The lemons on my tree have very thick skins and the fruit is extremely sour. I live in zone 14. The tree had been neglected for at least 5 years and was badly infested with scale, but that is under control now. I thought that it might be a bad variety of lemon, but my local nurseryman looked at one of my lemons and told me that was not the case. He also told me that thick skins and sour fruit go together and are both symptoms of a tree that is starved of minerals. He then sold me and iron, sulfur, manganese, zinc mixture called F.S.T. I am also feeding it Citrus food.

Well I have been tossing down a handful F.S.T. and citrus food once every 6 weeks for about a year now, but the lemons are still horribly sour and the skins are still thick. Much of the roots are under our lawn, so I have been spreading F.S.T. and citrus food on my lawn as well, but it doesn't seem to hurt it. Our soil is heavy clay. It may just be that it takes a very long time for the F.S.T. and citrus food to work its way down, but I was hoping for results by now.

Opinions and suggestions please.

G Burton wrote:
The lemons on my tree have very thick skins and the fruit is
extremely sour. I live in zone 14. The tree had been neglected
for at least 5 years and was badly infested with scale, but that is
under control now. I thought that it might be a bad variety of
lemon, but my local nurseryman looked at one of my lemons and told
me that was not the case. He also told me that thick skins and
sour fruit go together and are both symptoms of a tree that is
starved of minerals. He then sold me and iron, sulfur, manganese,
zinc mixture called F.S.T. I am also feeding it Citrus food.

Well I have been tossing down a handful F.S.T. and citrus food
once every 6 weeks for about a year now, but the lemons are still
horribly sour and the skins are still thick. Much of the roots are
under our lawn, so I have been spreading F.S.T. and citrus food on
my lawn as well, but it doesn't seem to hurt it. Our soil is heavy
clay. It may just be that it takes a very long time for the F.S.T.
and citrus food to work its way down, but I was hoping for results
by now.

Opinions and suggestions please.

Remove the grass from the root zone in other words, from the trunk to
the drip line. Is the tree getting adequate water?

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 5

Thanks for your reply.

I don't know where the drip line is. the tree has a radius of about 10
ft, and the grass is about 2 ft from the trunk.

What harm does the grass do? The grass probably isn't much of a factor
because the tree is in the corner the grass covers less and less than 25% of
the circle beneath it.

I think it is getting plenty of water. The lemons also get almost the
size of small grapefruits sometimes. For some reason, it has not been
developing fruit high in the tree -- only in the lower half. Is that a sign
of insufficient water?

What do you think about what the nurseryman said about a mineral
deficiency?

Do you think I might be on the right track, but just too impatient? It
seems to me that it might take a long time for the minerals to get down to
the roots.


"Travis" wrote in message
news:0KtXd.30301$uc.929@trnddc09...
G Burton wrote:
The lemons on my tree have very thick skins and the fruit is
extremely sour. I live in zone 14. The tree had been neglected
for at least 5 years and was badly infested with scale, but that is
under control now. I thought that it might be a bad variety of
lemon, but my local nurseryman looked at one of my lemons and told
me that was not the case. He also told me that thick skins and
sour fruit go together and are both symptoms of a tree that is
starved of minerals. He then sold me and iron, sulfur, manganese,
zinc mixture called F.S.T. I am also feeding it Citrus food.

Well I have been tossing down a handful F.S.T. and citrus food
once every 6 weeks for about a year now, but the lemons are still
horribly sour and the skins are still thick. Much of the roots are
under our lawn, so I have been spreading F.S.T. and citrus food on
my lawn as well, but it doesn't seem to hurt it. Our soil is heavy
clay. It may just be that it takes a very long time for the F.S.T.
and citrus food to work its way down, but I was hoping for results
by now.

Opinions and suggestions please.

Remove the grass from the root zone in other words, from the trunk to the
drip line. Is the tree getting adequate water?

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 5

G Burton wrote:
Thanks for your reply.

I don't know where the drip line is. the tree has a radius of
about 10 ft, and the grass is about 2 ft from the trunk.

What harm does the grass do? The grass probably isn't much of a
factor because the tree is in the corner the grass covers less and
less than 25% of the circle beneath it.

I think it is getting plenty of water. The lemons also get
almost the size of small grapefruits sometimes. For some reason,
it has not been developing fruit high in the tree -- only in the
lower half. Is that a sign of insufficient water?

What do you think about what the nurseryman said about a mineral
deficiency?

Do you think I might be on the right track, but just too
impatient? It seems to me that it might take a long time for the
minerals to get down to the roots.

I don't know anything about lemon trees but lots of trees dislike grass
growing over the root zone. The drip line is the edge of the tree and
its branches. The root zone is generally thought of as the area from
the trunk to the drip line.

Lemons are supposed to be sour.

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 5

"G Burton" wrote in message
...
Thanks for your reply.

I don't know where the drip line is. the tree has a radius of about 10
ft, and the grass is about 2 ft from the trunk.

What harm does the grass do? The grass probably isn't much of a factor
because the tree is in the corner the grass covers less and less than 25%
of the circle beneath it.

I think it is getting plenty of water. The lemons also get almost the
size of small grapefruits sometimes. For some reason, it has not been
developing fruit high in the tree -- only in the lower half. Is that a
sign of insufficient water?

What do you think about what the nurseryman said about a mineral
deficiency?

Do you think I might be on the right track, but just too impatient? It
seems to me that it might take a long time for the minerals to get down to
the roots.


The rule of thumb is that the roots branch out into the soil as far as the
branches grow from the trunk, so the drip line is the circle around the tree
as wide as the longest branch.

As for the suspected soil defency, anything done over the internet is just a
random guess. Consider getting your soil tested. Many university extention
campuses in america will test it for free, or for a small fee. You didn't
say where you are located.

Grass competes with the tree for water and nutrients, which is why orchards
often remove the weeds that grow around the drip line as seen in this
picture.

http://home.earthlink.net/~gathering...%20Orchard.jpg
If that url doesn't work, try this one:
http://xrl.us/fduh

-S

In article ,
says...
I think it is getting plenty of water. The lemons also get almost the
size of small grapefruits sometimes. For some reason, it has not been
developing fruit high in the tree -- only in the lower half. Is that a sign
of insufficient water?


Could the fruit be developing off of limbs from the root stock. Follow
the limbs and see if they are originating from below the graph.
--
Lar

to email....get rid of the BUGS

Not that sour! They make normal lemons seem like watermellons.


"Travis" wrote in message
news:3jxXd.30674$uc.11625@trnddc09...
G Burton wrote:
Thanks for your reply.

I don't know where the drip line is. the tree has a radius of
about 10 ft, and the grass is about 2 ft from the trunk.

What harm does the grass do? The grass probably isn't much of a
factor because the tree is in the corner the grass covers less and
less than 25% of the circle beneath it.

I think it is getting plenty of water. The lemons also get
almost the size of small grapefruits sometimes. For some reason,
it has not been developing fruit high in the tree -- only in the
lower half. Is that a sign of insufficient water?

What do you think about what the nurseryman said about a mineral
deficiency?

Do you think I might be on the right track, but just too
impatient? It seems to me that it might take a long time for the
minerals to get down to the roots.

I don't know anything about lemon trees but lots of trees dislike grass
growing over the root zone. The drip line is the edge of the tree and its
branches. The root zone is generally thought of as the area from the
trunk to the drip line.

Lemons are supposed to be sour.

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 5

Thank you. Nice picture!

I'm in Western Garden book's zone 14, Northern California.

I don't want to strip out the grass in that corner of my yard. There is
not much grass in the drip line anyway. I will look for a place to get my
soil tested, but I know that the topsoil is not a good reflection of what
the roots are imbedded in. That is clay. I guess I would have to dig down
about 3 ft to get a representative sample.




"Snooze" wrote in message
om...
"G Burton" wrote in message
...
Thanks for your reply.

I don't know where the drip line is. the tree has a radius of about
10 ft, and the grass is about 2 ft from the trunk.

What harm does the grass do? The grass probably isn't much of a
factor because the tree is in the corner the grass covers less and less
than 25% of the circle beneath it.

I think it is getting plenty of water. The lemons also get almost the
size of small grapefruits sometimes. For some reason, it has not been
developing fruit high in the tree -- only in the lower half. Is that a
sign of insufficient water?

What do you think about what the nurseryman said about a mineral
deficiency?

Do you think I might be on the right track, but just too impatient?
It seems to me that it might take a long time for the minerals to get
down to the roots.


The rule of thumb is that the roots branch out into the soil as far as the
branches grow from the trunk, so the drip line is the circle around the
tree as wide as the longest branch.

As for the suspected soil defency, anything done over the internet is just
a random guess. Consider getting your soil tested. Many university
extention campuses in america will test it for free, or for a small fee.
You didn't say where you are located.

Grass competes with the tree for water and nutrients, which is why
orchards often remove the weeds that grow around the drip line as seen in
this picture.

http://home.earthlink.net/~gathering...%20Orchard.jpg
If that url doesn't work, try this one:
http://xrl.us/fduh

-S

Good thought. I don't see a graft. The branches that don't bear fruit
grow out of the branches that do bear fruit.

"Lar" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
says...
I think it is getting plenty of water. The lemons also get almost the
size of small grapefruits sometimes. For some reason, it has not been
developing fruit high in the tree -- only in the lower half. Is that
a sign
of insufficient water?


Could the fruit be developing off of limbs from the root stock. Follow
the limbs and see if they are originating from below the graph.
--
Lar

to email....get rid of the BUGS

G Burton wrote:

The lemons on my tree have very thick skins and the fruit is
extremely sour. I live in zone 14. The tree had been neglected
for at least 5 years and was badly infested with scale, but that
is under control now. I thought that it might be a bad variety
of lemon, but my local nurseryman looked at one of my lemons and
told me that was not the case. He also told me that thick skins
and sour fruit go together and are both symptoms of a tree that
is starved of minerals. He then sold me and iron, sulfur,
manganese, zinc mixture called F.S.T. I am also feeding it
Citrus food.

Well I have been tossing down a handful F.S.T. and citrus
food once every 6 weeks for about a year now, but the lemons are
still horribly sour and the skins are still thick. Much of the
roots are under our lawn, so I have been spreading F.S.T. and
citrus food on my lawn as well, but it doesn't seem to hurt it.
Our soil is heavy clay. It may just be that it takes a very long
time for the F.S.T. and citrus food to work its way down, but I
was hoping for results by now.

Opinions and suggestions please.

If you have heavy clay, broadcast a generous amount of gypsum
throughout the root zone, including where you have grass. (The
root zone is the area that would have some shade -- even partial
shade -- from the tree if the sun were directly overhead.) Rinse
the gypsum into the soil. Both the tree and grass will benefit.

All citrus prefers moist soil that is never soggy. In the ground,
it is best to let the top inch or two of the soil dry out before
watering again; then water heavily. Feed while the surface is
moist and lightly rinse the fertilizer into the soil. Feeding when
the soil is dry will result in root burn with the next watering.

If you really want to keep the grass under the tree, aerate the
grass. DO NOT merely spike it, which causes compaction. Use a
tool that removes plugs of soil.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening pages at URL:http://www.rossde.com/garden/

"G Burton" wrote in message
...
The lemons on my tree have very thick skins and the fruit is extremely
sour. I live in zone 14. The tree had been neglected for at least 5 years
and was badly infested with scale, but that is under control now. I thought
that it might be a bad variety of lemon, but my local nurseryman looked at
one of my lemons and told me that was not the case. He also told me that
thick skins and sour fruit go together and are both symptoms of a tree that
is starved of minerals. He then sold me and iron, sulfur, manganese, zinc
mixture called F.S.T. I am also feeding it Citrus food.
Well I have been tossing down a handful F.S.T. and citrus food once
every 6 weeks for about a year now, but the lemons are still horribly sour
and the skins are still thick. Much of the roots are under our lawn, so I
have been spreading F.S.T. and citrus food on my lawn as well, but it
doesn't seem to hurt it. Our soil is heavy clay. It may just be that it
takes a very long time for the F.S.T. and citrus food to work its way down,
but I was hoping for results by now.
Opinions and suggestions please.

Thick skins are often due to too much nitrogen. Could it also be due to
shoots from a rough lemon rootstock that have taken over? Olin

I have been putting down Gypsom regularly. Maybe I should put down
more. I don't think there is such thing as too much gypsom when you have
clay soil.

It's also a good suggestion to aerate the soil.

Thanks!

"David Ross" wrote in message
...
G Burton wrote:

The lemons on my tree have very thick skins and the fruit is
extremely sour. I live in zone 14. The tree had been neglected
for at least 5 years and was badly infested with scale, but that
is under control now. I thought that it might be a bad variety
of lemon, but my local nurseryman looked at one of my lemons and
told me that was not the case. He also told me that thick skins
and sour fruit go together and are both symptoms of a tree that
is starved of minerals. He then sold me and iron, sulfur,
manganese, zinc mixture called F.S.T. I am also feeding it
Citrus food.

Well I have been tossing down a handful F.S.T. and citrus
food once every 6 weeks for about a year now, but the lemons are
still horribly sour and the skins are still thick. Much of the
roots are under our lawn, so I have been spreading F.S.T. and
citrus food on my lawn as well, but it doesn't seem to hurt it.
Our soil is heavy clay. It may just be that it takes a very long
time for the F.S.T. and citrus food to work its way down, but I
was hoping for results by now.

Opinions and suggestions please.

If you have heavy clay, broadcast a generous amount of gypsum
throughout the root zone, including where you have grass. (The
root zone is the area that would have some shade -- even partial
shade -- from the tree if the sun were directly overhead.) Rinse
the gypsum into the soil. Both the tree and grass will benefit.

All citrus prefers moist soil that is never soggy. In the ground,
it is best to let the top inch or two of the soil dry out before
watering again; then water heavily. Feed while the surface is
moist and lightly rinse the fertilizer into the soil. Feeding when
the soil is dry will result in root burn with the next watering.

If you really want to keep the grass under the tree, aerate the
grass. DO NOT merely spike it, which causes compaction. Use a
tool that removes plugs of soil.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
Sunset Zone: 21 -- interior Santa Monica Mountains with some ocean
influence (USDA 10a, very close to Sunset Zone 19)
Gardening pages at URL:http://www.rossde.com/garden/

I'm very much a layman at gardening. What is a "rough lemon rootstock"?

How could it be getting too much nitrogen? I just feed it citrus food.
Sometime I put nitrogen fertilizer on the lawn, but that is a small portion
of the area under the tree.


"omi" wrote in message
news
"G Burton" wrote in message
...
The lemons on my tree have very thick skins and the fruit is extremely
sour. I live in zone 14. The tree had been neglected for at least 5
years and was badly infested with scale, but that is under control now. I
thought that it might be a bad variety of lemon, but my local nurseryman
looked at one of my lemons and told me that was not the case. He also
told me that thick skins and sour fruit go together and are both symptoms
of a tree that is starved of minerals. He then sold me and iron, sulfur,
manganese, zinc mixture called F.S.T. I am also feeding it Citrus food.
Well I have been tossing down a handful F.S.T. and citrus food once
every 6 weeks for about a year now, but the lemons are still horribly sour
and the skins are still thick. Much of the roots are under our lawn, so I
have been spreading F.S.T. and citrus food on my lawn as well, but it
doesn't seem to hurt it. Our soil is heavy clay. It may just be that it
takes a very long time for the F.S.T. and citrus food to work its way
down, but I was hoping for results by now.
Opinions and suggestions please.

Thick skins are often due to too much nitrogen. Could it also be due to
shoots from a rough lemon rootstock that have taken over? Olin

Rough lemon rootstock is the stock upon which a named citrus plant is
grafted..Like Roses, the root stock can take over the plant so that the
original tree that was supposed to be giving you fruit is no longer
producing and the *root stock* has taken over. The root stock is tough and
hard to kill which is the purpose..your graft may be underneath the soil but
it is probably there, producing the crappy fruit that you are now getting. I
think lack of the right growing conditions on a named citrus tree would
produce small, few fruit but not what you discribe..


"G Burton" wrote in message
...
I'm very much a layman at gardening. What is a "rough lemon
rootstock"?

How could it be getting too much nitrogen? I just feed it citrus food.
Sometime I put nitrogen fertilizer on the lawn, but that is a small
portion of the area under the tree.


"omi" wrote in message
news
"G Burton" wrote in message
...
The lemons on my tree have very thick skins and the fruit is
extremely
sour. I live in zone 14. The tree had been neglected for at least 5
years and was badly infested with scale, but that is under control now.
I thought that it might be a bad variety of lemon, but my local
nurseryman looked at one of my lemons and told me that was not the case.
He also told me that thick skins and sour fruit go together and are both
symptoms of a tree that is starved of minerals. He then sold me and
iron, sulfur, manganese, zinc mixture called F.S.T. I am also feeding it
Citrus food.
Well I have been tossing down a handful F.S.T. and citrus food once
every 6 weeks for about a year now, but the lemons are still horribly
sour and the skins are still thick. Much of the roots are under our
lawn, so I have been spreading F.S.T. and citrus food on my lawn as well,
but it doesn't seem to hurt it. Our soil is heavy clay. It may just be
that it takes a very long time for the F.S.T. and citrus food to work its
way down, but I was hoping for results by now.
Opinions and suggestions please.

Thick skins are often due to too much nitrogen. Could it also be due to
shoots from a rough lemon rootstock that have taken over? Olin

Thank you, Alice. I will take some lemons to another nursery for
another opinion.

"alice" wrote in message
...
Rough lemon rootstock is the stock upon which a named citrus plant is
grafted..Like Roses, the root stock can take over the plant so that the
original tree that was supposed to be giving you fruit is no longer
producing and the *root stock* has taken over. The root stock is tough and
hard to kill which is the purpose..your graft may be underneath the soil
but it is probably there, producing the crappy fruit that you are now
getting. I think lack of the right growing conditions on a named citrus
tree would produce small, few fruit but not what you discribe..


"G Burton" wrote in message
...
I'm very much a layman at gardening. What is a "rough lemon
rootstock"?

How could it be getting too much nitrogen? I just feed it citrus
food. Sometime I put nitrogen fertilizer on the lawn, but that is a small
portion of the area under the tree.


"omi" wrote in message
news
"G Burton" wrote in message
...
The lemons on my tree have very thick skins and the fruit is
extremely
sour. I live in zone 14. The tree had been neglected for at least 5
years and was badly infested with scale, but that is under control now.
I thought that it might be a bad variety of lemon, but my local
nurseryman looked at one of my lemons and told me that was not the case.
He also told me that thick skins and sour fruit go together and are both
symptoms of a tree that is starved of minerals. He then sold me and
iron, sulfur, manganese, zinc mixture called F.S.T. I am also feeding
it Citrus food.
Well I have been tossing down a handful F.S.T. and citrus food once
every 6 weeks for about a year now, but the lemons are still horribly
sour and the skins are still thick. Much of the roots are under our
lawn, so I have been spreading F.S.T. and citrus food on my lawn as
well, but it doesn't seem to hurt it. Our soil is heavy clay. It may
just be that it takes a very long time for the F.S.T. and citrus food to
work its way down, but I was hoping for results by now.
Opinions and suggestions please.

Thick skins are often due to too much nitrogen. Could it also be due to
shoots from a rough lemon rootstock that have taken over? Olin