"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
.. .
Hmm. Every criminal on earth will have these.

Diana

Having worked as a locksmith for a good many years I don't recall of a
single break-in that involved picking a lock. Stolen keys - yes. Most
break-ins involve breaking something, hence the name. Locks only keep honest
people honest.

Mark

On 2006-11-30 16:10:10 -0500, "Mark_OK" said:


"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
.. .
Hmm. Every criminal on earth will have these.

Diana

Having worked as a locksmith for a good many years I don't recall of a
single break-in that involved picking a lock. Stolen keys - yes. Most
break-ins involve breaking something, hence the name. Locks only keep
honest people honest.

Mark

That is correct. I did locksmithing myself for a few years. Bump keys
are a fad and ae hard to usse than they make it look.

"Johnny Borborigmi" wrote in message
news:2006113020210637709%growl@tummycom...
On 2006-11-30 16:10:10 -0500, "Mark_OK" said:


"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
.. .
Hmm. Every criminal on earth will have these.

Diana

Having worked as a locksmith for a good many years I don't recall of a
single break-in that involved picking a lock. Stolen keys - yes. Most
break-ins involve breaking something, hence the name. Locks only keep
honest people honest.

Mark

That is correct. I did locksmithing myself for a few years. Bump keys are
a fad and ae hard to usse than they make it look.


Thank goodness!

K Barrett

Hey, Mark. Glad to see there's another locksmith in the group. I
worked my way through college as a locksmith; I don't do it every day, but
I do keep on top of it.

Anyway- what Mark said. Most theft and break-ins are functions of
opportunity. It's easier to break a window next to a door and open it on
up- good reason to use double-cylinder deadbolts, although there are
safety risks if you do so. Tip: Keep a key on a hook at floor level near
the door, or at least keep a key in the lock in the event of fire.

Theft involving direct manipulation of a lock- picking or bumping-
is very rare indeed. Some locks- like Kwiksets- are easy enough to bypass
without bump keys. Have a Kwikset key-in-knob lock? A pair of vice grips
and a machine screw will do it- pop the cup and directly manipulate the
mechanism with a screwdriver. Cinch.

People want a cheap lock on the door, and they get what they pay
for. The $18 piece of pot metal won't do the same job as a $160 Medeco.
Even then, unless the strike is done correctly- anchored into a wall stud
with the 3" screws each lock comes with- it's still easy enough to kick it
in. Lots of houses just have the strike put in place without the anchor
screws thanks to lazy or cheap builders. It all looks the same once it's
finished.

Bump keys are just an extension of a long history of bypassing
locks the easy way. Maybe Mark'll remember the "ice pick" attacks from the
early 1990's when some genius figured out you could directly manipulate
the latch after piercing the door- bypassing $300 locksets almost as fast
as you could with the key. That's why all modern latches (the good ones,
anyway) come with integral shrouds.

The address in the header doesn't work. Send no email there.

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

I remember one time going to visit friends who lived in a secure highrise
that had a guard at the front desk and a door that required a key at the
back. We had never been there before, and so by mistake found ourselves at
the back door which was locked and noone there to open it. We thought we
would need to go around to the front, and it was a really large building
complex, so it would have taken us a while and we were reluctant to do so,
when we saw a teenager coming by. To this day, I do not know whether he
actually lived there and had a key and just wanted to show off, or whatnot.
He asked us whether we had a credit card or something like it, and when we
handed it to him, he opened the door to this "secure" highrise as quickly
and efficiently as if he had had a key (and he gave us back our card, so no,
this was not an ingenious scheme of steeling a credit card :-)

Joanna

"Aaron Hicks" wrote in message
...

Hey, Mark. Glad to see there's another locksmith in the group. I
worked my way through college as a locksmith; I don't do it every day, but
I do keep on top of it.

Anyway- what Mark said. Most theft and break-ins are functions of
opportunity. It's easier to break a window next to a door and open it on
up- good reason to use double-cylinder deadbolts, although there are
safety risks if you do so. Tip: Keep a key on a hook at floor level near
the door, or at least keep a key in the lock in the event of fire.

Theft involving direct manipulation of a lock- picking or bumping-
is very rare indeed. Some locks- like Kwiksets- are easy enough to bypass
without bump keys. Have a Kwikset key-in-knob lock? A pair of vice grips
and a machine screw will do it- pop the cup and directly manipulate the
mechanism with a screwdriver. Cinch.

People want a cheap lock on the door, and they get what they pay
for. The $18 piece of pot metal won't do the same job as a $160 Medeco.
Even then, unless the strike is done correctly- anchored into a wall stud
with the 3" screws each lock comes with- it's still easy enough to kick it
in. Lots of houses just have the strike put in place without the anchor
screws thanks to lazy or cheap builders. It all looks the same once it's
finished.

Bump keys are just an extension of a long history of bypassing
locks the easy way. Maybe Mark'll remember the "ice pick" attacks from the
early 1990's when some genius figured out you could directly manipulate
the latch after piercing the door- bypassing $300 locksets almost as fast
as you could with the key. That's why all modern latches (the good ones,
anyway) come with integral shrouds.

The address in the header doesn't work. Send no email there.

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 14:53:31 GMT in Lrgch.1771$QC.1691@trnddc02 J Fortuna wrote:
I remember one time going to visit friends who lived in a secure highrise
that had a guard at the front desk and a door that required a key at the
back. We had never been there before, and so by mistake found ourselves at
the back door which was locked and noone there to open it. We thought we
would need to go around to the front, and it was a really large building
complex, so it would have taken us a while and we were reluctant to do so,
when we saw a teenager coming by. To this day, I do not know whether he
actually lived there and had a key and just wanted to show off, or whatnot.
He asked us whether we had a credit card or something like it, and when we
handed it to him, he opened the door to this "secure" highrise as quickly
and efficiently as if he had had a key (and he gave us back our card, so no,
this was not an ingenious scheme of steeling a credit card :-)

Yeah, had the same sort of thing at one employer. The manager responsible for
badge access to the datacenter was moved to someone that wasn't a very
responsive individual. We discovered that our ID badges worked just fine
to jimmy the lock to the datacenter.

The toughest lock I ever encountered was to the bathroom off of the cubicle
area of a largely vacant building. The previous folks there were polite
enough to lock the doors before they left and before the summer was out the
water had evaporated out of the traps. We finally popped two ceiling tiles
and dropped in to unlock it :-).
--
Chris Dukes
elfick willg: you can't use dell to beat people, it wouldn't stand up
to the strain... much like attacking a tank with a wiffle bat

On 2006-11-30 16:10:10 -0500, "Mark_OK" said:


"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
.. .
Hmm. Every criminal on earth will have these.

Diana

Having worked as a locksmith for a good many years I don't recall of a
single break-in that involved picking a lock. Stolen keys - yes. Most
break-ins involve breaking something, hence the name. Locks only keep
honest people honest.

Mark


Agreed. Absolutely correct. Remember, these morons (burgulars) don't
want to be seen or heard. Robbers on the other hand don't give a damn.
Breaks in are called that for a reason.

"Johnny Borborigmi" wrote in message
news:2006120219314064440%growl@tummycom...
On 2006-11-30 16:10:10 -0500, "Mark_OK" said:


"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
.. .
Hmm. Every criminal on earth will have these.

Diana

Having worked as a locksmith for a good many years I don't recall of a
single break-in that involved picking a lock. Stolen keys - yes. Most
break-ins involve breaking something, hence the name. Locks only keep
honest people honest.

Mark


Agreed. Absolutely correct. Remember, these morons (burgulars) don't want
to be seen or heard. Robbers on the other hand don't give a damn. Breaks
in are called that for a reason.

OK, don't laugh. My house was broken into a couple of days ago.

The fellow kicked the door in.

The cops caught him about 15 minutes later. (Priceless!)

I now have to buy a new front door. I also have to get a crash course in
home security.

Does anyone have suggestions about a good way to do that? Do cops offer
(free unbiased) advice?

Please answer off list so we can stay on topic. What I'm afraid of is
getting sold a bill of goods because I'm a naive idiot who can be had.

K Barrett
A fool and his money were lucky to get together in the first place.

K Barrett wrote:
"Johnny Borborigmi" wrote in message
news:2006120219314064440%growl@tummycom...
On 2006-11-30 16:10:10 -0500, "Mark_OK" said:

"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
.. .
Hmm. Every criminal on earth will have these.

Diana
Having worked as a locksmith for a good many years I don't recall of a
single break-in that involved picking a lock. Stolen keys - yes. Most
break-ins involve breaking something, hence the name. Locks only keep
honest people honest.

Mark

Agreed. Absolutely correct. Remember, these morons (burgulars) don't want
to be seen or heard. Robbers on the other hand don't give a damn. Breaks
in are called that for a reason.

OK, don't laugh. My house was broken into a couple of days ago.

The fellow kicked the door in.

The cops caught him about 15 minutes later. (Priceless!)

I now have to buy a new front door. I also have to get a crash course in
home security.

Does anyone have suggestions about a good way to do that? Do cops offer
(free unbiased) advice?

Please answer off list so we can stay on topic. What I'm afraid of is
getting sold a bill of goods because I'm a naive idiot who can be had.

K Barrett
A fool and his money were lucky to get together in the first place.


Oh, Kath! Everything okay otherwise??

Reka

"Reka" wrote in message
news
Oh, Kath! Everything okay otherwise??

Reka

Yes, everything's OK. Thanks for asking, Reka. Joe was home when the idiot
tried kicking in the door. Joe got a description/ car/ and license, so the
cops had an easy time of it. It was rather freaky for Joe, though.
Afterwards all the usual fears about 'what if'. [shudder].

K

That happened to me a couple of times, Kathy. It feels like you've been
personally violated. I was living alone (pre-Frank days) and the house was
kind of isolated up on a hill, back from the road. Nothing behind but a
steep drop into woods and a little marsh land.

I got home with my dog in the car at around 11 PM. The dog went nuts as we
got close to the kitchen door. I opened the door and the first thing I saw
was a bottle of beer on the kitchen counter. I don't drink beer, but there
had been some in the fridge.

I rushed the dog back into the car and took off like a bat out of hell,
heading for the police station. That was before we all carried cell phones.
The assholes had broken down the front door and then broke sliders at the
back of the house to get out, and it was pretty clear that I'd surprised
them because of what they *didn't* take.

Shudder. I'm glad you are okay, and I hope you get good security advice.

Diana
"K Barrett" wrote in message
...
"Reka" wrote in message
news
Oh, Kath! Everything okay otherwise??

Reka

Yes, everything's OK. Thanks for asking, Reka. Joe was home when the
idiot tried kicking in the door. Joe got a description/ car/ and license,
so the cops had an easy time of it. It was rather freaky for Joe, though.
Afterwards all the usual fears about 'what if'. [shudder].

K

Diana Kulaga wrote:

Shudder. I'm glad you are okay, and I hope you get good security advice.

Diana

Turns out the police department will come over and give advice.
Especially if you've been a victim. So I'm happy about that.

What ever happened with your collection? Ever get a handle on what
wrecked them? Are they pulling out of it (nah, its too soon for that)
but maybe they've stabilized?

K