Hello folks. I've been lurking in this NG for a while, but tonight is
the first time I've posted. I need your help. Here's my dilemma:

Hurricane Ivan put a serious lean on a large Water Oak of mine. The
Oak probably stands about 30 feet tall and has a trunk diameter of
about 13 inches/circumference of 46-47 inches. It's leaning at about
a 10-degree angle. A smaller Water Oak (about half the size/diameter)
stands on my property line about 10-12 feet behind it. Would it be
feasible to some how use the smaller Oak to right the larger one? I
hate to lose this nice shade tree, but I can't leave it the way it is.
It's now an eyesore and if it were to get blown over it would catch a
portion of my home's roof.

- So, should I break out the chain saw?

- Or should I, and is it possible to, straighten this tree back up?

Thanks in advance for your help,

Patrick

On 21 Sep 2004 18:28:16 -0700, (Patrick) wrote:

===Hello folks. I've been lurking in this NG for a while, but tonight is
===the first time I've posted. I need your help. Here's my dilemma:
===
===Hurricane Ivan put a serious lean on a large Water Oak of mine. The
===Oak probably stands about 30 feet tall and has a trunk diameter of
===about 13 inches/circumference of 46-47 inches. It's leaning at about
===a 10-degree angle. A smaller Water Oak (about half the size/diameter)
===stands on my property line about 10-12 feet behind it. Would it be
===feasible to some how use the smaller Oak to right the larger one? I
===hate to lose this nice shade tree, but I can't leave it the way it is.
=== It's now an eyesore and if it were to get blown over it would catch a
===portion of my home's roof.
===
===- So, should I break out the chain saw?
===
===- Or should I, and is it possible to, straighten this tree back up?
===
===Thanks in advance for your help,
===
===Patrick


Tryiing to restraighten or hold a leaner tree is hard to do. Its
unknown if the root system on one side or the other may have suffered
damages, and you always have to worry about another good wind coming
along for quite some time to establish the fact that the tree is
firmly back in the ground. I have seen various attemps at saving
leaners, some work some did not. I also have a heap of trees leaning
from Ivan and noticeable loose soils around roots, and just to be on
the safe side any of them that if they fell could cause harm or damage
is getting removed........The few that are off to the one side that if
they fell would not pose a problem I intend to experiment with, but it
certainly gonna be a long time until I can truthfully trust them as to
being secured in place.

If you right the larger tree using the smaller tree, how are you gonna
hold it in place, or do you intend to use the small tree as a sort of
anchor? You really need more than one anchor point to secure a tree
back up vertically, as odds are it also has loose roots to the sides
as well.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
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talk to a tree specialist. oaks are supposed to withstand storms like this. maybe
there is a problem with lopsided growth, or encircling roots that prevented proper
root growth on one side. in any case, the tree may need to be trimmed. it is worth
saving cause it is probably pretty old, right?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:43:21 GMT, wrote:

===talk to a tree specialist. oaks are supposed to withstand storms like this. maybe
===there is a problem with lopsided growth, or encircling roots that prevented proper
===root growth on one side. in any case, the tree may need to be trimmed. it is worth
===saving cause it is probably pretty old, right?
===
===
===~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
===List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
===http://puregold.aquaria.net/
===www.drsolo.com
===Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
===~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
===Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
===compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
===endorsements or recommendations I make.


An oak should take good ewinds, however they do have a shallow root
system, and with the amount of rain Ivan dumped, and the winds it
don;t take long for a tree with a decent canopy to start to loosen up
no matter how healthy it is. I lots a tree during hurricane Opal back
in 1995 that was over 200 years old. A huge oak. Its first lib was
over 42 inches in diameter and was approx 30 feet fromthe ground. Its
canopy would have been sufficient for a state record tree if it had
more uniformity to it. Those oaks may be strong, but the root system
especially in soggy soils suck. I lost 27 of them and on the ones
that were upturned, you can see a root mass that is very very large in
diameter but not all that deep as compared to pine trees. Anothe
rproblem with an oak is once they get past a certain age and diameter
its usually pretty common for them to start to rot and become hollow
on the insides, which usually does not harm them but its not readily
apparaent on the outside. I wold not think an oak of this fellows size
would be hollow though, but water oaks are among the worse for being
hollow inside.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
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wrote in message ...
talk to a tree specialist. oaks are supposed to withstand storms like this. maybe
there is a problem with lopsided growth, or encircling roots that prevented proper
root growth on one side. in any case, the tree may need to be trimmed. it is worth
saving cause it is probably pretty old, right?


Sorry, ol' pal, but oaks do *not* stand up to high winds because they
are shallow rooted. Almost all homes damaged by the truly large trees
were oaks.

Bob S.

(Patrick) wrote in message . com...
Hello folks. I've been lurking in this NG for a while, but tonight is
the first time I've posted. I need your help. Here's my dilemma:

Hurricane Ivan put a serious lean on a large Water Oak of mine. The
Oak probably stands about 30 feet tall and has a trunk diameter of
about 13 inches/circumference of 46-47 inches. It's leaning at about
a 10-degree angle. A smaller Water Oak (about half the size/diameter)
stands on my property line about 10-12 feet behind it. Would it be
feasible to some how use the smaller Oak to right the larger one? I
hate to lose this nice shade tree, but I can't leave it the way it is.
It's now an eyesore and if it were to get blown over it would catch a
portion of my home's roof.

- So, should I break out the chain saw?


Yes. Righting trees that big is usually a losing proposition. The
roots have been damaged, and even if you got it upright again, I doubt
you'd be able to prevent rot from setting in below ground. It would
then be even more precarious and likely to obliterate part of your
house when even a modest wind came along.


J. Del Col

really.. must be southern oaks cause the ones up here have a very deep tap root and
almost never get blown over. they are very slow growing reaching great ages before
they get really BIG. Ingrid

(Bob S.) wrote:

wrote in message ...
talk to a tree specialist. oaks are supposed to withstand storms like this. maybe
there is a problem with lopsided growth, or encircling roots that prevented proper
root growth on one side. in any case, the tree may need to be trimmed. it is worth
saving cause it is probably pretty old, right?


Sorry, ol' pal, but oaks do *not* stand up to high winds because they
are shallow rooted. Almost all homes damaged by the truly large trees
were oaks.

Bob S.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

(Patrick) wrote in message . com...

Thanks for the replies, folks. I guess the general concensous is to
break out the chain saw to rule out the future possibility of it
falling on my house. I kinda figured that. I also noticed tonight
the tree has a lot of vertical "stress marks" in the bark on the south
side of the trunk. Probably not a good sign either, huh? I just
hate to lose this nice shade tree. Oh well, I guess it gives me the
opportunity/reason to buy something more interesting to replace it.
Any suggestions for a yard in Florida's panhandle? Know of anything
that would go nice with my other two Water Oaks, two Dogwoods, one
Japanese Maple (grows to 20 feet), a couple Japanese Snowballs, and a
few Crapes Myrtles...?

Patrick


Hello folks. I've been lurking in this NG for a while, but tonight is
the first time I've posted. I need your help. Here's my dilemma:

Hurricane Ivan put a serious lean on a large Water Oak of mine. The
Oak probably stands about 30 feet tall and has a trunk diameter of
about 13 inches/circumference of 46-47 inches. It's leaning at about
a 10-degree angle. A smaller Water Oak (about half the size/diameter)
stands on my property line about 10-12 feet behind it. Would it be
feasible to some how use the smaller Oak to right the larger one? I
hate to lose this nice shade tree, but I can't leave it the way it is.
It's now an eyesore and if it were to get blown over it would catch a
portion of my home's roof.

- So, should I break out the chain saw?

- Or should I, and is it possible to, straighten this tree back up?

Thanks in advance for your help,

Patrick

Water Oaks are not a desirable tree in Florida for streets or near houses.
(They are fine for large properties well away from any structure). They are
VERY fast growing, they get massive very quickly, and they DIE relatively
young - (like at age 50) which means an expensive removal down the line.
Live oaks stand up to hurricanes better, although they will often drop one
of their massive limbs in a storm if the combination of sopping wet spanish
moss, leaves, and strong winds gets them all at one time. However, the tree
itself will usually be fine. Given the mass of those trees, I was surprised
in the 1984 hurricane in Tallahassee to see several live oaks uprooted with
telephone wire strung around them like a spool of thread - tornados of
course, spawned by the passage of the hurricane. Hard to imagine the
strength of a tornado sufficient to lift a 10 ton tree and spin it like a
top, but there was the evidence.
If you want to stay in the oak family, and are too impatient to wait for a
live oak to grow, you might consider something like a Shumard Oak - it even
colors up nicely in the fall - but slower growing than a water oak, so it
should stand up to storms better. Or perhaps go out of the oak family.
Liriodendrons (tulip poplars) are large shade trees which grow fast but are
much longer-lived on average than water oaks. You could also grow a bald
cypress. Many people are not aware that they can grow just fine on dry
ground. They favor swamps partly because they are very susceptible to fire.
"Roy" wrote in message
...
On 21 Sep 2004 18:28:16 -0700, (Patrick) wrote:

===Hello folks. I've been lurking in this NG for a while, but tonight
is
===the first time I've posted. I need your help. Here's my dilemma:
===
===Hurricane Ivan put a serious lean on a large Water Oak of mine. The
===Oak probably stands about 30 feet tall and has a trunk diameter of
===about 13 inches/circumference of 46-47 inches. It's leaning at
about
===a 10-degree angle. A smaller Water Oak (about half the
size/diameter)
===stands on my property line about 10-12 feet behind it. Would it be
===feasible to some how use the smaller Oak to right the larger one? I
===hate to lose this nice shade tree, but I can't leave it the way it
is.
=== It's now an eyesore and if it were to get blown over it would catch
a
===portion of my home's roof.
===
===- So, should I break out the chain saw?
===
===- Or should I, and is it possible to, straighten this tree back up?
===
===Thanks in advance for your help,
===
===Patrick


Tryiing to restraighten or hold a leaner tree is hard to do. Its
unknown if the root system on one side or the other may have suffered
damages, and you always have to worry about another good wind coming
along for quite some time to establish the fact that the tree is
firmly back in the ground. I have seen various attemps at saving
leaners, some work some did not. I also have a heap of trees leaning
from Ivan and noticeable loose soils around roots, and just to be on
the safe side any of them that if they fell could cause harm or damage
is getting removed........The few that are off to the one side that if
they fell would not pose a problem I intend to experiment with, but it
certainly gonna be a long time until I can truthfully trust them as to
being secured in place.

If you right the larger tree using the smaller tree, how are you gonna
hold it in place, or do you intend to use the small tree as a sort of
anchor? You really need more than one anchor point to secure a tree
back up vertically, as odds are it also has loose roots to the sides
as well.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:57:26 GMT, wrote:

===really.. must be southern oaks cause the ones up here have a very deep tap root and
===almost never get blown over. they are very slow growing reaching great ages before
===they get really BIG. Ingrid
===
(Bob S.) wrote:
===
wrote in message ...
=== talk to a tree specialist. oaks are supposed to withstand storms like this. maybe
=== there is a problem with lopsided growth, or encircling roots that prevented proper
=== root growth on one side. in any case, the tree may need to be trimmed. it is worth
=== saving cause it is probably pretty old, right?
===
===
===Sorry, ol' pal, but oaks do *not* stand up to high winds because they
===are shallow rooted. Almost all homes damaged by the truly large trees
===were oaks.
===
===Bob S.
===
===
===
snip
I would have to think it all depends on the type of oak it is and the
soil its in, and also the surounding terrain . There is a lot more to
just saying its an oak and it is made to take a big storm, or iots an
oak and its got shallow tap roots etc............Water oak in general
has very shallow roots, white oak on the other hand and red oak seem
to have a deeper root system, but are much slower growing.......Moss
or Burr oak or Live oaks are even slower and have a much larger root
mass than the others mentioned . But its only pertinent to my area and
soils conditiions and climate........

One could also say it was predominately oaks that blew over as that
was the most poplar species of trees for the area, buit if it was in
the northin a maple tree concentrated area it cold then be maples
doing all the damage. All I know is pine trees wiuth long deep tap
roots and little canopy as compared to a deciduous tree always seems
to fare better for this area in a hurricane or other storm........Oaks
do well as long as the ground does not get inundated with water for a
period of time and have lots of wind motion. Biggest problem with
pines is in a tornado they snap the tops out pretty easy.


Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
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On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:21:41 -0700, "gregpresley"
wrote:

===Water Oaks are not a desirable tree in Florida for streets or near houses.
===(They are fine for large properties well away from any structure). They are
===VERY fast growing, they get massive very quickly, and they DIE relatively
===young - (like at age 50) which means an expensive removal down the line.
===Live oaks stand up to hurricanes better, although they will often drop one
===of their massive limbs in a storm if the combination of sopping wet spanish
===moss, leaves, and strong winds gets them all at one time. However, the tree
===itself will usually be fine.snip

Your right. Mobile Alabama and Gulfport Biloxi is full of live oaks
and they have seen many a bad hurricane come through in their lifetime
and most of them survive just fine........water oaks go down in a
heartbeat, and the spanish moss certainly does not help things
either.........
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wife,
I had no input whatsoever.
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wrote in message ...
really.. must be southern oaks cause the ones up here have a very deep
tap root and almost never get blown over. they are very slow growing
reaching great ages before they get really BIG.

Ingrid

Ours do not have tap roots - just a large mass of shallow roots. The
tops get heavy and the mix of wet soil and high wind causes them to
topple.

Bob S.