With the recent flood of posts about orchid smuggling and CITES it got
me wondering. Is anyone on RGO involved with orchid conservation or
involved with groups/societies that actively work to conserve orchid
populations? If so what and how? I know most of you grow exotics and
orchid conservation in other countries is often harder to make a
difference with. Are there any "native" growers in the group and if
so do your attitudes to differ from your exotic growing buddies?

Where I'm coming from: I belong to a local Australasian Native Orchid
Society group. The group has a very strong conservation ethic and
thanks to the hard work of a few members the society has become a major
player in conservation efforts in my state. While I applaud their
efforts, my interest in orchids like most of yours is in cultivation
rather than enjoying them in situ. However, I still feel some
obligation with regard to responsible and ethical collecting which is
why I chose to become involved in an orchid distribution program that
my society runs. The aim of this program is to make legally obtained
plants readily available at a dirt cheap price so that it's not worth
the effort to illegally collect them from the wild thus removing the
pressure from our already stressed orchid habitats. It also produces
an ex situ pool should reintroduction be required. It's essentially the
cultivation arm of the society's conservation effort.

I was just wondering if there's anyone else who supports or takes
part in actually doing something for orchids in the wild (or even
cares). I know AOS supports conservations efforts but do you really
care about that or are you just a member for the books and the mag.
From reading this newsgroup and other forums it comes across that to
many people the height of their interest in orchid conservation
revolves around "rescuing" a half dead Phal hybrid from Lowes. :-)
.......... :-(

Sorry, if this post comes across as being cynical of the motives behind
exotic growers. I'm also not pointing the finger at any specific people
who have commented on the CITES debate. I'm just curious if anyone
cares or is "Rape and Pillage" still acceptable in this day and age.

Andrew wrote:
With the recent flood of posts about orchid smuggling and CITES it got
me wondering. Is anyone on RGO involved with orchid conservation or
involved with groups/societies that actively work to conserve orchid
populations? If so what and how? I know most of you grow exotics and
orchid conservation in other countries is often harder to make a
difference with. Are there any "native" growers in the group and if
so do your attitudes to differ from your exotic growing buddies?

Where I'm coming from: I belong to a local Australasian Native Orchid
Society group. The group has a very strong conservation ethic and
thanks to the hard work of a few members the society has become a major
player in conservation efforts in my state. While I applaud their
efforts, my interest in orchids like most of yours is in cultivation
rather than enjoying them in situ. However, I still feel some
obligation with regard to responsible and ethical collecting which is
why I chose to become involved in an orchid distribution program that
my society runs. The aim of this program is to make legally obtained
plants readily available at a dirt cheap price so that it's not worth
the effort to illegally collect them from the wild thus removing the
pressure from our already stressed orchid habitats. It also produces
an ex situ pool should reintroduction be required. It's essentially the
cultivation arm of the society's conservation effort.

I was just wondering if there's anyone else who supports or takes
part in actually doing something for orchids in the wild (or even
cares). I know AOS supports conservations efforts but do you really
care about that or are you just a member for the books and the mag.
From reading this newsgroup and other forums it comes across that to
many people the height of their interest in orchid conservation
revolves around "rescuing" a half dead Phal hybrid from Lowes. :-)
......... :-(

Sorry, if this post comes across as being cynical of the motives behind
exotic growers. I'm also not pointing the finger at any specific people
who have commented on the CITES debate. I'm just curious if anyone
cares or is "Rape and Pillage" still acceptable in this day and age.


You need to get in contact with Tony Watkinson of the Perth area
society. Their newsletters can be seen he
http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Eemntee/page17.html

We did a feature of his society's orchid rescue at our education page
OrchidSafari in which ew have several articles on conservation led by
Marilyn Light the North American regional head of eeh Orchid Specilaist
Group. You'll have to scroll to find Tony's chat.
http://www.geocities.com/brassia.geo/OSTA.html

To ditto what Tennis said earlier, most folks are involved with
conservation in one way or another.

K Barrett

Is there any group like that in the US
On that activily protects, collects endagered orchids and brings them
into production?

Jack

Andrew,

Each of us is very concerned about orchid conservation in one's own way.
Self-pollinating species that are allowable and distribution of
those hundreds (and sometimes thousands of plants) can help to
perpetuate the species. The hurricanes in Florida have only taught us
that native plants, if one were to rely on growing such plants only in a
solo locality, would surely endanger the species. Therefore, per CITES
agreements and laws, orchid enthusiasts should do what can be done
(WITHIN THE LAW) to perpetuate the species -- in other words, SPREAD THE
WEALTH!

You mentioned that "Rape and Pillage" still are acceptable in this day
and age." This is the case for other than orchids. However, genuine
orchid enthusiasts might adhere to the convention of the preservation of
the species. A love for orchids should assist everyone in adhering to a
code of ethics and not performing "Rape and Pilage" or importing orchids
on the CITES list.

Perhaps, in the future it may be plausible to produce seed-grown and
clones to drive away the black market in the species that are much
sought-after. Money is surely the driving force in other sought-after
goods and services, and I don't think that orchids are exempt.

These are just (perhaps rambling) thoughts. Feel free to agree or disagree.

.. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://home.earthlink.net/~profpam/page3.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






Andrew wrote:
With the recent flood of posts about orchid smuggling and CITES it got
me wondering. Is anyone on RGO involved with orchid conservation or
involved with groups/societies that actively work to conserve orchid
populations? If so what and how? I know most of you grow exotics and
orchid conservation in other countries is often harder to make a
difference with. Are there any "native" growers in the group and if
so do your attitudes to differ from your exotic growing buddies?

Where I'm coming from: I belong to a local Australasian Native Orchid
Society group. The group has a very strong conservation ethic and
thanks to the hard work of a few members the society has become a major
player in conservation efforts in my state. While I applaud their
efforts, my interest in orchids like most of yours is in cultivation
rather than enjoying them in situ. However, I still feel some
obligation with regard to responsible and ethical collecting which is
why I chose to become involved in an orchid distribution program that
my society runs. The aim of this program is to make legally obtained
plants readily available at a dirt cheap price so that it's not worth
the effort to illegally collect them from the wild thus removing the
pressure from our already stressed orchid habitats. It also produces
an ex situ pool should reintroduction be required. It's essentially the
cultivation arm of the society's conservation effort.

I was just wondering if there's anyone else who supports or takes
part in actually doing something for orchids in the wild (or even
cares). I know AOS supports conservations efforts but do you really
care about that or are you just a member for the books and the mag.
From reading this newsgroup and other forums it comes across that to
many people the height of their interest in orchid conservation
revolves around "rescuing" a half dead Phal hybrid from Lowes. :-)
......... :-(

Sorry, if this post comes across as being cynical of the motives behind
exotic growers. I'm also not pointing the finger at any specific people
who have commented on the CITES debate. I'm just curious if anyone
cares or is "Rape and Pillage" still acceptable in this day and age.

"Jack" ) queried thusly:

Is there any group like that in the US
On that activily protects, collects endangered orchids and brings them
into production?

Depends upon what "endangered" means. All orchids are at least
CITES II, but that doesn't mean we're in a tizzy over Cattleya aurantiaca
being extirpated, now does it?

The Orchid Seedbank brings several new species each year into
cultivation. I don't make a big deal about it, and they get sold off at
reasonable prices. All plants are propagated from seed, and we have some
plants available for sale that are either extinct in the wild, or well on
their way. Some plants are not commercially available as wild-collected
specimens due to geopolitical instability. Some are unavailable because
they are difficult to grow, or not particularly attractive. Some people
just don't care about because they want one to flower SOON 'coz they saw
one at the society meeting they just HAVE to have one because the world
might end in the 5-10 years it takes to get one from seed.

Really it's just not that big of a deal. Some collector knows some
guy who wants weird stuff, so he sells it to him- it gets imported,
flowers out, gets pollinated, and the seeds are sent over to some lab.
Then the propagules are panned out at some extortionate price because
either:

1) It's a new species
2) It's not a new species, but the seller THINKS it is because
there's an extra wart on the lip or something
3) Wild-collected plants are too big or cost an arm and a leg
(Phal. gigantea, Bulbo. phalaenopsis)

or

4) It's illegal as sin so EVERYONE wants one, although nobody will
admit to having one

What a whole lot of fun that must be- a plant only you can look
at. And then we get panned in the press for being neurotic, rich, stuffy
orchid growers. Imagine the indignity!

So, yes- there's a short list of domestic growers that do that
sort of thing. Troy Meyers at Meyers Conservatory, the Orchid Seedbank (me
and hundreds of really nice donors), a handful of growers and the labs
they work with, and then a short list of particularly knowledgeable and
skilled professionals who probably don't want to be named.

But they know who they are.

The address in the header doesn't work. Send no email there.

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

When I said,"Self-pollinating species that are allowable and
distribution of those hundreds (and sometimes thousands of plants) can
help to perpetuate the species. The hurricanes in Florida have only
taught us that native plants, if one were to rely on growing such plants
only in a solo locality, would surely endanger the species." I was
really thinking this:

If X is the sole habitat of Y, and Y is on the Endanagered list and
cannot be removed from X and no one has ever propagrated Y, and then X
is wiped-out by a Tsunami, Volcano, or even man-made devastation; thus,
what happens to Y?

.. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://home.earthlink.net/~profpam/page3.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron Hicks wrote:
"Jack" ) queried thusly:


Is there any group like that in the US
On that activily protects, collects endangered orchids and brings them
into production?


Depends upon what "endangered" means. All orchids are at least
CITES II, but that doesn't mean we're in a tizzy over Cattleya aurantiaca
being extirpated, now does it?

The Orchid Seedbank brings several new species each year into
cultivation. I don't make a big deal about it, and they get sold off at
reasonable prices. All plants are propagated from seed, and we have some
plants available for sale that are either extinct in the wild, or well on
their way. Some plants are not commercially available as wild-collected
specimens due to geopolitical instability. Some are unavailable because
they are difficult to grow, or not particularly attractive. Some people
just don't care about because they want one to flower SOON 'coz they saw
one at the society meeting they just HAVE to have one because the world
might end in the 5-10 years it takes to get one from seed.

Really it's just not that big of a deal. Some collector knows some
guy who wants weird stuff, so he sells it to him- it gets imported,
flowers out, gets pollinated, and the seeds are sent over to some lab.
Then the propagules are panned out at some extortionate price because
either:

1) It's a new species
2) It's not a new species, but the seller THINKS it is because
there's an extra wart on the lip or something
3) Wild-collected plants are too big or cost an arm and a leg
(Phal. gigantea, Bulbo. phalaenopsis)

or

4) It's illegal as sin so EVERYONE wants one, although nobody will
admit to having one

What a whole lot of fun that must be- a plant only you can look
at. And then we get panned in the press for being neurotic, rich, stuffy
orchid growers. Imagine the indignity!

So, yes- there's a short list of domestic growers that do that
sort of thing. Troy Meyers at Meyers Conservatory, the Orchid Seedbank (me
and hundreds of really nice donors), a handful of growers and the labs
they work with, and then a short list of particularly knowledgeable and
skilled professionals who probably don't want to be named.

But they know who they are.

The address in the header doesn't work. Send no email there.

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

I was spammed another message board, looked interesting so I checked it
out

One entire string was people who had no orchids bitching about orchids
OR patting eachother on the back for not growing "those finniky things"

As for bringing endangered orchids into production within the laws,
those that are and are not appicatable

I emailed a Mr. David Coats at the UNsecritariate- Convention for
BioDiversity
another Convention ment to go along side CITES focased on the
sustainable use of the enviroment and protection of endagered species.

They have some very good ideas about how to save the world
also don't strike me as the usual "kill a human, save a tree" eco-nazi

the point he made was that there should be some sort of organization
that is willing to gather endagered plants such as those that are going
to be destroyed by urban development or logging, and that the fasted
way to stop wild plant havesting is to bring the species into mass
production and remove the pressure on the wild population.

I was wondering if there was any such organization.
I know that the United States Botanical Garden was the recipient of
Pap. Vietnamense
they started flasking mericlones from the seized plant, now you can buy
a plant for $20 from a number of reputable sellers.
If this was done with alot of the "hot" new orchids you would think
that the non-existent orchid smuggling would be just that.

As for Rape and Pillage, If a place is going to be destoyed ie.
logging or development, why not go in and take out what you can, how
you can, the "natural" enviroment is going bye bye.

Jack wrote:
...........
...................
............................
I know that the United States Botanical Garden was the recipient of
Pap. Vietnamense
they started flasking mericlones ..................


Paph mericlones? Not very likely. ... seedlings.

In article om,
says...
With the recent flood of posts about orchid smuggling and CITES it got
me wondering. Is anyone on RGO involved with orchid conservation or
involved with groups/societies that actively work to conserve orchid
populations? If so what and how? I know most of you grow exotics and
orchid conservation in other countries is often harder to make a
difference with. Are there any "native" growers in the group and if
so do your attitudes to differ from your exotic growing buddies?

Our orchid society, founded this year, donated 5000 EUR from the
proceeds of our show in February to the Rainforest of the Austrians
(http://www.regenwald.at/RGS/RWdOEE.html), a group dedicated to buying
up private property in the Piedras Blancas National Park (Costa Rica)and
donating it to the park service. That meant 5 ha, or 12.5 acres.

Our project from the proceeds of the next show will be to subsidize hay
farmers in the Alps around us to compensate for crop losses that ensue
from foregoing mowing and fertilizing on the meadows' edge near the
forest. Mowing and especially fertilizing are damaging to the ecosystem
that the native orchids grow in. I am talking about orchids such as
Cephalanthera, Ophrys, Limodorum and so on.

These are all small measures, but as a young club, it's the best we can
do at the moment besides educating the public.
--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html

Because you can get busted for doing so. Chances are, a hobbyist caught in
the act wouldn't get more than a warning -- unless the enforcement officer
happened to be having a really bad day ... A professional grower would get
in a lot more trouble.

Then there's the issue of what to do with them after you rescue them. Do
you have room to keep them all? If not, you need to sell, trade or give
some away -- and each person who gets one is another opportunity to get the
rescuer in trouble. There was a guy busted recently for selling
illegally-collected orchids on e-bay. Undoubtedly, some of those plants
came from protected reserves and he deserves to be punished for collecting
those. But I suspect (without real evidence) that some would more properly
be called rescues from areas about to be destroyed. The authorities don't
appear interested in distinguishing. Kenni

"Jack" wrote in message
oups.com...

SNIP

As for Rape and Pillage, If a place is going to be destoyed ie.
logging or development, why not go in and take out what you can, how
you can, the "natural" enviroment is going bye bye.

That was actually the point that I was making,

A professional grower should be able to get the proper paper work to go
collect orchids that are going to be destroyed, from what I have read
it would be up to the non-profit rescue center to arrange the paperwork
and certify the need and authorized group or individual to collect the
specimins,

The orchids would have to be sent to the rescue center, BUT the grower
sould be able to get some of the first progations WITH proper paperwork
documenting that the plants are legal

as for Pap. Vietnamense, I was going off an artical I read on the USBG
website.
I was wrong, it said Seedlings.

P.S.

If there isn't a system like I am thinking out there already

What would It take to make one

and as for where the plants go to, It would have to go to an US Fish
and Wildlife rescue center

Jack

I have heard of a couple of efforts to set something up, but have not heard
of any successes. I think the biggest problem is that if the plants have to
go to a gov't facility, they aren't likely to live long enough to be
propagated ... Kenni


"Jack" wrote in message
oups.com...
P.S.

If there isn't a system like I am thinking out there already

What would It take to make one

and as for where the plants go to, It would have to go to an US Fish
and Wildlife rescue center

Jack

On a recent trip to Costa Rica - home to 1500 known species of orchid, but
probably many thousands more - I came across an organization called
Orquideas del Bosque which produces native species in vitro from seed
precisely to diminish the pressure on the species due to illegal extraction.
I was able to buy four seedlings in vitro and legally take them back to
Canada because they were packaged with the appropriate phytosanitary
certificates. You may want to check out www.costaricanorchids.com for
details.
As for collecting in the wild, I too am opposed to it. However, when walking
in the various rain forests in the Central Cordilleras, I noticed that many
orchids had been brought down from their perches high in the canopy during
storms - the bromeliads are full of water and generally overweight the
boughs on old growth trees and bring them down, not to mention the
activities of the monkeys. Since a high-growing epiphyte cannot last for
very long in the dim light conditions of the forest floor, I think it is
legitimate to rescue those that are going to die anyway. I came across many
beautiful species of oncidium, pleurothallis, epidendrum, miltonia, etc.,
all of which were doomed. Although tempted, I did not try to bring any back
with me because I don't want to get into the CITEs black book. Nonetheless,
there can be no harm, in my view, of collecting fallen epiphytes from the
forest floor.

"Andrew" wrote in message
ps.com...
With the recent flood of posts about orchid smuggling and CITES it got
me wondering. Is anyone on RGO involved with orchid conservation or
involved with groups/societies that actively work to conserve orchid
populations? If so what and how? I know most of you grow exotics and
orchid conservation in other countries is often harder to make a
difference with. Are there any "native" growers in the group and if
so do your attitudes to differ from your exotic growing buddies?

Where I'm coming from: I belong to a local Australasian Native Orchid
Society group. The group has a very strong conservation ethic and
thanks to the hard work of a few members the society has become a major
player in conservation efforts in my state. While I applaud their
efforts, my interest in orchids like most of yours is in cultivation
rather than enjoying them in situ. However, I still feel some
obligation with regard to responsible and ethical collecting which is
why I chose to become involved in an orchid distribution program that
my society runs. The aim of this program is to make legally obtained
plants readily available at a dirt cheap price so that it's not worth
the effort to illegally collect them from the wild thus removing the
pressure from our already stressed orchid habitats. It also produces
an ex situ pool should reintroduction be required. It's essentially the
cultivation arm of the society's conservation effort.

I was just wondering if there's anyone else who supports or takes
part in actually doing something for orchids in the wild (or even
cares). I know AOS supports conservations efforts but do you really
care about that or are you just a member for the books and the mag.
From reading this newsgroup and other forums it comes across that to
many people the height of their interest in orchid conservation
revolves around "rescuing" a half dead Phal hybrid from Lowes. :-)
......... :-(

Sorry, if this post comes across as being cynical of the motives behind
exotic growers. I'm also not pointing the finger at any specific people
who have commented on the CITES debate. I'm just curious if anyone
cares or is "Rape and Pillage" still acceptable in this day and age.

Just like alot of america, Bitch but don't do anything
I'm going to email fish and game and see If they have any Ideas about
what can be done
I seems stupid (but then most things having to do with politics do)
that there is no "captive" breeding program.

will let you know that F&G says

jack