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Old 31-10-2008, 04:12 PM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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tenman wrote:

Follow this:
Toolsaccount settingsadd new accountnewsgroup accountfill in the
blanks and enter 121.208.41.84 for the server name. That should do it.

Steve


Steve-

Thanks for your instructions. I ended up with exactly the same result as
in Sea Monkey. Nothing. However, this morning, upon reflection, it
seemed the icon in the file column to the left of my message window
looked more like a folder than a newsgroup name. So as it was displaying
the plain 'Newsgroups' page in said message window, I read through the
lines there though I have seen but not used them before. One was a
'manage newsgroup subscriptions' setting which I then used - it opened a
box where I found - lo and behold - a heading for'orchids' which, when
opened, gave me the option of subscribing.

You're not a cook, are you, Steve? I'm trying to be positive here, but
since that's not my normal nature it comes out sounding sour like me.
But you WERE helpful. But to someone like me who is terribly precise in
such things, the left out last three steps, if in a recipe, would have
changed a souffle to a hockey puck or a lovely sauce to a lumpy, broken
mess.

Just joking here, Steve!

Though I am long experienced with computers and the internet, it's
sometimes surprising to be reminded just how much I DON'T know. I've
always used the file heading at the top of my screen for controlling my
programs and hadn't really noticed there was a 'page' for it.

Moral of story: just like a good cook who inadvertently leaves out a
step or two which are so intuitive to them, we all often do this in
areas with which we are intimately familiar and in attempting to avoid
that are often brought to a new understanding of our own knowledge and
the processes involved by a careful, minute examination and re-enactment
of the actions involved.

Can you tell I just got up??


:-)

Well, you're right. I wasn't as complete as I thought I was. I've seen
you around the 2 older orchid newsgroups for so long, it never occurred
to me to remind you that you have to subscribe to the desired groups
once you get the server into your mail/news reader program.
Can you tell I was up way past my bed time when I wrote the
instructions?? :-)

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Old 31-10-2008, 06:16 PM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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Question:

Since the new group seems to be a newsgroup just like the others, how
does that help those of you whose ISPs no longer carry newsgroups?
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Old 31-10-2008, 09:52 PM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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"tenman" wrote in message
...
Question:

Since the new group seems to be a newsgroup just like the others, how does
that help those of you whose ISPs no longer carry newsgroups?


I'm sure someone more knowlegeable than me will give you the real answer but
the way I look at this is that Usenet is a whole n'other internet than the
WWW. There are several internets, there's the World Wide Web, Usenet, and
ergh.. "others" left over from when the defense department & various
universities created the internet. That's why most URLs state "www."

Now, AFAIK ISPs really only have to provide access to www. Or maybe I
should say that they are taking the attitude that they do not have to
provide access to other internets. Especially since pornographers took over
teh Usenet binaries heirarchy. ISPs used to allow free access to companies
like Giganews etc. who in turn provided access to Usenet. ISPs like Comcast
dropped their business relationship with Giganews, making us have to find
other providers of Usenet access. Like subscribing to Giganews directly or
making Kye set up a server. I suppose Comcast feels that their hands are
clean of pornographic taint becasue they no longer have a business
relationship with a Usenet provider. We've already seen that many Usenet
providers will not carry the pornographic binaries hierarchies
(alt.binaries) They'll only carry text (rec. alt. etc) Pictures take up a
lot of computer space. Whether this means the end of Usenet etc will remain
to be seen.

Like I said this is very rudimentary. I hope this answers your question.

K Barrett


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Old 31-10-2008, 11:32 PM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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tenman wrote:
Question:

Since the new group seems to be a newsgroup just like the others, how
does that help those of you whose ISPs no longer carry newsgroups?



In a nut shell, when an ISP stops carrying newsgroups, it only means
they stop providing a news server. It doesn't mean they won't let you
find someone else's news server.
Until recently, ISPs either provided their own server or they had some
arrangement with someone like Giganews.

Steve
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Old 03-11-2008, 07:19 PM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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On Fri, 31 Oct 2008 14:52:48 -0700 in K Barrett wrote:
"tenman" wrote in message
...
Question:

Since the new group seems to be a newsgroup just like the others, how does
that help those of you whose ISPs no longer carry newsgroups?


I'm sure someone more knowlegeable than me will give you the real answer but
the way I look at this is that Usenet is a whole n'other internet than the
WWW. There are several internets, there's the World Wide Web, Usenet, and
ergh.. "others" left over from when the defense department & various
universities created the internet. That's why most URLs state "www."


USENET is a store and forward forum oriented messaging network.
For the bulk of its life it was distributed via UUCP, but is
currently distributed via a connection oriented protocol (Like a
phone call) on the Internet.

Now, AFAIK ISPs really only have to provide access to www. Or maybe I
should say that they are taking the attitude that they do not have to
provide access to other internets. Especially since pornographers took over
teh Usenet binaries heirarchy. ISPs used to allow free access to companies
like Giganews etc. who in turn provided access to Usenet. ISPs like Comcast
dropped their business relationship with Giganews, making us have to find
other providers of Usenet access. Like subscribing to Giganews directly or
making Kye set up a server. I suppose Comcast feels that their hands are
clean of pornographic taint becasue they no longer have a business
relationship with a Usenet provider. We've already seen that many Usenet
providers will not carry the pornographic binaries hierarchies
(alt.binaries) They'll only carry text (rec. alt. etc) Pictures take up a
lot of computer space. Whether this means the end of Usenet etc will remain
to be seen.


ISPs keep wandering all over the place.

I pay my ISP to have unhindered connectivity to the bulk of the
IPv4 address space through the major IPv4 protocols. If they don't
want common carrier status yanked, they'll provide that.
You want that as well because otherwise they can block your
ability to access your employer's VPN, or to make use of
various bits of content that you think are part of the web, but aren't.

I pay my colo provider to allow the bulk of the IPv4 address space
access to two IPv4 protocols with maybe 3 application specific
implementations.

Initially ISPs provided local NNTP servers for USENET and
home page space for HTTP/web because local connectivity was
cheaper than long haul connectivity and it allowed them to
aggregate access locally.

As the never-ending September wore on, the clue of the average
ISP customer was reduced to only consuming that which is trendy
and accessable from a web browser. Providing headcount for
USENET and Home page administration became a losing proposition
as fewer users continued to make use of the service.

Toss in a "For the children" plea from an elected lawyer, and
voila instant opportunity to reduce operating costs.

As for the continuance of USENET. I have no clue.
I'm increasingly convinced that western society is
wandering into the realm of post-literate.

There have been folks dedicated to keeping the text part of USENET
alive since various ISPs started outsourcing their NNTP servers.
However, I don't know how well that will survive as an actual sense
of community is needed and that involves occasionally meeting folks
face to face and actually being able to read part of the other
person's mental state from facial and body cues.
Unfortunately, the current generation of western youth are
rapidly on the road of being less clueful on such cues than I am.

Like I said this is very rudimentary. I hope this answers your question.

K Barrett




--
Chris Dukes
RON PAUL: Pretty lady screw Mitt lifeless. Ronpaul SMASH!!
KUCINICH: GAZEBO!
-- http://somehedgehog.livejournal.com/245807.html


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