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Which is better for the lawn over the winter?
On Nov 3, 9:16*pm, Lawn Guy wrote:
wrote: Because in most rural places with folks with lots of trees and experience, bagging doesn't exist. * And it doesn't apply. I'm talking about urban properties - not rural. No, it does apply, because in an urban area, with a lot with few trees, it's very easy and effective to just use a mulching mower and grind up the modest amount of leaves on the lawn. I do it. Others here do it. And contrary to your nonsense, it's not because we're lazy. It's because it's less work, returns organic matter to the soil, and is environmentally sound. But go ahead and keep shoving your leaves in bags if you want. We really don't care. Just don't go around calling those of us who choose not to lazy or claim that doing so is incompatible with a healthy lawn. Here anyone who wants to have their leaves taken away, simply blows or rakes them into the street. * The township comes by every couple of weeks from Nov thru Dec and vacuums them up. But even in that case, the leaves are removed. *Doesn't matter if it's by blowing and then vacuuming or by raking and bagging. Well, I would say yes it does. Because for those unfortunate enough to live somewhere that makes you stuff them in bags, it's an even bigger pain in the ass, plus a waste of time, money, and resources. If you did a little research, you'd find that there is widespread agreement that mulching the clippings and leaving them is beneficial to the lawn. * The clippings decay and provide nutrients. The nutient value of grass is so poor that nobody uses grass to make compost. You want a healthy lawn, you use fertilizer. *The cut grass from last season will not nourish your lawn anywhere near what a bag of fertilizer will do. *You want to promote thatch and give a home to bugs, then leave your clippings on the lawn. So says you. No let's see what some qualified and knowledgeable folks have to say. From Agri Extension of the Univ of Missouri: Q What is the "Don't Bag It" lawn care plan? A This MU Extension educational program involves recycling grass clippings. Instead of collecting clippings, the "Don't Bag It" plan encourages people to return them to the lawn. Q What benefits do grass clippings provide if returned to the lawn? A Grass clippings returned to the lawn provide up to 25 percent of your lawn's total fertilizer needs. Clippings contain about 4 percent nitrogen, 2 percent potassium and 1 percent phosphorus. While decomposing, they also serve indirectly as a food source for the bacteria in the soil, which are doing many beneficial things (such as decomposing thatch) for a healthy turf environment. From Univ of Virginia, AG Ext: Valuable Nutrients Lost! The most unappreciated problem with off-site clipping disposal is that potentially valuable commodities, plant organic matter and the nutrients derived from it, are being discarded as a waste material! When clippings are continually removed from a lawn, natural nutrient cycling is partially reduced. Rethinking Clipping Removal The most prevalent reasons that people give for removing clippings may reflect misconceptions and habit. Such reasons include: Bagging may be the accepted practice in the neighborhood. Clippings can become unsightly when they lay on top of the turf canopy. Turf can be smothered due to the inconsistent clipping dispersal of side discharge rotary mowers. Some believe clippings enhance turf disease. Concern over clippings being tracked into a home or swimming pool. The notion that clippings will accumulate and form a detrimental thatch layer. Grasscycling and Thatch Buildup The idea that grass clippings form a major part of thatch has been refuted in the literature. Thatch forms when turf roots, stems (crowns, rhizomes, and stolons), and leaves are sloughed faster than they can decompose. The negative aspects of thatch layers in excess of 1/2 inch a 1) increased potential for cold, heat or drought-related injury, 2) more problems with insect pests and fungal diseases, and 3) additional irrigation required by the turf. From Ohio Sate Univ: http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1189.html "Don't Bag It-The Lawn Maintenance Plan The "Don't Bag It" lawn care plan can save the homeowner time, energy, fertilizers, pesticides, and money, and can reduce the amount of waste going to our landfills. The principle is simple: return clippings to your lawn. By leaving your clippings on the lawn and allowing them to work their way back into soil, you will improve soil health and reduce pesticide and fertilizer use. In fact, grass clippings contain valuable nutrients that can generate up to 25 percent of your lawn's total fertilizer needs. A hundred pounds of grass clippings can generate and recycle as much as three to four pounds of nitrogen, one-half to one pound of phosphorus, and two to three pounds of potassium back to the lawn. These are the three most important nutrients needed by lawns, and are commonly supplied in lawn fertilizers. Also, grass clippings do not contribute to thatch (an organic debris layer between the soil and live grass) since grass clippings are 75-85 percent water and decompose readily. Why, then, do many homeowners bag grass clippings? Basically, it is a personal preference and habit most homeowners have acquired. Proper lawn care practices will usually eliminate surface clipping debris and ensure a successful "Don't Bag It" program. In summary, by composting at home, you can help protect the environment, save money, and improve your soil at the same time. " Beneficial to the companies harvesting trees to make those bags, I highly doubt that paper leaf bags are made from anything other than recycled paper and cardboard. *Not freshly-cut trees. *Maybe tree bark. ... I'd say there isn't anything natural or good for the environment in the whole process. I don't use paper bags for leaves because you can't pack them without tearing them. *That's why I use plastic garbage bags. Even worse, using plastics made of oil to stuff full of leaves. Again, if it makes you happy, go ahead. But don't come around here giving advice based on ignorance and junk science, then calling others who use easier methods that make excellent sense, lazy. Hmmm, what about on all the streets and roads in a municipality where there are just trees and no homes? * Like in the country? You don't have curbs and gutters and storm sewers on country roads. *You have paved or soft-shoulders where leaves don't accumulate on the roads. *So it's a non-issue in the country. In conclusion, I'd like to see some credible reference that agrees with your premise that mulching lawn grass clippings or mulching a reasonable amount of leaves in-situ with a mower, is incompatible with a healthy lawn. If you already have a thatch buildup (1/2 inch or more) you do NOT want to leave your cut grass on the lawn. *If your grass has certain diseases (snow mold, powdery mildew, etc) you DO NOT want to leave your cut grass on the lawn. Another one of your misinformed opinions is not a credible source. Normal grass clippings do not create a thatch problem. Here again from the Univ of Missouri: Q Do clippings returned to the lawn contribute to thatch problems? A Thatch is a layer of undecomposed or partially decomposed grass roots, stems, crowns, runners and lower shoots that accumulate between the soil surface and actively growing turf. Grass clippings contain 80 to 85 percent water and decompose much more quickly than other grass plant parts. Research at MU and other universitites indicates that clippings do not contribute to thatch buildup on any cool- or warm- season grasses, including zoysiagrass If you want a THICK lawn that you don't need to cut every 5 days, then bag your grass. More nonsense. I have a dense tall fescue/blue grass turf and cut it once a week. Once again, I'd like to see a credible reference that using a mulching mower is incompatible with a thick, healthy lawn. *The alternative being promoted to weed killer is to regularly overseed your lawn, resulting in a thicker lawn. More wasted time and money. You overseed a lawn IF it needs it because the grass has thinned out for some reason. *Again, leaving the cut grass on the lawn only works if your lawn is relatively sparse (vs thick) and requires more frequent cutting. Nonsense as demonstrated by my years of actual experience maintaining my own lawn. I mulch, cut it once a week, and it's DENSE, as least as dense as you. *The theoretical BEST that grass cuttings can do when left on the lawn is to provide only 25% of the nutrients required. *Water content claims of cut grass varries wildly from 75% to 90%. Well, Duh? First you claim that grass clippings are worthless. Now it's that they can provide 25% of the nutrients required and are 90% water. Hmmm, let's think about this. What's better? Wasting time bagging, emptying bags, dealing with the clippings, and buying extra fertilizer? Or just leaving the mulched clippings so they provide 25% of the fertilizer? And which wastes less resources and is better for the environment? Bagging your grass has been villified in recent years because municipalities want to desperately keep cut grass out of landfills because many landfills are reaching capacity. *That's why you hear so much about the benefits of not bagging your grass. *They're all imaginary benefits. *Terms like "Grasscycling" are being invented as part of this propaganda. So far, all the propaganda, without any credible references, is coming from you. If you want a good lawn, you bag your grass, and you deal with the clippings by doing something other than putting them in your local municiple landfill. * I've left clippings for 13 years and have the nicest lawn in the neighborhood. Many municipalities have yard waste drop-off depots where home owners can bring various tree and brush cuttings for disposal for no charge. The depots will grind them up and turn them into a compost or mulch, and sell it back to the public. *What you will find is that they won't accept cut grass or use cut grass in the mulch, or will charge $1 a bag and make you dump the grass into it's own dumpster. *But why? *Why not take the grass for free? *Why keep the grass segregated into it's own pile? *If cut grass is so beneficial and high in nutrients, why discourage citizens from bringing it to the depots? *Why doesn't this grass get incorporated into the mulch along with tree branches and other yard waste materials? * Whether it's the ideal material for a great general purpose mulch for a municipality presented with abundant other options, isn't the issue. There are some negative qualities specific to clippings that have nothing to do with it's nutrient value that make it less desirable to use for compost. And that is that lawn clippings are more likely to contain herbicides, pesticides, etc, that alternatives, like leaves. The issue is whether it's a sound practice to leave clippings on a lawn. And the overwhelming consensus from authorities, is YES. Why? *Because cut grass is shit and has little to no nutrient value and is high in carbon. *If it's not good enough for municiple compost piles it's not good enough for your lawn. Now we've gone from clippings can provide 25% of a lawns fertilizer requirements, back to it has little to no nutrient value. Do you even read what you post? I was gonna let it go, but just to show that you don't have a clue, let's look at your statement that clippings are high in carbon. That's easily refuted. From Ohio State Univ here's a list of some compost materials and there carbon content: http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1189.html Table 1. Carbon:Nitrogen Ratio Food wastes 15:1 Sawdust, wood, paper 400:1 Straw 80:1 Grass clippings 15:1 Leaves 50:1 Fruit wastes 35:1 Rotted manures 20:1 Cornstalks 60:1 Alfalfa hay 12:1 At 15, clippings are clearly near the bottom of the list. Highest on the list though at a whopping 400, are paper bags, which most people use to bag leaves. Quite the contrary, I've seen plenty of authorities that say returning either grass clippings or other organic matter in reasonable amounts is beneficial to the lawn. It's all propaganda. They simply don't want to see the grass occupy valuble space in rapidly shrinking municiple landfills. Sure, reducing the need to haul clippings and the space they take is a benefit. But how does that make all the other benefits of clippings cited by an overwhelming number of credible authorities into propaganda? Also, if you have something that supports your claim that leaf removal is necessary to protect the health of trees in the yard, I'd like to see that too. -----------------http://imfc.cfl.scf.rncan.gc.ca/maladie-disease-eng.asp?geID=29 Maple leaf spot The fungus creates small brown spots on the leaves and, in severe infections, when most of the foliage is affected, the leaves may be shed prematurely. Growing leaves are infected in the spring and initially develop yellowish-green spots. The leaves eventually die and turn a brownish colour. Black fruiting bodies of the fungus develop in the infected spots around the end of autumn. The spores produced by these fruiting bodies over winter in the leaf litter and cause new infections the following spring. As with many foliar fungal diseases, cool, wet spring weather greatly favours the spread of the disease. To protect ornamental trees, the leaves of affected trees should be carefully collected and destroyed by burning or composting. ------------------- That is just one example of a tree disease that is promoted and propagated year-after-year by not raking, bagging or otherwise removing leaf litter in the fall. It doesn't say what you claim, which is that in general leaf removal is necessary for healthy trees and that if you in situ mulch them it will cause problems. It says if you have this particular disease, then you should remove the leaves. It's like the Dr. telling you if you have a sprained ankle, to keep it immobile. Do you think that translates into being immobile is a good and necessary practice in general? See also http://georgegosselin.com/nstsl/program_description.htm ------------------ ... plant disease pathogens form three groups: *fungi, bacteria, and viruses. *Of the three the majority are fungi. *These pathogens exist virtually everywhere, but those causing plant diseases are found primarily in the soil and plant debris such as mulch and leaf litter. You can help to reduce diseases in you landscape by simply removing old mulch. leaf litter, etc at the end of the season (mid November - December) and leaving the soil naked over the winter months. ------------------ Cool, so now we're supposed to remove mulch over the winter? Now that's pretty laughable. You do that too? I don't know anyone who has ever done that and by observation, I've never seen it done. All the landscape beds around here are mulched year round. And also the mulch helps protect plants over any extreme cold temps. And I'd point out that this is just some random guy's opinion, with an amateur website. Why would you think some random hack has any qualifications to give advice? |
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