(DavesVideo) wrote:

-snip-
Not just southren, it's country including new York and PA.

They are delicious fried, but sometimes a bit tough which is why I prefer the
stew.

NY here-- We ate them in spaghetti sauce mostly. [never ate the
brains, though]

Jim

--

" Eeech. As I pointed out before, the Suquamish have asked many times,
humbly & politely, that this fabrication not be fobbed off on Chief
Sealth. Why persist in the insult?

I had no idea I was "persisting in insulting" the Suquamish peoples. Who
elected you to personally attack me? Educate me, don't flog me because I
don't know everything like you do.

It's fine if this piece of white
christian fabrication speaks to you personally, but for god sake at least
credit it to the Jesus freak scriptwriter who wrote it.

as for insinuating that this quote is a piece of white Christian fabrication
that "speaks to me personally" and then telling me for God's sake at least
credit it to the Jesus freak script writer who wrote it doesn't get my
attention other than realizing that you might know shit, but you don't know
shit about me personally.


The correct
attribution would be "Ted Perry, 1972."

And how the HELL would I know that some man by the name of Ted Perry in 1972
wrote this?? I didn't go to college. I am self educated since graduating in
1971.

I can see you don't want to credit it honestly,

and that just ticks me off that you assume that I don't want to credit the
quote honestly. You're assuming again.

because much as people
pretend it's great writing, only the name of Sealth is great, & in
admitting it's from a christian telefilm script for the Southern Baptist
Convention's Radio & Television Commission, well, being HONEST would
require this honkified fabrication to stand on its own merits, which are
equal to the merits of Ashleigh Brilliant, not Chief Sealth.

Well, you can lable the quote as a honkified fabrication all you want, but
you are just showing your bigoted and prejudice towards Southern people.
And as a Tennessean and Southerner, I take offense at that. I don't usually
let words affect me. I've never had my black friends call me honky, because
I am not a honky. To understand that insult would require you to be brought
up by a black family and understand the serious insult it holds. Same as
Cracker. Now unless you're telling me you're some partially black person
who hates white Southerners because they're Southerners, well, you ain't got
a leg to stand on.

this kind of crap falls in the same category as the black people who insist
on screaming that "your people owned my people as slaves" and it's 2004.
I'm tired of that bull too. I hate that there was slavery, and I hate that
Southern people's had black's for slaves. I personally never owned a slave.
Nor did any of my ancestors. In fact, my immediate ancestors were persons
of menial servitudes,(Scotch-Irish) as well as fine and honorable Cherokee
and Apache blooded peoples as well as German. What I find amusing is before
there were white slave owners, there were BLACK slave owners, and the people
who were sold as slaves were sold by their own chiefs to white slave
holders. And before that, all types of "educated" people's owned slaves. I
seem to recall some rumor that Egyptians owned slaves.........and gee that
goes back pretty far. And were we to find early evidence, I'm sure someone
owned someone else in servitude. The hatred or anger towards me as a
"white"person is lost on me because I am not truely "white" I might LOOK
white, but I am in fact just a blend of several races of peoples and
actually, I tend to call myself a human being. Which is ironic since true
Native American people besides calling themselves by their tribal names of
identification considered themselves human beings above all else. When they
took white children and women for their own, it was merely for replacement
of someone lost in their community. they never looked at the person as
"white" but as another human being of worth.

And the early Natives weren't so tainted with imposing their ways as much as
it was just territorial. You can't tell me all Native people's got along
famously. There were wars amongst themselves just as there were wars
amongst other civilizations. They were human and men same as they've always
been. If there was food or a woman to be wanted and taken, it happened. This
is just a human condition. That Chief Sealth was a great and wise man is
fantastic. That I don't know about him, is only because I grew up in an area
where his life and worth wasn't taught in school. Such was my loss.

I am proud to claim all my heritages. My immediate peoples are equally
divided. My birth mother was Scotch-Irish/Cherokee/Apache period. My
biological father was 100% German as far as I can tell. That makes me a
good strong Heinz 57 of some sort. A good blend of what an American is.

But gosh darn
it, do TRY to have some respect for Sealth and stop crediting him for this
Southern Baptist invention.

Geeze you sure get your kickers in a wad about things. Why don't you use
your venom for someone else, like the greeting card people or the Sierra
club or whomever you are really ****ed at.

Perry has generally avoided public statements because he is justifiably
humiliated to have been responsible for this great insult to Chief Sealth.

I don't see why he'd be justifiably humiliated. He's probably just
humiliated because he was exposed for putting words in someone's mouth. Like
that never happened before.

.. After all, Chief Seattle is a revered icon. So no harm, no
foul. Right? Wrong, say scholars. "Native American culture is constantly
being exploited and appropriated as illustrations of whatever European
theory is in fashion," says Jack D. Forbes, a professor of Native American
studies at the University of California at Davis. These range from the
extreme individualism of the 1983 novel Hanta Yo to the New Age
spiritualism of Lynn Andrews. "When," asks Forbes, echoing the
frustrations of other Native Americans, "will the thefts of our spiritual
traditions end?"

Well gee, when will the Native people's acknowledge that they have only
lived here for around 10,000 years but aren't the original peoples? That
there were others much further back that settled and civilized this country
long before them? And I speak about this as someone who has Native
heritage in them so I'd not be here if not for them.....

It is horrifying that whites hugely prefer their own modern version which
has
been turned into t-shirts, environmentalist posters, greeting cards,
persistantly misattributed for the three decades since it was written,
while Sealth's actual words of peace & sorrow receed from public
knowledge. Why is that awful Ashleigh Brilliant-style fake speech so
well known, loved, & persistantly quoted, but the disturbingly beautiful
original is not:

So you don't like Ashleigh Brilliant either..........how nice for you. Or
should I say that anything that moves people towards something positive is
abhorrent to you? Who cares who said it? That it speaks of people being
connected and affecting each other is what the initial message is all about,
the same as all religions speak the same basic message. Get along with each
other, take care of the earth and where you live.

I take offence that you are so quick to assume that because I am Southern
that I am some ignorant ass bible thumping self righteous person. I am
appalled that you are so quick to accuse me when I just don't have facts
sometimes. I am Southern by where I grew up, and where my people's settled
and lived. I am not prejudiced, nor am I judgmental that I can tell. But I
can tell you one thing, if you don't like my signature at the end of my
writings, then just don't read them. No, better yet, how about since you
know all about everything, and you are so self righteous and assuming, I
think maybe I should just leave this newsgroup and give you all the room you
need. I wouldn't want to ruin your day with my uneducated, Southern
attitudes. It's people like you who ruin my love of people because you
remind me that you are no better than the Christians who self righteously
cut off the hair of the Native people who were my ancestors and beat them
because they spoke their languages, or gave their cold people infected
blankets of disease knowing they'd contract those diseases and die. You are
no better than those who slaughtered my people. Your finger is accusatory
and were this another time, you'd probably have me stoned for my arrogance
or come uppance.

It's all well and good that you love the people of the land but to think and
assume that I don't give a damn about them is lacking in your ability for
compassion. that old saying of let he who is without sin cast the first
stone seems appropriate here somehow....and just because they are supposed
words of a Christian man, I'm sure you'll find a way to dispel that the man
Jesus said that too. And I'm sure someone did say it, but whoever said it
was saying something profound. Like being connected. Good words and way of
life doesn't matter where or who it comes from. Get a grip and leave me
alone.

You've educated me about this, you've shoved your opinion down my throat,
and you've effectively run me off. Your vindictiveness towards someone you
really don't know is sad somehow, but I won't suffer from your words. I just
find it sad to think that I'm allowing you to drive me away from a place
that I truely enjoy. I will not really completely leave. I know that I am
loved and respected here. But when things of this nature happen, or someone
attacks me like you did, well it tires me out. It makes me want to leave.
But before someone misreads this last statement, I won't be run off by the
likes of you.

I am the first person to admit when I'm wrong. I never went to college. But
I know what I know and like. And it's just my likes and opinions and they
really don't count for much. You're not really angry or upset at me, you're
****ed at all those other Christians that inflicted their ways of life on
others. Leave me out of your battles. I'm just a bystander.

Now if you don't mind, I'm really thru with you.



Humankind has not woven the web of life. (and we haven't woven this web of
life, it happened without our permission)
We are but one thread within it. (and that in itself is true as all life
on this blue planet is many threads that make up a whole fabric of life)
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. (and this too is true,
because if we tear the web up, it ruins our chances of life and food, or
home, simple words that mean deep things on other levels)
All things are bound together. (and this is truth too. As all humankind
destroys and tears up and wipes out and causes extinction and makes more
waste than the earth can clean up, it affects us all. We all breath air. We
all need water. We all have to have nourishment in some way. The plants
depend on us, we depend on the plants. We've finally discovered the
connection that everything has on everything and yet there are alot of
humankind who refuse to slow down and be benevolent)
All things connect (and that is true as well, wheather you agree or not,
whoever said it. We can't live on this planet if we totally change the
balance of how nature has become. We're seeing this everyday. And if you
can't see that all things connect, that all things are truely bound together
in this world, and whatever we do to the place we live we do to everyone
else, then you want to scream indignity of people instead of pointing out
that regardless of WHO said these words, they are words to live by or at
least respect.

I've said all I am going to about this. You can take your opinions about me
and keep them to yourself in the future. I will never respond to you again.
That I promise.

marilyn the madgardener, up on the ridge, back in my Fairy Holler,
overlooking English Mountain, in Eastern Tennessee zone 7, Sunset zone 36

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:57:22 -0500, "madgardener"
wrote:

this kind of crap falls in the same category as the black people who insist
on screaming that "your people owned my people as slaves" and it's 2004.
I'm tired of that bull too. I hate that there was slavery, and I hate that
Southern people's had black's for slaves. I personally never owned a slave.
Nor did any of my ancestors. In fact, my immediate ancestors were persons
of menial servitudes,(Scotch-Irish) as well as fine and honorable Cherokee
and Apache blooded peoples as well as German. What I find amusing is before
there were white slave owners, there were BLACK slave owners, and the people
who were sold as slaves were sold by their own chiefs to white slave
holders. And before that, all types of "educated" people's owned slaves. I
seem to recall some rumor that Egyptians owned slaves.........and gee that
goes back pretty far. And were we to find early evidence, I'm sure someone
owned someone else in servitude. The hatred or anger towards me as a
"white"person is lost on me because I am not truely "white" I might LOOK
white, but I am in fact just a blend of several races of peoples and
actually, I tend to call myself a human being. Which is ironic since true
Native American people besides calling themselves by their tribal names of
identification considered themselves human beings above all else. When they
took white children and women for their own, it was merely for replacement
of someone lost in their community. they never looked at the person as
"white" but as another human being of worth.


Now there's a racial diatribe!

My best friends are darkies too!

In article , "madgardener" wrote:

--

" Eeech. As I pointed out before, the Suquamish have asked many times,
humbly & politely, that this fabrication not be fobbed off on Chief
Sealth. Why persist in the insult?

I had no idea I was "persisting in insulting" the Suquamish peoples. Who
elected you to personally attack me? Educate me, don't flog me because I
don't know everything like you do.

It's fine if this piece of white
christian fabrication speaks to you personally, but for god sake at least
credit it to the Jesus freak scriptwriter who wrote it.

as for insinuating that this quote is a piece of white Christian fabrication
that "speaks to me personally" and then telling me for God's sake at least
credit it to the Jesus freak script writer who wrote it doesn't get my
attention other than realizing that you might know shit, but you don't know
shit about me personally.

Sorry it ****ed you off so much. I actually pulled my punches cuz I like
you. Since I pointed out this error months ago & you persisted in
repeating an error that many native peoples consider insulting, there was
no reason to suppose you were doing it by ignorance alone.

and that just ticks me off that you assume that I don't want to credit the
quote honestly. You're assuming again.

because much as people
pretend it's great writing, only the name of Sealth is great, & in
admitting it's from a christian telefilm script for the Southern Baptist
Convention's Radio & Television Commission, well, being HONEST would
require this honkified fabrication to stand on its own merits, which are
equal to the merits of Ashleigh Brilliant, not Chief Sealth.

Well, you can lable the quote as a honkified fabrication all you want, but
you are just showing your bigoted and prejudice towards Southern people.
And as a Tennessean and Southerner, I take offense at that. I don't usually
let words affect me. I've never had my black friends call me honky, because
I am not a honky.

You never had me call you honky either, but if it makes you feel better,
okay, you're a honky. I'm a honky. A part Jewish part Yakama Indian part
Irish honky but still predominantly a honky.

To understand that insult would require you to be brought
up by a black family and understand the serious insult it holds. Same as
Cracker. Now unless you're telling me you're some partially black person
who hates white Southerners because they're Southerners, well, you ain't got
a leg to stand on.

Crackers & honkies who take offense to being called crackers & honkies are
impossible to take TOO seriously.

this kind of crap falls in the same category as the black people who insist
on screaming that "your people owned my people as slaves" and it's 2004.

Honkeys & crackers who claim the oppression of black America as their own
are SUCH appalling crackers & honkies.

What I find amusing is before
there were white slave owners, there were BLACK slave owners,

Now there's an old southern honkey argument if ever there was one, & as a
person attempting to be more decent than that, you shouldn't succumb to
it, part of your cultural heritage or not. As the next move is to truck
out the other southern honky excuse that the Bible says it's okay to have
slaves.

And the early Natives weren't so tainted with imposing their ways as much as
it was just territorial. You can't tell me all Native people's got along
famously. There were wars amongst themselves just as there were wars
amongst other civilizations. They were human and men same as they've always
been. If there was food or a woman to be wanted and taken, it happened. This
is just a human condition. That Chief Sealth was a great and wise man is
fantastic. That I don't know about him, is only because I grew up in an area
where his life and worth wasn't taught in school. Such was my loss.

I am proud to claim all my heritages. My immediate peoples are equally
divided. My birth mother was Scotch-Irish/Cherokee/Apache period. My
biological father was 100% German as far as I can tell. That makes me a
good strong Heinz 57 of some sort. A good blend of what an American is.

If you weren't so busy "uneductatedly" rewriting the history of southern
slavery & spent a bit more time self-educating yourself on your southern
heritage a little more closely, you could've added that the southern
Scotts were active anti-slavery campaigners & perhaps the ONLY southern
honkies who weren't mad as hatters in favor of it, the only ones NOT
always pointing out that there were slaves even in Africa. But of course
your (partially clipped) ravings about the south don't have squat to do
with anything I wrote. It comes out of your guilt, not my insistance that
Sealth not be credited with completely honkified Baptist slogans.

But gosh darn
it, do TRY to have some respect for Sealth and stop crediting him for this
Southern Baptist invention.

Geeze you sure get your kickers in a wad about things. Why don't you use
your venom for someone else, like the greeting card people or the Sierra
club or whomever you are really ****ed at.

Well gee, when will the Native people's acknowledge that they have only
lived here for around 10,000 years but aren't the original peoples? That
there were others much further back that settled and civilized this country
long before them? And I speak about this as someone who has Native
heritage in them so I'd not be here if not for them.....

Let me get this straight, you are an Indian (not a Scott) speaking as an
Indian & you're saying the First Peoples aren't North America's aboriginal
people neener neener so it's okay if you credit honkified Baptist slogans
to Chief Sealth. I can see you're crazy out of your head angry & so
incapable of making sense, but there's no way I'm responsible for your
madness! That was a month's old post about the honky Baptist origin of the
humiliated Christian Professor's slogan -- why didn't it make you this
****ed off crazy the first time? Oh, it did, that's why you continued to
make the "error" thereafter knowingly.

It is horrifying that whites hugely prefer their own modern version which
has
been turned into t-shirts, environmentalist posters, greeting cards,
persistantly misattributed for the three decades since it was written,
while Sealth's actual words of peace & sorrow receed from public
knowledge. Why is that awful Ashleigh Brilliant-style fake speech so
well known, loved, & persistantly quoted, but the disturbingly beautiful
original is not:

So you don't like Ashleigh Brilliant either..........how nice for you. Or
should I say that anything that moves people towards something positive is
abhorrent to you?

Ashleigh Brilliant is trite beyond belief. Even if that weren't obviously
true, this is another of your excuses for what this time?

I take offence that you are so quick to assume that because I am Southern

I never allued to YOU being southern -- the misattributed quote is from
Southern Baptists. If you also happen to be southern it may be one reason
that quote appealed to you. I never even said that trite Southern Baptist
slogans in favor of ecology are necessarily a bad thing. Imposing that
triteness on a great man of peace was the bad thing, whether or not you
are southern. A lot of what you've taken personally stems from your own
white guilt, not from my reposting the correction after you persisted in
doing something very wrong.

that I am some ignorant ass bible thumping self righteous person.

If you are, that's your business. I never addressed it.

I am
appalled that you are so quick to accuse me when I just don't have facts
sometimes.

I accused you of a misattribution that Chielf Sealth's tribe has
specifically asked be stopped. You continued to do it even after the
correction, so obvioiusly you didn't care. Months later you suddenly care
enough to get angry. I have to assume there are things in your actual life
that make you have to vent, because I never faulted you for anything but
persisting in one error that is an insult to Sealth & his people.

I am Southern by where I grew up, and where my people's settled
and lived. I am not prejudiced, nor am I judgmental that I can tell. But I
can tell you one thing, if you don't like my signature at the end of my
writings, then just don't read them. No, better yet, how about since you
know all about everything, and you are so self righteous and assuming, I
think maybe I should just leave this newsgroup and give you all the room you
need. I wouldn't want to ruin your day with my uneducated, Southern
attitudes. It's people like you who ruin my love of people because you
remind me that you are no better than the Christians who self righteously
cut off the hair of the Native people who were my ancestors and beat them
because they spoke their languages, or gave their cold people infected
blankets of disease knowing they'd contract those diseases and die. You are
no better than those who slaughtered my people. Your finger is accusatory
and were this another time, you'd probably have me stoned for my arrogance
or come uppance.

Whew. That's as loony as it gets. I scalped your Scotch ancestors. Cool.
By the way, my great-grampa Perry, who died when I was 12, was one of
those Indians snatched from his Yakama family, sent to a school where his
language was beaten out of him, & ran away from a farm where where his
white "parents" kept him by any definition as a slave. I have never blamed
any living person for the abuse of my beloved grampa. But then, I'm not on
any mind-altering meds.

I am the first person to admit when I'm wrong.

If so, you're going to be admitting your post was very loony & you're
sorry. But then, if so, you'd've stopped misattributing a southern baptist
slogan to Chief Sealth the first time I posted who actually wrote it.

I never went to college. Leave me out of your battles. I'm just a bystander.

You know what slogan parallels "Leave me out of your battles I'm just a
bystander" don't you? The one that begins: "First they came for the Jews &
I did not speak out because I was not a Jew." If that part of you that is
Cherokee is useful to you for anything but making stupid excuses for
yourself, then you're not a bystander.

I've said all I am going to about this. You can take your opinions about me
and keep them to yourself in the future. I will never respond to you again.
That I promise.

A mutual loss. But not life-changing.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:57:22 -0500, "madgardener"
wrote:

Maddie, according to Cole's Quoteables the following is attributed to
Chief Seattle.

"Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it.
Whatever he does to the web he does to himself."

The way I read it Hallmark did not change the essence of what the
Chief said. I believe Hallmark would have been guilty of plagiarism
had they not credited Chief Seattle.

zennie

well, I appreciate that Zennie. I hate that I sometimes don't see everything
that is posted here, but my life has gotten away from me lately. (as you
probably understand). My lashing out at Paghat last night was a culmination
of her words that I took were aimed at me, and I realize that when she
thought I hadn't cared enough to stop misquoting Chief Sealth, since I had
kept it up. Well, if she posted something about it earlier, I never read it.
Ignorance of the obviously stated sometimes is valid.

I don't like to argue, and I will lose when it comes to intelligent facts.
I am NOT college educated and only self taught and I am seriously lacking in
a lot of things. My ignorance has been spotted many, many times on this
newsgroup, and I hope that I learn from the experiences rather than becoming
defensive.

I hate being thought of as prejudiced because the tones of my words aren't
heard. And if I come across to some people as bigoted, or a racial diatribe,
or contradictory, then I've failed at my attempts to communicate.

If I over reacted, it wouldn't be the first time. But lately, with
everything else, I just get tired and I see that I reacted kind of backed to
the wall with what Paggers had to say to me. I know in most cases that she
researches out her facts, and she's quite knowledgable, but also tends to
shove things at you. I shouldn't have gone off like I did. And she probably
wasn't attacking me personally. I went in and blocked her posts on my tools
option last night and it deleted all sorts of responses from her when I did.
Now I regret that action, and despite that I told her I'd not confront her
again, (something I'm sure won't keep her up at night with worry g) I
still hate that I acted out of frustration.

I'm learning lately that I need to be quite and keep my opinions to myself,
including my rambles and updates on life here in Fairy Holler. I also have a
bit of writers block along with being overwhelmed at home again. Such is my
life and I'm just rolling with it. As usual. Only now I'm older and it's
not always that easy to bounce back.

Enough of that, I'm absolutely delighted to see your post and wonder, are
you still in Pensacola or have you dragged your hubby southwest yet since
the devistating hurricane?
Just seeing the receipt from your opened message I sent a week or so ago
helped me sleep better knowing you were still out there somewhere. I
figured I'd hear from you when I lost Rose, but I also know you have a life
too.

I hope all is well, and maybe sometime when I call, I'll get your sweet
voice on the phone instead of Bill's gbseg

(((much love and hugs)))
Maddie (who now has another dog, Smeagle to keep Sugar occupied
now.......thanks to the plotting of the males in her house)

--

Humankind has not woven the web of life.
We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
All things are bound together.
All things connect
"zhanataya" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:57:22 -0500, "madgardener"
wrote:

Maddie, according to Cole's Quoteables the following is attributed to
Chief Seattle.

"Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it.
Whatever he does to the web he does to himself."

The way I read it Hallmark did not change the essence of what the
Chief said. I believe Hallmark would have been guilty of plagiarism
had they not credited Chief Seattle.

zennie

zhanataya wrote:

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:57:22 -0500, "madgardener"
wrote:

Maddie, according to Cole's Quoteables the following is attributed to
Chief Seattle.

"Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it.
Whatever he does to the web he does to himself."

The way I read it Hallmark did not change the essence of what the
Chief said. I believe Hallmark would have been guilty of plagiarism
had they not credited Chief Seattle.

zennie


Perhaps Paghat thinks that one speech is the only thing noteworthy the
chief ever said.

Best regards,
Bob

paghat wrote:
Crackers & honkies who take offense to being called crackers & honkies are
impossible to take TOO seriously.


Perhaps you can enlighten us regarding which racial and ethnic slurs are
offensive which ones are not?

Best regards,
Bob

In article , zxcvbob wrote:

zhanataya wrote:

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:57:22 -0500, "madgardener"
wrote:

Maddie, according to Cole's Quoteables the following is attributed to
Chief Seattle.

"Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it.
Whatever he does to the web he does to himself."

The way I read it Hallmark did not change the essence of what the
Chief said. I believe Hallmark would have been guilty of plagiarism
had they not credited Chief Seattle.

zennie


Perhaps Paghat thinks that one speech is the only thing noteworthy the
chief ever said.

Best regards,
Bob

Perhaps anyone with a brain belatedly linformed who actually wrote that
Baptist screed wouldn't try so damned hard to believe fire is a liquid,
the moon is made of green cheese, & Chief Sealth lived long enough to give
a Sothern Baptist sermon in 1972. Silly child.

-paggers

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

I hope all is well, and maybe sometime when I call, I'll get your sweet
voice on the phone instead of Bill's gbseg

(((much love and hugs)))
Maddie (who now has another dog, Smeagle to keep Sugar occupied
now.......thanks to the plotting of the males in her house)

There are many ways of getting an education besides sitting in class
and grinding out the hours. I'll take your education over many others
any day. I also know part of your tounge was in your cheek when your
wrote that. But I doubt the person it was intended for caught it.

After Ivan visited my neighborhood I've spent 8 weeks swimming back to
shore. Got a post card from some people on the south Texas gulf
thanking me for the house. They've put pontoons under it and plan to
use it for vacations. So Bill and I have decided to become wandering
snowbirds. It's not like we have to do much packing. We bought a
small place in central Florida and another retirement place in New
Mexico. I love it but it will take a little getting used to, a 20
minute ride to get a loaf of bread.

Bill as you know retired in February and I retired (again) the 2nd of
October, so yes now we finally have a life.

I'm very sorry about Rose. Bill told me but I couldn't find the words
that would be of any comfort. So coward that I am I avoided it by not
calling.

Send me some winter pictures of your garden.

zennie

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:37:52 -0600, zxcvbob
wrote:

zhanataya wrote:

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 02:57:22 -0500, "madgardener"
wrote:

Maddie, according to Cole's Quoteables the following is attributed to
Chief Seattle.

"Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it.
Whatever he does to the web he does to himself."

The way I read it Hallmark did not change the essence of what the
Chief said. I believe Hallmark would have been guilty of plagiarism
had they not credited Chief Seattle.

zennie


Perhaps Paghat thinks that one speech is the only thing noteworthy the
chief ever said.

Best regards,
Bob

Perhaps. Another one of his I like.

"There is no death. Only a changing of worlds."

zennie

zxcvbob expounded:

Perhaps Paghat thinks that one speech is the only thing noteworthy the
chief ever said.

No, the ratgirl has taken one side of a debate. See this page for
lots of Chief Seattle discussion:

http://www.kyphilom.com/www/seattle.html


--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

and THAT was AWESOME! Thanks Ann (I see that Paggers did quite a bit of her
homework in the education towards the correction.) and to clarify this once
and for all.......I never read her first approach towards me or the
signature at the end of my posts she said she posted over a month ago. I'm
big enough to say that I apologize for thinking Paghat was putting me in my
place. I never mind correction if done in a considerate manner. I am never
opposed to learning and it won't be the last time I get something wrong. Now
lets all let this settle in the mud, think about spring bulbs and
thanksgiving meals with family and gather around the fire pits and Chimnea's
and campfires and garden nooks and quietly and passionately slip into our
winter mumblings. Already I dream of the new growing season even as I find
Oriental POPPY leaf fronds poking up in the soil MONTHS too SOON!!
arghhhh!!! Now I have to look for some bags of leaves alongside the road
somewhere to snitch from the garbage men to mulch my babies until true
spring!
madgardener

--

Humankind has not woven the web of life.
We are but one thread within it.
Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves.
All things are bound together.
All things connect
"Ann" wrote in message
...
zxcvbob expounded:

Perhaps Paghat thinks that one speech is the only thing noteworthy the
chief ever said.

No, the ratgirl has taken one side of a debate. See this page for
lots of Chief Seattle discussion:

http://www.kyphilom.com/www/seattle.html


--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

"madgardener" expounded:

Already I dream of the new growing season even as I find
Oriental POPPY leaf fronds poking up in the soil MONTHS too SOON!!
arghhhh!!! Now I have to look for some bags of leaves alongside the road
somewhere to snitch from the garbage men to mulch my babies until true
spring!

Not to worry about those poppies, Maddy, mine always poke their heads
up in the fall, and around here it gets a lot colder than Tenn! I
haven't even raked my front lawn due to the septic install, and this
weekend we're going north, so they'll sit there til after Thanksgiving
at this rate.
--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:07:47 -0800, (paghat)
in rec.gardens wrote:

Crackers & honkies who take offense to being called crackers & honkies are
impossible to take TOO seriously.

Sort of like ******s, wops and spics? hmmmmmmmmm....?

DB