User Bp wrote:
In alt.home.lawn.garden Guv Bob
wrote:

How's a good way to break up hard soil? Since it's all level, my
first thought is to soak it good for a couple of days. I wonder if
renting an aerator might also be good.

If your soil is like mine, there's a very narrow range of moisure
levels at which it's workable. I understand local farmers refer to it
as "36 hour soil", which is the schedule window for plowing.

Too wet and it's like warm tar, too dry and it's extremely hard. In
the middle, it's rather crumbly. I'd soak a patch and poke it each
day after. _Maybe_ you'll find a day when it's workable.

HTH,

bob prohaska

Hereabouts this is called "Sunday soil", too wet to work on Saturday and too
dry by Monday. The problem with working it on Sunday is that it will always
stay the same, you haven't addressed the problem of why it is so hard on
Monday.

D

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message ...
User Bp wrote:
In alt.home.lawn.garden Guv Bob
wrote:

How's a good way to break up hard soil? Since it's all level, my
first thought is to soak it good for a couple of days. I wonder if
renting an aerator might also be good.

If your soil is like mine, there's a very narrow range of moisure
levels at which it's workable. I understand local farmers refer to it
as "36 hour soil", which is the schedule window for plowing.

Too wet and it's like warm tar, too dry and it's extremely hard. In
the middle, it's rather crumbly. I'd soak a patch and poke it each
day after. _Maybe_ you'll find a day when it's workable.

HTH,

bob prohaska

Hereabouts this is called "Sunday soil", too wet to work on Saturday and too
dry by Monday. The problem with working it on Sunday is that it will always
stay the same, you haven't addressed the problem of why it is so hard on
Monday.

Appreciate all the good info. For breaking up the soil, what about adding a weak solution of detergent as a wetting agent in one of these hose attachments?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/21065376?w...546436&veh=sem

Guv Bob wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
User Bp wrote:
In alt.home.lawn.garden Guv Bob
wrote:

How's a good way to break up hard soil? Since it's all level, my
first thought is to soak it good for a couple of days. I wonder
if renting an aerator might also be good.

If your soil is like mine, there's a very narrow range of moisure
levels at which it's workable. I understand local farmers refer to
it as "36 hour soil", which is the schedule window for plowing.

Too wet and it's like warm tar, too dry and it's extremely hard. In
the middle, it's rather crumbly. I'd soak a patch and poke it each
day after. _Maybe_ you'll find a day when it's workable.

HTH,

bob prohaska

Hereabouts this is called "Sunday soil", too wet to work on Saturday
and too dry by Monday. The problem with working it on Sunday is
that it will always stay the same, you haven't addressed the problem
of why it is so hard on Monday.

Appreciate all the good info. For breaking up the soil, what about
adding a weak solution of detergent as a wetting agent in one of
these hose attachments?


If that is all you do it will not achieve much. Yes you do need to wet the
soil but then you need to alter the texture and enable to hold a good amount
of water by itself in future.

Gypsum and other clay breakers cause the clay to clump rather than stay
plastic. Organic matter lightens and loosens and allows organisms from
algae and bacteria up to worms and arthropods to live in it and assist.
Good soil is living soil not a bunch of minerals. You are aiming in the
long run for a good balance of particle size and particle type. If you
don't address the issues of the soils composition, texture and balance then
all the watering and physical breaking are just temporary measures. Good
soil neither needs nor benefits from frequent major cultivation although
that may speed up the improvement process at the start, doing it without
cultivation at all is quite possible but takes longer.

D

On 6/28/2014 12:22 AM, Guv Bob wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message ...
User Bp wrote:
In alt.home.lawn.garden Guv Bob
wrote:

How's a good way to break up hard soil? Since it's all level, my
first thought is to soak it good for a couple of days. I wonder if
renting an aerator might also be good.

If your soil is like mine, there's a very narrow range of moisure
levels at which it's workable. I understand local farmers refer to it
as "36 hour soil", which is the schedule window for plowing.

Too wet and it's like warm tar, too dry and it's extremely hard. In
the middle, it's rather crumbly. I'd soak a patch and poke it each
day after. _Maybe_ you'll find a day when it's workable.

HTH,

bob prohaska

Hereabouts this is called "Sunday soil", too wet to work on Saturday and too
dry by Monday. The problem with working it on Sunday is that it will always
stay the same, you haven't addressed the problem of why it is so hard on
Monday.


Appreciate all the good info. For breaking up the soil, what about
adding a weak solution of detergent as a wetting agent in one of
these hose attachments?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/21065376?w...546436&veh=sem



When you sprinkle just a small amount of water, does it soak in or bead
up? If it beads up, then yes you need a wetting agent. However,
detergent or soap are alkaline, which can further harden the soil
structure; so make it very weak. Use it on the gypsum. Trying to wet
the soil before applying gypsum will merely waste water.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

"David E. Ross" wrote in message ...
On 6/28/2014 12:22 AM, Guv Bob wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message ...
User Bp wrote:
In alt.home.lawn.garden Guv Bob
wrote:

How's a good way to break up hard soil? Since it's all level, my
first thought is to soak it good for a couple of days. I wonder if
renting an aerator might also be good.

If your soil is like mine, there's a very narrow range of moisure
levels at which it's workable. I understand local farmers refer to it
as "36 hour soil", which is the schedule window for plowing.

Too wet and it's like warm tar, too dry and it's extremely hard. In
the middle, it's rather crumbly. I'd soak a patch and poke it each
day after. _Maybe_ you'll find a day when it's workable.

HTH,

bob prohaska

Hereabouts this is called "Sunday soil", too wet to work on Saturday and too
dry by Monday. The problem with working it on Sunday is that it will always
stay the same, you haven't addressed the problem of why it is so hard on
Monday.


Appreciate all the good info. For breaking up the soil, what about
adding a weak solution of detergent as a wetting agent in one of
these hose attachments?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/21065376?w...546436&veh=sem



When you sprinkle just a small amount of water, does it soak in or bead
up? If it beads up, then yes you need a wetting agent. However,
detergent or soap are alkaline, which can further harden the soil
structure; so make it very weak. Use it on the gypsum. Trying to wet
the soil before applying gypsum will merely waste water.

I have been soaking the yard once a month for about 30 minutes. Mostly it stays on the surface but soaks in after an hour or so.

On 6/30/2014 2:50 AM, Guv Bob wrote:
"David E. Ross" wrote in message ...
On 6/28/2014 12:22 AM, Guv Bob wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message ...
User Bp wrote:
In alt.home.lawn.garden Guv Bob
wrote:

How's a good way to break up hard soil? Since it's all level, my
first thought is to soak it good for a couple of days. I wonder if
renting an aerator might also be good.

If your soil is like mine, there's a very narrow range of moisure
levels at which it's workable. I understand local farmers refer to it
as "36 hour soil", which is the schedule window for plowing.

Too wet and it's like warm tar, too dry and it's extremely hard. In
the middle, it's rather crumbly. I'd soak a patch and poke it each
day after. _Maybe_ you'll find a day when it's workable.

HTH,

bob prohaska

Hereabouts this is called "Sunday soil", too wet to work on Saturday and too
dry by Monday. The problem with working it on Sunday is that it will always
stay the same, you haven't addressed the problem of why it is so hard on
Monday.


Appreciate all the good info. For breaking up the soil, what about
adding a weak solution of detergent as a wetting agent in one of
these hose attachments?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/21065376?w...546436&veh=sem



When you sprinkle just a small amount of water, does it soak in or bead
up? If it beads up, then yes you need a wetting agent. However,
detergent or soap are alkaline, which can further harden the soil
structure; so make it very weak. Use it on the gypsum. Trying to wet
the soil before applying gypsum will merely waste water.

I have been soaking the yard once a month for about 30 minutes. Mostly it stays on the surface but soaks in after an hour or so.


Then use a minor amount of liquid soap or detergent in the water AFTER
you apply gypsum. A 30 minute soak right now is excessive. It can
result in wasteful runoff.

A 30 minute soak right after applying gypsum will wash away the gypsum.
The initial wetting down should be less than a 5 minute sprinkle, just
enough to make the gypsum damp. The next day, a 5-10 minute sprinkle
will start the gypsum dissolving; do not sprinkle long enough to puddle
or start rinsing the gypsum away. (Sprinkling instead of flooding will
hasten the dissolving of the gypsum because of the force of the water
landing on it.) Then every third day, repeat the dissolving sprinkle.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

"David E. Ross" wrote in message ...
On 6/30/2014 2:50 AM, Guv Bob wrote:
"David E. Ross" wrote in message ...
On 6/28/2014 12:22 AM, Guv Bob wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message ...
User Bp wrote:
In alt.home.lawn.garden Guv Bob
wrote:

How's a good way to break up hard soil? Since it's all level, my
first thought is to soak it good for a couple of days. I wonder if
renting an aerator might also be good.

If your soil is like mine, there's a very narrow range of moisure
levels at which it's workable. I understand local farmers refer to it
as "36 hour soil", which is the schedule window for plowing.

Too wet and it's like warm tar, too dry and it's extremely hard. In
the middle, it's rather crumbly. I'd soak a patch and poke it each
day after. _Maybe_ you'll find a day when it's workable.

HTH,

bob prohaska

Hereabouts this is called "Sunday soil", too wet to work on Saturday and too
dry by Monday. The problem with working it on Sunday is that it will always
stay the same, you haven't addressed the problem of why it is so hard on
Monday.


Appreciate all the good info. For breaking up the soil, what about
adding a weak solution of detergent as a wetting agent in one of
these hose attachments?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/21065376?w...546436&veh=sem



When you sprinkle just a small amount of water, does it soak in or bead
up? If it beads up, then yes you need a wetting agent. However,
detergent or soap are alkaline, which can further harden the soil
structure; so make it very weak. Use it on the gypsum. Trying to wet
the soil before applying gypsum will merely waste water.

I have been soaking the yard once a month for about 30 minutes. Mostly it stays on the surface but soaks in after an hour or so.


Then use a minor amount of liquid soap or detergent in the water AFTER
you apply gypsum. A 30 minute soak right now is excessive. It can
result in wasteful runoff.

A 30 minute soak right after applying gypsum will wash away the gypsum.
The initial wetting down should be less than a 5 minute sprinkle, just
enough to make the gypsum damp. The next day, a 5-10 minute sprinkle
will start the gypsum dissolving; do not sprinkle long enough to puddle
or start rinsing the gypsum away. (Sprinkling instead of flooding will
hasten the dissolving of the gypsum because of the force of the water
landing on it.) Then every third day, repeat the dissolving sprinkle.


Thanks. To be clear, When I said soaking for 30 minutes, it does not run off. The yard is level and all of it soaks into the ground.