Al wrote:
I know the US has laws against the collection, ownership and sale of native
species. How many Americans own native orchids? Or make them a central
part of their orchid collections? How many foreigners have our native
orchids in their collections? I believe buying native American orchids here
in this country is rather hard. Everyone is concerned that they are not
wild collected. Yet there are a few vendors of native orchids and their
catalogs are pretty sparse compared with the number of native orchids I know
of. Why look outside your own borders for 'treasures"?


Be careful of comparing apples with oranges. The majority of orchid
growers cultivate tropical species, and the majority of North American
orchids are hardy species. Of the tropical species native to the U.S.
(mostly in Florida), the more spectacular species have indeed been
over-collected and require protection. Reading a field guide to
Florida orchids is rather depressing in that respect -- even more so
when you consider that most of the over-collected species are already
available in cultivation. Some of the less spectacular orchids are
still fairly common, but the number of growers who would want to devote
a greenhouse to things like Epidendrum magnoliae is smaller than the
number who want to grow Cattleya hybrids. Therefore, fewer nurseries
sell Epi magnoliae.

With regard to the hardy North American species, I do not think they
are under-represented in cultivation relative to hardy species from
Europe and Asia. North American Cypripediums are more readily
available that Asian Cyps. The smaller woodland orchids are less
common in cultivation, but North American, European, and Asian species
seem to be available in cultivation in roughly equal proportions. Some
North American species (e.g. Spiranthes odorata) are readily available
in general garden centers.

AFAIK, federal laws cover only endangered species. Individual states
may have laws forbidding collection on public land, but most permit
collection on private land _with the permission of the landowner_. I
don't know of any laws that forbid the ownership of all native species;
I "own" a number of native orchids by default, because they are wild
in my backyard. My state (NC) does regulate the private ownership of a
very few species that are endangered within the state, but permits are
available (at no cost, I think). States may forbid selling collected
plants, but they don't seem to limit the sale of artificially
propagated native species. For instance, it is very easy to find
artificially propagated Encyclia tampensis for sale. Collecting E.
tampensis from areas being developed may be fun, but since E. tampensis
is well established in cultivation, it is of limited conservation
value. The state of Florida may have determined that allowing the
salvage and sale of such plants could make it more difficult to detect
real poachers.

regards,

Nick

That was informative.

As I was typing I was aware of the apples and oranges comparison. The
tropical natives didn't even come to mind, however.

While I am shopping for plants in Malasiaian markets and I come across
mature plants of Paphiopedilum
gigantifolium known only to grow in river gorges in the Sulawesi, Indonesia
(a different country but a shared common island) and only recently described
in 1997 what should I do?

This plant, BTW, is (or was) being listed as available from flask in one US
nursery online catalog, along with CITES permits if requested.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Al wrote:
I know the US has laws against the collection, ownership and sale of
native
species. How many Americans own native orchids? Or make them a central
part of their orchid collections? How many foreigners have our native
orchids in their collections? I believe buying native American orchids
here
in this country is rather hard. Everyone is concerned that they are not
wild collected. Yet there are a few vendors of native orchids and their
catalogs are pretty sparse compared with the number of native orchids I
know
of. Why look outside your own borders for 'treasures"?


Be careful of comparing apples with oranges. The majority of orchid
growers cultivate tropical species, and the majority of North American
orchids are hardy species. Of the tropical species native to the U.S.
(mostly in Florida), the more spectacular species have indeed been
over-collected and require protection. Reading a field guide to
Florida orchids is rather depressing in that respect -- even more so
when you consider that most of the over-collected species are already
available in cultivation. Some of the less spectacular orchids are
still fairly common, but the number of growers who would want to devote
a greenhouse to things like Epidendrum magnoliae is smaller than the
number who want to grow Cattleya hybrids. Therefore, fewer nurseries
sell Epi magnoliae.

With regard to the hardy North American species, I do not think they
are under-represented in cultivation relative to hardy species from
Europe and Asia. North American Cypripediums are more readily
available that Asian Cyps. The smaller woodland orchids are less
common in cultivation, but North American, European, and Asian species
seem to be available in cultivation in roughly equal proportions. Some
North American species (e.g. Spiranthes odorata) are readily available
in general garden centers.

AFAIK, federal laws cover only endangered species. Individual states
may have laws forbidding collection on public land, but most permit
collection on private land _with the permission of the landowner_. I
don't know of any laws that forbid the ownership of all native species;
I "own" a number of native orchids by default, because they are wild
in my backyard. My state (NC) does regulate the private ownership of a
very few species that are endangered within the state, but permits are
available (at no cost, I think). States may forbid selling collected
plants, but they don't seem to limit the sale of artificially
propagated native species. For instance, it is very easy to find
artificially propagated Encyclia tampensis for sale. Collecting E.
tampensis from areas being developed may be fun, but since E. tampensis
is well established in cultivation, it is of limited conservation
value. The state of Florida may have determined that allowing the
salvage and sale of such plants could make it more difficult to detect
real poachers.

regards,

Nick

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:27:44 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

C'mon Mick. It IS "awards show" time.

"Golden Globes"


Now I don't know who won the 'outrageous' contest. Ray it is not nice
to challenge Mick.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php

Al wrote:
While I am shopping for plants in Malasiaian markets and I come across
mature plants of Paphiopedilum
gigantifolium known only to grow in river gorges in the Sulawesi, Indonesia
(a different country but a shared common island) and only recently described
in 1997 what should I do?

This plant, BTW, is (or was) being listed as available from flask in one US
nursery online catalog, along with CITES permits if requested.


In my opinion? That's an easy one. Go home and buy a flask or
seedling from that nursery, if you are inclined to grow the species.
Since the flasks are already available, buying the plant in the market
can't be justified on the grounds of conservation. If you buy the
plant, you encourage the merchant to buy more collected plants. That
encourages the smugglers to rip more out of the wild in Sulawesi. Even
if that particular plant ends up as compost, you do less harm by
refusing to buy it.

If the plant were legally collected in a sustainable manner, the
ethical calculus would be somewhat different. I'm thinking of that guy
in "Orchid Fever" who collects Cyps in Minnesota. There, you would
have to decide whether you agreed with the collectors or with the
people who want to replant the cyps in the wild, but ethical people
could probably come down on either side of the question. That doesn't
seem to be happening with the tropical slippers, though.

Awww Mommy,

Ray is always leading me into trouble and mind-melding outrageous thoughts
down my way into Florida. He should get the spanking... not me. But just
in case I do get to pick... well then yes, I would like some golden globes
over the pods.

Mick

==========================

"Susan Erickson" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 08:27:44 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

C'mon Mick. It IS "awards show" time.

"Golden Globes"


Now I don't know who won the 'outrageous' contest. Ray it is not nice
to challenge Mick.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php