
to look at the tree and it looks just fine."

I am looking to get a second opinion from another certified

horticulturalist
who is familiar with tree values and associated costs. Does anyone have

any
recommendations or the best way to proceed?

Thanks,
-al sung
Hopkinton, MA


The insurance company is banking that you did not have the tree insured for
more. Your homeowners policy _probably_ would only pay $500 for removal etc
if it got hit by lightning. $500 is the normal for storm damage, be it 1
tree or 20, most policies have a $500 cap per incident (not per tree). You
should be able to verify this through your policy or a quick call to your
agent. Now if you updated your insurance, and can prove you had it insured
for over 6k, then it's a different story.

  #14   Report Post  
Old 26-08-2004, 02:08 AM
Ann
 
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Default

Travis expounded:

zxcvbob wrote:


BTW, around here, Norway Maple is considered an invasive exotic species.

Best regards,
Bob


Unless you say where here is your statement is worthless.


Norway maples are an invasive exotic species all over the country.
They push out native red maples around here, along with sugar maple
seedlings. I can show you acres of forest overtaken by them around
here. They shouldn't be sold period.
--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************
  #15   Report Post  
Old 26-08-2004, 02:22 AM
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Murph" wrote in message
...

"Alan Sung" wrote
This past winter a large SUV crashed into a Norway Maple in front of my
house out near the road. The tree has a 7" caliper, 21" circumference

and
is
about 35-40 feet high. A chunk of the bark about 18" high and about 1/3

of
the circumference was knocked off down to the bare wood.

The driver was very cordial and said that their insurance would pay for

the
damage. I had a certified horticulturalist from Weston Nurseries come

and
look at the tree and write a letter giving an estimate. It says "This

tree
will continue to live for several more years, however, with each year

this
tree will leaf out less and less, resulting in rotting branches and

internal
rot of the exposed hard wood due to the extensive cambium layer scar. No
remedial action can save this tree."

The numbers we
Tree: $5,000
Delivery w/crane truck: $275
Tree and stump removal: $600
Installation w/3 laborers and compost soil: $600

After sending this information off to Commerce Insurance, they came back

and
said "We'll give you $500 because we do not think the tree needs to be
replaced and that's all that the damaged bark is worth. We sent an

adjuster
to look at the tree and it looks just fine."

I am looking to get a second opinion from another certified

horticulturalist
who is familiar with tree values and associated costs. Does anyone have

any
recommendations or the best way to proceed?

Thanks,
-al sung
Hopkinton, MA


The insurance company is banking that you did not have the tree insured

for
more. Your homeowners policy _probably_ would only pay $500 for removal

etc
if it got hit by lightning. $500 is the normal for storm damage, be it 1
tree or 20, most policies have a $500 cap per incident (not per tree). You
should be able to verify this through your policy or a quick call to your
agent. Now if you updated your insurance, and can prove you had it

insured
for over 6k, then it's a different story.


I don't see how the victim's insurance is relevant to the value of the tree.




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